The puzzle can be solved online here.
Boatman has provided us with quite a challenge this morning. I managed to solve the puzzle, but the parsing of many of the answers came much later in some cases, and not at all in the case of 22ac.
Some clues were brilliant (5dn, 14dn and 15dn come to mind), but others were, in my opinion, too convoluted (2dn and 6dn, for example) or some of the indications too vague (Z for “last” in 2dn, “th” in 22dn, eg), and I don’t think the otherwise very clever 16ac works at all.
This is typical Boatman fare, though, so the good clues tend to be VERY good, so I can forgive him some of his “foibles”.
Thanks, Boatman.
PS – Any help on the parsing of 22ac would be greatly appreciated.
| Across | ||
| 9 | AEROSPACE | Industry for high flyers rapidly embracing lust (9) |
| APACE (“rapidly”) embracing EROS (“lust”) | ||
| 10 | PHONE | Call to reduce phobias (as justice ought to be) on Tyneside (5) |
| PHO(bias) (“justice should have “no bias”) on N.E. (North East, so “Tyneside”) | ||
| 11 | DAZZLED | Hypnotised with spots of light instead of softly snoring (7) |
| DA(pp)(ZZ)LED (“with spots of light” = DAPPLED, but the PP (“softly”) is replaced with ZZ (“snoring”)) | ||
| 12 | TACITLY | Without a word of thanks, left in London? (7) |
| TA (“thanks”) + L(eft) in CITY (“London”) | ||
| 13 | LONGS | In bonds, hopes (5) |
| Double definition, the first being gilt-edged securities in finance. | ||
| 14 | BOTTLE CAP | Fortitude beside explosive device found at highest level on vessel (6,3) |
| BOTTLE (“fortitude”) beside CAP (“explosive device”) | ||
| 16 | SEVEN DEADLY SINS | They include envy, with idle sadness in some versions (5,6,4) |
| *(envy idle sadness) Although I can see what Boatman is doing in this clue, I don’t think it works as envy is doing double duty as it is required for the solution and for the anagram fodder. Had the clue been an &lit. it might have worked, but sadness is not a deadly sin, so the clue is not an &lit. in my opinion. | ||
| 19 | DISLODGES | Dog sled is worked in shifts (9) |
| *(dog sled is) | ||
| 21 | MOOLI | Eastern root of many outsiders ornamenting life in capitals (5) |
| Capitals of Many Outsiders Ornamenting Life In
A mooli is a radish-like root vegetable. |
||
| 22 | RANCHER | He employs cowboys with spurs, no nonsense, wiser at last (7) |
| Can’t parse this one, sorry. | ||
| 23 | BIRYANI | Dish sent back, Boatman saying: “No meat” (7) |
| <= I NAY RIB (“Boatman” + “no” + “meat”, all sent back) | ||
| 24 | FIRST | 22 down’s confused, where victory lies in virtue (5) |
| *(rift’s) (“22 down’s”) (V (“victory”) is the first letter of VIRTUE, so V lies first in virtue) | ||
| 25 | EVERGREEN | Always strong and stable but inside loveless, therefore concerning (9) |
| EVEN (“but”), with ERG(o) (“therefore”, loveless) + RE (“concerning”) inside, so EV(ERG(o)-RE)EN | ||
| Down | ||
| 1 | VANDALISED | Destroyed by devils and a radicalised … (10) |
| *(devils and a) | ||
| 2 | BREZHNEV | … Soviet leader, restoring Ivan the Terrible, last letters of literati lost (8) |
| (vnherbe + Z), which is what’s left after you remove the letters of “literati” from “Ivan the Terrible” and add Z (“last”)
Too convoluted, and Z for last? |
||
| 3 | PSALMS | Small change to charity creating sacred music (6) |
| Ps (pennies, so “small change”) to ALMS (“charity”) | ||
| 4 | MAID | Slothful doctor gets home help (4) |
| MD (“doctor”) full of AI (“sloth”) | ||
| 5 | BEATITUDES | Jesus’ words of comfort for the poor in spirit etc: “Go and renegotiate dues!” (10) |
| BEAT IT (“go”) + *(dues) | ||
| 6 | EPICALLY | Heroically, ecstatically proletarian: no hothead, no alternative (8) |
| E(u)P(h-or)ICALLY (“ecstatically”, with no U (non-U = “proletarian”), no H(ot) and no OR (“alternative) | ||
| 7 | POETIC | Looking up to quote work of lyrical quality (6) |
