Guardian 26,426 / Nutmeg

59 comments on “Guardian 26,426 / Nutmeg”

1. many thanks to Gaufrid and Nutmeg; most unusually, I spotted the Nina – I assumed it to have political references to the LDs and possibly the Greens, although I am far from sure; it could just be because it’s in the centre. I liked 6d too, despite having a slightly different interpretation of what constitutes the final clue

2. 13D – is Labrador a peninsular or an island?

3. Hi Shirley
   “13D – is Labrador a peninsular or an island?”

   A good question and one that didn’t cross my mind when solving/blogging. The answer is given in the following two paragraphs copied from the relevant Wikipedia article:

   “Labrador is the distinct, northerly region of the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador. It comprises the mainland portion of the province, separated from the island of Newfoundland by the Strait of Belle Isle. It is the largest and northernmost geographical region in Atlantic Canada.

   Labrador occupies the eastern part of the Labrador Peninsula. It is bordered to the west and the south by the Canadian province of Quebec. Labrador also shares a small land border with the Canadian territory of Nunavut on Killiniq Island.”

4. Thanks Gaufrid. I still don’t get ‘third word. ‘. Peninsular is adjectival – from Labrador. The Sugar thing meant nothing down here, but Google explained the TV reference. And confirmed the unknown French composer. Finished it, but without much glee.

5. Thanks, Gaufrid.

   I agree with every one of your favourites. Not quite so tricky as Nutmeg usually is, I think, but very enjoyable. As so often, I missed the Nina.

   Hi Shirley @2 – Labrador is a peninsula: PENINSULAR is the adjective, hence ‘from Labrador’.

   Re 19dn SEVERAL [quite a few]: [please note, this is purely for interest and not to start a heated discussion on what is ‘right’. 😉 ] Over the years, I’ve asked dozens of people about this. ‘Several’, to me, means no more than a handful [or two] but I know that many people think of it as being a much larger number. I’ve never thought to look it up until now but I’ve just found SOED: ”As a vague numeral: Of an indefinite [but not large] number exceeding two or three; more than two or three but not very many’; Chambers: ‘more than one [usu more than three], but not very many’ and Collins [my favourite disappointing me!]: ‘more than a few’. So, it seems it’s a matter of personal perception. Purely for curiosity, I’d be interested to know how other people think of it.

6. Okay, got ‘couple. ‘

7. Hi Eileen
   Well, seeing as you’ve asked …
   My take has always been:
   a couple – two (or occasionally I might stretch it to three)
   a few – more than two but less than a handful
   a handful – five or six
   several – more than two but still in single figures

8. Thanks for this but there are a couple of vague explanations we still dont get. Notably THIRD WORD if anyone could spell it out for us.
   Thanks

9. I guess “couple” comes from the third word in the final clue (24 down) – but surely the final clue is 27 across?

10. Thanks Gaufrid and Nutmeg.

    Eileen: I’m with you on SEVERAL – a few more than few but fewer than many.

11. Thanks Nutmeg and Gaufrid

    Difficulty about the same as yesterday’s Quiptic, quite hard for me.
    THIRD WORLD and GASPING were rather fun.

    Eileen @5, a handful or two of what, walnuts or peanuts? For me “quite a few” describes SEVERAL perfectly, more than two but not many.

    baerchen @1, perhaps you and Gaufrid are crossword GEEKs

12. Thanks Peter @ 9. As Gaufrid says, it is novel. I’m inclined to agree that which is the final clue, is debatable

13. @11, correction, a few, more than two; quite a few, or several, not more than ten or so.

14. Thanks Nutmeg and Gaufrid.

    I missed the NINA – couldn’t see the CENTRE for the borders. I got a bit stuck on the SW corner, although somehow managed to drag DELIBES from the nether regions of my brain. SEA SNAIL looked like it was originally meant as a down clue – I can’t see how you get the reversal of IAN’S without using ‘up’ (?)

    I see d=departs is in Chambers. Anyone know when it’s used?

15. Robi @ 14, d = departs is also in the OCED, so it must be generally acceptable. The OCED gives
    a = arrives, so perhaps at airports.

