Guardian 27,451 – Shed

63 comments on “Guardian 27,451 – Shed”

1. My heart always sinks when I see the word mineral as it always means that I’m going to have to work it out from the word play and check with Google.  Thus it was with CHALCEDONY.  I also didn’t know EGESTA and hadn’t heard of Mr CRUMB. ULAN BATOR took me back to my days in international banking when we would sit in Reading processing transactions involving many exotic and far flung corners of the world.  I wonder if any setter would be up for setting a clue for OUAGADOUGOU?

   Nicely clued puzzle. Thanks Shed and Andrew

2. Thans Shed and Andrew

   A fairly easy solve. I was lucky that CHALCEDONY was a write-in for me! I didn’t know the cartoonist CRUMB, but it was a well-constructed clue. I toyed with ROSETTA for 18d, but decided that, although he had composed the music for The Godfather, Nino Rota couldn’t be considered a “tough composer”, and “endlessly” would be unaccounted for. “Composer set in stone” would be quite a good clue for ROSETTA.

   I initially thought ARCANE for 5d, but couldn’t account for the E, so corrected it.

   I wasn’t convinced that “getting” works for 25a, as it suggests either a front or back addition, or an inclusion, whereas it’s just an anagram (as indicated by adjusted).

   When studying ‘O’ level History (long ago) I wrote the essay “Why did the Anti Corn Law League succeed while the Chartists failed” three times under exam conditions – 4th year end-of-year, Mock and actual exam. I put my pass down to this!

   Favourites were ANCIENT and DIVEST.

3. [Most will know this, but, just in case, “emmet” is a Cornish dialect word for “ant”, also applied to “tourist”.]

4. New ones on Frankie the cat also new to me. An enjoyable start to the day. I toyed with MUMBLECORE for 24a for a second or two. Many thanks S&A.
   PS it’s snowing again here in the North West.

5. I rather liked CANNABIS. EGESTA and Mr. CRUMB were new to me but quite clear from the clues. Like muffin@2 I also put in arcane first before correcting it to ARCANA.

   Enjoyable puzzle but over too quickly.

   Thank you Shed and Andrew.

6. Fairly easy indeed but very enjoyable.   The only thing I didn’t know was the cartoonist but the wordplay was very helpful

   Thanks to Shed and Andrew

7. [Muffin@3 where I live, a bit further east along the coast, tourists are known as grockles. Sometimes I still feel like one after over 30 years in these parts.]

8. [In case Eileen drops in, a question. I was covering (for illness) a Latin class at school and idly looked at their text book. The very first sentence in Latin was

   “Cerberus est canis”.

   In the little Latin I did before dropping it for Chemistry (again, very long before), this would have been marked wrong because of the word order – we were told the verb should come last. Was this wrong?]

9. Once again, I’m with crypticsue  – I enjoyed the dog Latin. 😉

   Thanks to Shed and Andrew.

10. [Crossbar @7. I was brought up in North Devon. They were “grockles” there too!]

11. [Muffin@10 I’m in Dorset. So grockle is fairly widespread.]

12. Thanks Shed, Andrew

    I was confused by dog latin, thinking it was the same as pig latin which came up in a Boatman puzzle.  I couldn’t remember how pig latin worked, so was relieved I didn’t have to.  I liked that one and PLAINTIFF.

    Since ‘of’ seems to be the connecting word du jour, I think ROCK is probably ‘reliable sort’ and ‘music’

13. I also enjoyed the dog Latin, and SCARECROW and CALCIFICATION. Many thanks to Shed and Andrew.

14. An enjoyable solve for me – I was very pleased with myself that I could solve and parse all of the clues.

    I have heard of Robert Crumb and Ulan Bator, and I liked dog Latin.

    New for me was EGESTA but it was very fairly clued.

    Thanks Shed and blogger.

15. Hi muffin @8 – I recognise that book!

    I started to write an explanation but it became rather lengthy – then I found this  which explains things admirably, I think.

     

     

     

16. Exactly the same for me as michelle@14. Many thanks Shed and Andrew.

17. [Many thanks Eileen. More sophisticated than I ever reached; I only did two years of Latin, though exam-wise it was my best subject – I got 99% and 98%, but I recognised the downward trend!]

18. Martin @16

    as it does not happen every day, I was chuffed!

19. This must indeed have been a fairly easy one – not only did I finish it (the first one I’ve managed this week) but I did so in one sitting as opposed to my usual two or three bites at the cherry. For whatever reason I found (most of) the definitions quite easy to spot.

    Some lovely clues – too many to list – but I’d pick CANNABIS as my favourite of the day. At the other end of the scale I’d put CRUMB, as I’m not personally keen on clues which rely on general knowledge (except when I happen to possess it, of course).

