Guardian 27,156 / Imogen

63 comments on “Guardian 27,156 / Imogen”

1. Thanks Imogen and Eileen

   Imogen isn’t generally one of my favourite setters, but I enjoyed this one (though I did find it difficult). Big smiles at CO-LANDER and BIG BERTHA. AL DESKO was new but amusing too.

   Our illustrious editor seems to have overlooked two clues that might have appeared in other recent crosswords; SHERLOCK amongst the “solvers” and CAR POOL, in which the construction was seen in this week’s Quiptic.

   I didn’t fully parse ELAPSE (I wondered if there might be a mistake, and the “snake” was supposed to be ASP too), or ABNORMAL.

2. Elaps is a snake

3. Yes, a real challenge today! A lot of staring was involved before I even got one solution, but it was a great puzzle and I particularly enjoyed AL DESKO (like Eileen I had never heard of this), COLANDER (for a time I tried to shoehorn LANCE into this – the cycling Armstrong) and ORIONS BELT. I’d also never heard of GROGRAM. Many thanks to Imogen and Eileen.

4. This was all pretty sneaky, but just on the side of enjoyable rather than frustrating. Couldn’t parse elapse – thanks Eileen for your version which would have satisfied me, but I’ll go for Dis’s snake.
   First one in was Al desko, which I’d never heard of but was delightfully inevitable. I also liked Philip, for the funny split, and colander.
   Thanks Imogen, Eileen

5. Imogen was coming from some unusual angles i thought , so a toughie. Got there without managing to explain defence or elapse. Delighted to learn buttle is a verb. Sherlock i liked

6. I think BUTTLE was probably coined by P.G.Wodehouse, wasn’t it?

7. Thank you, Dis @2. I’ll amend the blog.

8. Before I had solved BUTTLE I had thought of BUTLED (one T – surely more logical?) for 24a.

9. A veritable plethora of clever clues – many thanks Imogen!

10. I’d say elaps was an archaic term for a genus of snakes rather than ‘a snake’ which makes the clue a bit of a stretch.

    Clues for 28 and 11,25 make me think the setter either ran out of time or couldn’t really be bothered but I’m willing to forgive on the basis of 6 & 32.

11. Thanks Imogen for a tough challenge as usual.

    Thanks Eileen: ‘I entered only a few answers on the first run through and I thought I might be in for a rough time. Well said, so my computer had to solve most of this, not helped by me not knowing GROGRAM, AL DESKO and ELAPS (but it’s in Chambers;) past my pay-grade really.

    There were, however, some very good clues, such as those for BIG BERTHA, COLANDER and ECOTOURS.

12. P.S. As 13,1 is given as (7), I guess it should be CARPOOL, which is how it’s spelled in my ODE, although not that way in Chambers.

13. A thoroughly enjoyable challenge and many thanks for the explanation of DEFENCE & COLANDER which I think I could have sat here for the rest of the year and not got. AL DESKO & GROGRAM were new to me but clear enough from the cluing.

14. Feeling chuffed as I think this is the first Imogen I’ve finished. The SW corner stumped me for a long time – Rondeaux, grogram and Al desko are all new to me.

15. 7A sent me to the Dictionary of Ships and the Sea to check a memory, and there it was. In 1740 Admiral Vernon ordered that the navy rum ration should be watered, in an attempt to reduce drunkenness. His nickname was Old Grog, from the material (grogram) of his boatcloak, and diluted rum became known as grog. This puzzle provided a good sober experience, even if I did miss SHERLOCK, so thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen.

16. This puzzle was painfully difficult for me. I gave up after one hour, failing to solve 11/25, 24a, 24d, 28a, 32a, 30d.

    Of the ones I solved (mainly through sheer dumb luck and a lot of guesswork plus use of the check button), I could not parse 16a, 29d, 22d, 27a, 12a, 3d, 5d, 16d, 23a.

    New words for me were GROGRAM, RONDEAUX, BUTTLE.

    All in all, it was a pretty bad/sad start to my day and I hope for better success in other activities today.

