Guardian 27,159 – Tramp

58 comments on “Guardian 27,159 – Tramp”

1. I agree about AUDIT but thought the ‘differenT’ might be doing double duty as last-letter indicator; not clear and at best only a benefit-of-the-doubt job.
   A jolly puzzle, but I had to look up the Hendrix album, so not quite a non-specialist’s solve.
   Thanks to Andrew & Tramp.

2. Tramp does themes where no knowledge whatsoever is required-not about Bob anyway- and so witty.I found this faultless.And hugely entertaining.

3. Thanks Tramp and Andrew

   I really enjoyed this, though I did get lucky with “specialised knowledge” – I guessed “electric” from “non-acoustic”, and I knew ELECTRIC LADYLAND, which gave me HENDRIX (I think I have the LP somewhere about).

   I loved NUBILE, OBOIST, DETOX and HAREMS in particular.

   Two minor quibbles: I can’t make CLIMB equivalent to “top” in either sense, and I don’t think that missing the T in YO-YO is explained (the clue seems to give YO-YOT as there is no partial inclusion indicated).

4. To Muffin:
   I feel yr pain about YO-YO which had me foxed for a bit as well but as Andrew indicates, ‘toy’ is the def, so its ‘T’ doesn’t come into the wordplay.

5. I’ve read your blog more carefully, Andrew. I took the definition for YO-YO as “going up repeatedly”, as I thought that otherwise “Toy” would be doing double duty; I now see that it’s actually YO(b)-YO(b), so that works.

   (Misprint in DETOX – you have an S instead of an X)

6. Great stuff – particularly how the song titles have been worked into the clues for OLD HAND, NUBILE and OBOIST.

   Thanks Tramp and Andrew.

7. (Grant @4 – we crossed. Thanks anyway)

8. Did not know EGGBEATER for helicopter or ELECTRIC LADYLAND, but the cluing was clear enough for them to be written in – one of the regular pleasures of solving. As against this: 14 ‘primarily’, 22a ‘ultimately’ – some setters do without this dull form of device, or at least ration themselves to one such per puzzle! Maybe others don’t mind…

9. The more I look at 20a (AUDIT) the more I think that ‘differenT-at-back’ is actually quite a clever last-letter double-duty indicator. Doubtless Tramp will enlighten us (or claim it as his intention if he has any sense, tee-hee).

10. Splendid – I do love a crossword where you finish with a big smile on your face – thanks to Tramp for a clever and entertaining themed puzzle, particularly as you don’t need to know all about Mr Dylan to solve it. Hard to pick just one ‘favourite’ but I did like the ‘differenT at back’

    Thanks to Andrew too.

11. Thanks, Andrew.

    Absolutely brilliant exploitation of the three song titles.

    I, too, guessed ELCTRIC from ‘non-acoustic’ but didn’t know the album. I already had HENDRIX, so resorted to Google for the second word. Tramp must have been really chuffed to spot DYLAN in LADYLAND.

    I loved DETOX, too!

    I took AUDIT as Grant @9 did.

    Many thanks to Tramp -it was great fun!

12. A delightful puzzle. Many thanks Tramp, and may you stay forever young.

13. Steady progress, but we had to google a few things. Lots of good clues and smiles. We guessed 11 (climb) at the beginning, but couldn,really be confident, until we got eggbeaters to confirm the “b”. A new meaning for eggbeaters for us. Thanks Tramp and Andrew.

14. Great puzzle! Thanks to Tramp and Andrew.

    muffin@3: If you CLIMB a mountain, you ‘top’ it.

15. Median @14
    Not necessarily! You can climb without reaching the top (as I did on Ben Lomond once…)

16. Thank you Tramp and Andrew.

    I thought this puzzle was great, even though the theme was right out of my field – I had to check just now why ELECTRIC and ‘non-acoustic’ are syonymous, having failed to solve 18d,7d. Favourite clue was the one for AUDIT!

