Guardian 26,258 / Philistine

36 comments on “Guardian 26,258 / Philistine”

1. Thanks to Eileen and Philistine. This was perfect, meaning I got ’em all and understood ’em all.

2. Thanks Philistine and Eileen. In 9, 10 of course its only CIC not C IN C that is part of the charade – the answer to this became obvious and I never managed to parse it – somehow trying to fit in ‘Franco’ never worked!

3. Thanks Eileen and Philistine

   A very enjoyable puzzle after a couple of days where I had found it harder than usual to get on the setter’s wavelength.

   Many very good clues – I ticked 1a, 14a, 20a, 4d, 5d and 23d but it is a little arbitrary as Eileen says.

4. Thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

   I enjoyed the mega-anagrams in 4 and 5, not to mention the double anagram in 20.

   My only quibble is with 1a – Eileen makes the best of it, but I don’t think “what you might need” is an adequate definition. I thought at first we were looking for a homophone of “need”, but that was pre-empted by 19, so in my case the solution rested solely on the crossers.

5. Thanks for the blog Eileen. A great puzzle, as you say, but I agree with Mac Ruaraidh Ghais that 1ac doesn’t quite work: it seems to be only half a clue. The other problem is that A TISSUE is a strange thing to have as an answer. My theory is that it started off as the more reasonable AT ISSUE, and Philistine forgot or changed his mind about what he was clueing.

6. Agree with Mac Ruaraidh Ghais @4 about 1a – it doesn’t really seem to contain a definition. (It evoked a smile once I got it, though – especially because I am currently rhinitis-ridden!)

   Like ChrisS @2, I kept trying to work ‘Franco’ into 9,10, and thus didn’t fill it in even after getting the crosses. It took the linked clue at 17 to convince me that it was indeed CLASSICAL MUSIC, although I couldn’t parse it fully till I read Eileen’s blog.

   I seem to recall EXCLAMATION MARK appearing in an earlier Guardian puzzle – must check it out

   Thanks to Philistine for a great puzzle, and to Eileen for a great blog.

7. Good puzzle, I was lucky to get the long solutions quite quickly.

   Thanks Eileen; A TISSUE was my last one in and I can’t help feeling that there is not enough in the clue to lead to the answer – adding something like ‘when cold’ or some such would have helped.
   I assumed for a long time it was a piece of bread. 🙁

   I tried high SEASON for 13 until I got the ‘p’ from a crosser.

   I did like the ! and MYOPIA especially.

8. By the way, I meant to question the use of ‘on’ in 3. I thought that in an across clue ‘on’ could be read as on either end, although usually it is ‘after.’ On a down clue, I thought the convention was that ‘on’ meant on top of i.e. before. Is that right?

9. Thanks, Eileen. Excellent puzzle. It felt so much, though, as if there were a theme twinkling in the shadows… or a Nina… but no, I don’t think so.

   Still, the IMAGERY of that LACHRYMOSE NAMBY-PAMBY being such a SISSY listening to CLASSICAL MUSIC NEEDING A TISSUE [EXCLAMATION MARK] made me forgive the vagueness of 1ac. 😉

10. Thanks to Eileen for the blog.

    I was a bit puzzled by 16a equating BUD and blossom. The bud opens out to give the blossom.

11. I think Philistine has to be my favourite setter of the moment – this was delicious. Wavelength-wise, it could have been specifically written for me!

    The ‘charade piled on charade with a reverse sandwich and one more charade’ type clues are hilarious – as though he is just trying to see how far he can push before it all comes toppling down.

    I can see why he left the clue for 1 ac dangling in mid-air like that – it was probably too much of a temptation not to. And I think one of those per crossword is permissible, as it is just possible to solve it with all the crossers in.

    Really lovely crossword, and thanks Eileen.

12. Those like me should were puzzled by CIC may be interested in this: https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1952-54v05p2/terms

13. What a lovely crossword! I thought 12ac was sumptuous.

    Eileen, for what it’s worth – and probably not a lot – some of the Mozart piano concertos (eg K238 and K451) have movements marked Rondeau

14. Despite the same reservations about 1a, I enjoyed this challenging puzzle.

15. Eileen, please forgive my wittering on pedantically about rondeaux and not thanking you for the blog which was your customary tour de force.

16. Hi Robi @8 [I’ve been out for most of the day]

    Re ‘on’ in a down clue: I know there is discussion about this but I’ve always been happy with it either way. I took it here as meaning ‘added on to’, as in an across clue.

    Hi Jovis @15

    Thanks for that [and for the RONDEAU – I should have known that] because it gives me an opportunity to thank Gaufrid for helping me out in a crisis, yet again.

