Guardian Cryptic 27,174 by Imogen

52 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 27,174 by Imogen”

1. The word for want in 2 down is LIST, not LEST… so nothing 16 down there

2. Thanks Imogen and loonapick

   I enjoyed this a lot more than I generally do Imogen puzzles, though I was a bit lucky with some of the words I knew – “coffin” immediately suggested KIST (from”Time team”, I expect!) and I also knew PAAN from somewhere. As I’m a golfer, COLONEL BOGEY was also familiar, though I think it might be an elaboration of the more common “bogey”, by reference to the tune.

   I liked LIKE AS NOT and SO THERE in particular (I love a good “hidden”).

   COMPLIANT almost but doesn’t quite work for me – I think it’s the “during” that doesn’t sound quite right.

   As an ex-teacher, OFSTED was easy enough to get, but I didn’t parse it.

3. Thanks, quenbarrow. Will edit.

4. A good workout. In 16d, I had ‘eccentric’ as the definition with ‘badly translated’ as the anagrind. I guess it works either way.

5. Thanks, Imogen and Loonapick.
   I got there eventually but only with a few unparsed guesses at the end. Quite hard for a Tuesday, I thought. LENINIST is still a mystery to me – I don’t get how list = want, or nine = square?

6. I don t understand how “being old fashioned” serves at 2 down

7. According to this , “bogey” only preceded “Colonel Bogey” in this sense by a few months. Don’t know if the story is true, though – I hadn’t heard it before!

8. NINE as “square” has come up several times recently. It’s 3×3, i.e. a “square”.

9. ‘List’ is an archaic word for ‘want, wish, desire’; 9 is a square number.

10. I thought this looked very tough at first glance, but gradually got into it. Got stuck on EXALT for some reason. Favourites were ZHIVAGO, ROLLER SKATES, RUMINANT and LEAP SECOND. Thanks to Imogen and loonapick.

11. Thank you Imogen and loonapick.

    Quite hard going, but enjoyable. I got PAKISTANI from the crossers, then dug up KIST and PAAN from the back of my mind.

    ZA is “South Africa terminal”, i.e. the TLD ‘.za’.

12. Several people on the Grauniad site have commented on not having heard of Zadok (the priest). I bet they have! If anyone here thinks they haven’t, try here.

    The intro was used recently as an advert (cruises?), but I suppose that doesn’t count, is it finished before Zadok enters.

13. Cookie @11
    Yes ZA is the Top Level Domain indication for South Africa, but doesn’t that make “terminal” do double-duty, as it’s needed to give the last letter of blacK?

14. muffin @13, so it does, the clue seems to be faulty.

15. Thanks loonapick and Imogen quite a challenge with a few words new to us.

    Like gsol @6 we didn’t understand the “old fashioned” but thanks to Flavia @9 because it is an archaic use “old fashioned want” is list.

    loonapick, there is a typo in your explanation of 27a you have predtige instead of prestige.

16. Cookie @14 ZA is the ISO 3166 code for South Africa. So it can stand alone so the terminal only refers to the last letter of black.

17. Several people on the Grauniad site have questioned the clue for 27a, I did too, but on googling found that ROLLER is informal for a car made by Rolls-Royce.

18. Thanks Jenny and Charles, I seem to remember that we have had a similar problem before, and that it was I who explained about the ISO code! Grrr

19. I found this one easier than some of Imogen’s previous puzzles, but he is one of the Guardian’s tougher setters. There were a few unfamiliar words (e.g. KIST) but it was easy enough to guess what to look up.

    Thanks to Imogen and loonapick

20. As I said earlier, KISTS were often discovered on “Time team”, particularly on Orkney,as I recall. Perhaps not all of us were devotees!

21. Thanks to Imogen and loonapick – I enjoyed this. Guessed Colonel Bogey, had no idea about golfing reference. Dredged Zadok from the deepest recesses of my memory, and thank you muffin@12 for the Handel link – of course!

22. I have just started my 58th season of playing golf, yet I have never heard of the imaginary Colonel Bogey – one learns something every day! Overall this was a very enjoyable puzzle even though one or two of the clues were a little too contrived for my liking. BUTT was my last entry – in hindsight it was so obvious but it wasn’t until I had solved BEDSIDE that the penny dropped. Thanks to Imogen and loonapick

23. lancsolver @22
    I found the story I linked to @7 in several different pages through Google, but it was pretty much word for word each time, so hardly independent sources. I had heard “a Colonel Bogey” on the golf course once or twice, but only jokingly (like “a Bing Crosby” – straight down the middle).

24. Thanks Imogen; easier than some of his but still pretty tough.

    Thanks loonapick; I failed to see the HIV in ZHIVAGO – good clue! KIST and PAAN new to me.

25. muffin @23
    I know what tune I will be whistling when I play tomorrow. I take a lot more “Colonels” these days than previously – and also far too many double “Colonels”!

26. [Where do you play, lancsolver? I play in Lancashire too – perhaps we know each other!]

27. muffin @23, it does tie in with the inspiration ‘Kenneth J.Alford’ had to compose the march on hearing ‘Colonel Bogey’ on the golf course whistling a minor third to warn people instead of shouting “Fore!”.

28. I play at Shaw Hill, near Chorley. What about you?

29. [I have visited Shaw Hill – lovely course (home of Nick Dougherty, who was once captain of the U12 rugby side I coached!). I play at Great Harwood.]

30. Imogen said that “sim” was a sort of card. Loonapick says that “sim” is a sort of card. No dictionary I’ve access to mentions card in that context at all. So please, WHAT sort of card?!

