Guardian 26,369 / Boatman

69 comments on “Guardian 26,369 / Boatman”

1. Thanks Boatman and Eileen
   27 the wizard is GANDALF, minus ALF (little chap). IC is almost universally accepted as wrong, though.
   tbc!

2. Thanks, muffin – I thought it might be you. 😉

3. I liked 23d – the simple capital letter for Mars was so distracting!

   However I don’t think NAVIGATE works, as “navvy” is actually short for “navigator”, used for early workers on canals or “navigations”.

   Thanks Boatman too.

4. Thanks Eileen and Boatman. This came out fairly easily but we too had problems with parsing. However I think that in 14d DUTY is DUSTY = outdated without the S (direction).

5. 27a – It’s Gandalf, with Alf (little chap) leaving around the still-with-us IC for 99
   14d – “outdated” is dusty, with the s taken out

6. Oops – bit of a waste of everyone’s time there. Sorry for the cross-posting.

7. I’ll take that as a compliment, Eileen 🙂

   Full parsing: MA (master) GAND(alf) aroung IC (99!) W(ith)

8. Thanks, ChrisS @4: I was on the wrong track there.

   And thanks, Herb – you were only just beaten to it!

   Muffin – it was meant that way!
   I know what you mean about NAVIGATE but they are two different [though obviously connected] meanings of ‘navigator’ – and ‘navvy gait’ did make me smile.

9. Thanks Boatman for a nice challenge and Eileen for a good blog.

   Could the ‘outdated’ in 14 be ‘dusty;’ pointless then gives duty?

   I can’t see what’s wrong with navvy, it’s generally used for labourers on building sites, roads etc. I, too, liked that one. 🙂

   I liked the little chap with his MAGIC WAND.

10. Crossed with Herb @5.

11. Sorry ChrisS @4!

12. Thanks, Eileen – good to see everyone up and in full control of their mental powers after last night’s excitement …

    In 5, using “Child” as an indicator for “titch” is expecting a high degree of tolerance, I know. You may be amused to hear that my first clue was “Tiny little chap is a pain”. Apart from being mildly offensive to persons of diminutive stature, the need to convert “tiny” to “small” before abbreviating to “S” rightly bothered Hugh, and he suggested trying “Sunday” instead. The pull of “Sunday’s child” was too powerful to ignore – and (considering the surface reading) you can work out for yourself which day of the week I was born on! I can picture Mrs B nodding as I write this …

13. Very enjoyable. For me the easiest puzzle of the week, which is rather surprising for a Boatman and a Friday to boot. Hoping for a nice cheeky Paul for the prize tomorrow.

14. For Titch, see http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/885190.Titch

15. [I did a bit of poking around on the internet about Roman numerals. Apparently there is a “rule” that, in a subtractive construction, the letter “subtracting” must be at least 1/10 the value of the following letter. Hence XC is OK for 90, and “current usage” would give XCIX for 99; whereas IC is wrong.

    I haven’t been able to find out how old this “rule” is, but it seems that the Romans themselves tended not to use the subtractive shortcuts at all, and would more probably have written 99 as LXXXXVIIII.]

16. Thanks, muffin. That’s why I added my rider: this discussion has taken place here more than once!

17. Enjoyed this, thanks Boatman and Eileen

    27a, guessed this but could not parse it, tried moving a little chap from MAGIC(ian), then from W(izard) (izard = goatlike antelope)….. Favourite was NAVIGATE.

18. Almost genius, Cookie! I’ll have to remember IZARD for future use …

19. Thanks Boatman and Eileen
    Having been a bit rude about Boatman’s more esoteric clues in the past, I found this one tough but fair. Thanks all for explaining 16d

20. Thanks to Boatman, and to Eileen (it’s gratifying that you also had trouble with two of the answers I couldn’t parse!)

    Is there some poetic licence going on in 11a? I gather that “Enrolled Nurse” is a recognised title in Australia, but in the UK don’t we use “State Enrolled Nurse” as the title – giving SEN as the abbreviation?

21. Hi David Mop

    I pondered that for a minute or two, too, thinking that I was an ‘s’ short but both Chambers and Collins have EN = Enrolled nurse – in fact, Collins’ entry is ‘EN [in Britain] abbrev for Enrolled Nurse’.

    See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_the_United_Kingdom
    if you scroll down far enough!

22. Lovely puzzle – HERETIC was my favourite clue, for its sly sideways nod to Pythagoras. Thanks to everyone here with help with the troublesome parsings, which I didn’t get either.

23. Thanks, Eileen.

    Fun puzzle from Boatman, which didn’t give me a lot of trouble – except that I dashed in NISSAN HUT for 11a (Japanese garage?), which made 3d mystifying until I spotted my mistake.

