Oh cripes, it’s that Nimrod again.
A challenging solve of course, but with plenty to enjoy. No sign of a theme or nina, at least as far as I can see, but we do have a handful of long entries including a couple of symmetrically placed ones.
Favourite clue today is perhaps 2 down for its simplicity and fun.
There remains a fair bit that I don’t fully understand, but here’s the best I can do for now. There is much to discuss along the way.
| Across | ||
| 1 | FOLLOWING UP | Row of backs describing outstanding pursuit (9,2) |
| OWING in (PULL + OF)<. Outstanding as in debt. | ||
| 9 | ROOTLET | Casual driver with reversible bodywork’s a little radical? (7) |
| From TOOTLER with the outer T and R reversed. Not a device I recall seeing before. “Radical” can indeed simply mean “root”. | ||
| 10 | SPARSER | It’s not so plentiful in sister’s analysis (7) |
| PARSE in SR. Perhaps a slight question mark here, since “analysis” is a noun and “parse” a verb. | ||
| 11/6 | WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG | The question of nervous boss, with whiff of deserved cup glory…own goal! (4,5,8,2,5) |
| Anagram of (BOSS + WITH + D[eserved] + CUP GLORY OWN GOAL). Nearly marked this as &lit, though I think purists would disagree since “the question” isn’t part of the wordplay. | ||
| 12 | SPIED | Courage finally gathered, lowers circular saw (5) |
| ([courag]E in DIPS)<. Nice misdirection using “saw” here. | ||
| 13 | TO A T | Coatless carnivores? Exactly (2,1,1) |
| [s]TOAT[s]. | ||
| 14 | THE ROYAL WE | One flushed with success in throne-room, so to speak? (3,5,2) |
| Not really sure what the definition is here, but of course “one” and “we” are ways in which Her Maj is characterised as referring to herself. Plus “we” sounds like “wee”, while “flush” and “throne” have a couple of meanings each. I could imagine non-native speakers being flummoxed by this one! | ||
| 16 | EAT ONE’S HAT | Be surprised enough to adopt a pork-pie diet? (3,4,3) |
| Two meanings, with “pork-pie” being a type of hat. It’s kind of a shame that we hyphenate the hat, as it rather gives the game away here. | ||
| 19 | IGOR | I take leave before Prince of Opera (4) |
| I + (R with GO before it). Suspect I’m not the only one sent searching for a “prince” meaning for R. Prince Igor is a shouty musical thing by Borodin, the internet tells me. | ||
| 20 | ELEMI | Chief among extracts within tree, source of inks (5) |
| (E[xtracts] in ELM) + I, and &lit. This stuff. | ||
| 21/1D | NOT KNOW A B FROM A BATTLEDORE | Ring for Stokes in error, take bowler for batsman? Don’t be stupid (3,4,1,1,4,1,10) |
| Goodness. It’s an anagram of (TAKE BOWLER FOR BATSMAN DONT) except with with R instead of S, and no way was I ever going to solve that. A quick google suggests it’s an archaic proverb. Of course, we all knew that a Stokes (S) is “the CGS unit of kinematic viscosity”, but I haven’t yet found a source for R=ring. | ||
| 23 | EROTEMA | A remote resort? That’s rhetorical (7) |
| EROTEMA*. | ||
| 24 | GAMBOGE | It’s yellow animals hunter seeks around marsh (7) |
| BOG in GAME. An unfamiliar term, but fairly clued. It’s a yellow gum resin. | ||
| 25 | EXONERATING | Erstwhile Mariner stoppeth one in act of absolution (11) |
| ONE in EX–RATING. The “in” is crucial to the definition, rather than just as linking fluff like we sometimes see, which is nice. The reference is to the Ancient Mariner who “stoppeth one of three”. | ||
| Down | ||
| 2 | LILAC | Repeatedly cut what Mr O’Grady often put on tree (5) |
| LIL[y] AC[t]. Paul of that ilk, of course. The chap behind Lily Savage, though perhaps even more famous as himself these days. I once saw him in a Wetherspoon’s, which mildy surprised me. | ||
| 3 | OUTRUSH | Quick exit is not about cut in working hours (7) |
| [c]UT in HOURS*. “Not about cut” gives you CUT but with the C/circa/about removed. | ||
| 4 | INSIDER | Drink under the bar, allegedly, one of us (7) |
| Homophone of “inn” + homophone of “cider”. | ||
| 5 | GLASS EYE | I don’t see marauding Gaels containing uprising very well (5,3) |
| YES< in GAELS*. | ||
| 7 | ARE WE THERE YET? | Question from the back about forecaster putting forward a time? (3,2,5,3) |