31. A SIM card is the essential component of a mobile phone that makes it unique: SIM = subscriber identification module

    Bogey used to mean par, according to this article

    Thanks to Imogen – always a challenge – and Loonapick. I would never have parsed PAKISTANI in a month of Sundays

32. It may well be that “terminal” relates to blacK, but equally K on its own means BlacK in printing (CMYK).

    Also, is this a pangram?

33. Chowlett @32

    So far as I can see there is no “Q”

34. @ Freddy. Thank you. I must take a phone (not mine) apart and have a look at it

35. Sasquach @34. No need to take the phone apart. If you change providers or tarrifs they give you a new SIM card, so it must be easy to remove.

36. Chowlett @32 When we saw the Z, X, K and J a pangram did come to mind. But it can’t have been because I never notice them when they are there.

37. K in CMYK stands for “Key” – it is black, though!

38. To Sasquach@34 and Charles@35, not just when changing providers. The best way to avoid the exorbitant roaming charges when travelling is to install a local SIM card. The SIM card in my phone is in and out like a (insert suitable metaphor). I keep the SIM cards and the little pin required to eject the card holder in my wallet.

39. Thanks to Imogen and loonapick. Like others I found this puzzle difficult. I could not parse EXALT or PAKISTANI and did not know COLONEL BOGEY (though here in the US I did dredge up OFSTED).

40. Since I am here … this was an enjoyable but also frustrating solve. I usually don’t enter an answer unless I can parse it. But today there were 5 cases where I had either parsing or definition but not both but was nevertheless confident of what the answer would be. The first was PAKISTANI. The answer was clear because I am familiar with paan, but only wrote it in when a Google search for KIST showed an equivocal connection (e.g. ‘What is the difference between a coffin and a kist”). But then I ran into COLONEL BOGEY – like most solvers here I suspect, I know it as a march, with profound connotations, as well as the origin of the term bogey in golf, but how many have heard of the explanation muffin@7 referred us to? Then came OFSTED – unlike muffin again, @2 this time, I arrived at the result by parsing it but had no idea what it meant. LENINIST and ZADOK were the others – I have never heard of list = want or zadok the black priest.

    These are not complaints. I wrote in all the answers and learned a few things from my own research and the comments from others above. But to be honest, while I appreciate and admire loonapick’s blogs, especially since it is clear he fits his blogging duties into a busy life, I think it is incumbent on a blogger to explain why e.g. kist= coffin and list = want and what OFSTED means, not just present the parsing as if everyone has had Chambers inserted via a SIM card for the brain. I am a very experienced solver so I know there are many others who would have been left wondering after reading the explanations.

    Still, many thanks to Imogen and loonapick.

41. A joy to solve. On first look, very little, but a couple down the bottom went in, and it progressed from there. ZADOK probably my favourite, and a good example of the clever wordplay and meaningful surface. A couple were less than stellar – APLENTY is barely an anagram – but there were many more of the first order. And, as one whose career was in the education system, OFSTED was great fun – never thought I would say that!

42. HKRunner @40
    Do listen to the link I gave @12 – I feel confident that it will be familiar.

    As far as I’m aware (from “Time team” again!) a kist is a rectangular stone box used for burials, sometimes with a lid, but not generally a bottom, I think.

43. Oh this was hard!I didn’t parse everything- PAKISTANI was a guess as was LENINIST- and this took me a long time. I thought I was getting better at IMOGEN’s puzzles but this demonstrated that I’m not. Still, I did finish, so that’s a plus.
    Thanks Imogen.
    P.s. I’m surprised ZADOK gave trouble.

44. HKRunner @40

    In response to “I think it is incumbent on a blogger to explain why e.g. kist= coffin and list = want and what OFSTED means, not just present the parsing as if everyone has had Chambers inserted via a SIM card for the brain”…

    …I try to tread that fine line between explaining things and “not teaching my granny to suck eggs”. I certainly don’t have a Chambers in my head via SIM card or otherwise.

    I will try to put in more explanation in future when time allows.

    Thanks for the feedback – without it, we bloggers just go along in ignorant bliss.

    PS I didn’t know “list” = want either, and relied on an early commenter to enlighten me, after which I edited the blog.

45. Failed to complete in NW as I was convinced I needed a ‘Q’ to complete the pangram. Too clever is dumb, as my old Mum used to tell me…..
    Loved PLAT DU JOUR and ZHIVAGO, though.

46. Thanks Imogen and loonapick

    Although I finished this and only failed to parse LENINIST altogether, there are still a couple I’m not quite clear on:
    9a SIMON ~ how does ‘at’ indicate the order of the charade’s components? That seems a strange choice of word when ‘on’ would have worked perfectly well and maybe even improved the surface.
    1d COMPLAINT ~ isn’t ‘during’ superfluous?

    Those queries aside I still very much enjoyed this, with my favourites being SO THERE and RUMINANT.

47. Angstony @46
    Thank you – see mine @2!

48. On 9, “ON” wouldn’t have been good as it is a component of the wordplay. Leaving out the “at” altogether would mean the surface didn’t make much sense; on the other hand, one could argue that the surface as written doesn’t make much sense either. Probably the weakest clue (and I’m not saying that because I had TIMON for a while!)

49. Anyone else get ‘attack’ for 7D ?

50. muffin @47 & 48
    Ah sorry, I reckoned to read all the comments but I somehow missed your mention of ‘during’ there.

    I see what you mean about ‘on’ being problematic, but I still think even that would have been better than ‘at’, which as far as I can tell can’t be interpreted in any way as an indication to position ‘on’ after ‘sim’. Perhaps ‘with’ would have just about worked?

51. No need to apologise, Angstony – I’m just pleased thta someone shared my doubts.

52. Oh dear. I had 5dn as OUSTED

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