| <= CITE + OP.(us) (“to quote” + “work”, looking up) | ||
| 8 | SEXY | Soviet leader on former Axis: “It’s hot” (4) |
| S(oviet) on EX (“former”) + Y(-axis) | ||
| 14 | BEER GARDEN | Scene of overindulgence and wicked bare greed by name? (4,6) |
| *(bare green) + N(ame) | ||
| 15 | POSTILIONS | They guide the coach’s team after taking number one with pride (10) |
| POST (“after”) taking I (“number one”) with LIONS (“pride”) | ||
| 17 | NEOPHYTE | One freshly converted to make war, say (8) |
| *(one) + homophone of FIGHT and &lit. | ||
| 18 | ISOLATED | One unfortunate formerly embraced, then cut off (8) |
| I (“one”) + SOD (“unfortunate”) with LATE (“formerly”) embraced | ||
| 20 | SUNDRY | Some tabloid on showing temperance (6) |
| SUN (“tabloid”) on DRY (“showing temperance”) | ||
| 21 | MIRAGE | Note: wrath is an illusion (6) |
| MI (“note”) + RAGE (“wrath”) | ||
| 22 | RIFT | Losing some faith finally in prudence, causing split (4) |
| (th)RIFT (“prudence” having lost (fai)TH).
“Some faith finally” is too imprecise for my liking. |
||
| 23 | BRED | Raised Soviet leader to become first (4) |
| RED (“Soviet”) with B(ecome) first | ||
*anagram
For 22ac, is it ‘branches’ (spurs) without BS (nonsense) then ‘r’ (wiser at last)?
Thanks S&B. I think 22a is BRANCHES (spurs, botanically) less B[ull]S[hit] + [wise]R
Thanks Loonapic for putting me out of my misery. I did finish it but not without some hard core biffing. Too may vague indications (as you rightly point out) for my liking and absolutely agree about the convolution. EPICALLY is a prime example. A too can’t parse 22 ac. Will be interested to see what those cleverer than I can make of it.
Thanks Alison @1 we must have been typing simulateously
22a:(b)ranches(s) are spurs, minus bs for nonsense, plus r from end of wiser
Alison Copland@1-I reckon youre right, knowing Boatman-like BREZNHEV-pretty naff. Some other obscure but forgivable clues.
Otherwise quite fun with two mini themes competing!
Thanks Boatman & loonapick
Thanks for the explanation of 22ac – just couldn’t see it at all.
Not for me at all. I filled in all the grid correctly except 23a, but by that time I had lost the will to live trying to parse so many other solutions. Well done loonapick for managing to tease out so many.
Thank you Loonapick for a candid appraisal. I absolutely agree – too many too convoluted.
Having said that, some great thematic clues.
Thanks Loonapick, several parsings well over my head. On Googling it “sadness” was one of the 7 deadly sins until the 17th century when it was swapped for “sloth”. So it is an &lit clue IMO.
Thanks Boatman and loonapick
I didn’t enjoy most of this, as I have some sort of question mark against more than half the clues (mainly me not being able to parse the answers). I won’t mention most of them, but one I will; I’m not convinced that NEOPHYTE is &lit, and if it isn’t, “one” is doing double duty. (Oh, and I was sure that 11 was either dazzled or dappled, but couldn’t tell which from the clue, neither really meaning “hypnotised”.)
I did like PHONE, POETIC and BRED.
Quite a mixed bag. I liked BRED, FIRST, NEOPHYTE, BEATITUDES, DAZZLED, and favourite MAID. Of those I didn’t like, EPICALLY and BREZHNEV are ahead of the others by a country mile. I might have got to the bottom of BREZHNEV if I’d sat staring at it till Christmas, but never EPICALLY. Proletarian as an instruction to take U out of an unknown synonym of a word in the clue that has all but one of the letters in the solution in the right order? WTBF? B is blithering, BTW.
For what it’s worth, I think ‘stable’ rather than ‘but’ gives even in EVERGREEN
Also, SEVEN DEADLY SINS works fine if you take the definition as ‘they include envy’, recognize it as an anagram clue with a pretty obvious solution and quickly move on.