    ’99’ is always IC in crosswords, kosher or not, so I spotted that immediately. As muffin @15 points out, there is no single convention for Roman numerals anyway. 4 on a clock face is traditionally represented as IIII, rather than IV, although 9 is IX. Anyone with an understanding of the principle of subtractive representation should be able to work out IC, whether ‘correct’ or not. However, I couldn’t fully parse 27a, having failed to notice Tolkien’s wizard – my excuse is that I always think of him as Mithrandir…

    The clue for HERETIC has an interesting allusion to Pythagoreanism.

24. Schroduck @22: Snap!

25. Thank you for that explanation Eileen. (But please excuse me if I still mutter into my beard a bit…)

26. hi, this is my first time commenting but I am a frequent visitor when I’m frustrated by being unable to parse an obviously correct answer. In this case my frustration was with 27d, where “MAGE” was OBVIOUSLY the master wizard…. ah well.

    Thank you all for the wonderful crossword community you provide!

27. oops, I mean 27a, of course.

28. Great fun – thanks to Boatman and Eileen. I also hadn’t worked out the GANDALF element – clever. I particularly liked HERETIC and NISSEN HUT.

29. Thanks Schroduck and Gervase. The Pythagorean allusion struck me immediately when I solved the puzzle, then I forgot to include it in the blog. This has not been one of my better days.

    [Mutter all you like, David. 😉 ]

    Welcome to logophile – please keep commenting!

30. Enjoyed this, and found it a bit less difficult than Boatman’s last few. TEMPEH was new to me but easy enough to guess once the crossers were in. Last in was EDGE. Liked HERETIC, CORN and EGG SALAD.

    Thanks to Eileen and Boatman

31. Glad you’re all having fun …

    Are any of you coming to my November Masterclass in Brighton, by the way?

32. From a technical viewpoint, definitely one of the worst puzzles I’ve ever seen. My criteria, I suggest, are somewhat different from those of the Guardian’s editor, so some mitigation, but this is a from a fellow who, I am given to understand, runs ‘master-classes’? OMG!

    Maybe I should attend, since I quite enjoyed this in my horribly perverse way. DOD (disaster of the day) = 22dn, but many contenders.

33. Schroduck @22, Gervase @ 23,

    In the Pythagoras article the reference to the belief that beans and human beings were created from the same material made me laugh. We were on leave at a hotel in England once where there was a cheval-glass in the bedroom. Our 3 year old son was found staring into it (he had never seen a real mirror before) saying “Bean? Bean? I’m not a bean”. He must have heard us talking about human beings (beans).

34. So hedgehoggy , which editors do you agree with?

35. hedgehoggy @ 32
    I can’t find a 22d – which clue is it that has attracted your displeasure?

36. 21d I suspect, a missing ‘a’.

37. Oh yes sorry, 22ac was my ‘favourite’! But there were many ‘delights’, as I’ve said.

38. As a testament to failing memory, I’ll relate my parsing of 27. I had the master wizard as MAGWITCH (Dickens’ character, not a wizard – I was thinking of HAGRID of the Harry Potter series) from which I subtracted ITCH (= CHAP? Well, chapped skin can itch, can it not?). Then add a soupcon of IC and an AND for WITH – et voila!

    Sad really, but I had to share.

39. Ref: 16Dn. Even in the UK a computer runs a program, not a programme, so the verb shoudl be “to program” a computer…

40. Thanks Boatman and Eileen

    Enjoyable puzzle … not as tough as he can be … but certainly a lot of grist in there.

    Finished in the SW corner with EXCISE DUTY, ALLOTMENT and TEMPEH the last few in. Took quite a while to see what was going on parsing wise with both EXCISE DUTY and ALLOTMENT.

    Thought that LAVER BREAD was the best of a very good bunch.

    By the way, haven’t seen either Bonxie (October, 2013) or Gordius (April) for a little while – anyone know news on either of them ?

41. Hello lovely crossword friends – I’ve got a stayed-up-all-night brain too (I was born in Scotland but live in England, so Salmond disenfranchised me…!) — but, & as I say, pls forgive me if I’ve missed something, I *still* don’t get 14d…

42. I usually find Boatman quite difficult but I found this rather easy-parsing problems notwithstanding-and enjoyable. Took the edge off the referendum rather! Favourite was FLESH AND BLOOD.
    Thanks Boatman.

43. Masses of uncertain parsing till I came here, the S half especially. For a while this half was mostly just lightly inked in, and that just the crossers, so uncertain was I of my answers. But they were all right though!