17. Thanks Tramp for a very entertaining puzzle.

    I guess in the clue for AUDIT, ‘Check’ might be doing double-duty as the definition and also the instruction to shorten AUDI(o)?

    Thanks to Andrew for a very clear blog. I, too, particularly liked the use of ‘steer’ in DETOX – a brilliant clue!

18. muffin @15, perhaps there is a subtle difference, you did not “climb Ben Lomond” since you failed to reach the top…

19. Robi @17, agreed as regards the clue for DETOX, very neat.

20. Great puzzle. Got stuck in NW corner having put in SALOON BAR instead of LOUNGE (Salon = dive? maybe not), and not knowing the meaning of EGGBEATERS. Loved OBOIST, SADLY, DETOX and ELECTRIC LADYLAND. Many thanks to Tramp as ever and to Andrew.

21. [muffin, just realised, you gave yourself away @15 by stating that you climbed “on Ben Lomond”.

22. [Yes, I climbed on Ben Lomond, but not on the top of it. I must be one of very few people who has been to the top of Ptarmigan but not Ben Lomond. Horizontal hail drove us off!]

23. I was interested to see how to parse 17a and 3d – I did not know that EGGBEATERS is American slang for helicopters.
    Blues = CHELSEA was new for me.
    Thanks Tramp and Andrew.

24. Many thanks to Andrew for the blog and the kind words.

    I wrote this puzzle in February 2015. I’m so relieved there are no obvious errors. I know very little about Bob Dylan or Jimi Hendrix but I noticed “DYLAN” in ELECTRIC LADYLAND and the seed was sown. Hopefully, the clue for that LP was gettable with checking letters. I don’t normally like general knowledge-type solutions but I don’t see what’s wrong with doing that every now and then: all solutions require some form of knowledge. I agree that the clue for AUDIO/T is not fair, since I should have explicitly spelled out the exchange of letters; I probably wouldn’t do that now. My original clue for OBOIST had “Answer’s Blowin’ in the Wind”, in quotes, because I wanted to acknowledge that that isn’t actually the song title and I wanted to give the allusion that those were the words written on Bob Dylan’s set list. My original clue for 3d was my favourite in the puzzle but it was deemed too laddish for the Guardian. I still find it hard to believe that a Guardian-reading solver would get upset by:

    One getting laid – drummers get choppers out in the US (3-7)

    I rewrote the clue for RIDDLE a couple of weeks back in part because of the reception to the last puzzle (and because the original clue was rubbish).

    Thanks for the comments.

    Neil

25. The bulk of Dylan’s best-known material was before my birth, so it’s probably a good thing that you didn’t actually need to know anything about him. This is also not the first Dylan-heavy crossword I’ve seen, which perhaps leads me to the conclusion that most crossword setters and solvers are older than me…?

    On the other hand, I’m familiar with ELECTRIC LADYLAND–I had a friend a few years back who is a massive Hendrix fan–so I put that in pretty quickly, which gave me HENDRIX on a silver platter. (Come to think of it, I also have a friend who is a massive Dylan fan–he just never rubbed off on me.)

    I found the crossword a bit tricky, although that may be because I started last night and was tired. What I had left went quickly enough this morning.

26. [In Douglas Adams’s “The long dark teatime of the soul”, Dirk Gently visits a house. His description of it matched ours very closely, so when he added that he bet there was somewhere in the house every Dylan album up to and including “Blood on the tracks” I had to buy it (I had the others!) It rapidly became my favourite. “Tangled up in blue” is the first track on it.]

27. This was pretty good even though I paused over YO YO and COD. As this was Tramp, I realized that this puzzle would have nothing to do with his Bobness but there was a music connection – ELECTRIC LADYLAND was FOI and I wanted 21ac to be CHESTER, the real first name of bluesman Howlin’Wolf, but, of course it wasn’t. I liked EGGBEATER,DETOX and OPERANT.
    Thanks Tramp.