| Tricky to explain, but it’s (RE + WEATHER EYE) + T, with the A from WEATHER shifted forwards. | ||
| 8 | BRIDGE PROBLEM | Pons asinorum for quartet holding hands (6,7) |
| Another one I was never going to solve. A riff on “bridge” having two meanings but it’s an unfamiliar term, the wordplay is in Latin, and it isn’t entirely clear to me what the definition actually is. | ||
| 15 | ANTIHERO | Pinkie Brown? Huckleberry Finn? 007 possibly another one to include (8) |
| I included in ANOTHER*. Another sort-of-&lit where the definition and wordplay overlap a bit. | ||
| 17 | SANTA FE | Soldier rests in secure state capital (5,2) |
| ANT in SAFE. Capital of New Mexico. | ||
| 18 | ANTIGUA | Not completely in favour of banning firearms on a Caribbean island (7) |
| ANTI–GU[n] + A. | ||
| 22 | NIMBI | In 60 secs, bishop’s erected haloes (5) |
| Took a while to unravel, but it’s (B in 1 MIN)<. | ||
* = anagram; < = reversed; [] = removed; underlined = definition; Hover to expand abbreviations
Thought I’d posted but….
8d clue was missing (in the print out and maybe elsewhere) so could only guessLOI 8d-shame its a great clue-had to be Bridge or Fridge something. Even if I’d guessed the answer I would NEVER have guessed Nimrod’s clue.Best puzzle of theSaturday bunch for sure.
Too hard for me. Used the cheat button for 8d since clue was missing. Guessed GAMBOGE from the wordplay. Used a thesaurus to get EROTEMA since my anagram solver came up blank. Guessed ELEMI as it rang a vague bell. Used the help of Mr Google to find 21/1d but couldn’t parse it. Guessed SPIED but didn’t parse it. Pleased to get the others, especially 7d and 9a. I find a lot of this setter’s clues unfairly difficult, stretching the rules past breaking point. But that’s just my opinion and I’m sure many rate him highly. Still always enjoy the challenge so thanks to Nimrod and the sterling effort of Simon for explaining most of it.
Like Hovis I didn’t think much of this. It struck me as the work of a setter trying to show off how clever he is rather than producing an entertaining puzzle. There seem to be a couple of answers with an unexplained r. I wondered if there was something clever going on in the background but by the end I couldn’t be fagged to work it out.
Lots of missing clues on the general knowledge puzzle this week too, so I wonder if the Independent site is under the weather?
David – which ones have an unexplained R?
Igor and sparser (I’m not sold on sr for sister) but it’s hard to get to the bottom of it for the verb-noun issue you mentioned.
I hadn’t realised until I strayed onto a page here a moment ago that the setter of this puzzle also trades as enigmatist and io, whose output I also don’t think much of. So at least he’s consistent.
David@6etc Did John beat you at darts once or twice? He seems to have upset you somewhere along the way.
In 21/1d ‘Ring’ is O, not R – works fine.
Toughly toughington as expected, but lots to enjoy in trying to crack it. The long convoluted ones are often the key if you can manage to get there, and have time to spare for the retroactive parsing. Very much in the spirit of Araucaria, I think.
Great puzzle.
Interesting that the criticism here seems to be along the lines of ‘I’m not very good at puzzles, use all sorts of external aids and still couldn’t do this so it must be crap as all puzzles ought to be pitched so an idiot can solve them’
Maybe they should just do easier puzzles and leave the proper ones for the rest of us to enjoy
I found it friendlier than some Nimrod’s I met in the past. Still a proper Nimrod but…
Lots of lovely d’oh moments so thank you to Nimrod and Simon too
Hard, but enjoyed it for the most part. Got 8d from the letters alone, since it wan’t even printed on the web version, so thought it must be some very clever cryptic! Only marginally easier now we’ve seen the clue…
Anyway, just to say that we thought that the ring is ‘O’ not ‘R’ in 21, 1d, which we believe gives the right letters (but I can’t be bothered to double check…)
^ Oops! Not sure what I did, but it’s quite pretty.
Wukka @11, I’ve triple-checked that anagram and it does work with O rather than R (as I pointed out in post 8).