    At 11a, I don’t like N = navy and I think I’ve said so here before. RN = Royal Navy etc is fine. But it’s in Chambers so I suppose I’ll have to get used to it.

    CASH BOOK becomes just about my favourite-ever Spoonerism. Not a long list mind you.

44. “manger, for example” = VERB
    Isn’t “manger” a noun – in English (the French surely relates to “la”)?

    Just a thought …

45. LilSho @ 41. I was still having a problem with 14d. ChrisS @4 says DUTY is DUSTY = outdated without the S (direction), and Herb @ 5 says “outdated” is dusty, with the s taken out.

    in the clue “pointless” refers to points of the compass, so S (south direction) is taken out, I think.

46. Hi verboten @44

    I think ‘French’ is doing double duty and / or the italics indicate that ‘manger’ is French.

47. Does anyone else want to join Vince@39 in questioning “programme” as the computer-codifying verb? I wondered about it as well when I’d first written the clue, as I’m sure I’ve used both spellings in the past without thinking about it. And there it is in Chambers: they do indeed give “program” as the noun and “programme” as the verb, with “program” a US variant in the latter case. Quite odd, really.

48. Hi boatman
    Nice of you to drop in again.

    I used to teach a bit of IT. Although I would always use “programme” for a TV or radio experience, I used “program” for writing code, and, of course, “program” for the code produced.

    Interestingly, the site spellcheck underlined “programme”!

49. Hi Ashley, my ODE gives for program (noun & verb) ‘US spelling of programme (also widely used in computing contexts.)’ I would always use ‘program’ for computer-related matters but I don’t think the English spelling is wrong, so we don’t need to lose sleep over it. 🙂

50. Thanks Eileen & Boatman

    I enjoyed this but I too needed help with some of the parsing, so thanks to all those here who’ve helped.

    However, I’m still not fully understanding 22a: I can’t see how ‘initially fruitless’ indicates an ‘f’ that should be removed from ‘frisk’. It works if ‘after’ is used as a starting position indicator, but of course ‘after’ has already been used to indicate the position of ‘SIT’ so it surely can’t be that… can it?

51. Hi Angstony, in case Eileen has gone for tea……….

    Fruitless is one of those lift-and-separate words, so that ‘initially fruit’ gives the ‘f’ and less means take it away, I think. The ‘after’ is positioning the ‘SIT’ after the (f)RISK.

52. Thanks, Robi.

    Oops, I got that one wrong, too – definitely not my day. How did it go undetected for so long? One of my favourite types of clue, too. 🙁

    [I hope there are no mistakes in my blog of last Saturday’s Crucible.]

53. Hi Robi,

    Of course, it makes sense now. Thanks!

    I can’t say I’m fond of that practise – probably because it nearly always catches me out – but I usually spot them belatedly so I guess this one must have been a particularly sneaky. Well that’s my excuse anyway. 🙂

54. Hi Angstony @ 50: I read “initially fruitless search” as “frisk” minus (i.e., “less”) the initial letter of “fruit.” Thus the subtraction is done on “fruit,” not “fruitless,” and the “less” is what indicates the subtraction. I think this is an instance of what some here call a lift-and-separate, in which a clue word is not to be taken on its surface but instead broken into parts.

55. My first contribution to this site (and I expect to be shot down in flames), but isn’t the Indian food in 29d spelt DHAL not DAHL?

56. I always do crosswords in the evening, so by the time I come on here everything I wanted to say has been said!

    But on the IC question…I recently had to write cryptic clues for the names of everyone who would attend my mother-in-law’s 90th birthday celebration, and was delighted to find that my daughter Jemima, who was born in 1999, had MIM in the middle of her name! So I’m on Boatman’s side on this one!

    Also, I can cope with Spoonerisms where one of the words is a four-letter-synonym for CHEF!

    Many thanks as ever Eileen, and Boatman for some nice clues.

57. Elenem, a warm welcome to you.

    Dahl, Dhal or Dal all seem to be acceptable transliterations from the Hindi word it seems.

58. Count me as another who found this to be one of Boatman’s easier puzzles, although I couldn’t parse MAGIC WAND so thanks to those of you who did. I had no problem at all with “navvy gait” and thought it was a good clue. Yes, I know the origin of the word “navvy” is a contraction of navigator, but what has that got to do with the price of fish? I also thought 22ac was a clever clue.

59. Welcome, Elenem @55; according to Chambers, allowed spellings are: dal, daal, dahl and dhal. 🙂

60. Limeni@57 – agreed. That’s what can happen with the anglicisation of words that come from a different alphabet, never mind a different language. One Indian restaurant’s translation of various ingredients and dishes can be different from another’s, and the dictionaries will usually show them all.

