Guardian 26,696 – Philistine

85 comments on “Guardian 26,696 – Philistine”

1. Thanks Philistine and Andrew
   An unusually quick solve for a Philistine, though I didn’t see the parsing of SIMULATION. All extremely enjoyable; my only minor disappointement is the repetition of some clue tricks. Favourite was BILLOWING.

2. I didn’t get round to parsing IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO either, though it was a write-in after getting RED HANDED and a few crossers.

3. What am I missing from 18,27? There seems to be an extra L in the answer not accounted for in the wordplay.

4. Steve B @3
   That’s why I didn’t manage to parse that one then! I’m joking – you seem to be right.

5. I got a bit confused by LAID and put in DIAL, which messed up BILLOWED and OFFICIAL. Sorted it out eventually. Nice clueing all round. Favourites were IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO, DERRING-DO, ON BEHALF OF and CANAPE. Many thanks to Philistine and Andrew.

6. What a coincidence to have another Sunni dictator only 5 days after the last one.

   Lovely puzzle, not too tricky (except for a couple of spiky places) but very inventive and a brilliant grid fill. Spent far too long on FJORD – thought there must be some river or lake in Jordan starting with “F” that meant “some” in English. Idiot.

   Thanks to setter and blogger.

7. I had FLOOD for a while and wondered why, before seeing the cleverly hidden FJORD.
   An enjoyable solve, although I did think that 6d was in rather poor taste.
   Thanks to setter and blogger.

8. Delightful puzzle, which I much enjoyed. Any crossword which combines oral sex with in flagrante delicto gets my vote (cue comments from folk who think these clues are tasteless, mainly retired Major-Generals with handlebar moustaches who live in Bexhill-on-Sea).

   Excellent surfaces and a good variety of clue types. Well done, Philistine, and thank you to Andrew for blogging.

9. The missing L in 18a is annoying. Otherwise good.

10. Thanks Andrew and Philistine. I found this difficult at first but then quite easy.

    But is there a redundant word in 18,27 across (IN)? Chambers gives only flagrante delicto. Latinists please help!

11. cholecyst @10
    Wikipedia suggests that if there is a redundant word, it is “delicto” rather than “in”:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_flagrante_delicto

12. A fantastic puzzle and a very helpful blog, thanks to both Philistine and Andrew.

    I must have seen DERRING-DO many times before, but dashed in DARING-DO, too short, so tried DAREING-DO, but it would not parse – resorted to the dictionary and found that this is all the fault of Spenser and Scott so did not feel quite so stupid.

    With IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO all I could think of was EL, homophone of ‘elle’, for ‘sweetheart’ to account for the second L.

13. Sorry to have missed the missing L in 18/27 – when I spotted INFLICT I wasn’t sure which L in the answer it gave – I didn’t realise it was both of them…

14. I took a while to get anywhere, but mostly enjoyed it in the end. I don’t like 20d though – it’s well-hidden because of the redundant “The”, which would usually rule out a hidden answer.

15. @10 the phrase seems to be IN “blazing offense” (from google, I’m hardly a latinist). So I think the IN is fine, like “in the act” in 10a. (and I never noticed the extra L).

    I recognised the sunni dictator, but had to redo the anagram!

    Interesting puzzle with its bits of multiple words and multiple indications. Like new toys, and I enjoyed playing with them.

    Lots of fun, many thanks Philistine and Andrew

16. Does IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO then indicate that Philistine has been caught in a misdeed, i.e. using the L twice?

17. What with 6d and 18,27, not to mention S(T)IMULATION, this could almost be a Cyclops offering from Private Eye. Solving it was a bit, um, interrupted, as I got almost nowhere early on, but starting again all the big clues on the left went in quickly and much else besides. SE corner was blank for a bit though; above-mentioned SIMULATION last to fall.

    Undoubtedly another goodie.

18. Thanks Philistine and Andrew.

    Like cyborg @14, I didn’t much like ON EDGE as there doesn’t seem to be a hidden indicator.

    I did like OVERSAW, SIMULATION & FJORD.

