We were awaiting an Io puzzle with some trepidation, as we’d been told that they could be very challenging. As there is no facility to cheat or check one’s guesses and reverse-engineer the solutions on the FT, there’s no safety net for the blogger. We found this a challenge in parts, but mainly because of what we see as vagueness of some of the clues and obscureness of some of the answers. On the other hand, there were some really clever clues to compensate.
| Across | ||
| 7 | DR WHO |
Extensive traveller solving word search at last (2,3)
An anagram of WORD and the last letter of search |
| 8 | SUTCLIFFE |
For a great opener to link a variety of clues with fifth’s not hard (9)
An anagram of CLUES and FIFT (ie fifth minus the letter h). Very obscure, and the “for” at the bebinning of the clue serves no purpose |
| 9 | DAVISON |
Suffragette is appearing after endlessly repeating Channel (7)
Dave is the TV channel showing repeats. Delete the last letter (endlessly) to give DAV Add IS ON (is appearing) and you have DAVISON, the name of the suffragette who is best known for being killed when she stepped in front of a racehorse |
| 11 | BEATLE |
Predict one’s involved with roots of rock’n’roll & skiffle (6)
We really struggled with this. It is the only word we can think of that fits the intersecting letters and that has a connection, albeit tenuous, with the clue. We initially thought that the last three leyyers were KLE, from the reference to the roots (which we took to mean the last letters) of rock, roll and skiffle, but we couldn’t think of any word that fits the clue in that case. We may have missed something blindingly obvious, so all contributions will be gratefully received. |
| 12 | DOWN |
See 28 Down
|
| 13 | BBC |
Auntie 26 close to dumb uncle’s heart (3)
B is the symbol for boron, the answer to 26 down. Add the last letter (close) of dumB and the central letter (heart) of unCle |
| 15 | CROSS |
Treasure kiss that’s not right? 10, this’ll show you! (5)
A cross is used as a symbol to mark the spot where treasure is buried, an incorrect answer and (as a Roman numeral) ten. |
| 18 | ANNIVERSARY |
Northern raver is unhinged, gatecrashing some celebration (11)
An anagram of N (northern), RAVER, IS and ANY (some) |
| 21 | OWLET |
Fellow Le Touquet puts up “not- yet-such-a-wise-guy”! (5)
Included in the phrase “FellOW LE Touquet”. We thought the “up” might signify a reversal, but it didn’t |
| 24 | MAN |
Where people compete to win TT race (3)
We just couldn’t see this. If it simply refers to the fact that the TT races are on the Isle of Man, it’s more of a quick crossword clue. Again, maybe we are missing something. |
| 2 | FLIP |
5 , 3 Unorthodox uplift, then navy displays off the wall pool manoeuvre (4,4)
An anagram of uplift and RN (Royal Navy). A flip turn is how Americans refer to what is more commonly known in Britain as a tumble turn. |
| 27 | TOO TOO |
Exquisite skirt’s got caught (3-3)
Again, we were far from convinced by this clue. It defines “too, too” as exquisite, whereas most people and dictionaries woul define it as excessive or going beyond the bounds of convention, good taste, or common sense . Too, too is a (very tenuous in our opinion) homophone of a tutu, a dancer’s skirt. |
| 28 | ELEMENT |
Three successive characters extended time factor (7)
The letters L, M and N, which appear in succession in the alphabet, spaced out (extended) with the letter E, plus T for time. We’ve no idea why E, and not some other letter, is the spacer. Perhaps we’ve got it completely wrong and it’s a much better clue than we think. |
| 29 | BEETHOVEN |
Alien was right for new orbiting film (9)
BEHOVE (was right for) plus N for new, around ET, the lovable alien. |
| 30 | CAIRN |
Stones marking site where rector’s buried by murderer? (5)
CAIN, the biblical murderer, with R for rector inserted. |
| Down | ||
| 1 | TRADE ON |
Take advantage of Jazz Age? (5,2)
TRAD (as practised by Acker Bilk and his ilk) plus EON |
| 2 | THEVENIN |
Engineer with proposition that night out is shortened? (8)
From the crossing letters we worked out that this refers to Léon Charles Thévenin, a French telegraph engineer. Presumably the word play is “the evening” minus the last letter of each word. Obscure or what? |
