Guardian 27.409 / Paul

66 comments on “Guardian 27.409 / Paul”

1. Thanks Paul and Eileen

   I know a lot of composers, so this went in fairly easily. (I needn’t comment on the WEBERN clue, as you have, Eileen.) As an ex-chemist, I also appreciated ESTER! Other favourites were TALLIS and NADIR.

   TANGLE was an easy start, but what is the surface supposed to mean?

   I didn’t like “drop of cream” for C in CUPPA.

2. small quibble: 27 across solution should have one hyphen, not two

   yes, 29 across was a real instance of déjà vu.

   25 down: shouldn’t there have been a ‘hidden’ indicator of some kind?

   anyway, thanks to both: a pleasant low-key start to a windy (where I am) morning

    

    

3. quenbarrow @2

   Read it as IN steAD A GEneral…

4. PS to @2: I suppose that we read it as ‘in stead’ – the kind of word-split that seems to become more common – sorry to be slow

5. Thank you, muffin! – both messages timed at 9.32

6. Thank you, quenbarrow – corrected now.

7. Yes, very recent Weber+n. Managed to finish this, rare for me with Paul. Re 6ac: Does it always have to be the one with the hole when mint comes up? What about After8?

   Thanks Paul and Eileen.

8. Sorry, I meant 6down.

9. Outstanding puzzle at just the right level of difficulty for me.

10. Rather easier than many of Paul’s, and so no great issues for me here; is WEBER+N going to become one of those old chestnuts?

    Not exactly full to the brim of Paul’s trademark wit, though it’s always good to have a CUPPA.

11. Enjoyed this.  Eileen –  In 27A if 7th September is the USE BY DATE then 8th September is past it.

12. I know I missed yesterday’s theme, but surely there wasn’t a theme today, was there? 🙂

    Glad to see a bit of chemistry in 3: ‘Acid + alcohol = ester + water’ is etched into my brain from school days. Overall, an enjoyable and relatively easy solve.

    Thanks to Eileen and Paul.

13. Gareth @11 – yes, that’s what I meant.

14. Thanks Eileen.

    For once, a real romp for me.

    Your parse of LIT UP is simpler than mine.  I thought ‘up’ was the anagrind of TLI which is found in SPOTLIGHT

    Given his extensive use of this type of clue today, I thought the last 2 down clues interesting; 23d is CUPPA and 25d starts “Instead…” (TEA)

    I’ll get my coat…

15. Medain @12

    It’s difficult to find a “reversible reaction” symbol, isn’t it? When I used to write chemistry notes, I had a little graphic that I’d drawn to insert in equations when needed.

16. Median – sorry!

17. Thanks Paul and Eileen.

    I thought the ‘coolest of times’ was going to be -icier until I got STONED (and it’s only just after breakfast …)

    Nice setting to get all the composer references in the grid and clues.

    I’m never really sure whether definitions like ‘that’s sharp’ work; shouldn’t it be ‘one that’s sharp?’

18. Luckily I’m quite well up on composers having, in the past, tried to keep up with daughter’s career in Youth Orchestras and her music degree. And my own Chemistry A-level came in for the ester. I wonder how difficult this puzzle is for someone with no classical music background?

    There are at least two musical instruments in there too, violin in 4a and horn in 10a.

    I particularly enjoyed UPHOLSTER, LIFESTYLE and MIDWINTER.

    I found CUPPA a little awkward, but am happy with it now. I see we have an upside down cup in PUBLIC too.

    Thanks Paul for an enjoyable puzzle, and Eileen for the blog.

19. And having just read Robi @17, sharp is musical too.

     

20. Thank you Eileen and Paul – but I’m going to sound a contrary note (ha ha!). I’ve said it before but with this type of Paul I feel it’s an adversarial excercise rather than a co-creative one. It doesn’t help that it’s an overt theme that I lack knowledge of (or interest in), but there are nonsensical surfaces (1a, 22, 27, 18) which add nothing to the puzzle. Apart from 29 (short memory) we did finish, although I needed help parsing 9 and 18, but as you can tell from this grumpy post it wasn’t a joyful experience for me. Chacun a son gout!