19. I was another who had FLOOD and didn’t notice the hidden word. Ah me! The rest of this was a great pleasure to do. Most of the approving comments have already been made so I won’t repeat them. LOI was EXAM which I don’t think was in “poor taste” Some people are easily offended it seems.
    Anyway, thanks Philistine.

20. Lovely puzzle, although I think that trying to make a 21a a double-wordplay clue made it unfair – if you read it as a “lift-and-separate” clue (as I did), then DIAL is a totally valid solution: “set call” and “back in Adelaide”. It’s only the crossers that tell you which of the readings are valid.

21. I visualise the typical Guardian setter as a repressed old man sitting in his common room or bed sit obsessed by sex and over stimulated by the sight of a young lady’s leg. Could we have a whip round to raise some funds so that they could get out and about a bit more into the fresh air and get over the schoolboy smut and misogyny that seems to infect so many of the puzzles both for their health and the peace of mind of the solvers.

    I should perhaps add that if anyone is contemplating the response of ‘if you don’t like, don’t do them’ that this is an incorrect line of thought.

    Very nice crossword otherwise which makes the vulgarity more of a pity.

22. I should have politely offered my thanks to Andrew for the blog.

23. Entertaining as ever from Philistine, miostly fairly straightforward. Last in was FJORD, liked that, RUDIMENTARY, DERRING DO and URGED.

    Thanks to Philistine and Andrew

24. Tom H @21 – what qualifies you to set yourself up as an arbiter of correctness? just wondering…

25. After lurking for a long time I can’t resist putting in my first two-penn’orth by saying to pa@19 that mentioning “poor taste” or “bad taste” in the 6d-ish context is in fact a very old fnar-fnar joke. Nice puzzle, but quite easy. Thanks to Andrew and Philistine.

26. This was tough but fun. I’m in the school of thought that the sophomoric humor adds a little color to what otherwise would be a drab exercise for middle-aged prudes, and that the people who object are largely looking for reasons to be offended. They’re kind of like the folks who write letters to the editor of their local paper to point out typographical errors.

    As has been pointed out, I think it’s a bit unfair that there was no hidden-answer indicator in ON EDGE. I BIFD that one. And I too had raised eyebrows over the missing L. Cheated on 5ac and 9ac, largely because I was running out of time.

27. beery hiker @24 – the recent confirmation from the Readers’ Editor that the crossword is most definitely the Guardian crossword and that solvers can expect the same standards therein as the rest of the paper/website provides a basis to oppose the “if you don’t like it, don’t do them” argument.

28. mrpenney @26, I think the missed L is on purpose, the L in FLAGRANTE doing double duty being a misdeed, IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO

29. Cookie @28
    That would be a sort of meta-clue……….

30. muffin @29, might ODD-JOB MAN also be a sort of meta-clue ?

31. beery hiker @24: old age? wisdom? why do you ask? Is there an implied criticism in your question?

    mrpenney@26: other forms of humour are available.

32. Cookie @30
    Yes, I suppose so, in a way, but it’s more of a “backwards” clue. Your idea of the double duty L being “in flagrante delicto” seems even further removed from a direct reading!

33. Anyone else buy the paper and notice the unfortunate line-break in 9a which rather gave the game away?

34. Paul @33 – yes, I was thinking of mentioning that…

35. Tom @31 – don’t worry, it was only a facetious comment from a libertarian Guardianista. In the case of 6d I agree that it went too far…

36. Thanks to Philistine and Andrew. I saw FJORD right off, but had to do a Google check for BILLOWED (Flower Pot Men was new to me). WIDE BOYS is not a US term but I knew it from a theatre review of an Elizabethan play performed by the RSC in modern dress.

37. Isn’t there rather more to a fjord than just water?

38. Loved this, but where is the indication that On Edge is hidden?

39. xjp @38 – it is implied by the possessive apostrophe in generation’s

40. Re extra l in 22,18. The note A in Solfage musical notation is represented by La, that works.

41. Sorry, that should be Solfege.

42. Lebon @40, that sounds right, well done !

43. … but only in C – I think that is too far-fetched

44. @Lebon

    If Philistine meant that then it was too good for me! I’m willing to accept that either a) he did, in which case hats off, or b) he didn’t and it was a genuine mistake, but a forgivable one.