Copmus@7 I wouldn’t know John (I presume that’s the setter’s name in the real world) from Adam. I manage to keep a very firm distinction between feelings about someone and appreciation (or otherwise) of his or her work. For example my revulsion for Roman Polanski on a personal level doesn’t stop me appreciating his films.
David Mark@9 I had no difficulty finishing the puzzle, but simply didn’t enjoy it and found some of it plain wrong. Since you are so on top of the puzzle, perhaps you could explain the unaccounted for R in Igor and the apparent anomaly in 10. I’ll be waiting with bated breath for enlightenment from a master.
David @14, the R in IGOR is recipe/take, an old crossword convention. It’s Latin, where recipe is the imperative of recipere, to take. (Simon highlighted it in pink for you to hover your mouse over, but didn’t say it explicitly.)
David@14 1 We have something in common-Polanski is possibly my favourite director.
2 Do I note a slight irony in your saying “master”?
3 I have noted the difference in your comments here and the ones you post under your alter ego on the Graun site.
You seem to be Graunophobic.
Whereas I am a mid-peloton solver satisfying a harmless addiction in my dotage.
David, you mentioned 10a as well, PARSE in SisteR. It seems parse is being used loosely as a noun in the same way as we use solve as a noun, although it might be unconventional. E.g. “that was a tough solve”.
@ David
My pleasure – IGOR parses as I GO R(recipe=take)
PARSE can be a noun.
There are no faults – just a lack of ability on your part.
@ David
Sorry I missed Michael’s reply.
You routinely rubbish difficult puzzles here claiming they are flawed when invariably the fault is yours.
Ever thought of taking a deep breath before posting?
As usual when it’s a Nimrod I roll up me sleeves and say ‘This time I’m going to have you, matey!’ and then, an hour later, I lie in a bruised and mangled mess and, just before passing out, I hear Nimrod whistling Dixie as he walks away unscathed.
This time was no different, though I did a lot worse than usual (failed to get the really long uns to help out with crossers – yes, I missed 11/6, doh!). Did manage to solve the very amusing 14a so didn’t mind taking me beatings and, as usual, it’s a case of ‘one day I’ll have you, Nimrod, one day!’ (and seriously, when that day comes it’ll be nude laps round the garden in celebration).
Thanks to The Punisher for the puzzle and to SH for the sterling work on the blog-front.
Hoskins@20- Humility and Honesty
sound like Mozart to me!
I bet you long for the days of the oh so simple Beelzebub, Simon. 🙂
Thanks John for a real grapplefest, and thanks too for tweeting the clue to 8d.
Aarggh another battering; cheers John (I think), and thanks to Simon.
Conrad, I reget to share this with you but your use of the word “grapplefest” has brought to mind a fireside image of you and JH in the roles of Alan Bates and Oliver Reed in Women in Love
Well, we saw it was Nimrod and were prepared for a long slog, but we got there by degrees, starting with IGOR, though there were several we couldn’t parse, and ELEMI seemed to us either to lack a definition or have ‘chief of extracts’ doing double duty.
The absence of a clue for 8dn didn’t worry us at first – we thought it might be an expression meaning ‘without a clue’ (I think the same trick has been used before by simply using the enumeration ‘8’ for ‘clueless’). Only when we got all the crossing letters and BRIDGE PROBLEM was about the only sensible answer did we wonder if the clue was missing. However, a BRIDGE PROBLEM or pons asinorum might well describe this puzzle, as explained here.
Favourites were THE ROYAL WE (more like Punk than Nimrod?) and EAT ONE’S HAT for their humour.
Thanks, Nimrod and Simon
DMT@18 and 19 I don’t call using verbs and nouns interchangeably difficult. I call it wrong. You seem to have a keen desire to show how clever you are: are you very short?
In 10 years of blogging I’ve never had to actively moderate comments on my posts and I don’t wish to start now, but this is not the place for personal insults. Let’s get back to the puzzle shall we?
@ David
I’m surprised you’re no9t capable of this yourself but here https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parse is a link which should help you realise how wrong you are.
I’m a six foot tall international sportsman by the way and don’t consider solving a daily cryptic an achievement to brag about.
@DMT If you’re insulting David for that then you’re insulting me as well, since I raised the question in the first place.
I’ve removed the rudest of your comments already and it would be nice not to have to remove any more.
@Simon
You are a regular and must know that he is conducting a prolonged campaign against this setter – you are abetting him
Hear, hear. Do play nicely, children. It’s rather the point of all this.
