Some lovely clues here, but we found this puzzle very tough, which I imagine will be the case for many solvers. The special instructions were:
Definitions in nine clues lead to solutions (one of two words, one of three, one hyphenated) that are to be entered in the grid with 7 24 16. Their wordplay and indicated lengths refer to the required grid entries.
7 24 16 turned out to be NEITHER HERE NOR THERE, so if you solved the clue from the definition part, you’d have to remove either HERE or THERE from the word or words before entering it into the grid. What wasn’t clear to me (since it’s very unusual in crosswords at the Guardian prize level of difficulty) was that the resulting grid entries wouldn’t be words; they’re nonsense apart from 9a. As well as this difficulty, there were a few things that struck me as being rather obscure (although that’s always a very personal thing) like: CYTHEREAN, DEHISCENT, ULEMA and SMOTHERED MATE.
Nonetheless, there are some very nice clues here, and theme is impressive. Thank-you, Imogen.
Across
7, 24, 16. Nowhere is unimportant (7,4,3,5)
NEITHER HERE NOR THERE
Double definition: “Nowhere” and “unimportant”
8. Particle of iron needing minor change (7)
FERMION
FE = “iron” + (MINOR)*
Definition: “Particle”
9. Colour associated with Aphrodite (4)
CYAN (from CYTHEREAN)
CYAN = “Colour”
Definition: “associated with Aphrodite”
10. In modest clothing, greetings bursting out (9)
DEHISCENT
HIS = “greetings” (more than one “Hi!”) in DECENT = “modest”
Definition: bursting out (typically either of a plant or wounds, which I’ve spared you a link to)
12. In the dark, guide just terribly defective (5)
USTTE from USHERETTE
I think there must be a mistake here – it looks like a hidden answer [j]UST TE[rribly], but I don’t see how “defective” indicates a hidden answer. I don’t think “bits falling off the words” is good enough…
Definition: “In the dark, guide”
13. Tight-fisted party — in Britain, the left (8)
NEARSIDE
NEAR = “Tight-fisted” + SIDE = “party”
Definition: “in Britain, the left”
15. Like some friends to be given food, including slice of apple (4)
FEAD from FEATHERED
FED = “to be given food” including A[pple]
Definition: “Like some friends” (referring to “our feathered friends”)
17. One swimming alone? (4)
SOLE
Double definition: “One swimming” and “alone”
18. What the Observer does: keep following the Guardian (8)
WATCHDOG
A nice clue: WATCH = “What the Observer does” + DOG = “keep following”
Definition: “the Guardian”
20. A day good to be in (5)
AMONG
A + MON = “day” + G = “good”
Definition: “in”
21. Caught with drink, one’s beaten (5,4)
SNARE DRUM
SNARED = “Caught” + RUM = “drink”
Definition: “one’s beaten”
22. Don’t reveal much at first — try to find out? (4)
MASK
M[uch] = “much at first” + ASK = “try to find out?”
Definition: “Don’t reveal”
25. One now not seen in pub, having gone missing, drunk? (7)
ASHTRAY
ASHTRAY sounds like “astray” slurred = “having gone missing, drunk?”
Definition: “One now not seen in pub” (since the smoking ban, thank goodness)
Down
1. A number of girls live very superficially (4)
BEVY
BE = “live” + V[er]Y = “very superficially”
Definition: “A number of girls” – Chambers says a bevy is “A company or flock (of larks, quails, swans, roes or ladies)”.
2. Homosexual couple adopt son, just landed here? (8)
STANSTED
STAN + TED = “Homosexual couple” around S = “son”
Definition: “just landed here?”
3. Sound of gong and fiddle (6)
MEDDLE
MEDDLE sounds like “medal” = “gong”
Definition: “fiddle”
4. Sunday get away, taking in a picture (8)
SEASCAPE
S = “Sunday” + ESCAPE = “get away” around A
Definition: “picture”
5. Fragments making appearance on board vessel (6)
SMIENS from SMITHEREENS
MIEN = “appearance” in SS = “on board vessel”
Definition: “Fragments”
6. Heavy drinker gets in another round — hence black mark? (4)
SOOT
SOT = “Heavy drinker” around O = “round”
Definition: “black mark?”