    @Tom Hutton

    Having met several of them, I find your visualisation of the average Guardian setter far more rude and inappropriate than the clue for 6d. If you’re going to set yourself up as a crosswording Mary Whitehouse it would probably be a good idea to steer clear of personal insults.

45. I noticed the missing L for IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO, which otherwise would have been a favourite, but I’m not convinced by LA for A (sorry, Lebon). I wasn’t too keen on the repetition of the device in 5a, 14a and 23d. In a single clue, it is clever but by the third time it was a little disappointing. Even with those reservations, I enjoyed this puzzle.

    FJORD was my LOI after a long period of puzzlement, the Check button having told me that FLOOD was wrong. Once the penny dropped, it went onto my list of favourites, which also included GRUB, CANAPE and ODD-JOB MAN.

    Thanks to Philistine and Andrew.

46. Blimey, I’m surprised that anyone might still take offence at clues like 6d. I’m with MrP @ 26, an occasional clue like that (and goodness knows, we get a lot from Paul) livens things up a little and, for many of us, raises a smile.

47. If La for A is good enough for Julie Andrews its good enough for me.

48. TomHutton @21
    Philistine certainly doesn’t fit your image of a typical Guardian setter, and I suspect he sees more than just a bare female leg on a regular basis.

49. re Tom Hutton 21

    Thank you for reasonable and accurate comment. I am only bothering to add a comment, not to make this into an unnecessary discussion but to counter balance all the messages snorting that they love it. Tis infantile and unnecessary to use willie etc references. Crosswords are obsessive and a little barmy but one would like to think involve some intelligence.

50. Celia @49
    Why is any mention of sex and related body parts in clues “infantile”? 6d is a straightforward clue, just like any other. Adults can refer to sex without sniggering.

51. Really enjoyed this. Thanks Philistine and Andrew.

    I see clues like 6d as proof that this is a grown up crossword in a grown up newspaper where we aren’t all British and weird about natural acts. Would never see it in a tabloid newspaper.

    I also struggle with fjord as “water”. It is the coastline that makes it a fjord surely?

52. Just got off the phone to Slartibartfast. He says that in his dictionary “fjord” is defined as “a long, narrow arm of the sea bordered by steep cliffs, usually formed by glacial erosion” – as such it is clearly water, so 26 is kosher.

    Besides, if the clue referred to, say, “Jordan’s cleft” (thanks Brig) some of the natives might get a bit jumpy.

53. Mitz @52
    Well, he should know – his speciality, I seem to recall?

54. Are the people who find 6d perfectly acceptable familiar with the phrase used? If not, I suggest they Google it.

55. Hmm — I wonder whether one could sit down with a teenage offspring with this puzzle? With due respect to my editor, I fear I’m with Tom on this one

56. Oh for heavens sake.

    @rullytully – yes I’m sure that everyone, approving or not, is quite clear what the phrase in 6d means.

    @Pasquale – I’ve got two at home (aged 17 & 15) – neither have shown any interest in crosswords to date, but you never know: maybe this will help.

57. A nice puzzle from Philistine. Although the repeated use of the the hidden and end of word device was a bit of a niggle.

    Also the puzzle did succumb rather quickly once one had solved 10A.

    I personally wasn’t offended or particularly amused by any of the surfaces although I’m sure nothing appeared in the clues that wouldn’t have been allowed elsewhere on the website or in the paper. My only criteria for criticism is that the surfaces at least a little sense which they did.

    Surely the arbiter of all things is our esteemed editor who has previously studied this in depth and condones the sexual content and could certainly explain the missing L in the wordplay of 18,27 😉

    An enjoyable if somewhat brief interlude.

    Thanks to Andrew and Philistine

58. Oh dear rullytully @54

    The phrase you are referring to was actually used in hit single which reached number 10 in the UK hits charts on 27th May 1973. (And the world hasn’t ended yet 🙂 )

    Number 6 was “Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree” and number 2 was “Can the Can”. (a very racy chart!)

    No prizes for naming the single by the way.

59. Pasquale @55
    Well, “teenage” covers quite a wide range. A 13yo, probably not. For a 19yo, I think it would depend on the relationship. I think it’s a reasonable assumption that most 19yos would be familiar with that term already.