28. Thanks to Tramp and Andrew. I knew EGGBEATERS but not OPTIC in a pub and had to look up ELECTRIC LADYLAND after getting HENDRIX and electric. Lots of fun.

29. I had big troubles in the NW, initially because I had TONIC at 13d, then assuming that ‘books’ meant 13a started with OT, later rolling on to an inability to see LOUNGE BAR and closing with ignorance of US slang in EGGBEATERS. All my fault. A shame, because anything that brings back memories of great tracks like ‘Tangled up in Blue’ can’t be all bad.

30. Terrific puzzle. Got the old brain cells going and that’s a plus. Oboist was my favourite and Bradford for the good wife. Thanks to everyone. 18

31. Haha!

    I was held up on 2d by using “it” equals “sa”, sex appeal, and the anagram of that with BLUE yielded USABLE, a fine solution for “ready”.

    Cheers all.

32. I groaned when I saw this setter’s name again, especially so close in the wake of Wednesday’s Boatman. Then I groaned once more on realising the clues revolved around arguably one of the most overrated songwriters of our time.

    Anyway, regarding individual clues: in 21a I’m struggling to find any coherent English sentence in which “else” may be replaced by “as well”. In 3d the definition is just bizarre: granted, landing is important for helicopters but it’s hardly an adequate description of what these machines are primarily designed for. By analogy, would one accept “They may stop in America” to define AUTOMOBILES? Nor do I like the rather laddish, sexist undertones in the definition at 2d – but I suppose that’s just a matter of personal taste.

33. Anything else?

34. I’m American but I wasn’t familiar with the eggbeater slang either. Sounds like something you’d hear in one of those Bogart movies where they strain themselves to the point of injury trying to come up with witty wordplay.

35. Tramp @ 33

    Nice use of the stiletto. Plaudits.

36. Tramp @33

    Nil carborundum … x

37. I don’t think there ever was a British EGGBEATER helicopter, so the nickname would be American, the last one in use being the Kaman HH-43 Huskie used in the 1950s to 1970s by the US Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps.

38. Eileen @36
    You seem either accidentally (or, to give you credit, deliberately) omitted the “illegitimi” 🙂

39. Thanks Andrew and Tramp.
    Original clue for 3d is much better – shame it got changed.
    Muffin@15 – you can maybe climb without topping, but you can’t top without climbing.

40. DuncT @39
    Unless I’m missing something, I think that you’re making my point.

41. Muffin@38 – “climb” as a clue for “top” might be iffy, but “top” for “climb” is fine.

42. DuncT @41
    Mmmm – OK, let’s move on.

43. As regards the comment @32, “automobiles” and “motor cars” are synonymous, but EGGBEATER helicopters were specific to America and the definition is a joke.

44. Eileen @ 36, Muffin @ 38.
    I first heard the advice as “Ne illegitimis carborundum”. “Don’t let the illegitimate persons grind you down” for the benefit of those who were fortunate enough to escape the study of Latin -a carborundum to which my nose was forcibly applied until I was 20. Memory may serve me wrong but I think that “Ne” indicates the imperative.
    I quite enjoyed this but there were too many clues requiring single letters to be solved for my liking.
    Thanks to Tramp and Andrew.

45. Great puzzle. Superb use of theme as always.

46. Yes, this was a(nother) fine puzzle from Tramp who once more showed to be the master of this kind of themed crosswords.
    It may perhaps lead to clues in which the surface isn’t always that convincing (e.g. 14ac, 4d) but soit, as the French say.
    From the foi (YO-YO) to the loi (OBOIST) a delight to solve.

    I, for one, am not unhappy with the AUDIT clue.
    Are there any other words of the pattern AUDI*?
    Yes, cars perhaps.
    I am not sure I liked THEME being clued as ‘melody?’, although ultimately Collins makes a case for it.
    OPERA = musical? I’m afraid that was the only one that didn’t go well with us.
    The &lit at 28ac was quite good while ELECTRIC LADYLAND and subsequently HENDRIX were more or less write-ins.
    I am always quite surprised to see people, especially the ones of my generation, not having heard of these (including my PinC).

