My first blog of an Otterden, somewhat delayed by a cancelled train…
Not too convinced by some of this, surfaces don’t seem as smooth as you’d expect, part Rufusian in many ways and I can’t really explain TERMINATOR so help would be appreciated. Definitions underlined as appropriate
Across
8 Matter thrown up at union conference — only half start talking it over (8)
CONFETTI
CONFE(rence) & T(alking) & IT rev
9 Going round to the club (6)
ROTARY
Double def
10 One expecting to hear broadcast (4)
HEIR
Sounds like AIR, broadcast.
11 He finishes off period at school in a history module (10)
TERMINATOR
TERM & IN A & TOR, ok lost here, it’s hidden in hisTORy but can’t really explain the last bit.
12 Loses control of fair elements (6)
STALLS
Double def
14 Gave up as fashion designer (8)
RESIGNED
[DESIGNER]* “fashioned”
15 Game and potato dish left unfinished (7)
CROQUET
CROQUET(te)
17 Act to get figure with a modicum of truth in it (7)
STATUTE
T(ruth) in STATUE
20 Driven mad by half-hearted performance getting cooker installed (8)
DERANGED
RANGE in DE(e)D
22 Princess has limits to awful temper (6)
ANNEAL
(Princess) ANNE & A(wfu)L
23 Sticks with wave power (5,5)
MAGIC WANDS
Cryptic def
24,24down It enables travellers to overtake on the left (8)
PASSPORT
PASS (overtake) & PORT (left)
25 Weather forecast could change by the end of the day (6)
CLOUDY
COULD* & (da)Y
26 Recollections Otterden takes a little while to state without evasiveness (8)
MEMORIES
ME (Ottenden) & MO (little time) & R(hode) I(sland) & E(vasivenes)S, without meaning outside here.
Down
1 Guide said a great deal about art (8)
LODESTAR
Sounds like LOADS & ART*
2 Core of expedition is a long way off (4)
AFAR
(s)AFAR(i)
3 The position of most of 17 ends up precarious (6)
STATUS
17 = STATUTE, so STATU(te) & (precariou)S
4 Copies editions of a tabloid newspaper (7)
MIRRORS
Mulitple Daily MIRROR
5 Model usually having points to teach class (5,3)
TRAIN SET
TRAIN teach SET class
6 Tidy up after shattering into pieces (10)
STRAIGHTEN
SHATTERING*
7 Poet gives small flower to sweetheart (6)
Rupert BROOKE
BROOK (small river) & the old chestnut swEet’s heart
13 Gabby to see dodgy doctor shortly to get recovery notes (10)
LOQUACIOUS
LO see & QUAC(k) & I.O.U.S
16 Side first means to follow advantage (8)
EDGEWAYS
EDGE advantage WAYS means
18 Ian treks out to part of the Eastern Cape (8)
TRANSKEI
[IAN TREKS]* here new one on me
19 A study starts off making assumptions for growth (7)
ADENOMA
A DEN study & starts of Off Making Assumptions
21 Return to island after directions make it possible (6)
ENABLE
EAST NORTH & ELBA rev
22 Take on an amount in rough sea (6)
ASSUME
SUM in SEA*
24 See 24 across
PASSPORT
see 24a
*anagram
Can’t help with 11ac I’m afraid, my thoughts same as yours. I really struggled with this at first and then, after a calming cigarette, it all went straight in and I was left wondering why I’d found it tricky. Rufusian indeed.
Thanks, flashling
I found this surprisingly difficult – probably hampered by the grid.
TERMINATOR is TERM IN A ‘TOR’ – the last three letters being a ‘module’ of the word ‘history’. Like ‘modicum of truth’ in 17a it uses a vague indicator for ‘part of a word’. Hmm.
I spent a long time trying to make 6d an anagram of ‘into pieces’. Nice misdirection.
A module is a part so I think it works to clue part of the word “history.” I expected fair elements to be some kind of rollercoaster or similar so took ages to see “stalls”.
In 11ac ‘module’ indicates part of ‘hisTORy’ and makes sense of the surface by suggesting part of a history course. It’s education jargon. Indicating bits at the beginning, end or in the middle of words can be contentious. This is stretching it. Or pushing the envelope?
That’s how I thought 11ac worked too. Not my favourite device, the ‘module’. Had to have heir checked for me too, with Seer waiting in the wings as an alternative.
Got off to a cracking start though, with CONFETTI, a very nice clue.
There’s lots more chopping here. Over a dozen instances. Five are dodgy, some might say unsound.
8 – start talking, for T
25 – end of the day, for Y
26 – without evasiveness, for ES
3 – ends up precarious, for S
19 – starts off making assumptions, for OMA.
Thank you, Flashling, and good morning everyone.
I rather enjoyed the majority of this, while being less keen on indicators like “a modicum of truth” for T etc.
I can’t quite see what “up” is doing in 3d. Most of STATU(te) is fine + end of precariou(S. Anyone advise?
I liked HEIR for the homophone of air but I suspect I’ve seen it before.
Thank you OTTERDEN.
Rhotician above, apologies – crossing.