    I had the blog all ready to post but couldn’t get internet access this morning, so had to email it to Gaufrid for him to post. I’m very grateful to him, especially as it meant that he had to add the colour and underlining [and also sort out some typos, but that’s nothing new] and I was needing to rush out. Many thanks, Gaufrid. 😉

17. This must have looked dead impressive to the guy sitting next to me on the tube as I rattled in the right hand side in seven stops, till failure to work out what was going on with 4d brought me to a halt. Never mind, there was an immediate light bulb moment on the next trip, and what a good clue it was. Though perhaps Herr Marx, faced with the current economic climate, might be arguing for a rate a tad higher.

18. I’m also not happy with 1 across, but for a slightly different reason to some. ‘A tissue’ is not a phrase, and more than ‘a cat’ or ‘the tree’.

    Also in 2 down, how does ‘way’ work as an anagram indicator?

19. “Exclamation mark” appeared in the FT today with the clue “Apostle to shout first!”

20. Thanks all
    i think I commented about Philistine’s last effortthat it was still very enjoyable although showing slight signs of getting easier than his earlier ones.
    This was great to solve but still continued this trend- I hope it doesn’t go further.
    Most enjoyable and last in was 4d.
    3d is brilliant, especially ‘to end’ = ‘o’.

21. Thanks Eileen, another relatively easy philistine although 1a was my last in before the penny dropped.

22. Enjoyable as ever from Philistine. Mostly fairly straightforward but I tripped myself up by writing IN STOCK which meant that IMAGERY (my last in) took a lot longer than it should have. Liked EXCLAMATION MARK and LACHRYMOSE and agree with the quibblers on A TISSUE, though that one didn’t hold me up for long.

    Thanks to Eileen and Philistine

23. I agree with RCW@20 that this is the second straight Philistine puzzle that didn’t seem to be as tough as some of his earlier ones, but it was still a pleasant solve.

    1ac worked for me. I’ve lost count (metaphorically, as I never started counting) of the number of times over the years that my mum has asked me if I want “a tissue” if I happened to sneeze in her presence. PINKIES was my LOI after NAMBY-PAMBY.

24. Thanks Philistine and Eileen.
    Finished it in a hurry before going out this morning, so left several unparsed. I don’t think that I would ever have worked out the parsing for “classical music” though, so well done Eileen.
    Favourite was the brilliant hidden NAMBY-PAMBY.

25. 1ac I think the idea would have worked better if the word to be clued was actually “atishoo”.

    Was anyone else reminded of Owl’s advice on finding Eeyore’s tail? (“Issue a reward…….”)

26. Yes, Philistine has become one of the flagships of the Guardian.
    He also seem to appear more and more, perhaps to fill the almost unfillable gap Araucaria left behind.
    And I like his puzzles – thoughtful, adventurous cluing.

    But unlike most of you above I am not convinced that this was delightful.
    Philistine is sometimes drifting away in Araucarian waters where surfaces don’t matter. NAMPY-PAMPY might be cleverly hidden but we thought it was hidden in a completely nonsensical surface.
    And Eileen (many thanks for the immaculate blog & good to see you again this Saturday (I presume)), while you gushed about 4d we thought that – irrespective of the fact that this has been done before (even today in the FT) – the surface didn’t make sense. Yes, there’s the allusion but that’s it.
    And what does 20ac (FINGERNAIL) mean? Why a second anagram when it doesn’t add to a proper surface? My PinC mentioned the word ‘show-off’, although I wouldn’t go that far.
    She was also very annoyed by ‘bud’ being equal to ‘blossom’.
    I think she’s right and I agree with chas @10.

    On the positive side MYOPIA and TWIN BEDS, to name just two, were very nice.

    All in all, it was an enjoyable solve, don’t get me wrong.

    The main reason why I was slightly disappointed by today’s offering was the fact that Philistine seems to have joined the chorus for whom “to end” means O and “people lead” means P.
    Paul B would have stood up from his grave (of course, after his death, that is … 🙂 ).
    Last Saturday Tramp said: for me “second film’s” can never indicate I. “film’s second” would work.
    It’s in the same category.
    Also in 3d, “A on B” in a down clue usually means “A+B”, not here though.
    I know, from discussions in the past with, admitted, purists that some do not like container indicators in the past tense. They would have panned “welcomed” in 9,10.
    And to finish my minor criticism, I am also not happy with the apostrophe-s in 25ac. Using “soldiers” would have worked much better.

