Independent 8,445 / Tees

by

The Thursday slot is shared by a range of compilers, so you never quite know who you will be doing battle with. Today’s slot is occupied by Tees, whose work I haven’t blogged since June.

I found this one quite tough, especially on account of its rather esoteric theme of “food groups”, i.e. bands whose names contain something edible. I wonder how Tees even spotted this theme in the first place. Even once I had cracked the theme, the puzzle didn’t just fall into place, since most of the entries were unfamiliar to me and had to be worked out from the wordplay. You were up against it with this one if you were not a music buff, since you are unlikely to think e.g. 23/2 a plausible answer unless you know the group already. I did, however, manage to arrive at all the themed entries with the help of the wordplay alone, using Google only to confirm at the end.

Interestingly, there are a number of entries today where, in additon to the wordplay, the definition is in itself somewhat cryptic in nature, e.g. 14, 18D. The intersecting entries at 5 and 14 were the last in – why do I never think of Leonardo on his own, without the da Vini?! I have two parsings that I am not sure of at 4 and 24, and would be glad to hear how other solvers interpreted the wordplay. My favourite clue today is 3, since I knew the group and could solve it with confidence, and because of its misleading use of butter(=ram) in a clue mentioning a food group.

*(…) indicates an anagram; definitions are italicised; // separates definitions in double-definition clues

Across    
     
09 MARMALADE Mother and son into horse as food group?

[MA (=mother) + LAD (=son)] in MARE (=mare); the food groups here and throughout the puzzle are names of pop groups that are or contain something edible; Marmalade was a Scottish pop rock group, originally formed in 1961 as The Gaylords
     
11 HENNA Hot girl comes back for hair-dye

H (=hot) + ENNA (ANNE=girl; “back” indicates reversal)
     
12/10 TANGERINE DREAM Starter from Giosia in exotic Mediterranean food group?

G<iosia> (“starter from” means first letter only) in *(MEDITERRANEAN); “exotic” is anagram indicator; Tangerine Dream is a German electronic music group founded in 1967
     
13 ROSEATE Routine as check on ocean with pink hue

SEA (=ocean) in ROTE (=routine, as in learn by rote); cf. roseate tern
     
14 RIBCAGE Composer with band requires an organ case

RIB (=band, i.e. ridge) on CAGE (=composer, i.e. US composer John Cage); cryptically, a ribcage is an organ cage
     
16 ELENA Boy in river finds girl

LEN (=boy) in EA (=river)
     
18 TWO Duo in ancient wood

Hidden (“in”) “ancienT WOod”
     
19 AGING Getting on the ruinous drink when into metal

GIN (=ruinous drink, i.e. mother’s ruin) in AG (=metal, i.e. Ag=silver)
     
21 TREPANS Parents splitting apart makes hole

*(PARENTS); “splitting apart” is anagram indicator
     
22 SICK PAY This for the poorly remunerated?

Cryptic definition: people who are poorly (=ill) receive sick pay
     
24 ESTIMATOR Drugs rumour binds mum to job pricer

[MA (=mum) + TO] in [E (=drugs) + STIR (=rumour, i.e. commotion, fuss)]
     
26 ATE IN Went to restaurant? Not where energy’s provided in a can!

E (=energy) in [A + TIN (=can)]
     
27 ASIAN Like Scotsman from some eastern locale?

AS (=like) + IAN (=Scotsman)
     
28 BLUEGRASS Low blow from such Kentuckian musos?

BLUE (=low, i.e. down) + GRASS (=blow, i.e. inform on); bluegrass is a simple style of country music from Kentucky, the Bluegrass State
     
Down    
     
01 AMPHORAE Map confused seasonal goddesses in ancient vessels

*(MAP) + HORAE (=seasonal goddesses, i.e. goddesses of the seasons in mythology); “confused” is anagram indicator
     
03 BANANARAMA Fool with butter and what that says about food group?

[NANA (=fool) + RAM (= “butter”, i.e. animal that butts)] in BAA (=what that says, i.e. noise made by ram); Bananarama is an all-female English pop group, formed in 1982
     
04 CASTLE Move // home

Double definition: (to) move is a reference to chess
     
05 LEONARDO Artist on the up managed act with lion

LEO (=lion) + NAR (RAN=managed; “on the up” indicates vertical reversal) + DO (=act); the reference is to Italian artist Leonardo da Vinci
     
06 IDLE Vain // daughters in French island // loiter aimlessly

3-way clue: double definition – vain (e.g. of chat) and loiter aimlessly; D (=daughters) in ?LE (=French island, i.e. the French for island)
     
07 TERIYAKI Basted and broiled, battered ark yet berths one and one

[I (=one) in *(ARK YET)] + I (=one); “battered” is anagram indicator; teriyaki is a term in Japanese cookery, meaning marinated and grilled or boiled
     
08 AMPERE Current value given by a Frenchman – dad in Paris

A + M (=Frenchman, i.e. abbreviation of monsieur) + PÈRE (=dad in Paris, i.e. the French for dad); the “current value” refers to electric current
     
15 BLANCMANGE Chef Raymond with beastly disease in food group?

BLANC (=Chef Raymond, i.e. French restaurateur and TV chef Raymond Blanc) + MANGE (=beastly disease, i.e. of animals); Blancmange is a 1980s English synthpop band
     
17/2 ELECTRIC PRUNES Choose to charge via crazy prices in food group?