    I think that I might have felt awkward about doing this puzzle with my elderly mother, who might well not have known it, so I do think you have a valid point about solving clues like that with other people in general (office colleagues, perhaps?), not just children.

60. BNTO @58
    I didn’t remember Leonard Cohen’s “Chelsea Hotel #2” in the charts! (Oh, it wasn’t him – it was Lou Reed.)

61. A message to the people who were offended by 6 down. It’s all a matter of taste. I rather like vulgar clues and would like to see more, not fewer – that’s the sort of chap I am (infantile, in your view, no doubt). But I don’t presume to impose my preference on you, so do me and my fellow degenerates the courtesy of not imposing your views on us.

62. David @61
    I don’t really want to come down on either side in this discussion. However I would just like to mention that there are other crosswords (Viz, Private Eye etc.) that would satisfy your desire for vulgarity.

63. Me @62
    That comment seems rather equivocal. To explain, I would say that I wasn’t offended, but could easily see how others might be.

64. David @61 see previous comment @27.

65. David @61, I do not think that all the people who commented on 6d were offended by the clue as such, but they were probably concerned that others might be.

66. What pusillanimity. Not in front of the servants or children. It’s a crossword. It is supposed to be fun (remember that word?)

67. David @66, it is not a case of pusillanimity, it is a case of decency. The clue did not offend me, but a line has to be drawn somewhere as far as the Guardian goes. The crosswords can be great fun without sexual references.

68. I remember a Paul crossword where he managed to insert lots of expletives, the only conplaint was from the Daily mail. Can anyone supply with the crossword number?.

69. Muffin @ 53
    I do hope you were referring to Mitz’s friend. Jordan certainly isn’t my speciality.

70. Yes, free speech must prevail and who has the right to say we shouldn’t be allowed to have a good old schoolboy giggle at a perfectly good oral sex joke?

    Just as no serious lover of free speech would complain if the compiler’s being a bit un-PC by using words like “Chinaman” or “dyke” or “cripple” – oh, wait a minute…

    When it comes to free speech, it’s all or nothing. You can’t sneer at someone who’s taken offence one day and object to something that offends you the next.

71. Pusillanimity, a new word to me!
    It’s not even Pasquale who introduced it here.

    That said, the same Pasquale and Tom Hutton are more on my wavelength than some others when it comes to ‘smut’.
    However, I’m not offended at all by clues like 6d.
    Actually, I think 6d – from a cryptic point of view – is quite a clever clue.
    One has to split oral/sex to make it work.
    For me, more important than a good surface reading [which should only be a bonus – not unimportant, though].
    But we’re all different, aren’t we?

    Jenny’s comment on the repetition of a similar device was something that was a point for me today.
    But hey, it’s Philistine and this is one of his trademarks.

    At the Cambridge S&B someone told me that clues should be as short or concise as possible.
    While I do not fully agree [I think there should be no padding], one may see 21ac and 24d, in particular, as a kind of overkill.

    Of the hiddens 26ac (FJORD) and 20d (ON EDGE) were great, while 9ac was unfortunate in the paper/pdf version.

    Did I like this crossword?
    Yes, I did.
    Philistine is clearly a setter who puts a lot of thought into his clues.

    18,27 is surely a mistake but I know all too well that things like this happen every now and then.

    Very enjoyable crossword, all in all.
    Fun to solve.

    Thanks Andrew & Philistine.

72. re 6dn

    Much Ado About Not Very Much

    You can tell which camp I’m in by my appreciation of BtB’s comment @ 25

73. Sex is part of life and no reason not to include its vocabulary just as much as terminology from various sports and games. Everyone seems to be protesting on behalf of some hypothetical Mrs Grundy, not as having personally suffered a fit of the vapours at the mention.

74. Just to recap, the original critical comment @21 was not based on offence but sadness. Some of us find the preoccupation of some setters with “it” (as we are usually required to call it) at best tiresome and at worst indicative of a regressive attitude to sex, gender and equality. 5d was in the former category. But the preoccupation is a bit like the bloke at the office party with a penchant for dropping his trousers once sufficiently drunk. Some may find it hilarious. Others may be concerned to ensure that the servants are not watching. But the concerns of others are about what would motivate anybody to find such behaviour diverting.