16. Thanks, Gaufrid.

    Can’t say I found this puzzle difficult, but for me it wasn’t the walkover that other posters imply. I missed the Nina, true to form.

    Some nice clues – I liked the surface of 13d, though it’s a pity that Nutmeg had to follow the strict convention on capitalisation and have ‘Labrador’, which gave a broad hint (although the punctuation in 14a, another favourite, is unorthodox). I also starred 20a, 5d, 6d and 17d.

    I consider ‘few’ and ‘several’ to overlap in numerical terms (they are ‘indefinite’, after all), but don’t you think that ‘few’ has a connotation of scantiness and disappointment, whereas ‘several’ is rather more neutral? And ‘quite a few’ is most often used with a sense of litotes to mean ‘rather a lot’!

17. Lovely, Nutmeg; thanks Gaufrid.

    Re 6d: Which is always the final clue as listed, here, in the paper, on the website, next to every crossword ever? The last down clue. I set down my valise.

    Re SEVERAL: I reckon it’s all about context. “A good batsman always has several options in playing the ball” – around 5 or 6. “On a clear day, from the top of the hill one can see for several miles” – maybe 10-15. “Several members of the audience left in disgust” – could be 20 or more.

18. I’d say 27a is the final answer, being last in the grid, but 24d is the final clue, being last in the list. That’s only my take, of course. There may be a few/several/quite a few others.

    When I began to encounter the word “several” as a kid, I’d usually equate it to somewhere around seven, simply due to the similarity of the words. Of course context may dictate otherwise, particularly as part of a large number. “Several members of the audience applauded the song” would seem fine to me, for an audience of 1000 where the “several” were 100. Though I’m not sure the singer would find it as fine.

    An enjoyable crossword.

19. Nutmeg is usually very good, but this is only quite good.

    First there are a great many single-letter applications, which I find annoying, second, 15A struggles a bit, third, I don’t understand 6D at all. It is a mental block of mine I’m sure, but then it may be a rubbish clue! Compileritis?

20. The Few isn’t two or three. Several is the number of pints I can have sometimes. And it means ‘different’.

    😀

21. Cookie @15, thanks. I found in my ODE that it says: ‘(in travel timetables)’

22. I found this quite hard but satisfying, with the exception of 6d (thanks Gaufrid for explaining that one).

    These days I do the crossword while sitting comfortably in my armchair at home, and even then I sometimes struggle, especially with the likes of Enigmatist and Imogen. I think I might have been defeated by this one too if I were still working, and trying to do the crossword in my lunch break or on the train home – which I assume is when it is expected that puzzles like this will be done. Is that just me getting old or have Guardian Cryptics been getting harder in tha last few years?

23. Thanks, all, for your indulgence regarding ‘several’. I’ve always been interested in different people’s different perceptions and use of words.

    Gervase @16: “don’t you think that ‘few’ has a connotation of scantiness and disappointment, whereas ‘several’ is rather more neutral?” I think it all depends whether ‘few’ is prefaced by ‘a’. 😉

    “And ‘quite a few’ is most often used with a sense of litotes to mean ‘rather a lot’!”

    Indeed [certainly more than Cookie’s ‘more than two but not many’] – which is why I raised the question in connection with the clue. It was through this very topic that I first came across ‘litotes’ – all those decades ago, learning Latin in a [State!] Norfolk school, having to translate ‘nonnulli’ – literally ‘not none’, therefore, often, ‘by no means none’ or ‘a considerable number’. Several [!] dictionaries give the translation ‘several’ but our Latin teacher always maintained, ‘But it’s a ‘Norfolk several’ – so I’ve always wondered whether it was, in fact, a regional thing.

    And, Cookie @11, I wasn’t using ‘handful’ literally – I might say, ‘There were [was? – oh dear!] only a handful of people at the meeting’ – more like a number that you could count on the digits of one hand.

    [Thanks to Mitz and John Appleton, too – that makes a lot of sense.]

24. Another entertaining workout from the consistent Nutmeg – perhaps not one of her most difficult but still plenty that required a bit of thought to parse. Last in for me was PUNCTURED. Liked GREEN PARTY, LIBERAL DEMOCRAT, SUGAR BEET, THIRD WORLD and RESTFULLY. Missed the Nina but wasn’t looking for one.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and Gaufrid

25. I agree with Eileen about several – I would never use it to describe a large number, but I can’t say I’ve ever thought about the reasons.