21. Sorry all for being such a curmudgeon – I did have some ticks with UPHOLSTER being my favourite, but my negative mindset prevailed 🙁

22. Well, Paul got the better of me today. It took me an inordinately long time to solve approximately three-quarters of the puzzle, classical composers not being my forte. I almost gave up with all of the SW and a few others left unsolved. Even then, I felt a bit disappointed that I had had to check some composers on Google along the way. 15a TALLIS was a guess I had to confirm, and I actually forgot HOLST (in 14d) as well, even though he has appeared in cryptics before. Using Google, I filled in SEVER-N at 29a. Harry SEVER popped up as a composer, as did Edmund SEVERN…no recall of a chap called WEBERN, even though I probably was part of that 22 December puzzling experience.

    I think I only “got STONED” because of yesterday’s puzzle discussion regarding stony beaches…

    I did like 4d, VERDICT. At least that was a composer I knew!

    With thanks to Paul and Eileen.

23. We crossed, WhiteKing. But I think we are of like mind on this one, despite Paul being a favourite setter!

24. Just re-read the 22 Dec blog. I seem to recall engaging with that puzzle, and reading some of the blog, but I made no comment on the forum. It must have been an epic fail for me, or else I was too busy pre-Christmas to persevere and/or post. Whatever happened there, the composer WEBERN did not stick in my mind.

25. Shame you didn’t enjoy this Julie in Oz @22. But I think you’ve answered my question above about how difficult this was for someone not into classical music. I’m a bit like that with pop music after 1970, and have to rope in Mr. Crossbar to help.

26. I enjoyed this, although I agree with others noting that this was not Paul at his trickiest (or bawdiest).  I did not know all of the composers — Faure, for example — but I thought the answers were gettable from the wordplay.  I got a chuckle from the surface of 12ac.  I think my favorite today was USE-BY DATE.

    Many thanks to Paul, Eileen and the other commenters.

     

     

27. [Anyone unfamiliar with Thomas Tallis might like to listen to this]

28. Thanks to Paul and Eileen. Enjoyed this a lot though agree it was not Paul at his most difficult. Missed the anagram in use-by-date (looks so obvious now) and had to check on Faure. I also spent a long time trying to work out the parsing in midwinter, which also in retrospect seems obvious. That said, it is now one of my favourites along with upholster. Did think Webern was familiar but overall an enjoyable solve for me. Thanks again to Paul and Eileen.

29. Easy one, and yes, familiar. One wonders if the editor might not have spaced the two recent puzzles a little wider apart.

    She abandons NADIREHS, I’d say. That really requires an extra indicator, I’d say.

30. Thanks, Paul for an entertaining puzzle and Eileen for a welcoming blog.

    As well as Brahms & Liszt, 1a has Ravel as a nod to the theme.

31. Thanks both,

    Most of this went in surprisingly quickly, even tho’ I’m usually on Paul’s wavelength. That said, I was held up by 3d and 18d, which then became my favourites. The surface of 1a across is fine if one reads it as a disparaging comment on the composer Ravel (perhaps owing to his little short jacket).

32. The thing about Paul is that when I eventually fathom out one of his trickier clues, my reaction is usually “Oh that’s clever” and not “that’s a bit obscure/weird/flaky” as has been the case with some puzzles earlier in the week.  I thought this was very clever and particularly liked MIDWINTER (which I biffed) and USE By DATE.  That said, I agree with crimper @29 about NADIR – another biff for me.

33. Very enjoyable and I was so pleased that I could solve and parse all of the clues/answers.

    Thanks Paul and Eileen.