Thanks Boatman, and hats off to Loonapick
I forgot to ask – why is a BEER GARDEN a “scene of overindulgence”?
definitely a mixed bag for me too but helped to fill in some time stuck indoors while the snow continues to fall outside
I did like 21a and a couple of others, but I’d agree with others views on some of the more convoluted clues
Thanks to Boatman and loonapick too
I agree with those who found this unsatisfying. I managed about three quarters, with several unparsed, and reached the stage where I couldn’t be bothered with the rest. Several clues were, as my mum would have put it, too clever by half. On the other hand, I did like BEATITUDES – one I probably wouldn’t have got if my mum hadn’t dragooned me to church and Sunday school all those years ago. 🙂
Thanks, loonapick and Alison Copland, for explaining.
Thank you to loonapick and others who contributed the parsing of 22a. I usually like Boatman’s offerings, but this threw me. I completed the puzzle, but the whole SE corner was really trial and error.
Even when I was pretty confident of having filled the grid correctly, there were too many I couldn’t parse (22a, 25a, 2d, 6d, 22d). Of these, I think 22a and 25a are fair – I just couldn’t see them – but 2d and 6d feel excessively convoluted and I definitely agree with loonapick that 22d is imprecise.
On the other hand, a few beauties. Although I see the objections to 16a, I think it reads well, and it’s actually one of my favourites from this offering.
Got started on this way too late in my day and was really too tired to have a serious attempt at it. The only one I solved on first run through was MIRAGE. I doubt that I could have solved this one even if I had started it this morning but I enjoyed reading the blog anyway.
Thank you loonapick
Thank you Loonapick & All. I think I’ll have to accept that there were a few too many convolutions here for most people’s taste – if I was looking at it from your point of view, I’d probably have said that one or two clues like 2 Dn and 6 Dn are ok (if a little trying) but that it shouldn’t feel as though that sort of thing was taking over the whole puzzle.
Alison and Andrew – You’re spot on in your parsing of 22 Ac.
AndyS @10 – That’s the point, exactly! I wasn’t brought up on any kind of religion, other than the type that takes place in school assembly halls, so when I starting researching this theme I thought that I’d find an accepted list of seven sins and seven virtues … but, no, it’s a lot more fluid than that! The idea that the mediaevals considered sadness to be a sin was new to me and worth noting, I thought. Then, when I saw the possible anagram, there was no turning back …
I enjoyed this although agree with reservations on certain clues. EPICALLY passed me by. Personally BREZHNEV worked for me, just could’ve done with the Z being a bit less ambiguosly clued. And I dont see the problem with the main SDS clue. Was a shame gluttony didn’t appear for a full sinful septet, but uses of theme words in MAID and POSTILIONS were great.
Thanks to Boatman and loonapick
Thanks to Boatman for a tough but enjoyable challenge and loonapick et al for explaining some parsing. I could not parse Brezhnev, maid or rancher and a few others were guess and parse in retrospect. Started off slowly and continued at a slow pace, but eventually completed the grid. Got held up on neophyte by thinking it could be neoblast and last ones in rancher, biryani and bred. That said still enjoyable overall and thanks again Boatman and loonapick.
i’ll never get that wasted hour back
Thanks to Boatman: very decent of you to come in and comment on your own puzzle.
I liked that religious theme, with my favourites 16a SEVEN DEADLY SINS (although I can see the objections to having anagram fodder in the definition), 3d PSALMS and 5d BEATITUDES, plus several references to vices and virtues in other clues. (That being said, it did seem a little jarring that the anti-religious “Soviet leaders” formed a little sub-theme.
I thought it was more a matter of me being thick that I couldn’t parse some of my guesses from the crossers, and I think it was in a few cases, so I agree with other comments: once some clues were explained by either loonapick or others, they made sense. But yes, as even Boatman admitted, 2d BREZHNEV and 6d EPICALLY didn’t quite work (clunky surfaces, and I just couldn’t see the wordplay).
I did not know 21a MOOLI which was still gettable – and I like learning new vocabulary – but again, what can that surface possibly mean?
Because it was a Boatman and I generally like the puzzles he sets, I kept chipping away, but really I was not satisfied that, in the end, the great clues were enough to provide a counterbalance to the ones I couldn’t parse or fully appreciate.
Mind you, I remain grateful for the work that goes into setting and blogging, so thanks to Boatman and loonapick. I couldn’t possibly set or solve the way you folk do: my brain is just not clever enough, so thank you.
Crossed against others in my comments. Logorrhoea!