11. No agriculturalist, old tribesman diverts great river (9)
HUNTERGAR from HUNTER-GATHERER
HUN = “old tribesman” + (GREAT)* + R
Definition: “No agriculturalist”
12. United male assembly (5)
ULEMA
U = “United” + (MALE)*
Definition: “assembly” – Chambers says an ulema is “The body of professional theologians, expounders of the law, in a Muslim country”
14. Leaders of domestic football get behind Jeremy’s anthem (5)
DFLAG from THE RED FLAG
D[omestic] F[ootball] = “Leaders of domestic football” + LAG = “get behind”
Definition: “Jeremy’s anthem”, referring to Jeremy Corbyn and the song “The Red Flag”
16. Extremely desirable fox that is in favour (2,3,3)
TO DIE FOR
TOD = “fox” + IE = “that is” + FOR = “in favour”
Definition: “Extremely desirable”
17. Most made out knight’s winning move (8)
SMODMATE from SMOTHERED MATE
(MOST MADE)*
Definition: “knight’s winning move”, apparently
19. Cable to our boss patiently worked on (6)
COAXED
COAX = “cable” (as in “coaxial cable”) + ED = “our boss” (the editor)
Definition: “patiently worked on”
20. In St John’s Island, head right to the end for air (6)
ATMOSP from ATMOSPHERE
PATMOS = “St John’s Island” (where St John the Evangelist wrote Revelation) with P moved to the end (“head right to the end”)
Definition: “air”
21. Relative defends European views, not orthodox (4)
SIES from HERESIES
SIS = “Relative” around E = “European”
Definition: “views, not orthodox”
23. Pour water on small tree (4)
SOAK
S = “small” + OAK = “tree”
Definition: “Pour water on”
One of the best for a long time; I’m quite unhappy with Prizes are easier than many of the weekday Cryptics.
Thanks mhl and Imogen. There have been a couple of more innovative prize crosswords recently which to me is very welcome.
In 12ac I took the “in” at the beginning of the clue to be the hidden answer indicator, but that does mean there’s no clear distinction between the word play and the definition.
Please! if you have any sympathy for my wailings please communicate. Flavia -you do not need to emphasise your disagreement with me! (It maybe that your comment further traumatised me, standing alone as initial response). I am more than impressed by you, and by mhl.
I found this one nasty and ‘unfair’. Not just some difficult bits but that the solutions needed to be changed to make entries that are nonsense words (bar 9a). If one had to work out that subtracting here/there was needed, and then obtain real words, from real solutions, then the puzzle would be a treat.
Yes?
All I can say is that I love the Guardian cryptics, I normally love Imogen’s puzzles and I normally finish them too; but this one I gave up on after half a dozen clues – which I suspect the setter would be disappointed to learn.
Well done to anyone who finished it though – I doff my cap to you… and maybe there does need to be the occasional puzzle which defeats the likes of me, so that you can be stretched!
Thanks mhl. Got 7,24, 16 soon enough but agree with those above that this verged on the unfair: I must have read the special instructions ten times without satisfaction. Different if the word solutions had been in inverted commas, and if the parenthesis had gone on to say ‘and the remaining SIX are single words’. I could see that SMIENS was right/nonsense; with a few nonsenses left I gave up.
I threw this away in disgust. If I wanted to do a crossword in which I was required to enter “non-words”, I wouldn’t be doing the Guardian.
I agree with Celia and Molonglo. This was frustrating and daft despite some very good proper clues.
Thanks mhl (and to Imogen for a challenging puzzle)
I found this the most difficult for quite some time.
I usually guess some of the solutions when I have a few crossers in place but the non-words and not knowing where they were at first made this tricky!
Chapeau, Imogen!