Good grief
David Mark Thomas
The comment that you posted at 2:51am today goes well beyond that which is acceptable on this site so I have removed it. Please ensure that any comments you add in the future comply with the Site Policy (particularly paragraph 1).
Having been back through all the comments more than once, my conclusion is that this unacceptable exchange of insults was started by your inflammatory comment #9, something which I hope you will not repeat.
For the record, those who queried the analysis=parse were right to do so if they consulted Chambers or Collins, both of which only have analysis as a noun and parse as a verb. However, the ODE does have parse as both a verb and a noun (see below) so Nimrod’s usage is correct.
ODE – parse
verb Computing analyse (a string or text) into logical syntactic components.
noun Computing an act of parsing a string or a text.
Late, but a bland and uncontroversial anyway comment anyway. The usual Nimrod marathon (about 4-5 hours – yes, I should get a life) but eventually all in / guessed apart from the unclued 8d, the clue for which I was sure had been intentionally left empty to test our imagination. Enjoyable? Well, I’d have to say not really, but an experience which will hopefully help my solving skills and I’m glad I persevered (nearly) to the end.
You never know, NOT KNOW A B FROM A BATTLEDORE (correctly guessed) might come in useful some day.
Thank you to Nimrod and to Simon, for both your parsing and moderating skills.
@ Admin
So it wasn’t caused by the previous gratuitously insulting post at #3?
Anyone regularly doing cryptics and certainly those who come here should be familiar with PARSE as a noun as although it’s not common usage it is in crosswordland.
The man querying it has a long history of targetting this setter which you will certainly be aware of
I now remember why I stopped posting here in the first place. You tolerate repeated insulting of setters by inferior solvers who can’t cut it and get upset if they get a bit back.
I don’t expect this to stay up for long but at least you’ll see it.
Don’t worry, I have no intention of posting here again but I do look forward to meeting you sometime when you can explain in person your defence of the abuses here.
I am relatively new at cryptics after many years of solving US puzzles, and being from the US, I am at a relative disadvantage in not knowing the ins and outs of British language, politics, and popular culture. So Nimrod and his ilk are largely unsolvable for me; I do my best and use this blog to learn from. I agree with @Hovis that Nimrod’s puzzles aren’t for me, while recognizing that there are clearly many people who enjoy the workout.
Many thanks to Michael @15 for explaining the R in Igor; as I use an ipad for solving and reading the blog there is no way to “mouse over” or “hover” to see the explanation. I am not sure how many readers here are on ios devices, but if it is a lot perhaps it’s worth considering a different way of conveying that information.
Thanks to Simon and Nimrod, and to the commenters who were able to stay civil – the polite discourse here is so refreshing!
To Oren @ 35.
Thanks for the wise words from across The Pond. Would that your leaders were such fans of moderation. This is off-message, but I think you’d be a candidate for (spefically) the Tuesday Financial Times puzzle which I blog on this site each week. I’ll post some comments on General Discussion button which click & scroll to the bottom.
David Mark Thomas @34
> “So it wasn’t caused by the previous gratuitously insulting post at #3?”
I do not consider that comment to be insulting, gratuitously or otherwise. Visitors are free to be critical of a puzzle, provided they have a valid reason, as well as to praise one.
> “Anyone regularly doing cryptics and certainly those who come here should be familiar with PARSE as a noun as although it’s not common usage it is in crosswordland.”
As I indicated previously, ‘parse’ as a noun is not recognised by either Chambers or Collins, so anyone using one of those esteemed tomes could rightfully assume that it is only ever a verb. As for ‘certainly those who come here’, why should visitors to this site have any more insight than those who compile the standard references?
> “The man querying it has a long history of targetting this setter which you will certainly be aware of”
The person in question has been critical of some puzzles by this setter but he has also expressed a negative view of other setters so it is hardly ‘targeting’. There have also puzzles/clues that he has praised so it comes down to a case of which type of puzzle he prefers. I expect you have your preferences as well.
> “I now remember why I stopped posting here in the first place. You tolerate repeated insulting of setters by inferior solvers who can’t cut it and get upset if they get a bit back.”
Expressing an opinion is not an insult. How do you know that someone who is less than happy with a particular style is an ‘inferior solver’? Inferior to whom, yourself?
> “I don’t expect this to stay up for long but at least you’ll see it.”
Why should it not stay up? It gives others a chance to follow the exchange and judge for themselves.