I have to say that Boatman’s name does not fill me with enthusiasm these days. This was not as difficult as it seemed at first glance but some of the parsings were pretty trick(s)y
Thanks to Boatman and loonapick
Meph @ 19 – Gluttony was originally part of the clue for 14 Dn, but Hugh felt that “overindulgence” was essentially the same sin but more appropriately expressed, as part of an activity that’s likely to be found in a beer garden – and it works all the better if you think of temperance as the corresponding virtue. So, you have (in the order in which they appear in the clues) lust, envy, sloth, overindulgence, greed, pride and wrath. And then, to counterbalance that, you have justice, hope, fortitude, charity, temperance, faith and prudence … but then you spotted that, didn’t you ?!
Didn’t feel quite so cross and frustrated with today’s puzzle after Boatman came on here and explained a few things. Floundered about with this for ages…
And of course, the abbreviation ‘bs’ has been in the news recently, thanks to Emma Gonzalez, Florida schoolgirl ‘calling bs’ on the gun lobby
Thanks to Boatman and loonapick. I always have difficulty with this setter and this puzzle was no exception. After a struggle I did get BREZHNEV, RANCHER, and NEOPHYTE but there and elsewhere I was often relying on guesswork rather than parsing. Definitely out of my comfort zone.
If ever there were an anagram of this, this was it. What a pile of rot.
I’m afraid that if you cannot write with basic crosswording principles securely in place, then no amount of tomfoolery is going to bail you out, and you end up presenting something as unintelligible and witless as this.
Such an annoying puzzle, and the worst sort really — difficult through sheer writer’s incompetence.
Many thanks boatman and loonapick.
I missed slothful but managed the rest. I was misled by “with Spurs” which suggested branched to me, but obviously it had to be branches to allow subtraction of BS, so with had to be a link.
I thought the seven deadly sins theme was clever, though like loonapick 16a took me out of my comfort zone, I had to come here to realise that it could be a semi &lit with sadness.
Enjoyable puzzle, thanks again.
Thanks Loonapick for the effort you obviously put into this. I have a longstanding ambivalence to Boatman’s offerings, debating with myself if discovering the few gems inevitably hidden in each puzzle are worth the excruciating untangling of much of the briar they are hidden in. Unlike the favoured trio mentioned in recent days, I always have a sense that Boatman sets to show off rather than to entertain. I think Median@15’s Mum has it about right. But the fact that Boatman turns up to elucidate and defend his clueing is very welcome and disarming. I feel churlish for criticising something which he clearly spent a considerable effort on. But to answer his last question (at the time I started typing) – no I didn’t spot the variations of the 7 sins and virtues because I was knee-deep in the thorns trying to extract the letters of literati from various combinations of anagram fodder and trying in vain to comprehend what ‘proletarian’ could possibly be doing mid-clue.
On the other hand, I found 22ac RANCHER, succinct, clever and amusing.
When I saw Boatman’s I was looking forward to the challeng and when 1d went straight in I thought I was off to the races, but was soon brought down to earth. My comments would be the same as most contributors, with JinA expressing perfectly for me as usual.
I had a wrong answer having bunged in an unparsed CERTITUDES for BEATITUDES, but as it joined a list of unparsed clues (and didn’t really meet the definition) I let it go.
Many thanks to Boatman for contributing and taking the comments on board (haha) and for explaining the full extent of the theme. And thanks and loonapick for sterling work on the blog.
Perhaps it’s rather sad that Boatman has to come along to defend his clues. Unless he is a masochist.
The sound you hear folks is Afrit spinning in his grave
Many thanks Loonapick and Boatman.
I thoroughly enjoyed this and finally managed to parse the
grid I’d come up with, but I am more than a little mulish in
my stubborness (is this a sin?). I did take an H and an OR
out of Heroically and inserted a P for proletarian and used
the ‘ecstatically’ as an anagram indicator; the non-U euphoria elluding me.
Being where I am, I have a few devout students and the sins
and virtues (whose equal weight in the puzzle was delightful)
often crop up. I’ll keep this puzzle as a mnemonic !
Thanks again.
Yeah. Finished it but wasn’t fun. A few that were obviously correct and parsing was a chore (longs, Brezhnev, rancher + others).
Thanks for the challenge Boatman, and for putting your oar in so to speak.