    Very enjoyable.

    [and yes, Tramp’s comment @33 was just brilliant]

47. Read more like Trump at 33 than….
    If Anyone thinks climb and top are interchangeable then good luck to you. I got the answer but still don’t like or accept it. Having acknowledged how poor the AUDIT construct was you spoilt it by sniping at criticism of the CLIMB clue.

48. Thanks for the comments.

    Being a Wagnerite, theme and melody are synonymous: they are both used as alternatives to leitmotif. I accept top is a bit loose.

    As for single-letter indicators: if you write this type of puzzle then it is inevitable that there will be a scattering of initial letters in the clues. It is also inevitable that a few surfaces won’t be as smooth as they could otherwise be. For more on this subject read this superb article that discusses this perfectly;

    http://alberichcrosswords.com/pages/surface.html

49. Well, I’m with gofirstmate @32 on this one and read Tramp @33 as a request for help rather than a masterfully witty response. You could add 23d as the sort of CD that would have Rufus run out of town, clues at 10a, 19a, 6d and 8d that would normally be pasted as belonging in the Quiptic, more casual sexism in 22d. I dread to think what mayhem may have ensued if poor, old Otterden’s name had been on this crossword.

    Perfectly straightforward comments, especially when put in the context of gofirstmate explaining why they didn’t enjoy the puzzle rather than affirming it as definitively bad. Certainly noting to justify being called a bastard.

50. We struggled with this this in places, but that was down to our solving inadequacy of the clueing. We were happy enough with the ones that have generated debate that touched on the acrimonious. I’m always surprised that something that is a pastime and a bit of fun can generate such passion and occasionally venom!
    I’m all for loosening the collar when it comes to risqué references – they’re rarely only offensive in the mind of the solver and often fun, and hopefully broaden the solving community. Keep pushing the boundaries Tramp, and thank you Andrew.

51. It should read “not” the clueing.

52. Just finished this morning after a busy day yesterday.

    Really enjoyed this. Thank you Tramp for the puzzle and thanks for swinging by here.

    Thanks Andrew for a clear blog.

53. DuncT @ 39: You can top by not climbing if you land in an Eggbeater.

    Tramp: Applause for your original clue for 3.

54. Oh dear! It does sadden me when some are swift to quibble without justification, particularly when it’s about another superb puzzle from a favourite setter.
    GK – Some would argue that Hendrix was greatest electric guitarist (I’d rate Zappa higher, but he had the ‘misfortune’ of not joining the 27 Club!) and Electric Ladyland is his most famous album – so hardly abstruse.
    I like Tramp’s original clue for EGGBEATERS – how churlish not to allow it.
    My favourite clue (only the second this year to receive two ticks) was OLD HAND. Quite brilliant. I’d love to know if Neil ‘discovered’ this earlier and held it for future use.
    OK, I’ll agree that RIDDLE was weak but I’d be worried if there wasn’t some imperfection. Tramp may be divine to me but I’m pretty sure he’s human.
    This crossword was a JOY!
    Many, many thanks.

    [Incidentally, muffin, Blood on the Tracks is generally acknowledged as Dylan’s best album – but on the day he receives his Nobel prize I believe Leonard Cohen would have been a worthier winner]

55. As others have said, this puzzle really was a joy, not least in its ability to use elements of the theme, i.e. Dylan lyrics/song titles, to clue entries that had nothing to do with the theme, e.g. at 4 and 14.

    I was also stumped by the Hendrix album, but a quick Google search put me out of my misery.

    On Tramp @ 24, I am sorry the “choppers” reference proved too risqué – perhaps you could have got away with a milder reference to SM/tnrashers?!

    In any case, thanks for some lovely Friday evening entertainment.

56. Please can someone tell me why there are holes in a RIDDLE.

57. Riddle as in sieve

58. Thanks, muffin. I’ve never heard that usage, although my dictionary, had I used it, clearly says so.

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