I agree that the instructions could have been clearer, but perhaps the setter (or editor?) didn’t want to deter solvers. The device is one familiar in more advanced cryptics, although even then there is often an indication that grid entries may not be real words.
My main gripe was with the clue to ULEMA, which seems to lack a definition. I think “assembly” is the anagram indicator (there is nothing else) and as the quote from the dictionary makes clear, it’s not a particularly accurate definition, even if the intention was that it should be doing double duty – which would be unacceptable, in my view.
I think muffin has summed this up brilliantly in a single sentence. My only regret is that I persevered too long before throwing it away.
A great puzzle.
Stop moaning you “stick in the muds”!
Oh dear, having to enter “non-words” in the grid! Where in crosswordland does it say this is not allowed. The setter gets an empty grid and fills it in. The solver has to replicate the filled grid from an empty one. (Oh and the setter gives some clues which should be fair!) That’s it.
All the solutions are real words. You were given fair instructions on what to do with the solutions to enter them in the grid. This is standard practise and very common in advanced crosswords. (Oh my god, how frightening 😉 )
Get over yourselves.
Thanks to mhl and Imogen
BNTO
There are crosswords where it isn’t unusual to have to enter non-words, I agree. I don’t attempt those, and I don’t expect to see one turning up in the Guardian.
Muffin @12
Why not in the Guardian. It was a prize/bank holiday puzzle after all. Plenty of free time to try something different surely.
BNTO
I like crosswords where I solve the clue and write the answer into the grid. I don’t like ones where the answer has to be mucked about with before entering it. A common comment on complainers about Monday Rufus puzzles (for example) is “if you don’t like his style, don’t do the puzzle”. That’s the approach I take to “tricksy” puzzles, yet here I was, presented with one in my daily paper, with the “Special instructions” so opaque that I didn’t realise that I was attempting one of these when I started.
I understand your preference Muffin.
I have the same feeling about Rufus Mondays but I have to grin and bear it almost every week!
The whole pleasure of “Special Instructions” is that they should be rather obtuse. That’s the pleasure of them. They’re an extra level of obfuscation (I wanted to say “crypticness” but it doesn’t exist!) One has to make assumptions and then step into the void without any certainty.
Great fun.
At last, a return to some proper crosswording!
Each to their own, Brendan 🙂
I agree that this was a pretty tough challenge – on the Saturday I was only able to give it a few odd half hours, and had 8 or 9 of the unthemed solutions to show for it. As soon as I looked again on Sunday morning, the theme revealed itself. Still took some time to finish after that, but a very rewarding solve. Some of the references sailed over my head – to me St Johns Island is either Newfoundland or Antigua…
Thanks to Imogen and mhl
Thanks to setter and blogger, and also to muffin and BNTO for a civilised argument. I struggled and ended up two solutions short (12a and 12d) so thanks for the solutions to those. Hard work, a bit unsatisfactory for me (but maybe because I didn’t finish?)
I failed to finish this puzzle, but I can’t agree with those that are complaining – I thought it quite brilliant and only wish that I had had more time to devote to it.
I don’t mind ‘non-words’ fairly clued, but the instructions were unintelligible to me. I had a go but only got a few answers in before running into a state of too much confusion about the setter’s intentions. So I gave up.
The last time I looked, the crosswords in the Guardian weren’t compulsory, and no one was doing time in Belmarsh for not completing the Prize. People who don’t like the puzzles that have been set could always go for a brisk walk or read a book. Better for them and, frankly, better for the rest of us.
Readers cannot have failed to notice that online crossword solvers are available which allow a form of assistance. For that matter, there are hard copy dictionaries which do the same sort of thing. One types in “A – O – O – L” and up comes “A X O L O T L”. I do not criticise people who use these aids to reaching a solution, but the form of this puzzle effectively prevents that course. One actually had to work out the answers. I rather liked it.
Thanks Imogen and mhl.
I couldn’t be boed with this crossword, too busy over Christmas and the New Year cooking etc., but for those who had a real holiday, and the time, should think it could be fun. I had thought of saving it until later, but see we are being challenged again today, so think I will move on…
I think it should have been “bod” with this crossword, Cookie!