     

20. Thanks both,

    Just before exams I used to tell my students to RTQ – read the question. As I had ‘arcane’ for 5d and ‘cymbal’ for 27a, I need to take my own advice and RTC.

    8d was CoD for me.

21. The NE corner went in fairly easily but then I got a bit stuck.

    LOI was CALCIFICATION, which I thought had a pretty silly clue. CRUMB was of course unknown but gettable from the wordplay.

    Thanks Shed and Andrew.

22. I always like Shed. I say it every time. I still do.

    CHALCEDONY was almost a write-in for me too, even though my geological knowledge is strictly limited. Why it was that this word was lodged in my brain, I don’t know – I can’t recall ever having used it, nor barely have seen reference to it. Perhaps it’s the rather nice scansion of its four syllables; that’s a good a reason as any.

23. Thanks to Shed for a very nice puzzle and Andrew for the blog. Most of this went in relatively steadily but then got held up in the SE. Another who was toying with Rosetta, but Dumbledore sorted that out. Another who did not know Crumb but relatively easy to sort out. Last ones in for me were Crumb, rubbery and symbol (though this seems obvious now). I had no problem with canis, but not from any great knowledge of Latin (one of my worst subjects at school). I got it for the Dog Stars. Thanks again to Shed and Andrew.

24. @12 If I recall correctly, in Farmer Giles of Ham, his dog Garm spoke “dog Latin”.

25. Didn’t know BERG the composer as the fodder for 18d RUBBERY, so that was a guess. LOI was the Mongolian capital, only discovered from the crossers and wordplay, though then when I filled it in, it did ring a bell. Like Michelle@14, I did remember Robert Crumb – for some mystifying reason I do remember the “Keep on Truckin'” cartoons (misspent youth?). I liked 24a DUMBLEDORE a lot, but my favourite was 16a ROCK. My dear old Mum would have turned 95 tomorrow had she still been with us (she lived to 92!): after all the storms she weathered in her life, she often referred to herself as “the rock of Gibraltar” – certainly a truly “reliable sort” for our family, and extended family, to lean upon.

    Thanks to Shed and Andrew, as well as other contributors (eg muffin for the extra on “emmet”).

26. This was a great example for me of how we get what we look for – in that we tend to notice things which confirm our (world) view. I saw Shed’s name and thought “I’m in for a challenge” and went through and got two solutions (SACHET and EGESTA – I didn’t know the word but it had to be the answer) on my first pass – thus evidencing my preconception of a tricky puzzle. I then went through again with more resolve (re-solve??) and got most of the NE and SW. Rather than persist I came to 225 and read Andrew’s intro which reset my world view and the NW went in, which left the SE where my experience was the same as PetHay@23 and which Mrs W helped finish off.

    As he’s death has brought his name to the fore again, Roger Bannister’s 4 minute mile is a perfect example of our mindset determining the outcome. Before he ran under 4 minutes it was believed to be impossible, as soon as he’d shown it was possible 20 (or so) people went under 4 minutes in the following 6 months. Both examples of cognitive bias writ large.

    All of which is of little direct relevance to the crossword, but the comments I would have made have already been written so I thought I’d go off at a tangent. Thanks to Shed and Andrew.

27. JinA – thanks for the connection back to the 60s – Felix the Cat and Keep on Truckin’ – didn’t they appear in Oz or IT? I didn’t realise the clue referred to that much appreciated subversive cartoonist! And a lovely reminiscence of your mum.

28. As his not as he’s

29. WhiteKing @27

    I think Crumb was “Fritz the cat”, not Felix – quite a different animal! I didn’t know who had drawn him, but I remember seeing the animated cartoon – the first X-rated one, as I remember.

30. After whizzing through most of this I became stuck in the SE with the (yet another) not immediately obvious composer and unknown cartoonist causing a bit of angst. Fortunately I was able to remember CHALCEDONY – I agree with Trailman @22 that the word has a nice lilt to it – and ’emmet’ from previous appearances in crossword land.

    I liked the ‘dog Latin’ even if I never could quite master those pesky third declension nouns.

    Thanks to Shed and Andrew

31. Good fun today.  I enjoyed DUMBLEDORE and CANNABIS, among others, but COTD for me was CALCIFICATION.  I agree with Robi @21 that it had a silly surface, but the obvious playfulness of the surface made this clue seem like a little puzzle unto itself.

    Many thanks to Shed and Andrew and the other commenters.

32. All pretty straightforward, though I did take a couple of minutes to find an opening. Shed’s clueing is always so precise that even the ones you don’t know tend to be the first deductions you look up (CRUMB was the only unknown for me, though EGESTA and CHALCEDONY were only distantly familiar). Favourite was CANNABIS.