| 3 | TURN |
See 25
|
| 4 | SCUBA |
Tip for Captain aboard Nautilus perhaps needing a breather? (5)
C, the first letter (tip) of captain, inserted into SUB, or submarine, which the Nautilus is a fictional example of, plus A. SCUBA is the acronym for Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus. It was developed by Jacques Cousteau and Emile Gagnan. |
| 5 | MIDAIR |
Somewhere above you and me, The Listener’s challenge (6)
A very tenuous homophone (except perhaps for people from Nottingham) of my dare |
| 6 | X FILES |
Unsolved cases from the box: short career in it turned around (1-5)
LIF, life, or career, minus its last letter (short) inserted into XES, sex, or “it” reversed. |
| 10 | SO BE IT |
Model accepting honour from Her Majesty? Oh, OK then (2,2,2)
SIT, as in model for a picture, with OBE, an award bestowed by the British monarch, inserted. |
| 14 | CREAM |
The best band to put their heads together for the 13? (5)
Double definition. Cream released an album in the nineties recorded live at the BBC |
| 16 | OXY |
Ordinary axes both sharp in combination (3)
O for ordinary plus X plus Y, the axes of a graph. Oxy- is a combining form meaning “sharp,” “acute,” “keen,” “pointed,” “acid,”used in the formation of compound words such as oxymoron, which means “sharply stupid” in Greek. |
| 17 | USANCE |
An English ecclesiastical system following American practice (6)
US, American, plus AN plus CE, the English church |
| 18 | ALL |
On radio, it bores everyone (3)
A homophone of awl, a tool used for piercing (is boring strictly the same as piercing?) |
| 19 | RIFLEMAN |
Could it be that Tin Tin holds flickering flame for soldier? (8)
RIN, the first part of Rin Tin Tin, the canine film and TV star, with an anagram (flickering) of flame inserted. |
| 20 | VICTORY |
Success in contest Aled’s not mentioned in saying farewell (7)
Valedictory minus Aled |
| 22 | WOODEN |
Insensible poem succeeded on tour (6)
WON, succeeded, with ODE, poem, inserted. Again, we thought this was stretching the definition. A wooden actor is clumsy or inexpressive, rather than insensible. |
| 23 | ESTATE |
Chipped tea set’s all that one owns (6)
An anagram (chipped is the indicator) of TEA SET |
| 26 | BORON |
Item near top of table’s gold leg that gives bishop support (5)
B for bishop plus OR, gold, plus ON, or leg in cricket. Boron is near the top of the periodic table of elements |
| 28, 12 | EYES DOWN |
Get ready for house clearing and on Wednesday – off! (4,4)
An ananram of ON WEDNESDAY, minus (clearing) the letters A, N and D |
Thanks D&L, and congratulations on completing a tough assignment! I think 11a is A (one) in BET (predict) + last letters of rock’n’rolL and skifflE, and it’s an &lit.
Also congratulations to Mr & Mrs Io, whose 5th wedding 18 across is today.
First of all Happy 5th Wedding Anniversary to our lovely setter and his equally lovely Jane – I saw 18a early on and can see several other references to shared interests in this enjoyable puzzle.
11a is indeed BEATLE – BET (predict) round A (one) followed by the ‘roots’ of rolL and skifflE.
Thanks to Io and David & Linda.
Too good for me- thought I did well to reach the halfway mark and it didnt help getting assets instead of estate.
Toughometer turned to max here.
Like copmus, I didn’t finish [well done, David and Linda!] but just wanted to add my congratulations, John and Jane – can’t believe it’s five years!
[crypticsue – are you saying that they’re off down the Bingo of a Wednesday evening?]
Many thanks, Io – wish I’d had more time today [but can’t be sure I’d have finished, anyway].
Too hard for me – got half way but the nasty grid seemed to confound the helpfulness of my entered solutions..
Well done D&L and thanks IO
Thanks David and Linda – this one can’t have been at all easy to blog.
I struggled with Thevenin at the end, but just about got it from the wordplay.
24ac: I reckon this is meant as a double definition with race=man for the second one.
28ac: the letters L, M & N can be written as el, em & en.
14dn: the members of Cream were Bruce, Baker & Clapton, heads of which give BBC.