26. My previous comment may have been misleading: not being a native – I only ended up there after starting secondary school – like my Latin mistress, I didn’t subscribe to the ‘Norfolk several’.

27. Eileen and beery hiker: The use of these indefinite words and expressions is highly idiomatic and also somewhat idiosyncratic. Consider the following peculiarity: ‘a number (of things)’ will generally imply ‘a (smallish) number’, whereas ‘numerous (things)’ suggests ‘very many’.

28. On a similar note, I’ve always wondered how many measures you need to make a raft…

29. I found this enjoyable, and a perfect standard for a weekday.

    I’m not sure if the non-rising ‘IANS’ in SEA SNAIL was deliberately archly playful, given that it was technically a Down clue; but if not it seems to be another example of the Guardian Crossword Editor being asleep at the wheel.

    Fun crossword though – thanks both.

    I don’t know about the crosswords getting harder, but the captchas – “nine x 8 =  ” !     Where will it end!

30. Hi again Gervase

    Exactly: I almost said, ‘a number of’, rather than ‘several’, in my comment @23!

31. Eileen @23, sounds like you’re all fingers and thumbs.

32. I didn’t find this especially difficult but it wasn’t very enjoyable. I don’t understand 6dn and I thought some of the other clues were a bit iffy.
    Oh well. Tomorrow is another day!

33. Thanks all
    Favourite dusky, last in ridge.
    Centre is hidden in middle row???? Really?

34. rcwhiting @33, it starts with the C of SCRAMBLE, and coincidentally there is GEEK starting with the G of RIDGE, going down.

35. Perfect for me: finished, but a struggle. Couldn’t parse THIRD WORLD and still can’t! Thanks to Nutmeg and Gaufrid.

36. drofle – to spell it out, couple is the THIRD WORD of clue 24d (the final clue)

37. Eileen @26. Have you heard of the abbreviation NFN? = Normal for Norfolk i.e. abnormal everywhere else!

38. A few people have now said that they still don’t understand 6dn, despite my blog and some subsequent comments, so let’s see if I can make it clearer.

    The wordplay says “Like couple in final clue”. The final clue, 24dn, is “Remove a couple of fellows …” which makes ‘couple’ the THIRD WORD in this clue. This is then put around (touring) L (large) to give THIRD WORLD.

39. Hi cholecyst @37

    Yes. 😉

40. cholecyst @37, hence Silly Suffolk? (actually the silly comes from selig, holy)

41. Looking at DOFF in the dictionary I was surprised to see that it literally is “do off”, Middle English.

42. Thanks Gaufrid and Nutmeg

    I found this harder than many, by the sound of it, and missed the central nina. However I was pleased to solve all the clues and understand them even if I do seem to be getting slower. And several clues (already noted by others) were very clever indeed.

    I was glad to see that I am not the only one who thinks of ‘seven’ for ‘several’. I would have thought there were more of us since it is a type of false connection that is commonplace in crosswords.

    Like hedgehoggy @19 I was struck by the large number of beheadings and other ‘single letter applications’.

43. Cookie @41

    Likewise DON is do on.

44. I buy the paper each day and 23,10 down had( 3 and 5 )but it was actually printed incorrectly and became (4 and 4) so I was stymied. I agree with you Eileen re several . I’m not a fan of Nutmeg usually too tricky for me usually but liked 12 down for political reasons and 6 down. Thanks Gaufrid and Nutmeg

45. This was one of those cases where I flailed at the puzzle for about a half-hour without much luck, then set it aside. When I picked it up again about an hour later, it was practically a write-in. I guess my brain was just not switched on the first time.

    I hate beheadments and single-letter substitutions. Hate them. That may have been part of my problem initially.

    For me, “several” is deliberately vague: “more than a couple, but less than a lot.” There is no way I could tell you whether “several” is more or less than “a few.”

    Of course, over here, the person looking for an apprentice is not Sugar but Trump, and I didn’t know the British reference before coming here. (That’s the only clue I didn’t parse.)