    Thanks Eileen and setter.

17. Thank you Imogen, I think, and definitely thank you Eileen.

    Wow, that was hard. Stupidly got tied up at 10a trying to make OLDHAT out of Oldham for ‘retro’, and it is two words anyway. Managed to finish in the end, but failed to fully parse ABNORMAL and SHERLOCK, and parsed ELAPSE as Eileen did.

    The clues for COLANDER, BAILEY BRIDGE, BIG BERTHA and AL DESKO were great.

18. (Harhop @15, thanks for that, I always wondered about the origin of the word ‘grog’ – got rather confused with GROSGRAM since I, like Eileen, call the cloth ‘grosgrain’, but it is in the COED.]

19. Mant thanks for parsing of COLANDER-croosers and the word strain led to the answer but trying to balance Buzz, Lance, Louis etc did my head in so i waited for this blog.

20. I wonder if anyone else was thrown by an alternate answer for 30 down: I spent a while trying to fit “bind”, i.e. BIND[i], convincing myself that it was a sort of synonym for check.

21. CARPOOL. Surely it’s a drivers’ share rather than workers’?

22. Tough but satisfying with so many good clues, any of which could be picked as favourites. BUTTLE was fun (yes, Jason@6, sounds as though it was coined for or by Jeeves) and COLANDER brought a smile once I’d twigged. I love AL DESKO which I’ve been (over)using to describe my default lunching practice since being introduced to the term in a cryptic a year or so ago.

    Thank you to Imogen and Eileen

23. Very hard, often slow going, but with enough rewards on the way to make it worthwhile: ALPACA, AL DESKO, ABNORMAL and COLANDER shine out. GROGRAM was one of those annoying ones where, left with GROG*A*, it’s just a matter of trying consonants until something vaguely sensible looms up. Yes, I tried groglam first. Thought the def bit of CARPOOL was dodgy, as per Crossbencher @21.

24. Thanks to Imogen and Eileen. Tough going but certainly fair cluing. I had the same problems as those already mentioned with GROGRAM and ELAPSE and also with ABNORMAL, but I much enjoyed learning AL DESKO.

25. I haven’t had time to look at this one yet and I’m trying hard not to see any answers while I ask if any one can tell me how to get the numbers for each comment for use when commenting eg Muffin@3? The numbers haven’t appeared on my screen since the change in format though others still seem to be getting them. I get to the site by Googling “guardianfifteensquared” on my Samsung Galaxy Tab A which uses Android.

26. Pino @25
    Unfortunately, the WordPress plugin that generates the mobile view doesn’t support comment numbering. If you wish to see the numbering you need to scroll down to the bottom of the page and select desktop view. If required, you can then return to the mobile view by selecting mobile at the bottom of the page.

27. Stared for ages with one completed entry. Then they started to come slowly but surely. Great clues and some new words too. Thanks to everyone.

28. Hi Robi @12 – thanks for that – blog amended. [I’ve been out to lunch.]

    Re AL DESKO: I’ve just found that the Indy’s Mudd [our Paul] clued it as ‘Negotiation of deals OK where working lunch taken? (2,5)’ in October 2015.

29. Thanks Eileen, like you I didn’t have many after the Acrosses and only a few more after the Downs but I ran out of time and patience soon after and resorted to aids for 3 or 4 to keep moving. There were several clues that seemed unnecessarily devious. ELAPS for snake? And BL for law degree? I am sure it exists but I have never seen it, plus I don’t know why NORMA = major. Another one I still don’t get is the purpose of “As” in 7dn. Why not just Solver sounds hesitant…? I was chasing arsenic and various other tangents trying to fit that As into the answer. Probably says more about my state of mind today. My typical lunchtime solving experience is very dependent on how my morning has been.

30. Gaufrid @25
    I was going to reply to Pino@25 with something similar but I don’t have the desktop/mobile option on the iPad so couldn’t be sure it existed. But the iPad does show numbers. So I think the plugin is more sophisticated and is able to adapt to the screen size of the device rather than just mobile vs desktop. My iPad is certainly mobile but since it is a Pro has more than enough space for comment numbers.