And I must admit I didn’t spot the theme till I’d almost finished solving, but there are lots of references to the fifth of whatever, as hinted at in the clue for 8ac.
Fifth Dr Who: Peter DAVISON
Fifth Beatle: Stuart SUTCLIFFE
Fifth element: BORON
Fifth ESTATE
BEETHOVEN’s Fifth
And of course WOODEN for a Fifth Anniversary – my congrats too to John & Jane.
And BEETHOVEN’s fifth is also known as the VICTORY Symphony.
Pandean@6 Thanks for that. We were focused on getting it out of the way so we didn’t look beyond the crossword.
Another fifth; the fifth man in the Philby etc group is widely thought to be John Cairncross (20 across 15 across), so perhaps that accounts for the inclusion of the awful 24 across.
That’s the issue, really – trying to fit everything around a theme makes for some dodgy and obscure clues, gives the impression that the setter is trying too hard and makes it all a bit of a slog.
I cannot help comparing this crossword with today’s excellent Guardian crossword, which looks effortless and totally uncontrived.
Dear David and Linda,I’m feeling a wee bit hard done by…Vague and obscure? Possibly guilty on 2 (defence below) and 16dn. But…
8ac: (i) Herbert Sutcliffe, the obscure Yorkshire & England opener, still boasts the highest ever completed England batting average; (ii) “For” is needed for both surface and cryptic readings;
11ac: A in BET + last letters &lit;
15ac: you missed out X=kiss;
18ac: the anagram is in ANY;
24ac: double definition – MAN = ‘race’;
27ac: Chambers confirms that TOO-TOO and ‘tutu’ are homophonically identical, and also the ‘exquisite’ meaning – indeed, the very first in the list;
28ac: see Chambers: L,M and N are ‘spelt’ EL, EM and EN;
2dn: I too thought this quite obscure, but there is a sizeable wikipedia entry for both the man and (separately) his theorem;
5dn: ‘me’ and ‘mi’ are different ways of spelling the note, leaving DAIR hompophone of ‘dare’;
14dn: double definition + BBC initials of the band’s surnames
18dn: awls bore, not pierce, according to Chambers;
22dn: again, see Chambers.
Not too contrived, really? I too enjoyed the Guardian puzzle but, let’s be fair, Paul’s themed answers weren’t all paired.
Io
Many thanks, Andrew, Cryptic Sue, Eileen and Pandean for the good wishes!
Jane will see them later, she’s banned from looking at this site until she’s done the puzzle.
Cheers,
John
John@9
First, happy anniversary.
Chambers has a lot to answer for. What you say about these interpretations being in Chambers may be correct but I don’t see Chambers as the be-all and end-all. I’m interested in English as it is used to communicate.
I don’t want to get into a detailed discussion, but just to take one example, I (and I suspect you do too) associate boring with a rotary motion, as in boring a well. Awls pierce, as a sword or knife does.
But that’s not the point, really, and now that we’ve entered into this dialogue, I’ll try to explain what I mean. Please take this criticism in the constructive spirit in which it is made. The FT crossword became a bit joyless, and felt as if the technique was the most important issue. To paraphrase the cliche about art, I don’t know anything about surfaces and cryptic readings, but as a user of crosswords I do know what floats my boat. And the Guardian crossword hit the spot. Someone else made a similar comparison in the comments on the Guardian crossword today. As you say, the Guardian answers weren’t paired -but perhaps the freedom from that constraint allowed the clues to be crisp and elegant.
Started this early today & only managed half of the answers; since returning to it have been able to complete, more or less unaided. However, I needed much help with parsing so many thanks to all for the explanations. Ashamed to say that I was totally stumped by “cross” – a lovely clue & really quite simple (when you know how!).
David & Linda, you deserve a special mention – wouldn’t have had your job for a pension!
Thanks to Io, both for the explanation and for an entertaining challenge. [Best wishes to you & Jane on your special day, by the way].