34. I didnt like STONED.

    There are quite a few WEBERS (without a Lloyd preceding them)WEBERN is more well known-but although I’m a bit of a music fan I’ve never heard anything from them.Thought it was pretty naff to drag that clue out again.

    But quite liked FAILURE, I did like MIDWINTER but could I have got it without the crossers?

    It seemed to pease the Paul fans but it the whole thing seemed like a retread to me.

    And where was Shostakovich?

35. I also found this easier than the average Paul, and liked it a lot. Favourites were MIDWINTER, UNLUCKIER, APOLOGISE and FAILURE. Many thanks to P & E.

36. [muffin @ 27  I tried three versions of the Tallis and, I am sorry, but I found this piece by all of them excruciating; I see the rest of the commentators on the sites found it otherwise]

     

    Thanks Paul and Eileen.

    I thought at first this was going to be difficult, but the second pass got me going. Enjoyed MIDWINTER.

37. Muffin,
    Thank you for the Tallis – Spem in Al(l)ium – it was always “Hope in Onions” to me, but double consonants have always thrown me; a handicap in both Latin and Italian. Happy memories of Gloucester.
    Thanks also for saving me a lot of time with the dots. I also came across the Barnsley Fern; do you know of it?

38. This was one of the easiest Paul puzzles we have seen in a long time, though my last two (FAILURE and SHARIF) took a lot longer than the rest. Liked USE-BY DATE and the appearance of LEICESTER on Eileen’s watch. I won’t say any more about WEBERN whcih was a write-in to me first time round too…

    Thanks to Paul and Eileen

39. The ESTER in Leicester:
    Some of the non-chemists posting here may be more familiar with esters than they think. At school in Gloucester we wore grey worsted suits that were not cleaned from one end of a term to another. In the labs Staniforth managed to spill an ester he’d concocted all over himself. Following this incident we knew when Staniforth was about without seeing him; he smelt very strongly of PEAR DROPS !

40. Thanks to Paul and Eileen. I listen to and sing a lot of classical music, so composers are reasonably straightforward for me.  Just as well as we have had a lot of them recently, and not just the pre-Christmas Paul: there was a nice use of Schubert and Haydn the other day.

    Tallis wrote a lot of glorious church music: “If ye Love Me” is one of my favourites (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WSe0kv6lCU). Webern perhaps needs more acquiring, though of the second Viennese school, Berg – who has also made crossword appearances – is in my view the most approachable. Webern incidentally had a rather surprising death: he went out for an evening cigar and was shot by an American sniper in 1945.

41. Marienkaefer:
    You remind me of the (possibly apocryphal) story of the dying words of Saki: “Put that bloody cigarette out!”
    He got the sniper’s bullet, not the smoker.

42. Thanks to Paul and Eileen. I enjoyed the scorers (and remembered Webern from the previous puzzle) but needed help parsing MIDWINTER, NADIR, and especially LIT UP.  Enjoyable.

43. [il principe

    After my bemoaning the lack of Romanesco in East Lancs on Tuesday, my wife went to a different species of supermarket today (Booth’s, in fact) and came home with one. Looking forward to it with the roast on Sunday!]

44. Seems to me this could have been in the Times it was all so straight and upright. Compared to usual Paul

45. [Yes. I copied a printout onto a computer long ago that gave me a Barnsley fern, which waved from side to side]

46. I’ve bought another from Signora Maria. I think my students are a little confused as to why I’m using a vegetable as a table decoration.

47. I’m rather surprised that some had difficulty with the composers. I would’ve thought the names would be familiar even if the music wasn’t. Still, I suppose there are those who think I should know cricketers!
    Not one of Paul’s most challenging puzzles but enjoyable enough. I liked USE BY DATE.
    Thanks Paul.