31. Did anyone else try to jam GOON SHOW into 16a? Since I’d never heard of Norma Major, just John, she wasn’t any help.

    Like apparently everyone else, I hadn’t heard of AL DESKO but loved it. I have run across GROGRAM, probably in Jane Austen when they used to wear the stuff.

    “Buttle” does sound like Wodehouse. The verb doesn’t exist because butlers were traditionally in charge of wine, and the word comes from the French “botellier”, the bottle man.

    Sherlock (doesn’t he belong in Paul’s recent puzzle?) baffled me because I spell the outer word schlock, with a C. Yiddish is probably a stronger presence in at least the eastern US than in the UK. Took a bunch of crossers to get me past that.

    Lovely job, Nutmeg, and lovely blog, Eileen.

32. Hi HKrunner @30

    5dn was perhaps hard on non-UK solvers. NORMA is the wife of former PM John Major.

    I wondered about the ‘as’ in 7dn, too.

33. @ Jason No 6 –

    ‘Jeeves, of course, is a gentleman’s gentlemen, not a butler, but if the call comes, he can buttle with the best of them. It’s in the blood.’

    Stiff Upper Lip, Jeeves.

34. HKrunner @30
    The WPTouch plugin doesn’t currently support tablet devices and browsers so you will be seeing the desktop view. I have taken some screenshots of both desktop and mobile views (the latter simulated) and will post them in the FAQ page very shortly.

35. HKrunner and anyone else interested
    I have now added the screenshots to the FAQ page.

36. I found this hard going especially as there were some new words for me.I agree with Muffin regarding Imogen even though I admire her cleverness I’m not always on the same wavelength. Took a long time but got there in the end. Many thanks Imogen and of course Eileen with another excellent blog.

37. Much harder than expected so early in the week, not helped by the horrible grid. I kept going (with plenty of computer assistance) because I was determined to get there, but I think I got more satisfaction than actual enjoyment. This would have made a good prize crossword !

38. Thanks Imogen and Eileen for an elegant puzzle and blog.

    Has anyone a concern, as I have, about split clues? As in: Car_Pool (acceptable-ish because of its separate components) and Phi_Lip (which I can’t justify). I’ve seen them before and they cause the eyebrows to waggle, but PhiLip seems to offer a precedent which I would not wel_come. Is there a history? Has this been picked over previously in these august pages (or at any other time of the year).

39. A bit too hard for me-even though I finally finished the puzzle-although looking at it now I have to concede that this was very well clued. ELAPSE,I couldn’t parse having never heard of the snake- I’ve never heard of AL DESKO either but both the expression and the clue were rather good. I liked ABNORMAL and ECO TOURS but I wasn’t so keen on TITLED.
    Thanks for the workout Imogen.

40. Alphalpha
    I’m happy with split clues so long as the entries in the grid are actual words (PHI as a Greek letter?) However I don’t like puzzles that require non-word entries.

41. btw ezzie @36
    “Imogen” is a pseudonym of a male compiler
    http://bestforpuzzles.com/people/b.html#Richard-Browne

42. Alphalpha@38: I agree with muffin. I quite like split clues because the split itself is a bit of a clue (and in this case Phi is indeed a Greek letter). I don’t think that setters will ever split into non-words (heaven forfend).

43. Eileen: Thanks for the blog, but re “I didn’t know this expression but it made me smile and it’s a great surface”, I share the giggle but what is it that’s so great about the surface?
    To me it’s nonsensical.
    Otherwise on the whole I enjoyed the puzzle, so thanks also to Imogen.

    Could someone inform me how to do italics and bold type within the comments.
    Thanks.

44. jeceries @ 43: If I’m not mistaken, for bold it’s to start and to end.

45. jeceries @ 43: whoops! What I meant was to start bold; to end the bold. Same for italic except i instead of b.

46. jeceris @43
    You use HTML tags. These are enclosed in back and forwrad arrows. i or b turns on the effect; /i and /b turns it off again. See just above (in faint type) where you type your input.