A real mixed bag that I completed quite quickly, having left far too many unparsed. With some puzzles I would take it on the chin and accept the setter had the better of me, rather than get all hedgehoggy about it, but I did feel some of these were a touch over-complex: BREZHNEV, RANCHER and EPICALLY in particular.
Until I came onsite, I had been too slothful to look up the AI part of MAID; now I have, and as a result today has been another learning day (how could I get to age 63 and not know about AI the sloth? And how useful could it be in future?)
As for RANCHER, I was defeated as others were, but I’m extra disappointed as a Spurs supporter not to spot spurs as bRANCHEs minus bs etc.
By way of balance, I liked BRED, BEATITUDES, FIRST and SUNDRY among others; thanks to Boatman and loonapick.
Came to the party late today, so everything has already been said.
For me it was a quick and entertaining solve.
I thought some of the criticism rather harsh.
Thanks to Boatman and to loonapick.
@ Boatman 36
Incredibly I didn’t spot the virtues… Best not wonder how that reflects on my character!
Thanks for an enjoyable puzzle.
I was looking for a ghost theme after putting in SEVEN DEADLY SINS (which was my FOI, as it happens) – but was disappointed! I don’t usually trawl the clues for keywords – sorry! Seem to recall, last time we had a lot of ‘fishy’ clues. Next time perhaps, Ashley?
Oh and my non-parser and, effectively, DNF reason, was EPICALLY (finally wrote in after a lot of ‘check’s). I’m getting accustomed to Boatman’s style of wordplay (even if others aren’t) but this one defeated me. I don’t really like the fact that the last six letters are the same as those of two words in the clue. Sorry, that’s a no-no for me. The rest, I thought, was fine. I don’t have a problem with SEVEN DEADLY SINS, I do see it as an &lit – I believe ‘Idleness’ is one of them so why not ‘Idle sadness’? No? Oh well, I’m no good at this Bible stuff! 🙂
I thought BIRYANI was especially good, because it gave me a lot of trouble albeit quite simple once you see it! I was toying with “teryaki” but was sure it is spelt “teriyaki”.
The other disappointment (aside from the DNF) is to come here and see the number of hostile, completely non-constructive comments put in (anonymously of course) by contributors whose only objective, so it seems, is to have a pop at Boatman whenever he breaks surface. How does this enhance, add value to, the 225 site? It would be great if folks adopted Thumper’s immortal principle “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say nothing at all”! But I suppose I’m speaking to a brick wall here… 🙁
Thanks to Boatman and loonapick.
I have the same reservations as many others, particularly with 2 and 6. Boatman can be relied upon to push the envelope, but this one’s been pushed a little too far IMHO.
Some goodies to enjoy though. My faves were TACITLY, SEVEN DEADLY SINS (thanks to commenters for explaining the &litt), EVERGREEN, MAID and POSTILIONS.
Thanks to Boatman for revealing all the thematic references. I’m a little surprised that he didn’t make something of the DIS = underworld link in 19. “Shifts in hotels in Hades?” or some such.
Thanks, Boatman and loonapick (really needed the help with EPICALLY).
@40: I disagree with your last assertions Laccaria.
It would not be worth contributing to this site if it was always in praise of the setter. I also like to think that negative comments are as useful to the compiler as positive ones.
I think there was only one comment that some might find unacceptable (I confess it amused me).
It is also a bit of encouragement to less experienced solvers to see that even the ‘experts’ failed to parse several answers.
I rarely make more than one comment a day on this site, but I do feel some of the criticism of Boatman I have seen, Is to me, unjustified. Surely solving cryptic crosswords is about both lateral thinking and ” thinking outside of the box “. I agree that some of the clues were difficult and in some cases a bit convoluting, but is that not the nature of the game? I am not in the same league as some of the solvers I have seen comment, and struggled to complete the crossword, but also enjoyed the challenge and would not be over unhappy if I did not complete. My message to Boatman is “keep up the good work”.
Dear old Laccaria. What a sweet untroubled life you must lead.
This was an absolute stinker of a puzzle. There are so many things to quibble at. Sorry at which to quibble. Plainly I struggled and finally gave in to this site to finish the last few. So sour grapes perhaps. But so much obscurity and unlikely synonyms in one puzzle is hardly forgiveable. I have worked in the city for 30 years and never heard bonds referred to as longs. Bottle as fortitude, Eros for lust. I got those by the way. So I stick to my premise from last week that this site encourages setters to be more and more obscure just to satisfy a tiny proportion of solvers. And meanwhile any potential convert starting out will stare at this one and give up in total failure. Never to return.