    Thanks to Shed and Andrew

33. No big problems here – it being towards the end of the week I’d have liked something more of a challenge, but mustn’t grumble!  I didn’t know either CRUMB (=cartoonist) or EGESTA – I could see the latter straightaway, but wondered if EJECTA would parse somehow.  Oh well – at least I wrote the correct words in and then looked up…

    I nearly got caught out writing in ARCANE instead of ARCANA.  Looking back through the parsing I realised in time!  ARCANA is a word used mostly by those who dabble in Tarot, I think?  A field of ‘knowledge’ pretty much beyond my ken (although I’ve heard of the Fool, the Tower, the Hanged Man, the Devil, the Lovers, etc. etc….)

    My only other comment is, why HOST = “landlady”?  Is this another example of the Grauniad‘s PC-ness (viz. “actor”)?

    Thanks Shed and Andrew

34. CHALCEDONY was a first-in for me, assembled from the wordplay and vaguely familiar, though like Frankie I had to look it up to see exactly what it was.  I had a vague mental image of something white and translucent, which turned out to be right.  I’m with Trailman @22 — I don’t know why it stuck in my brain, it’s certainly not a word I ever use.

    I biffed in ARCANE because the headless whale defeated me.  Had to use the check button, which knocked out the E and put me right.

    I’d never heard of EGESTA, but it had to refer to the opposite of ingesting.

    Laccaria @33 — if the landlady is running a pub, I doubt she’d be referred to as a hostess.

    James @12 — “pig Latin” in pig Latin is “igpay atinlay”

    I knew that emmets were ants, I don’t think it’s just dialect.  I also know someone named Emmet.

    Thanks to Shed and Andrew.  Pleasant puzzle, educational blog.

     

     

35. For those not familiar with ‘Dog Latin’ (are there any out there?), here perhaps the most famous example, courtesy (allegedly) of Nigel Molesworth as any fule kno:

    Caesar adsum jam forte
    Brutus aderat
    Caesar sic in omnibus
    Brutus sic in at

36. Muffin@29 – thank you – you are right they are very different animals! I don’t like cats generally, and in particular don’t like how Felix cat food is marketed, but I loved what Fritz stood for (or against) back in the day.

37. Surprised that so many didn’t know CRUMB although I expect he’s somewhat politically incorrect these days.
    Quite a nice puzzle,even the words I didn’t know -EGESTA and CHALCEDONY- went in easily enough from the wordplay. I liked FABIAN and DUMBLEDORE.
    Thanks Brummie.

38. Suitable for a quiptic, I think.  The longer entries were all constructable from the wordplay.  I had a couple of holdouts near the end – SCARECROW (took a while to see sorrow = WOE and don’t generally like “from” as a linker), EGESTA (couldn’t believe it was a word at first) and DIVEST (looking for anatomical joints on first read through).  Other than that, all very straightforward.  Still, it’s always a pleasure to see Shed’s name above the puzzle.

    Thanks, S&B

39. muffin@8

    I’m at risk of being squashed -my last Latin lesson was O-level 1961.

    I was taught that word order determined style since for meaning it usually didn’t matter, but the verb was best at the end

    for “Cerberus est canis” both nouns would be nominatve and the word order does affect meaning.

    Since writing this I found Eileen’s reference, which is excellent but I don’t think it covered this case

40. DUMBLEDORE goes nicely with the emmet in 3d, as it’s an old dialect word for a bumblebee. Thomas Hardy uses it in a story about the village’s church musicians being displaced by a fashionable new harmonium: everyone agrees that they don’t like the sound it makes and that “harmoniums be miserable dumbledores.”

41. If you can have ‘the French’ for LE then ‘dog Latin’ seems quite okay for CANIS.

    We have to wait for Shed nowadays it seems, but always worth it.  I’ve been a fan of his for simply ages.

42. laccaria@35

    Wot a joy to stumble acros a fello alumnus of St Custards. I herby award yu the Mrs Joyful prize for rafia work.

    Hello clouds, hello sky, hello skool sosij

43. Just yu wat til you heer my renduring of “Fairy Bells” on the skool piano which will never be forgoten by those who hav heard it!  Yu hav ben warnd!

44. Hi Bart Edmondson @39 – I don’t want to labour this but, just to clarify: muffin’s sentence comes from the first page of the Cambridge Latin Course [it’s actually the sixth, rather than the very first, muffin 😉 ] where students are being introduced to the language [direct method] and Caecilius’ household in Pompeii, by a series of pictures, with a simple sentence underneath:

    1. Caecilius est pater.

    2. Metella est mater.

    3. Quintus est filius.

    4. Clemens est servus.

    6. Cerberus est canis.

    With a little guidance, students can work out the meaning, from some English derivatives, the fact that they probably know that ‘est’ = ‘is’ in French, and because English word order has helpfully  been used. It is not at all wrong to use this order in Latin – the meaning is not affected.  Students will learn later that the verb usually comes at the end, unless style or need for emphasis dictates otherwise, as described in the link.