Thanks otterden ahd flashling. I liked this and thought the ‘module’ trick worked well.
Was I the only one who confidently entered ‘Duchess’ as the game (and therefore Duchesse as the spuds)?
Thanks flashling. My reaction to this was v similar to Gervase’s @ 2.
Wasn’t too keen on 23ac. Favourite clues were 8ac for the definition, 6dn for the misdirection, and 25ac for the elegant surface.
Thanks Otterden, more to my taste than some of your previous Guardian puzzles.
Thanks flashling; module is given in Chambers as: ‘a self contained unit,’ so as TOR is a bona fide word, I think it is fine. If Paul had used this maybe he would have been applauded! 🙂
Rhotician @6; without sparking off the Ximenean wars, I think all your examples are fine except perhaps ‘without,’ which is normally a containment or deletion indicator. ‘First,’ ‘last,’ ‘ends of’ etc are so commonly used now that I think they are generally accepted in the crossword community, especially by the Libertarian wing.
I did like CONFETTI and TRAIN SET, and the clue for CLOUDY had a superb surface.
Thanks to flashling for the blog.
Like Gervase@2 I also tried (into pieces)* for 6d until I saw the proper way to do it.
Well done Otterden for the misdirection at 23: I spent a lot of time trying to make seaside electricity generators fit in here!
In retrospect it’s hard to see why, but like anio @1 and Gervase @2, I found parts of this a bit tricky, but still much easier than yesterday’s Arachne. Last in was LODESTAR, and I took some time to see STALLS too (I was thinking SPILLS as in “thrills and spills” but wasn’t convinced enough to write that in. I did like the MAGIC WANDS clue which wouldn’t have been out of place in a Rufus.
Thanks to Otterden and flashling
I had SLIDES for 12a until the crossers proved it to be wrong. I also tried WINDS, thinking of something like TRADE WINDS, for 23a.
Thanks flashing. I have been enjoying most of the recent puzzles but this one was not to my taste I am afraid. I was unable to crack the last 4 which hasn’t happened for a long time. I find that my favourite setters provide hooks or handholds such that the penny eventually drops but I could think about “loses control” and “fair elements” for a week and never come up with stalls. I also found myself entering answers in faint ink (5d, 10ac, 23ac) which I rarely do. But some clearly found it more to their taste so I am happy to wait for my turn to roll round again. Tomorrow, I hope.
I think 1d is sounds like LOADS plus ART ‘about’,that is anagrammatised.
Thanks Otterden and flashling
Not much at first try, but came back to it later and it all went in smoothly.
First thought for 14a was an anagram of “gave up as”. Slightly surprising (and satisfying) anagram, as was STRAIGHTEN = SHATTERING.
I particularly liked MAGIC WANDS.
William @7,
I read 3 as STAT (most of 17) + the front end of UP and the back end of PRECARIOUS, so two “ends”. I’ve never seen that tried before, but I can’t see why not. Maybe this a bit of a stretch.
William@7
Here’s 2 cents (if that) rather than advice:
IMO, the ‘up’ is a vital part of the surface which I understand, in order to be effective, has to camouflage the cryptic intent.
Firstly, the clue without ‘up’ would sound like an amateur clueing effort, and secondly there is a not too subtle difference between the verbs ‘end’ and ‘end up.’ Both have to do with reaching a destination, but the up implies continued existence, which is more appropriately applied to status than ceasing to exist.
‘End up’ makes the sentence sensible which supposedly make it harder to crack.
FWIW, I would also call ‘end of the day’ et al creative rahter than dodgy or pushing the envelope.
Thanks flashling and Otterden
I finished this all but 1d this morning and came back to it late afternoon. I then saw that ‘polestar’ would fit (it is normally two words of course) and could not parse it properly thinking only of the phrase ‘poles apart’. The correct answer is quite clear but inertia had unforunately set in.
Overall I was not greatly taken with the puzzle for some of the reasons already mentioned. However, I found some clues quite pleasing and ticked 8a, 12a, 23a, 5d and 16d.
Just got off a plane so apologies for the late arrival. 😉 Did this en route and found it quite hard: perhaps due to a lack of oxygen but more likely because this setter is rather good. I see Otterden as someone of massive potential that we should all be encouraging.
I found this puzzle more of a challenge than Otterden’s previous Guardian puzzles, and I agree that there were quite a few Rufusian clues. IMHO these include the crossing anagrams at 14ac and 6dn, the cryptic definitions at 23ac and 5dn, and the part-anagram at 25ac.
It took me a while to see how TERMINATOR works, but I don’t have a problem with it. LODESTAR was my LOI after STALLS. Count me as another who considered “polestar” for 1dn but I obviously couldn’t parse it and I came up with the correct answer after a bit more thought.
Took three times longer to complete this than yesterday’s Arachne mainly due to dodgy cluing!
Didn’t enjoy this at all!
RUFUS on acid ?
At least Otterden is proving to be unpredictable and is providing us with a range of puzzles. Some pretty good, others pretty awful.
Thanks to Flashling and Otterden.
Well i did think of module meaning part of but thought someone might have a better idea. Still I’m all for the setters trying something new.