61. Thanks Eileen: I smiled, to see you had exactly the problems as did I, with those same two clues.

    Still, I’m impressed by the prompt explanations from muffin and ChrisS, so thanks guys.

    I too found this easier in general than I expected from Boatman, and it’s nice of you to drop by, as always, when a setter does.

    All in all I found it a very entertaining puzzle on a theme quite close to home, as often seems to happen. Sue and I have recently taken an ALLOTMENT. We put in a row of beans in July, thinking we might just catch the end of the season. The summer didn’t end though, and Sue’s been blanching them for the freezer every other day, with no end in sight either.

    It’s perhaps a sign of a good puzzle when it elicits a healthy number of interesting or entertaining comments, and I’ve enjoyed this thread almost as much as the crossword. I’ve also remarked to myself, on the variety of spellings in curry houses, including everything from papadam to poppodom, and bhuna to boonah.

    Many thanks all.

62. (Sorry, my 54 crossed with Robi’s 51. Didn’t mean to take anything away from the latter, which is just fine as it is!)

63. Enjoyable, easyish (for a Boatman), clever at many places and difficult to parse at a couple of places.

    Thanks, Eileen, I wasn’t as excited as you about yesterday’s events, still my brain worked in an almost identical way for this crossword.

    Thanks for others to parse MAGIC WAND (27ac), a solution that was clear enough, and 14d’s EXCISE DUTY.

    Before I even had the solution of 14d, I tried to split outdated into out/dated, ‘out’ perhaps being an anagram and ‘dated’ whatever else. That’s how far it has come with Boatman puzzles & me! 🙂
    However, no such thing today.

    I agree with Eileen that “a lad” for “young man” is a bit impure, though acceptable.
    A pity that we had two CASHes in the puzzle – even if it cannot really bother me too much, some setters wouldn’t want this.

    Just recently, in a Quiptic blog, someone said that editor doesn’t like “hidden” devices with superfluous words. I think, Boatman sinned against this in 28d (CHEF) where “you” is only there to make the surface work.
    Again, I cannot be bothered too much myself.

    I am with Robi about N for Navy, I don’t like “served” much as an anagram indicator and Folk culminating” for K, well OK.
    All this, however, no criticism – just a matter of taste.

    This was a fine (and accessible) crossword.
    No need to have that old Ximenean/Libertarian discussion.
    Also, one should be aware that compiling a crossword with so many theme-related clues is not something one does in a couple of hours (or did he? 🙂 ).

    Many thanks to Boatman (and Eileen, of course).

    ps, brucew@aus questioned what happened to Bonxie and Gordius.
    I would like to add the incomparable Brendan who we haven’t seen in the last two months. He may have set six or so puzzles this year but it doesn’t feel like he is a prominent Guardian setter nowadays.

64. Hello All

    It’s been really reassuring to know that, in my befuddled state, I was not the only one to be perplexed by a couple of clues.

    And it’s really good to have the chance to reiterate the point that 15² bloggers are not ‘know-alls’ but simply enthusiasts who have volunteered to put themselves in the chair for the day and instigate discussion.

    I’m also reassured by the fact that I’m just home from a quiz in which we came second – and in which I claim to have had considerable input, of course. [We called ourselves Better Together.]

65. Hi Sil, small point but I think you meant navvy rather than navy. I had no problems with either. 🙂

66. Sorry, Jeff, I thought it was you.
    However, it was Trailman @43 who mentioned it.
    And, um , Mrs Chambers told me I should not quibble about it!

67. Thanks to Boatman and Eileen.

    I couldn’t parse MAGIC WAND. The best that I could come up with was that ‘master wizard’ was ‘archmage’, and that the little chap might be ‘Archie’ (but I couldn’t explain what happened to the ‘I’).

68. Thanks all. Lots of smiles, with the broadest caused by Cookie’s delightful tale of his little man and the hotel mirror. To think that his son must have genuinely wondered, for a little while at least, whether he was a bean! Fabulous.
    On the subject of infant self-awareness, I am reminded of my own three year old self. I recall happily taking a sugar lump from a crowded table’s bowl knowing that I couldn’t be seen – for I kept my eyes firmly closed!
    Thanks to the Boatman and Eileen….
    (and why is hedgehoggy always so prickly I wonder….?!)

69. ”
    Fruitless is one of those lift-and-separate words, so that ‘initially fruit’ gives the ‘f’ and less means take it away, I think. The ‘after’ is positioning the ‘SIT’ after the (f)RISK”

    “Dares” doesn’t mean “risks it” surely, either. It means “takes a chance” which isn’t the same thing

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