48. I can well understand why this puzzle might not have appealed to the (musical) non-classicists, as I think being steeped in this subject not only helped me to solve some of the clues but also contrbuted to my enjoyment of the crossword as a whole.
    The Weber/Webern combo was very familiar, of course. I particularly liked LARGE-SCALE and USE-BY DATE, but I wasn’t that fond of the kind of wordplay in the clue for MIDWINTER, although that didn’t stop me from solving it readily given the M, D and I.
    Thank you to both Paul and Eileen.

49. Re Tallis: my absolute favourite is his Miserere Nostri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5W67uBRZCo

50. Paul frequently makes reference to composers and music.I enjoy this type of theme because I happen to like classical music (as well as most other musical genres). I wasn’t terribly keen on the cuppa clue, and I tried over and over again to parse midwinter, but couldn’t fit anything satisfactory around NT. It was a surprise to see how simple it was. Still, it left me with a feeling of slight disappointment. Otherwise this was the usual scintillating and amusing performance from Paul. I understand why Whiteking was not happy. I used to get very frustrated with Paul until I came to appreciate his highly idiosyncratic style. Thanks, Eileen, for your clear and eloquent explanations, and thanks to Paul for yet another jovial bout of cruciverbal jousting.

51. Definitely a musical week, with the composers hot on the trail of the Fab Four!  Not Paul at his most fiendish – I was wondering if, in the Post-Rufus epoch, Thursday is the new Monday?  But I recognise that this is somewhat beyond the level of the average Rufus.  Maybe I had the advantage that, being something of a classical buff myself, all the composers’ names were familiar (unlike my experience with yesterday’s theme).

    Personally I prefer ghost themes (again, like yesterday) to thematic clues – but we’ve got to accept what comes.  The Guardian embraces many types of puzzle – that’s what’s good about it.

    Having said that, nothing to complain about today – a fine puzzle well-clued.  OK – we had WEBERN only recently, as Eileen pointed out – a bit disappointing that.  And ELGAR is so commonly used as an anagram of LARGE that it springs out at you instantly.

    Best of the bunch: MIDWINTER, I think.  Those reverse-clues are so hard to spot!

    Curiosity over TANGLE – the word “Ravel” (when it isn’t the composer) is an example of a word that has two exactly opposite meanings: either “entangle” or “disentangle”.  And STONED (when it isn’t being ‘under the influence’) is another case.  You can have “stoned fruit”: i.e. fruit with a stone in it; or “stoned fruit”: fruit from which the stone has been removed.  Take your pick.

    Thanks to paul and eileen.

52. Incidentally, does anyone else remember the STONED computer virus, that hit cyberspace way back in the 1980s (one of the first-ever viruses, it seems)?  I recall walking into a few computer shops in pursuit of my first-ever PC.  In one of them, every PC on display was showing a boot-up script followed by the text “This PC is now stoned.”  Every PC except one that is: that last was displaying the same message but in Danish (I think).  However, I strongly suspect that this was a joke perpetrated by the shop staff, rather than an actual infestation!

    As it happened, I eventually bought my PC somewhere else. 🙂

53. I had forgotten the previous composers puzzle, so I still got stumped by WEBER/N.  I liked most of the clues here, with MIDWINTER, USE-BY DATE, UPHOLSTER and NEIGHBOUR being stand-outs.

    Re: crimper’s point, perhaps 2 would be better as “She abandons playwright before a write-up, an all-time low (5)”

    LEICESTER was a write-in for me.  Il principe dell’oscurità, your hapless friend was lucky to spill the concocted product, not the starting acid, a particularly nasty mistake in the case of ethyl butyrate (pineapple smelling), made from butyric acid (not nearly as pleasant – see Wiki).

    Thanks, Paul and Eileen.

54. Where I taught, kids used to congregate outside the chemistry prep room. The lab tech wasn’t keen on this, so he took to “accidentally” spilling a little butyric acid (or butanoic acid, as it has been called for 50+ years – amazing how the much more logical IUPAC system still hasn’t taken hold!) outside the door.