46. Too late for most bloggers to notice but just wanted to put on record that I quite enjoyed this crossword, the solve proceeding at a good pace after I finally managed to make a proper start about half an hour ago.

    I’m not counting the two hours I had the puzzle in front of me during my photography class as I was meant to be concentrating on the tutor and anyway spent a fair bit of that time at the front having three of my best landscapes pulled apart.

47. I distinctly recall reading somewhere as a child (I forget the source, but like all things I learned as a child, it must be the only correct answer) that “several” meant three, while “a few” meant 8. Presumably there was an express or implied “about” in the text, though I recall not noticing it. It has been quite a few years, however, and my memory has failed me on several occasions.

48. I don’t see the nina. Could someone please explain?

49. Susan Sleight @48, it starts at C of SCRAMBLE, then there are three black squares, then E and so on.

50. Robi @ 14: There is an “up” in the clue, so SEAL swallows IANS upwards. What am I missing?

51. Yes, jeceris, there is an “up” in the clue but half of the solution is Across, including the reversal of IAN’S. That’s what Robi’s talking about.
    I think he’s right though I didn’t think about it when solving this puzzle.

    Hedgehoggy @19 sums up three features of this Nutmeg crossword.
    “First there are a great many single-letter applications, which I find annoying, second, 15A struggles a bit, third, I don’t understand 6D at all”.
    Now, I wholeheartedly agree with the first statement. It was similar in yesterday’s Quiptic. But, skipping the second (which was about the relatively weak 15ac), 6d was by far the most inventive clue of the puzzle and one to be treasured.

    Not the hardest puzzle by Nutmeg, perhaps a Quiptic Plus Plus.
    But she is a setter who has her priorities right, one of them being precision.

    Thanks Gaufrid for blogging (or stepping in?).

52. Thankyou Cookie. That was the first time I had posted on this forum, although I read and enjoy it every day. Many thanks to all contributors for daily entertainment/learning.

53. Late as ever! But had to say that I found this a very enjoyable puzzle. Surprisingly slow to get started but as soon as the PASSENGER PIGEON fledged, the rest tumbled in quickly. Yet terribly enjoyable; thought THIRD WORLD was terrific.
    On the couple/several chat: I sometimes purposefully, and naughtily, say ‘couple’ knowing it means two but expecting my listener thinks I mean ‘several’. That way I can promise to do something (usually an irksome chore) within a time framework (a couple of minutes, hours, days etc) while knowing that the promisee’s expectations are easier to meet than my promise! It keeps the pressure down, but please don’t tell anyone!!
    Thanks to Nutmeg and Gaufrid (again!)

54. Thanks Nutmeg and Gaufrid

    Completed this yesterday and enjoyed it. Thought that there was going to be a political theme for a while but it didn’t eventuate – didn’t spot the nina at all.

    A lot of inventive clues with THIRD WORLD being the best of all. HUGO was a close second.

    Had not heard of Alan Sugar, so didn’t get the apprentice part of the clue.

55. Cookie@34
    Yes,I had noticed. My objection is to ‘is hidden’, I would prefer ‘has appeared by chance’.

56. RCW @55 – not exactly hidden, but I’m sure it wasn’t by chance either…

57. This is so late I imagine only Gaufrid will see it, but thanks all the same. I finally got around to doing this in the weekly and while I got there without any particular problems and enjoyed it as I worked slowly through it, I needed to come here for the parsing of a few of the answers. Third World (which I think is really quite neat, now I see it), Delibes and the reason for Sugar. That’s why I like this site so much – it changes an annoyed ‘what on earth?’ Into an appreciative ‘oh, now I see’. So thanks again Gaufrid, and of course Nutmeg..

58. My first contribution to this site: I never thought I would join the ranks of the crossword geeks, but that’s retirement for you. I’ve taken the Guardian Weekly for 45 years and a week is about how long it usually takes me to finish or nearly finish the cryptic crossword. And I do think it has got harder over the past year or two, though I am keeping pace.

    Anyway – forgive my ignorance – my question is what does Nina stand for?

59. Welcome dougal j
    For an explanation of Nina please see the FAQ page.

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