75. Van Winkle @74

    Did you really say

    But the concerns of others are about what would motivate anybody to find such behaviour diverting.

    Why oh why should anyone be “concerned” or even comment on what would motivate someone to find something diverting? Firstly I’m not sure it actually means anything.

    Surely one either finds something diverting or one doesn’t. I’m not sure one can be motivated to do so. (Or perhaps you’re referring to peer group pressure?)

    Anyway I find your comment at best patronising which in my book is far far worse than any perceived obscenity!

76. Jovis @72 – well said! However the freedom of speech we cherish has to include freedom to express righteous indignation, and I agree that once we start censoring we are on a slippery slope…

77. Re 6d, I just could not resist finally saying that “giving head” will no doubt leave a bad taste in someone’s mouth!

78. Flavia @73, the Guardian already draws the line at a certain C word. I find this action an insult to women and have no objection to the word itself, there is no other to replace it. However, this demonstrates that a line is drawn and that ‘free speech’ is not allowed.

79. Nice one rullytully.

    Me and the missus (both over 60) thought the clue in question was rather derring do. Such a good clue though that we shall pass it onto other mature intelligent people who enjoy a giggle.

80. Living as I do in the land of sex-obsessed Puritans across the Atlantic, I certainly did raise an eyebrow at 6d – not because I took offense, but because one would never see that sort of clue in an American newspaper. But then, American crosswords are generally far inferior anyway!

    Concerning the use of “La” to mean the note A (which has been proposed as an explanation for the otherwise missing L in IN FLAGRANTE DELCITO), this is standard usage in both French and Italian, and thus is regularly encountered by any classical musician. A trumpet in A, for instance, would be referred to in French as “trompette en La”, while the direction in Italian for a timpani player to tune a drum to A would be “muta in LA”. Non-musicians might not be expected to know this level of detail, but anyone who buys recordings of classical music has likely encountered the same nomenclature applied to the keys of works (la mineur, la maggiore, etc.).

81. All of this regarding “La” was in response to the commenter who pointed out that from a solfege perspective, La does not necessarily mean A. That’s true if one is using moveable Do, but in the contexts I mentioned above, La always means A.

82. I’m late getting to this, but here it is anyway. I find the mention of “misogyny” (@21) in the context of 6D to be extremely odd. Vulgar, certainly, but not a hint of misogyny. Why, there need not be a woman involved in the act in question at all! (Or so I’ve heard.)

    (You can put me down as a pro-vulgar-humor vote, for what it’s worth. Like Chris Baum @80, I live in a country where that would never fly in a respectable newspaper, but I think that’s just silly of us.)

    I enjoyed this puzzle a great deal. Like others, I missed the parsing of SIMULATION and didn’t notice the extra L in IN FLAGRANTE DELICTO. Thanks to Philistine and Andrew!

83. Thanks Andrew and Philistine.

    I did enjoy this but needed your help to parse SIMULATION.

    My enjoyment was slightly marred by:
    3 X hidden words – FJORD, LAID, and ON EDGE;
    The return of DICTATORIAL SUNNI so soon;
    The extra ‘L’ in 18/27; and
    The rather lame DEFENCE.

    But did enjoy the clever constructions.

84. I agree entirely with jennyk@ 48.
    Her comments @50 suggests she is more familiar with Philistine
    than most of you!

85. Thanks Philistine and Andrew

    Found this an interesting puzzle where it seems that there were more than usual clues in which I had not parsed them correctly or not at all – didn’t see the word separation with DE FENCE, had just flipped ‘no’ instead of the last letters of ”nO certaiN’ at 13d, read 17,11 as a cryptic definition, just missed parsing 19d at all and didn’t see the second part of 24d.

    Was initially surprised on reading 6d, but certainly took no offence from it – quite a clever construction when you think about it. Thought that SIMULATION was also very good when I finally saw it. Was another who wrote in DIAL first until BILLOWED fixed it. Didn’t notice the missing L at 18, 27 either – in fact was quite pleased to construct the word play for it anyway.

    Finished with that as my second last in – had to go back and finish CANAPÉ after that.

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