David is entitled to his opinion that Chambers is not the be-all and end-all, but it is a universal convention in the crossword world that Chambers is the standard. As a setter, I am frequently annoyed by Chambers’s non-inclusion of well-known abbreviations (in particular) and some other things, but if there is no touchstone to which all can refer, then solvers would have to know the precise dialect of English I speak or have to put up with my slightly weird idea of what a word means. Taking Chambers, with all its faults, as the standard means that everybody knows what’s fair game: the setter can’t be accused of cheating the solver if he/she is following the standard – whatever that standard may be. You may think the Laws of Cricket contain sillinesses, and most players do, but the umpire is still there to make sure that those are the Laws they play by.
John always amazes me with the creativity of his clueing, even if there’s always one clue per puzzle I end up detesting: this time it was CROSS, because I hate >2 definitions, which I think unfair (although other people quite obviously disagree about that, and the only real implication is that I don’t use them when setting). The rest did its usual fine job of making me wonder what on earth was going on until the penny dropped.
Chalmie, I think you’ve put your finger on what is my concern: that convention and form become more important than entertainment and the concurrent risk that the crossword becomes more about the compiler, the provider, and less about the solver, the end user. Using your cricket analogy, it’s like the cricketers with wonderful technique who never seem to deliver the results.
For me, the pleasure is in the challenge of solving the clue, the eureka moment. Sometimes the eureka moment provokes a smile. But I don’t want to dwell on it. Once I know the answer I move on. So in my book, a clue like 24 across is totally unsatisfying because it is no challenge at all. It may have several layers of complexity if I analyse it to the nth degree, but it’s history as far as I’m concerned.
Phew – that was tough – even though it didn’t seem so at first.
27a held me up. ODO has it meaning the exact opposite of that. Presumably the given meaning is Sloanespeak or Bufton-Tuftonish or somesuch.
@Chalmie #13
“but it is a universal convention in the crossword world that Chambers is the standard”
It absolutely is not – even though some Chambers lovers may like to pretend that it is.
More so maybe in the barred-grid world but the main puzzle editors (over time – not just the current ones) have often been at pains to stress that they mainly use Collins and Concise Oxford and certainly do not accept the appearance of words like “taghairm” in Chambers as a valid reason for allowing them as an answer in a daily puzzle.
Damn – taghairm was used as an example in Greer’s book – I see now that it’s found its way into Collins. OK – “kilfud-yoking”.
For a while now Chambers have been running the same stunt that EPL football clubs do when they change their kit every season just to force the parents to buy the latest ones for their kids (and not just with dictionaries).
They’re forever banging on about how marvellous the forthcoming new edition will be. One regular feature now is that each new edition corrects the increasingly large number of errors in the previous one.
I’ll stick with the online ones thanks. If OneLook can’t find it in any of its linked free dictionaries AFAIAC it doesn’t exist.
Many thanks to blogger (tough gig) and setter.
Oops.
By “puzzle editors” – I meant “daily puzzle editors” – ie the ones in the(so-called) qualities.
Not for me. Impossible as even the answers I guessed at didn’t make sense. Still I now IO isn’t for me!
Thanks to everyone for the good wishes, and to Io/John for the puzzle — lovely surprise!
I confess that, though I solved most of it without major problems, there were a few clues that held me up. 8a, SUTCLIFFE, was one that got a big tick meaning I liked it a lot — not obscure to me at all!
@Jolly Swagman #15/16
That “daily puzzle editors” stress that they don’t use Chambers but use Collins or something else comes as news to me. Admittedly, my only real contact with daily puzzle editors comes from when they vet the puzzles I send them and tell me that not only is the abbreviation I’ve tried to use not in Chambers, it’s not in any of the other dictionaries either so I’m going to have to change the clue. Of course “it’s in Chambers” isn’t sufficient: I’ve had clues turned down because although what I’ve got is supported by Chambers, it’s too obscure for a daily puzzle.
Still, what’s my practical experience as a professional setter got to do with it? I’m sure you know best.
@Chalmie
Well – I’ll take the printed word of Brian Greer and his predecessor at The Times and the online homilies of the Guardian puzzle editor over your “practical experience as a professional setter” any day of the week.
Indy editor Eimi has confirmed on this site that he uses Collins as the arbiter of hyphenation.
Times may change. Setters are a dime a dozen – editors are a law unto themselves. They do what they want.
The state of play seems to be that most of them are quite flexible but Collins seems to be the most favoured. Any move towards giving Chambers the status in daily puzzles that it more or less has in barred grid would be a retrograde one.