    These things do not make this a bad puzzle – it wasn’t! – but I think this crossword could have been a better one.

    Nevertheless, it gave us an hour of good entertainment.
    For which thanks to Philistine.

27. Great puzzle, solved in a serendipitous pub in Ripon.

    I agree that this was again a slightly easier Philistine than in the past but still a joy.

    I personally had no problems with any of the surfaces or clues.

    Thanks to Eileen and P

28. No problem for me with 1a – except that I failed to solve it.

    Thanks to Eileen & Philistine

29. OK, Brendan, fine that you have no problem with any of the surfaces today.
    But can you then please tell me what 20ac means?
    Or who Pam Bygraves is, that is if she is someone.
    And do you really think 4d has a good surface?
    It is just not a proper sentence.

30. 4d and 6d have good surfaces. 4d is about a revolutionary Karl Marx income tax (like the Tobin tax, but named after KM instead) and 6d is about a novel called Vietnam by a fictitious woman. Both are clear and genuinely funny surfaces. But 20a is indeed hard to make much sense of.

    Sil! Clues are often not sentences! Think of a clue – “pretty girl in crimson rose”? Not a sentence. 1a here? Not a sentence. Etc. Is that why you misunderstood 4d and 6d – you were trying to read them as sentences?

    I agreed with some of your other reservations though. I do like a smooth cryptic reading.

31. Hi Herb.
    OK, 6d reads as a good sentence.
    But it doesn’t mean anything which is a pity – but it’s acceptable as a crossword clue.
    The surface of 4d doesn’t mean anything either and is, IMHO, too contrived (with its 50% device) to be convincing.
    But let’s not make too much of a fuss.
    Some of today’s clues just didn’t match my view on crosswords.
    They could have been better.
    Perhaps, it is just that I can’t stand that a highly regarded setter like Philistine didn’t make the most of it today.

    That said, it was an enjoyable crossword.

32. @ 13d, open seas = international waters?

33. OK first time comment on this site but 47 years on since I completed my first Guardian crossword. I loved 1 across in my opinion clever. Finished it quickly. Thank you Eileen you are a star. Some of you need to loosen up and have fun isn’t that what it’s all about? May come back and discuss surfaces ninas anagrams etc but we’ll see.

34. @31
    As I said, neither 4d nor 6d are sentences but both make sense. I can’t see your point. As you make other valid criticisms it is unfortunate to make 2 complaints that are so insubstantial. 4d, to repeat, is about a revolutionary tax, the Karl Marx 50% income tax – a tax set at 50% and named after Trier’s most famous son. I don’t know how to make it plainer! Not the most elegant phrase (NOT sentence) I grant you, and not the best surface you’ll ever see, but perfectly comprehensible English. I’ve tried to make sense of your assertion that 6d is good English but doesn’t mean anything. Do you mean it’s not true? It certainly has a referent, just as “unconvincing remark in comment 31″ does. I think you must be misusing ” mean” but I can’t be sure what your intention is there. A complaint that a clue refers to something fictional would be odd. Look at all Philistine’s other clues – you think they’re true?!

    Sorry but I don’t think there’s any common ground on this – I think you’re quite wrong.

35. OK, Herb, I surrender when it comes to 4d and, to a lesser extent, 6d (with apologies to Philistine, too).
    I also mixed up sentence, phrase, surface.

    6d can mean something if Vietnam is a book and Pam Bygraves is a writer, isn’t it?
    See, I like a bit of name-dropping in a surface but I am not particularly fond of clues in which there is name-dropping of non-existing persons or things.
    I also think italicising Vietnam would have made a difference to me.

    I am happy with 4d now, you convinced me.
    End of story, I hope?
    [don’t want to blow up my quibbles and make it into something huge – I am still on this very good setter’s side 🙂 ]

36. Very late! Thought would be interesting to have a look at some qualifying puzzles for some competition elsewhere. Sign of the times….?
    Thus catching up; joy of joy, several pristine crosswords are beckoning tonight.
    The first was this Philestine. Not tough – a Tuesday puzzle. But so lovely. Clues like 1ac demonstrate the setter as human artist in our world of crossword art. Else would the strictly Ximenean construction (potentially susceptible to machine algorithm unlike the iconoclastic clues) limit the crossword’s evolution and thwart the creative artistry of our revered setters of whom Philestine is assuredly one?!
    Other clues which, for me, stood markedly taller even than their giant companions were 12ac, 4dn and 6dn (wonderful). Top stuff, O Philistine!
    And I noted (without surprise) Eileen’s typically superb blog!!
    And greetings to ezzie…..;-)

Comments are closed.