> “Don’t worry, I have no intention of posting here again but I do look forward to meeting you sometime when you can explain in person your defence of the abuses here.”
If by ‘abuses’ you mean adverse criticism then my justification is that all comments are welcome, positive or negative (provided they comply with the Site Policy). Mature discussion between people with opposing views is a good thing, provided it is kept civil. If, as you seem to be suggesting, negative opinions should not be expressed, we would end up with only comments of a sycophantic nature which would be of no benefit to anyone.
FWIW I can’t help thinking the ref has booked the wrong player here. Reminds me why I rarely post here either
If you see his second sentence as reasonable comment you have no place running this board.
Bingy @ 38
Seconded.
To DMT @39
David Mark, you are not helping. We are happy in our comfort zone. We are kind to each other. You do not fit. Please leave.
@41 What a pompous and frankly baseless comment. I invite you to reread the comment made by David at 25. If that’s a nice comment not worthy of moderation then we have entered Wonderland..
@ Grant
What you mean is that you are happy in your little gang dishing out ill-informed criticism/ insults to setters in no real position to respond in kind.It’s the classic keyboard warrior behaviour – there isn’t a chance you would say the same thin face to face.
I thought I’d redress the balance for once but trust me the standard of comment here is frankly so abysmal I couldn’t imagine anyone staying long.
@ Admin
This will be my final word.
To sum up, it is perfectly acceptable to state that a setter is ‘trying to show off how clever he is rather than producing an entertaining puzzle’ and that short people are inferior in this charming establishment!
@ DMT in general.
I have done me best to stay away from the hoo-ha in this thread so as not to fan fires, but it is pretty difficult with the way you are behaving.
I think – and I understand that something might have happened between you two Davids elsewhere – that the tone and content of your original reply is to blame for all this silliness and I also think that in your last two messages you have stepped way over the line.
For me, your final word should’ve been an apology, but I am happy that it was, at least, your final word so we can get back to saying what we think about about crosswords, chatting in a pleasant way, talking the occasional bit of nonsense and generally enjoying ourselves.
Hope to see you around in the real life sometime and I’ll buy you a drink and we’ll laugh about the time everyone lost their cool for a day or so about cryptic crosswords. Until then, hope all is well with you and lets just chill, dude. 🙂
Full marks from me.
I follow this setter around all his incarnations, even paying money to retrieve his work from the DT. I think with practice you can get on his wavelength, and then it gets easier, although never a pushover.
I particularly like the plethora of well-known phrases (or sometimes less well-known or half forgotten ones)that he manages to cram into the grid – something of an art and possibly at times an arduous task (if many reworks are needed); one way or another there’s usually something more than just a collection of clues and intersecting answers and I think the extra work that goes into that deserves recognition.
Sorry I missed the earlier ding-dong. Skimming through the comments I can’t even work out what it was about in the first place.
BTW – in a few weeks time this puzzle will appear, unbylined, in the Adelaide Advertiser – a mid-market single city-based newspaper (think a local version of the Daily Mail – minus Kardashian body parts and Dacre’s editorial input) only consolation being that there are quite a lot of other puzzles on their puzzle page so the real cryptic slot is probably mainly only tackled by serious solvers.
Nonetheless (not the Indy’s fault) a byline would surely help – no idea why they don’t give one – maybe because they don’t like to trumpet too loudly that they (a Murdoch publication) have the puzzle syndicated from a rival camp.
@47JollySwagman Adelaide’s daily paper (Monday to Saturday), The Advertiser, stopped publishing Indy crosswords about three years ago. Until that time, they were published 21 days after their initial appearance in the Indy.
gwep posting from Adelaide.
@gwep – thanks for the update – I never read it myself.
The problem they had was that they already had The Times puzzle in The Australian, another Murdoch title.
What do they do now?
For my comment on the “debate” here please see the General Discussion section.
@49JollySwagman – merely a purported cryptic of grossly inferior quality, plus two non-cryptics and one “two-speed”, ie with both cryptic and non-cryptic clues.
Was so annoyed when it was dropped and the puzzles page dumbed down I cancelled the paper and then found a way to do the Indy on the day it was published with the kind help of Gaufrid.
I’m afraid I didn’t even attempt this one – I was just wondering why this one had such a high number of comments, and the answer is a depressing one. Agree with Bingy and Simon about who is most to blame…
Totally agree with Bingy, Simon and beery. The personal comments only came from one poster.