ELECT (=choose) + [RUN (=charge, i.e. attack) in *(PRICES)]; “crazy” is anagram indicator; Electric Prunes is a 1960s American rock band
     
18 TEST TUBE Trial by TV in scientific birthplace

TEST (=trial) + TUBE (=TV); cryptically, a test tube is a scientific birthplace for a test-tube baby
     
20 GUYANESE South American goddess heard, then seen distraught

GAIA (=goddess of the Earth) + *(SEEN); “distraught” is anagram indicator
     
21 THE JAM Horse meat Jack prepared in food group?

H (=horse) + MEAT + J (=Jack, in cards); “prepared” is anagram indicator; The Jam is an English punk rock band, formed in 1972
     
23/22 PREFAB SPROUT Supporter excited about great food group?

FAB (=great) in *(SUPPORTER); “excited” is anagram indicator; Prefab Sprout is an English pop rock band, formed in 1978
     
25 MANX Celtic language makes us cross

MAN (=us, i.e. mankind) + X (=cross, i.e. pictorially)
     

25 comments on “Independent 8,445 / Tees”

  1. Nice one from Tees, once I’d guessed the theme via 12/10 – but I’d never heard of PREFAB SPROUT, and ELECTRIC PRUNES were only a vague shadow in my subconscious.

    Seeing L-I-T-A in the top row of unches I thought there might be a nina top and bottom that would help with 17/2 but, of course, no such luck.

    I liked the surface of 9ac with its gentle allusion to dodgy burgers, lasagnes, etc. 16ac was neat, too; I knew EA as a handy 2-letter word for Scrabble. But my CoD was RIBCAGE – after a wild goose chase for a composer possibly beginning ‘W’ (With) and ending ‘ON’ (OrgaN case), Walton not having enough letters.

    Thanks, Tees and RatkojaRiku

  2. The ‘food groups’ took me a while to ‘see’ for quite a while. Some of them I will admit to remembering but I am afraid the Electric Prunes didn’t feature in my musical play lists back in the day.

    Thanks to Tees for making me work and RR for the blog – I parsed both 4 and 24 as you did.

  3. Had less time than usual to do this one on the train, after taking ages to find it in the revamped DTV (yuk).
    X-word worth the wait though, the anagram at 12/10 providing the lightbulb moment. o yeah – food + group….
    Agree with your parsings of 4 & 24, RR
    Thanks

  5. I don’t normally manage to finish Tees, but perhaps being an older codger and remembering the Electric Prunes and Tangerine Dream has finally proved its worth!!
    Thoroughly enjoyable thank you Tees

  6. Boom! At last an Indy crossword I could finish in less than half an hour. The food groups was a fun idea, especially as I knew them all. Not really sure about sprouts being classed as food however. I agree with your parsing of 4, my home being my castle etc. plus 24 seems fine as you spell it out.
    Well done Tees and RR for the blog.

  7. Funnily I struggled with ATE IN for quite a while as ‘eat in’ is often used in restaurants as the alternative to ‘take away’ so meaning the exact opposite to what the clue suggests ie to eat in a restaurant rather than not. Light eventually dawned.

  8. Thanks, RR.

    I’m usually quite anal in crossword matters, religiously starting with the first across. But ‘chef Raymond’ caught my eye, BLANCMANGE went in, the theme opened up and off we went. This was a giggle – ELECTRIC PRUNES was the only one I hadn’t heard of.

    I think Rowly is on the right track with GRASS/BLOW. A drugs reference in a pop group themed puzzle is de rigueur, I fancy.

    Excellent puzzle, thank you to Tees.

  9. We think that, to make 24a work, you need to take e and stir together, not separately. e is just one drug, but e stir could be a rumour about drugs.

  10. The first of the themed clues I got was 15dn, from the word play, but as I’d never heard of the group that didn’t get me the theme. Fortunately I had heard of 12/10 and that helped get the rest, but I’m not a pop music fan. Fortunately, the only other group I’d not heard of was 17/2, and that was my last in. I guessed the first word, decided from the word play the second word must start with a ‘p’, so I typed it into google to see what came up.

    Prefab Sprout I remember hearing off and I remember my brother telling me their name was a mondegreen. Alas, I see from Wikipedia that that might not be the case. And I never even knew they came from Co. Durham, where I used to live.

    Couldn’t parse 24ac, but I see I spelt if wrong! And my father was one.

  11. Thanks Tees and RR, Electric prunes new on me but wordplay was fine and I agree with Roely (for once :-)) about the grass/blow/drugs link.

    New layout in DeadTreeLand makes the puzzle harder to find, but it’s readable and with any luck won’t be moved all over the shop by adverts for BT sports channels.