Pex@40 – you misunderstand me. I don’t see a problem with negative comments addressing a particular clue or clues (as I did, with EPICALLY – did you read what I posted?). But I don’t really see the point of making remarks like: “If ever there were an anagram of this, this was it. What a pile of rot” or “i’ll never get that wasted hour back” – without mentioning any actual clues.
There’s a simple remedy to all this!
TC@44: quote: “Dear old Laccaria. What a sweet untroubled life you must lead.”
If only that were true! I turn to cryptics to take my mind over other, more troubling, things in my life. Perhaps I’m a better solver than others on here, but who am I to judge myself? Let others do that. I try to be honest: if I DNF I say so. As it happened, today’s was a DNF because I had to try out various letters and then use ‘check’. If I ‘cheat’ I call it a DNF.
And there are other clues which I’m not entirely at home with. I puzzled for a while over whether BOTTLE CAP was in fact BOTTLE TOP – seeing as the latter is the commoner phrase – but I couldn’t equate TOP with something explosive. But the really sneaky wordplay (like in PHONE – my LOI apart from EPICALLY) and DAZZLED – I admire those for their sheer brilliance!
Anyway, to go on to your closing remark, I disagree that this site ‘encourages setters to be more obscure’. Didn’t Rufus give the lie to that hypothesis? And surely our new (and very welcome) setter Vulcan didn’t tax the solvers over-much, yesterday! I did say, yesterday, that I found it very much at the easy end of the spectrum – why should I not? – but I did go on to comment about one or two clues I liked.
I know Boatman is – well, Boatman. He has long set crosswords in his own inimitable style. He always has done (I have his book in front of me as I write this). He doesn’t contribute many in a year, unlike other setters he has a day job. Of course he’s going to have his detractors.
All I’m asking is – and this is true for any setter – if you don’t like a specific clue, mention it in your post!
I’m in agreement with 15’s mum; too clever by half. Yes, we do all enjoy being challenged but there comes a point where the pleasure escapes and that was the case for me today. I got to within two answers but then gave up and looked up the solution. “Biryani” I would never have got. “Maid” I’d written in unparsed. Home can indicate so many letters in an answer and so can “doctor.” And “ai” for sloth I’d just forgotten. But I do sympathise with setters who give us so much pleasure and can never get it right. Some solvers are world-class experts. Some are doing their first cryptic crossword. You simply cannot please us all. So even though you get criticised we are very grateful for the skill and effort you put into “puzzling” us every day.
I agree with a couple of the criticisms of the clues here. And I’d add another. Proletarian does not equate with “non-U” for me either in the Ancient Roman or the Marxist senses. In Roman times the proletariat were just one of six classes. Several of the others would have been classed as non-U, surely. Many capitalists in the Marxist sense are non-U in Mitford terms. I did write the right answer in for this one but as no more than a probability.
Crimper@29
Yes, it’s legitimate to say that Boatman can be over-complicated at times, but I felt your rant was completely uncalled for. To accuse the setter of being witless is in itself an example of witlessness. People set clues, other people try to solve them. Either you can or you can’t: it’s as simple as that.
@45 – yes I did read what you posted and I usually agree with your comments. What I was disagreeing with was your quote in italics: “If you cant say something nice…”.
Regarding the remarks you refer to, they are people who have had the courage to express their understandable frustration with the puzzle in general in a slightly amusing way.
My experience of this crossword, and my thoughts about it, were similar to Julie’s (JinA @22). I normally appreciate Boatman’s trademark inventiveness, but today there were seven clues that I solved without parsing and failed to parse even when I revisited them. Like muffin @13, I questioned why BEER GARDEN should be a ‘scene of overindulgence’.
Nevertheless several clues were excellent and made it worth the effort to finish.
Thanks Boatman and loonapick.
Alan B @50
I wonder if Boatman was conflating it with “bear garden”?
I wasn’t too sure about BEER GARDEN either. According to Wiki, the term originates in Germany. And whatever else German folk may be up to, I reckon they drink more responsibly, and hold their liquor better, than their Britischer counterparts!
Laccaria: OK, I’ve just re-read the rant that Gert Bycee (48) refers to and I agree with him (and you to some extent).