Yes, muffin, noticed that just after I posted, no good with special instructions…
…incidentally, the special instructions for today’s Prize Puzzle seem not to be clearly worded.
I’m with Brendan (NTO) on this. It was certainly the hardest puzzle for a long time, and threatened to end my record of completing every prize crossword for at least the last 5 years. Got there in the end, though the smothered mate took a long time to get. The difficulty was matched by a great deal of satisfaction once I’d worked out what was going on.
I see no reason at all why non-words should not be acceptable, and I didn’t find the instructions too opaque. Perhaps it helped that the first themed clue I got was Jeremy Corbyn’s The Red Flag, which gave the game away.
Many thanks, Imogen, (and mhl), and please keep the off-beat challenges coming.
Thanks for a great blog, mhl.
I’m sorry so many didn’t finish / enjoy this puzzle. It had me perplexed and infuriated over the last three answers for the whole of Saturday, which is how I like it in a Prize. As so often happens, they fell into place fairly easily on Sunday morning.
I’ll admit that I was very lucky in recognising St John’s Island in the first of the themed clues: it happened to be the easiest, since the definition and wordplay were clear and ‘here’ was simply tacked onto the end, which made it obvious what was going on and gave me the answer to 7,24,16, which I thought was a very clever clue. SMI[there]ENS and US[here]TTE, for instance, took much longer to see!
IW @22: I confess to having typed MOST MADE + HERE / THERE} into an anagram solver to find SMOTHERED MATE, an expression I’d never heard of!
Many thanks, Imogen – I thoroughly enjoyed the struggle.
Great sense of achievement for completing this – but it did take me all week. A good challenge for the holiday period so thank you Imogen. Still don’t understand Stan and Ted in 2d.
This took me a long time to complete partly, because of the special instructions, which, while not quite incomprehensible,were not especially clear,and partly because some of the non-special clues were rather difficult e.g. FERMION,ULAMA. That said, there were some goodies here- STANSTED, SNARE DRUM,TO DIE FOR and,once I’d sussed it out, DFLAG.
I’m in two minds about this puzzle. I can’t say I enjoyed it but I wasn’t going to let it beat me and there was a certain satisfaction in finally completing it. It seems a little churlish to complain that this puzzle was too hard, when almost every week someone complains that the prize puzzles are too easy!
So, a reluctant thank you to Imogen.
It must have taken MumboJumbo(?) ages to type that now-deleted post!
Only a few months in to attempting the Prize, so I didn’t know better than to keep plugging away at this one until Thursday when the last few finally clicked into place. Thanks to Imogen for the challenge, to mhl for unravelling the parsing, and to all for the comments and debate. Hoping Shed will prove a little easier today.
Thanks to Imogen and mhl. I kept chipping away on this puzzle throughout the week and did get at least some of the here/there solutions, but USHERETTE, SMOTHERED MATE, and HUNTER GATHERER defeated me (with the latter I somehow convinced myself that the answer was Heidegger). I also failed to get ASHTRAY and wrongly assumed that item was part of the special group. Tough going for me, but no complaints.
I agree with mhl that the use of “defective” in the clue for USTTE seems to be an incorrect containment indicator. If the answer had been a real word it would have been only marginally fairer, and I think the clue should have been changed at the editing stage.
A superb crossword well worth the effort which it took. Thank you to MHL and the setter.
Got FERMION straight away and thought I might have a chance but few other clues yielded and the special instructions made no sense. The *Y** colour had to be CYAN but why? Alas this could have been the pointer. And maybe I would have got further had I known that some non-words have to be entered.
But no matter. It wasn’t for me but for a lucky few it was a stunner. I finished today’s prize Shed, also with special instructions, in a couple of short sessions. Maybe next week there will be complaints at having such an easy Saturday. We often have a moan on this site about the Guardian’s crossword editor but it seems to me that switching the difficulty level for the prize is something he gets right.