Out of the small number of commenters on this particular thread you’ve got that view from me and (at risk of putting words into his mouth) Dave – so your “universal” is looking a bit lame.
JS – you’ve raised a very interesting issue regarding the role of crossword editors. We do the Guardian, Indy and FT crosswords most days (and we do get out a lot, too). Although many setters work for all three, we inevitably find the FT ones less fun than the other two. There must be some reason for that.
We have a small pile of crosswords that we’ve missed for some reason and that we dip into in idle moments. One of the ones we did today was the Indy number 8949 by Klingsor, which we liked a lot. For no particular reason I looked at the write-up on this site and saw that others have the same view.
One of them is Monk, who expressed the point I am trying to make about over-engineering (as I see it) so well that the best I can do is reproduce his comment, which reads as follows:
“… a real treat on so many fronts: air-tight, inventive, fresh and relatively compact/minimalistic clueing; interesting vocab; entertaining and often witty surfaces; rarely does an answer require guesswork then reverse-engineering from the clue; never a Nina-forced obscure word in sight.”
The Times Setters’ Guide gives Collins as the dictionary of choice for its puzzles.
Chambers tends to be the authority for barred puzzles because of its obscure entries.
David – the FT’s brief, compared to the Indy, is a) to be rather easier and b) minimise references to British TV shows/D-list celebs because the FT has a global audience. On the other hand, the FT editor doesn’t mind compound anagrams and the Indy only allows them if the surface is superb. Expert solvers are more likely to be titillated by an Indy because it’s more likely to be tough.
I tend to compose using FT grids unless I’ve got a very specific thematic idea. That way, after they’ve been tested, I can take a view as to whether I want to submit it to the FT or the Indy or somewhere else or nowhere, taking into account what I’ve divined about what editors like and don’t like. (After a year or so, those which have gone nowhere as well as those which did go somewhere get published on my website (click on my name) if you run out of other puzzles.)
I find it strange that your view of the FT is that it is “inevitable” that the FT will be the least fun. In my view, it’s very likely that if the FT’s puzzle has been composed by Monk, it will be the most fun of the day. (I’m not going to be invidious by saying that if setter X produces the puzzle in a particular paper, it’s almost certainly going to be the least fun of the day, but I bet all of us see the odd pseudonym appearing and lose the will to live.)
I know what you mean about some puzzles being over-engineered with form taking precedence over content. I do my level best to avoid that in my own work. But it also seems to me that this is actually a matter of taste. I can think of some puzzles I’ve solved where I’ve understood the technical skill being displayed without feeling that I’m enjoying myself, and seen the blogger here go into raptures at the astounding feat of setting. I tend to equate setters with different bands I like: Times editor Richard Rogan (formerly also Bannsider of the Indy) in that comes out as Bruce Springsteen & the E Street Band and Monk is Talking Heads. I love both of those bands inordinately, but they have very little in common in my mind beyond having electric guitars. There’s a setter I think of as Emerson, Lake and Palmer, whom I regarded as nothing but bombastic show-offs, but I’m not going to be so rude as to name him. For all I know, you may adore his puzzles. Certainly some people on 225 say they do.
Having seen a few of your blogs, I think you are a little ungenerous to setters who play music of a genre you don’t particularly care for. But that’s only my opinion, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with describing your personal reaction to a puzzle.
I don’t think that I have ever seen quite so many clues parsed incorrectly on a blog before. Ok some were quite tough, but others like 18a (a lovely clue) were quite easy. Surely if blogging is to have a future it has to be better than this.
Nick@24
Your comment suggests that you could do better. We are very humble but the other comments here are full of praise for the blog. To be honest,we have rather tired of this task as it strikes us as akin to looking into the toilet after one has finished doing ones business. We are therefore very happy to hand over to you. If you’d like to contact Gaufrid and take over from here, good luck. If you don’t and people see us here next week, we and everyone else will know that you are all mouth and no trousers.
Over to you, Nick.
I didn’t realise that we had to feel that we could do better before criticising anything, David, my apologies, I have clearly underestimated you.
Chalmie @23
I should say at the outset that Linda, the other part of our blogging double act, urges me to get a life and has gone to bed (it’s after midnight here), so the following opinions are wholly mine.