Sorry if I came across a bit curt Otterden, I’d had a bad morning.
Thanks to Otterden and flashling. Glad to hear that stalwarts such as Gervase and NeilW found
found this puzzle difficult. I don’t feel as inadequate. Started yesterday at 4PM PST and
just now finished. Unlike anio@1 I opted for a calming ale. May have done the trick. Liked
CLOUDY. Like others I tried to anagram intopieces; didn’t work.
Cheers…
I did remark a year or so ago that clues using devices to extract letters from words in the surface seemed to be more frequent. They are now definitely a regular feature with many compilers. They’re fine when they involve a neat surface – such as at 25ac – but jar when they leave a contrived surface. Mind you, Otterden does display ingenuity in the variety of devices – no ‘initially’ or ‘originally’.
Otterden’s wavelength still work in progress for me.
Thanks to Flashling
I’ve done Otterden puzzles in The New Statesman for some time and think that he’s an underrated setter. He tries different approaches, and, inevitably some work better than others. For example, I enjoyed this puzzle more than the most recent one of his NS puzzles that I completed that involved a mixture of words and figures, but at least it was different, and I did manage to complete it, admittedly with some Google assistance for checking, which I prefer to avoid.
‘end of day’ for Y is fine. ‘end of the day’ is wrong.
‘start to talk’ for T is OK. ‘start talking’ is wrong.
etc
This is Otterden’s third puzzle for the Guardian and unlike his previous two (especially his underwhelming first) I liked this one. Mainly because of the lightness which felt just right for me, and for my PinC, in particular, too.
All this despite the fact that there were quite a few things in this puzzle that I wouldn’t have written like that.
The double 24 one, for example, nice idea but a half-baked definition and an uncomfortable use of “on”.
In 3d, “ends up precarious” for S – don’t know.
Not sure whether “as” in 14ac should be there.
And “starts off making assumptions” for OMF – not sure.
In 21d, “return to island” for a reversal of ELBA – “to”?^
And ES clued by “without evasiveness”, I can’t see how this has gone past the editor.
Maybe, I have become a nitpicker first-class.
Still, I quite enjoyed this puzzle.
I think 25ac (CLOUDY) was very good, as was 6d.
No problems with TOR in 11ac, actually I really liked it.
Last in was LODESTAR (1d) which had TAR clued by “about art”.
Perhaps that’s just the thing that sums up the cluing as a whole. In my opinion, it should be “art about”.
But as I said, I/we did enjoy this (and, %$#@!*& , even more than yesterday’s Arachne – oops).
So thanks to Otterden and the Great Flash alike!
SvdH@29:
“Guide said a great deal art about”?
I don’t think that would have gone down very well.
All things considered, I quite enjoyed this; just the one or two things which really jar that spoil it (‘end of the day’ for example). Loved ‘cloudy’ and ‘terminator’. Started bottom right and worked round anticlockwise, as it happened, apart from ‘lodestar’ which was last in, like several people it seems.
Sil @29
You must be a really forgiving chap! You pointed out endless errors in this crossword but still “liked” it. You must be or have been a teacher. 😉
My problem with Otterden is his inconsistency. I know Rufus is always sloppy so I expect it and can solve him quickly but with Otterden one is never certain whether to trust his cluing. Arachne was a breeze in comparison as I know she is tricky but fair.
By the way this is Otterden’s 4th for the Guardian.
Note to Editor: when I read the comments on my Android/Chrome tablet, the comment numbers don’t appear and I sometimes find myself scrolling back and counting to find the relevent item that someone has referred to. Is this problem fixable?
I quite liked the lumpiness of this, in the same way some (but not I) enjoy granary bread for a change: “is this a seed or a piece of grit?”
Anyway, all was chewed and swallowed.
Thanks Otterden.
Cheers all.
Hi Julia @32
Unfortunately the WPTouch plug-in, which converts the ‘desktop’ format to a version more suitable for mobile devices, does not support comment numbering. I raised this issue with the plug-in developers a couple of years or so ago and, from memory, the response I got was that they would consider adding comment numbering to a future software release but that it wasn’t a high priority. This is probably due to the fact that only a relatively small percentage of WordPress themes provide the facility of comment numbering.
I can only suggest that, when a comment number is referenced, you switch to ‘desktop’ view to read the comment and then revert back to ‘mobile’ view via the desktop/mobile option at the bottom of the page.
Thanks Gaufrid. You have solved my problem and now I also get the time the commments were posted. I hadn’t spotted the option at the bottom of the page!
As it’s a down clue, would ‘Guide said a great deal on abstract art’ be acceptable?
Brendan (NTO): yes, I am a teacher but that’s not the reason I am forgiveful.
Indeed, there were a lot of sloppy things that Otterden, an experienced setter, could have done better.
But it’s just as it can be with Gordius – the clueing is not perfect but the feel is perhaps right.
For us, today, that feel was right.
Which can be a reason to appreciate a crossword, I think.
(which was indeed Otterden’s fourth)
I see what you mean, Brendan (NTO) but I always try to be on the setter’s side.
That said, the setter in me wouldn’t have accepted some of the iffiness exposed today.
Still an enjoyable crossword.