I guess I am in the minority by saying that I enjoyed this puzzle, with only a few quibbles. I may also be in the minority by saying that a large part of the fun for me was that I spotted, early on, the fact that the seven deadly sins and the seven heavenly virtues were hiding somewhere in the surfaces, and it was enjoyable tracking them all down (including the lightbulb moment of realizing that the “missing” sin on the list, gluttony, was in there after all, under the synonym of “overindulgence”). I think, though, that Boatman’s effort to work all 14 words into the clueing resulted in some of the surfaces being a bit overwrought. Like other commenters above, I struggled with the parsing of EPICALLY (which I had to come here to get) and BREZHNEV, but I was more successful with BOTTLE CAP and RANCHER, which ended up being my two favorite clues.
Blanchflower1961 @37 – in answer to your question, “how useful could it [knowing that AI = sloth] be in future?”, I wanted to mention that the only place I have encountered this term has been in the game of Scrabble, in which it is very useful near the end of the game when you have an A or an I that you are trying to get onto the board. I have seen this used multiple times over the years (and I am not even a frequent player of Scrabble).
Many thanks to Boatman and loonapick and the other commenters.
Phew – that was a struggle and I’ve only just finished at at 8.30pm, after getting stuck on the SE corner. Like others I couldn’t parse a few clues, but loved AEROSPACE, DAZZLED, BOTTLE CAP and BREZHNEV (yes, rather convoluted but very satisfying when you got it). Many thanks to Boatman and loonapick.
I agree with Gert Bycee@48 that Crimper’s comment @29 is completely out of order. It was a perfectly fine puzzle in its own way. Viva Boatman!
After yesterday’s success I was brought crashing back to earth today! Not one for the novice solver, this. Still, always good to challenge oneself.
1961Blanchflower – My apologies for referring to you above (Me @54) with the elements of your name in the wrong sequence. (To call up a recent 15^2 discussion of whether two things can form a sequence.)
Just to add some balance, I liked the crossword and didn’t find anything unfair or obscure.
McDave @ 57 No problem, and thanks for confirming the “two element sequence” question; I was actually one of those who posted in support of that clue.
I didn’t find anything ‘too obscure’, apart from bottle cap and epically, which aren’t ‘dictionarial’ phrases (allow me that), but unfortunately there were quite a few unfair clues, some really quite stretched definitions (why, for example, should a beer garden be a ‘scene of overindulgence’ sic), and some very dodgy cryptic work. I had issue with 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 16, 21, 22, 23, 24 & 25 across, and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 14, 15, 17, 18, 22, and 23 down.
I think the essence of crossword-making is to come forward and address the given word, rather than run scared from it as Boatman seems to do. This was the most appalling slop.
I thought this was awful!
Night all.
Most of you seem to be taking this far too seriously, I look at crossword after buying it, look at the setter and say that might be challenging, and if it is, well yeah,
I thought it was very good indeed and would hate to be deprived of occasional toughies to balance the easy Mondays.
[Having returned to this the next day, I feel compelled to put these further thoughts out into the ether, while fully aware that they will probably not be read by anyone else so late in the piece.]
Given that no-one on the forum prior to the comment@25 had come up with the full list of “seven vices/sins and seven virtues”, I am very surprised at the level of criticism mounted by some commentators, but moreover I am upset by the disdainful tone of some of the posts that have appeared.
So, you have (in the order in which they appear in the clues) lust, envy, sloth, overindulgence, greed, pride and wrath. And then, to counterbalance that, you have justice, hope, fortitude, charity, temperance, faith and prudence (Boatman@25).
It is pretty darned clever to be able to construct a crossword that includes all those concepts in some way, in clues or solutions.
I repeat, I have a lot of respect for those who set and blog these challenges for us.
Hear hear! Julie in A.
Someone’s still here.
I second our Italian friend: Hear Hear, Julie!!
Me too, Julie!
Mr Bayleaf and I are very late to the party. The snow was a distraction yesterday. We found this hard and at times frustrating, but Mr B reckons it’s like going to see modern art in a gallery. You may not immediately like everything you see, but it’s enriching to be given a new and challenging perspective. Very few of us would only want to look at classical paintings.
I agree entirely, Julie @64, especially your observation.
“It is pretty darned clever to be able to construct a crossword that includes all those concepts in some way, in clues or solutions.”
which I could and feel I should have said in my own way when I commented earlier. My full appreciation of the ghost theme, by the way, came only from reading comments on this page by Boatman and others.