Inevitably was a slipshod choice of word. Mea culpa. Invariably might have been better. Please substitute one for the other. Furthermore I accept that there may be rare (but very rare) exceptions (which makes a nonsense of invariably, but there you go). How about ineluctably, or if not, usually?
I’m not familiar with the personalities concerned, but I see no reason for compilers to seek to saddle themselves with artificial constraints. It would be like Chris Waddle choosing to play a game carrying a 25kg pack. Fine if he could pull it off; otherwise the fans would rightly complain at his self-indulgence at the cost of his main objective.
We have no animus (or whatever is the opposite) regarding particular setters. I don’t know why you say that we are ungenerous to setters who play music of a genre we don’t particularly care for. I have looked at our previous blogs and it seems to me that we have gone out of our way to accentuate the positive, while drawing attention to other issues we were uncertain about. Both of us grew up (though our few friends would dispute that) in a competitive environment where results were all that counted. We look at each puzzle on its merits and we praise the good bits and question (not condemn) those which concern us.
Frankly we are finding this whole exercise a bit tiresome, being vilified every time we dare to express an opinion, and we hope that Nick @24 will take up the baton.
Nick@24 I see that you lack the cojones to take up the challenge. Nevertheless, please detail all the incorrect parsings and give us the correct answers so that we may learn from you and pass on the benefit of your explanations to others.
I don’t fear blogging in the slightest, David, though I don’t think that it is something that I would enjoy. I test a lot of puzzles and that keeps me busy.
I thought that you were being unfairly hard on this puzzle and in fact had made quite a few errors (the setter has already put you right), so I wondered how you might feel if harshly criticised. I am satisfied that you have answered that.
Didn’t get to this till today – I expected it to be hard (and was not disappointed), so I wanted to be able to give it some proper attention. I did finish it, though I needed help (THEVENIN) and missed some of the parsings (BEETHOVEN, OXY). 24A was strange – it seemed too easy – but was typically ingenious: TT race is such an obvious, familiar phrase that it’s hard to see the need to separate it (race is the definition, not TT race).
Thanks to David and Linda – a very tough assignment. And thanks also to IO for a terrific puzzle.
Best wishes, John and Jane.
Wow!
Tough challenge and not completed – got about 2/3 of the way through at 5 sittings so decided to call it a day.
I think that D&L have done an excellent job in filling in the blanks and deep respect to Io.
I have no opinion on what dictionary to use and think the debate is quite irrelevant.
At the end of the day, a clue is good if the answer, when revealed, is the only possible answer, no matter how obscure. Sometimes a little research adds to the enjoyment.
On the subject of which paper’s crosswords are more fun, I too find the discussion somewhat prejudiced. Some FT puzzles can be a hoot. And some setters can deliver dreary puzzles one day and highly entertaining ones the next.
And of course it also depends on one’s own state of mind.
So many thanks to bloggers, setter, and contributors. I’m not put off either this setter or the FT.
Thanks Io and D&L
Firstly congratulations guys on getting any sort of blog out that had the correct answers within that time frame. I started this one in August and carried it around it various degrees of completion up until BIFD the last two (BEHOLD and HIGHER, which turned out to be both wrong yesterday, some 3 months later). Found the NE corner very hard and it was the main cause of the extended elapsed time.
This would be by far the hardest daily puzzle that I’ve attempted this year, bordering on the impossible in places and those last two probably crossing the line in my opinion (heartiest congrats to those who solved it completely)! Still struggle to see what ‘skiffle’ has to do with the BEATLES and MIDAIR as ‘somewhere above’ is tenuous at best. Anyway it’s over now with 6 incorrect letters :(.
The theme was also way too subtle for this antipodean to get – but congrats on the anniversary chaps – must be nearly 5.5 years by now. 🙂
Having got the gripes out of the road, I did enjoy the rest of the puzzle which involved slowly extricating each answer one by one. A lot of new words – THEVENIN, TOO-TOO, DAVISON and SUTCLIFFE. I created BBC from lead letters of ‘best, band and Cream (itself)’ – the proper way is much better though.
If this fits into Chalmies definition of FT puzzles being easier than the other two papers, then I approach the next Enigmatist with a fair degree of trepidation. Still, overall, enjoyed this for what I was able to do and will look forward to the next battle with him !