Admirable puzzle. Helped for me by deriving theme from Patmos early on. The instructions seemed quite clear to me in terms of their intention, but obviously their meaning had to be revealed.
Surely 12a would have been clear enough without including DEFECTIVE at all?
Thanks to mhl & Imogen (who is always good value).
Between not entirely understanding the instructions and not seeing 7 24 16, I realised last weekend I was going to struggle with this one. I did look at it on most days since, but with other challenging cryptics this week and a lot of other thing to do, I only had about half a dozen solutions entered by this morning.
I took another look at it before coming to the blog and finally got NEITHER HERE NOR THERE. At last I knew what I was supposed to do with the themed clues, if only I knew which they were. I got quite a few more solutions entered before I needed help, at which point I asked DH to read the blog explanations for me. By bouncing ideas off him (and through him, the blog) and getting yea or nay, I did get all the remaining answers, though I realised when finally reading the blog myself that I had forgotten to parse ATMOSP.
It’s undoubtedly an impressive puzzle. I share mhl’s doubt about the cryptic grammar of 12a, but other than that the clues seem fair. I’m still trying to decide whether the satisfaction of completing as much of it as I did outweighs a week of frustration. 🙂
Thanks, Imogen and mhl.
Lovely summing up, jennyk.
Eileen @ 28
Ego te absolvo.
Bridgesong@9 re ULEMA: In the clue, ‘assembly’ is both the definition and what I believe is called an anagrind.
Getting the letters US….TTE of ‘usherette’ from ‘just terribly defective’ seemed a very witty bit of clueing, the letters used being not just a defective something or other but a terribly defective ditto!
Sad to see so many adverse reactions to having to enter non-words – not a lot of candidates here for a Listener puzzle then, or an AZED. But I’m biased; I finished Imogen’s offering and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Buon anno a tutti!
Great puzzle- no complaints whatsoever.
But the Genius was just that- didnt stand a chance.
And somewhere in between- Serpent’s EV which I made a stab at.
I’m with Eileen @ 28 on this – I thought it was great.
It may be a truism, but I think a lot of the responses to this kind of puzzle depends on the temperament of the solver. I’m perfectly happy to struggle over something I can’t understand, rather than thinking, as others apparently do, that “I SHOULD be able to understand this!” So I don’t mind at all when setters bend the rules (e.g. using non-words as in this puzzle): as far as I’m concerned, part of the game is to work out the rules.
As I remember, I completed it apart from US(HERE)TTE. Many thanks indeed to Imogen for her sterling efforts, and to mhl.
I’m with muffin all the way. Hated it and got to the point where I didn’t know what to put in the grid or where when I had solved a clue
I think I should say that I can see that this was a very clever crossword – but really not to my taste at all. Not Imogen’s fault, just not my preference.
I quite enjoyed this, but failed to get USTTE – mainly because I didn’t have enough confidence in CYAN, STANSTED and ULEMA to actually write them in. Needed to come here for the parsing.
I don’t generally like, as someone said earlier, having to muck about with an answer before I can put it in the grid and thus avoid EV, Listener etc, so this must have been at the easier end of “mucking about with the answer” (MOWTA) clues or I’m sure I wouldn’t have got as far as I did!
This was indeed a difficult one but, after almost giving up, once the theme came to me it became both solvable and quite enjoyable. Thank you Imogen & mhl.
As I’ve said before, one of the things I most like about crosswords is their being a means of learning new terms. “Smothered mate” was an example of this; managed it from the wordplay, then was surprised to have my answer confirmed by Chambers. Blow me if it wasn’t the answer to a question on University Challenge a few days later; none of the team got it, neither did my chess playing husband – it gave me great delight to astound him by coming out with the correct answer so quickly, so thanks again Imogen!
Thanks mhl.
Failed by a long margin.
I didn’t get NEITHER HERE NOR THERE – which I’m kicking myself for – and that was that for me.
Surely calling it a Crossword means it should contain words! – not random letters.
So little joy for me on this – but huge respect to anyone who completed it.