I’m with the “this was awful”/ “appaling slop” crowd.
Finished this this morning but didn’t parse a couple.
Even the “correct” parsing is exceedingly dodgy in a lot of cases.
Sorry Boatman having recently come off my blacklist of setters you are now firmly back on it.
Hello Julie@64.
Yes, some of us are still around, and thank you once again for your measured contributions.
I agree with you that that there should be no place for downright rude comments, and, perhaps, I should not have said, jocularly, in my earlier posting that trying to parse many of the very convoluted clues left me without ‘the will to live’, but I regret to say that Boatman’s style persistently fails to entertain me. I thought that some of his more recent puzzles were a little less arcane, and better for it (for me), but this offering seems to have reverted to his most tortured.
I also agree that there were many very good clues, and that the incorporation of the theme was quite an achievement, but that did not make it an enjoyable experience for me, personally, as a solver.
Of course, the puzzles of different compilers appeal to different solvers, and I am very pleased for those who warm to Boatman’s style. I would certainly not want the editor to reject them because they are not to my taste, but I feel a lift to my spirits when I see that the puzzle has been set by the likes of Picaroon, Arachne, Nutmeg or Orlando (to mention just a few) which does not occur when I see the names of some other setters. I know that it is not compulsory to attempt the crossword if you feel that it will not be one you like, but the optimist in me always hopes for better things and, as I have said, I did think that, either through choice or editorial intervention, some of Boatman’s more recent puzzles have been less frustrating to attempt to parse.
Greetings from a snowy England.
Greetings from a soon-to-be-snowy Connecticut. I’m with Julie. It’s quite legitimate to object to certain clues if you don’t like them, but the tone of some of these objections has been unnecessarily unpleasant. If a clue is too obscure or too convoluted, fair enough, but stop it there. I thought loonapick set a good balance with the commentary at the beginning, and I wish others had followed that example.
I enjoyed solving this and managed to parse all save EPICALLY (thanks, Loonapick) but agree that B seems to have abandoned the newfound elegance I had sensed he was developing. I spotted all 14 vices/virtues and ticked SEVEN DEADLY SINS – twice! Any doubts that it was an &lit disabused by the “in some versions” justifying “sadness” – great clue.
However – and this is highly unusual for me – I did have justifiable quibbles (in my opinion, of course) that others haven’t mentioned. To wit:
11ac) In wordplay should not ‘pp’ be ‘very softly’ rather than ‘softly’?
21ac) Are not ‘capitals’ a reference to UPPER case letters only?
17d) Not an &lit in my opinion since NEOPHYTEs are not obliged to fight, surely? So “one” has to do double duty – messy.
Shame – whether one likes Boatman’s style or otherwise, he isn’t usually so careless.
But still enjoyable.
Many thanks both and all.
I’m late getting to this, but I have a question if anyone is still around: What is “saying” doing in 23a? I thought it was a homophone indicator, but there’s no homophone as far as I can see. I’m almost inclined to think that the correct answer should be an alternative spelling such as “biriani”, just so that there’s a need for a homophone indicator.
I share others’ frustration with this puzzle as a whole. I managed to finish it, but with remarkably many unparsed. I do appreciate Boatman coming here to discuss the puzzle, particularly when the comments were overall quite negative.
Hi Ted, dont know why I’m still here but I am.
As I see it the setter is saying in the First Person ‘I nay rib’. Better for me if it was a Scotsman rather that a Boatman saying it though.
Hi. Been doing the Guardian cryptics for years but only recently found this site. Could someone explain what &lit means please?
Also reference yesterday’s puzzle why is ‘ai’ a sloth.Thanks. Pete.
The Stanchion —
Welcome!
An ai is a type of sloth. &lit is a term for a cryptic clue in which the entire clue can be read as both definition and wordplay (as opposed to the typical clue in which the two components are separate).
pex @75 — I suppose that might be the intention, but it seems pretty contrived to me. Anyway, it’s better than anything I came up with. Thanks!
I enjoyed a lot of the clues, but I think this is a perfect example of why themes should be in the answers, not the clues.
Having read the comments, I am pleased that although I couldn’t parse some clues, I nearly solved this puzzle.
Please forgive me if I am being dense, but why is ‘mi’ a note? Is that because it is an abbreviation for’minute’?
Piyush Ojha@80
Think “do-re-mi”.
Of course! Thanks, loonapick!
Thanks for the explanations Ted.