    N.B. use Preview before posting!

47. Aaargh! Excuse gobbledegook. The computer keeps on interpreting my symbols.

48. muffin has it!

49. Gaufrid@26
    Many thanks. Even I got it to work.

50. Reading muffin @1, I realised that I haven’t yet formed an opinion about Imogen’s puzzles one way or the other. But I didn’t have too many problems with this one and really enjoyed it.

    I agree with HKrunner @29 that “As” in 7d seems superfluous: wouldn’t something like “Solver showing hesitation amongst second-rate stuff” serve just as well? But I can’t agree about 28a, which I thought was quite outstanding. Also appreciated 20a, since I’d never heard this expression before.

    Thanks to Imogen and Eileen.

51. jeceris @43

    If you write:

    <i>This is in italics</i>

    <b>This is in bold</b>

    It appears as:

    This is in italics

    This is in bold

52. On holiday on Skye so no paper copy. I found this very difficult on the phone and resorted to a few cheats…

53. A minor quibble but a BL is not a law degree in this country or any other common law jurisdiction. It is usually an LLB but occasionally BA(law). A JD in the US where it’s a graduate degree. Held me up trying to fit in ‘l’ twice!

54. Liked al desko and ecotours both of which I got very early, then slowed down. Never heard of grogram. Thanks for the colanders. Had to google NORMA and MAJOR for the explanation. Never met John’s wife before.

    Did anyone else try to fit in CRY FOUL for complain over nothing? Or BOX for protection at the front?!

55. jaceris @43, I too liked the surface of 20a, where is an ‘old soak’ going to get extra alcoholic drinks when sat at his desk, how many bottles can he sneak into the office? My late husband often ate AL DESKO to try and lose weight…

56. Re ‘Buttle’. Tony Hancock has become rich and his impecunious old buddy Sid James is on the cadge.

    Tony: ‘I need a butler. Can you buttle?’. Got a great laugh from the 60s TV audience and certainly fits with Cambridge’s ‘facetious’.

    Enjoyed the puzzle, though didn’t quite finish. Thanks.

57. Yes, Valentine @31, I tried Goon Show, too.

    ‘Fraid Imogen defeated me today. Left with quite a few unsolved. Including grogram, though it seemed familiar, probably from Austen, as Valentine said. But surely, Eileen, grosgrain, which I know well, is something else entirely?

58. It’s too late for me to write much, but I just want to say that I found this tough but entertaining. I couldn’t parse ELAPSE and I had to check that GROGRAM really was a word (like Eileen and others here, I am more familiar with “grosgrain”). Some other clues took longer than they should have done due to Imogen’s clever misdirection and some, like COLANDER, prompted a smile.

    Thanks, Imogen and Eileen.

59. It occurred to me that jeceris maight have been taking “soak” as a verb, in which case the surface is meaningless. However the image I got was rather like Cookie’s @55, though much less detailed!

60. posternoto @57, rather than quoting from Wikipedia, which says the same, I quote this from the Costume Encycopedia Database

    Textile : Gros-grain / grosgrain / grosgram / silk mohair

    Pronounced gro’-grain. From gros, thick, and grain, grain, showing conclusively the origin of the word and the manner of fabrics they should be. A firm, close-woven, fine-corded or grained dress silk, finished with but a slight lustre. The earliest grosgrain fabrics were woven with a silk warp and a mohair weft, and were very coarse. These were known at different times under the terms “grosgram” and “silk mohair.”

    Cole, George S. “Dictionary of Dry Goods,” 1894, p. 171. Published: Chicago, Illinois, USA

61. Thanks, Cookie. I’m enlightened.

62. In Dorothy Sayers’s “Whose Body” (1923), Mervyn Bunter says, “It is, if I may say so, more than a pleasure—it is an education, to valet and buttle your lordship.”

    Bunter is intimidatingly correct in all circumstances, so I think that this must be a verb in good standing.

63. For future ref: BUTTLE is the Norfolk dialect name for a bittern.

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