  12. Great fun. I may not be familiar with the work of all the food groups but I dredged up all the names without assistance. And I can now hear John Peel’s voice announcing a Prefab Sprout record, which is nice.

    Slightly surprised at the lack (so far) of the usual howls of protest from the classical buffs on here, but they’re probably still stuck on the puzzle.

  13. No, hounddog, no howls of protest from me. It was I think very good. I just gave up, never having heard of most of the groups, let alone being unfamiliar with their work (and also I had ENTRAPS at 21ac: if you make a hole for someone you entrap them…; well, it seemed a good idea at the time…). Thank goodness I wasn’t blogging today, although perhaps I’d have tried a bit harder.

    I thought the TEST TUBE was outstanding.

  14. Hounddog @12: As one of the classical buffs I see no need to howl in protest. The world of cryptic crosswords is wide enough to accommodate all sorts.

  15. An excellent puzzle that, for me at least, wasn’t a stroll. The first two of the themed answers I entered were MARMALADE and BLANCMANGE, but I didn’t associate them immediately with the bands of the same name and I was wondering how either could possibly be classed as a “food group”. It was only when I got PREFAB SPROUT that the penny dropped and all but one of the rest of the themed clues became write-ins, the exception being ELECTRIC PRUNES.

  16. Tangerine dream got me off and running unlike the prunes ahem, wil I can quite easily see that trap now but was lucky enough to have a crosser to stop that.

  17. I was half convinced that 21 ac was entraps but, having messed up too many puzzles in the past by writing in clues too quickly, I’m now more cautious. Of course, once I’d got 21 down, I got it immediately – I often find that once I’ve been forced to give up on an erroneous idea that has been dogging me for ages I get the right answer straight away.

    I enjoyed this puzzle, even though my knowledge of music is pretty limited. The second part of Electric Prunes was a struggle – it’s amazing how difficult I found it when I had three of the six letters and knew it was food related.

  18. Tees gave us some easy ones to get started (HENNA, IDLE, AMPERE, TWO, ASIAN, ATE IN) and luckily they were to be found all over the grid.
    The two in the NE were really helpful to find 10ac and then TANGERINE DREAM.
    Theme cracked.

    There was still some work to do but between these famous German prog-rockers and my last one in (18ac) there was a lot to enjoy.
    No Meat Loaf today nor Orange Juice or Bread.
    Instead, some of the better 80s bands like BLANCMANGE and Paddy McAloon’s PREFAB SPROUT (who just released a new album).
    And the ELECTRIC PRUNES – boy, that was a long time ago!
    Apart from 23/22, perhaps THE JAM (21d) was one of my favourites today (in a cryptic sense, I mean).

    For those who weren’t on Tees’ wavelength, he threw in some 28ac too … 🙂

    But now for something completely different.
    Tees is the only setter (I know) who uses D for ‘daughters’ (plural).
    On earlier occasions I have asked where I could a justification for that.
    Never got an answer – perhaps, today?

    Fine puzzle which I thoroughly enjoyed, so thanks to Tees.
    Also thanks to RR.

  19. Sil @18: without being able immediately to verify it I believe I’ve come across ‘d’ meaning daughter/s in biographical summaries, e.g. something like “… m [date] [spouse name], 1s, 2d …” indicating when and who the person in question married and how many children they had – in this example 1 son and 2 daughters.
    But I’d need to visit my local reference library to search for an actual example – I can’t find anything via Google.

  20. Many thanks all, esp Ratko for a Jolly Sooper blog.

    ENTRAPS is a possiblility I hadn’t spotted, but I for one wouldn’t have been happy with ‘makes hole’ as a definition for it. Saved by pedantry, which I knew would come in handy one day.

    Re the ‘food groups’, there are too many to fit into a grid, so I went with what I could squeeze in. FYI there was a conference in a public house with the delectable Mothers of Memphis (London’s favourite punk blues rockabilly country band apparently) and the ex bass-player of ReGenesis (a tribute band) about the various possibilities, and we decided that Prefab Sprout absolutely had to go in. So the original puzzle was binned and the one presented for your perusal was assembled in Tees’ Crossword Kitchen.

    Vanilla Fudge, anyone?

  21. Re daughters, you must be right there Allan. It’s on the Times list of single-letter indicators, as is the singular. To be fair to critics though, only ‘daughter’ appears in my Cillins and Chambers.

  22. We finished this rather late last night, and as we are blogging today’s Phi, didn’t have time to comment on this enjoyable Tees offering.

    We thought there were one or two rather weak clues, but the theme was original, and Bert surprised himself by realising that he had heard of all the ‘food groups’ included (although he couldn’t name a single one of their tracks!).

    Fortunately, Joyce solved ‘Marmalade’ early on, so the theme became clear (we were very worried about our lack of technical knowledge of all things edible!). Despite this, some of the groups were well disguised, and we found the puzzle an enjoyable challenge.

    Many thanks to Tees, and to RR for the blog – very useful for confirming the parsing of one or two answers!

  24. Am I the only pedant who doesn’t like to see American spelling (aging) in a British crossword?

    Other wise I enjoyed the parts I did manage to solve.

Comments are closed.