55. Beatles albums yesterday, composers today, composed by Paul, whose namesake composed Yesterday – my head spins.  This was easy going for Paul I have to say, and quite a quick solve.  I didn’t know ESTER, but will remember it next time, as I did WEBERN from his previous appearance so recently!  MIDWINTER and USE-BY DATE probably my favourites: not too hard, but ingenious and unusual.

    Thanks Paul; thanks Eileen

56. Did most of it, but the word plays did for me.

    Those of us who are fond of saying we don’t see themes are clearly proved to be liars!

     

    Muffin, I used <-> for two way processes. Font Windings3 character code 0x31 has it as a single character.

57. [Thanks Derek – not quite the same thing though. The symbol need for a reversible reaction is an arrow with a one-sided head on top, pointing to the right, a similar arrow with the single-sided head pointing left below it. See here. (While looking for it, I did find a number of questions on how to do it – some even had answers!)]

58. Quite enjoyed the puzzle but generally annoyed when the compilers assume all those who enjoy crosswords also enjoy classical music (and Shakespeare and Greek mythology…). I don’t! Only way to solve this is with a list of composers seeing which fit and then trying to understand the wordplay.

59. Gorilla @58

    Each to his own. Not long ago we had a puzzle themed around an obscure Incredible String Band album…. (not the one I’ve got, unfortunately!)

60. Gorilla @58

    Good point.  That’s why I personally prefer ‘ghost’ themes to open themes – i.e. where no hint of a theme is given in the clues, and you don’t even need to realise there’s a theme until you’ve completed the puzzle.  Like yesterday’s, which could be solved by someone who’d never heard of the Beatles (I’m not quite that ill-informed though 🙂 ).

    On the other hand, many people like a puzzle that deliberately sets out to tax their GK (general knowledge).  Let them have their moments!

61. Laccaria (and Gorilla)

    I agree that yesterday’s theme was much less intrusive. However it’s the “less intrusive” themes that I generally miss! (though I did see yesterday’s, in fact).

62. Oh dear, thought 29ac was going to be HANDEL…

63. Glad I had time for this, as classical music is my passion.  I think I have recordings of all the composers mentioned.

    Marienkaefer@40: A slight correction  Webern is a favourite composer of mine and I’ve even gone as far as reading a very large biography of him.  According to that, he wasn’t shot by a sniper.  The war was over by then, anyway.  He and his wife had been evacuated to a village in the Alps where his daughter and son-in-law also lived.  The son-in-law was involved in the black market and had made approaches to a cook at a nearby US army base.  The cook told his superiors and the MPs took the cook along to pay a visit.  Webern was visiting when they got there, so he went into a room where his grandchildren were sleeping.  Meanwhile, the cook was told to stand guard outside while the MPs confronted the son-in-law.  Webern had been given a cigar by the son-in-law and didn’t want to smoke it in the children’s room. so he stepped out and bumped into the cook who panicked and shot him.

64. I would have preferred “…an effect of music” as definition of VIBRATO rather than “…the effect…” but my only (small) quibble.
    I found this straightforward and, for Paul, rather bland. (Though I may just be in a bad mood this week. I actually found Imogen’s puzzle rather boring which I’ve never felt before; haven’t even bothered to look at the blog, perhaps time to take a break from some cryptics for a while…?)
    I did quite enjoy MIDWINTER, NEIGHBOUR and UPHOLSTER though.
    Thanks to Eileen and Paul

65. [laccaria@51 – thanks for your comment about RAVEL and STONED. I shall add them to my list of Janus (and quasi-Janus) words such as dust, cleave, sanction, hysterical, nervy, avaunt, owlish, teem, secrete etc.]

66. William @65

    [This is outrageously late, I’m afraid, but I was fascinated by your long list of Janus words (and I liked your apt name for them).  I only knew (or rather realised up to now) that stoned, sanction and cleave had that property.  Secrete came as a surprise, but of course I can now see how this word is two-faced.]

Comments are closed.