45. Bart @39  But the two meanings would be “Cerberus is a dog” and “A dog is Cerberus,” which convey the same fact, if not quite the same feeling.

    We had a big dump of snow last night and I’m just in from my second round of shoveling with Margie from upstairs.  Probably one more to go.  It’s very wet and heavy snow.

    Me, I never got to know St. Custard’s.  I went to St. Trinian’s myself.

46. Eileen and other Latinists inspire me to re-post the following macaronic masterpiece (apologies to those who read it before and are tired of it)

    What is this that roareth thus?
    Can it be a Motor Bus?
    Yes, the smell and hideous hum
    Indicat Motorem Bum!
    Implet in the Corn and High
    Terror me Motoris Bi:
    Bo Motori clamitabo
    Ne Motore caedar a Bo—
    Dative be or Ablative
    So thou only let us live:—
    Whither shall thy victims flee?
    Spare us, spare us, Motor Be!
    Thus I sang; and still anigh
    Came in hordes Motores Bi,
    Et complebat omne forum
    Copia Motorum Borum.
    How shall wretches live like us
    Cincti Bis Motoribus?
    Domine, defende nos
    Contra hos Motores Bos!

47. Me @44 Oops, sorry – in case you’re wondering: 5. Grumio est coquus.

    Many thanks for the memories, Valentine. 😉

48. Valentine@45

    i was trying to say that there could be a syllogism if the word order was reversed

49. Tried to comment after completing this morning but the blog wasn’t up yet, then the day took over so I m coming to it very late but, I simply wanted to say that I thought it was a masterclass in precision clueing. Thanks to Shed

50. @St. Custard’s alumni

    A few years ago a Guardian columnist used “as any fule kno” without giving a context. I wrote and pointed out to him that a quick poll of the staffroom revealed only one other who recognised the source. I had a charming Email in return – I wish I’d kept it, but I remember he suggested a half-day off for us and extra prep for the rest!

    Eileen @44

    It was about 15 years ago – I’m surprised that I still remember the dog’s name 🙂

51. My favourite was always, ‘There is to the statue a broken nose’.. Quintus and an unfortunate incident with a discus I think. Sorry, Eileen, but the ability to safely translate it has long gone. Going down memory lane after reading your comments I found this: https://www.clc.cambridgescp.com/stage/clc/1
    It could be my next retirement project! After 40 years it may be a challenge too far but, as WhiteKing says, it’s all about the mindset.

52. Eileen @44 – My wife has fond memories of Caecilius, and in particular, the phrase ‘Caecilius in hortum est’

53. I seem to be one of the few who remembers Robert Crumb (and Honeybunch Kaminski) – evidence of a very old man with a horrendously misspent youth, perhaps!

    To muffin @8 and Eileen @15: “Quis multa gracilis te puer in rosa..” This is a fascinating explanation of how word order in Latin (or any highly inflected language) can work:

    http://www.pyrrha.rtwilson.com/pyrrha.html

    Had some fun with this one, but still couldn’t parse 24a because I had written in BUMBLEDORE. As you can probably guess, I am not a great fan of Harry Potter, or anything else that has interminable sequels…

    Thanks to Shed for the entertainment and Andrew for setting me straight (as usual!)

54. As a long time fan of Robert Crumb when I saw the word ‘cartoonist’ his was the first name that came to mind. I dismissed it, but on further investigation I realised it was indeed the creator of Mr Natural, Fritz the Cat, Bo Bo Bolinsky and many other characters from the comics and magazines I read in the late 60s/early 70s.
    I often read these BTL comments, whether or not I’ve completed the puzzle, but this is the first time I’ve got round to adding to them. As we recently retired to a cave in the mountains of Andalucia I hope to have more time to join in the discussions with the regulars on here.

55. Hi hedgehog @51 – that’s brilliant – thank you!

    Actually, it’s years since I had anything to do with the Cambridge Latin Course, so it might be rather different now – but at least we here seem to be all singing from the same hymn sheet.

    But I’m afraid [once a teacher…] I have to get my red pencil out to Uncleskinny’s  wife: it’s ‘in horto‘, I’m afraid – and it’s  servus who’s there [Caecilius est in tablino]  😉  And, Hedgehog, ‘there is to the statue a broken nose’ is a more advanced construction: on page 114 of Stage 1 it was simply ‘the statue had a broken nose’, after Quintus’s careless discus-throwing: [postquam Quintus discum demisit, discus statuam percussit. eheu! statua nasum fractum habebat. [I’d like to bet that those who never learned a word of Latin could decipher that. 😉 ]

    But now – I did say I didn’t want to labour this and, in view of my last comment on my blog of Paul’s Prize puzzle, I think it’s time to stop this or transfer it to General Discussion! [But I have enjoyed it – many thanks all for your indulgence. 😉

    PS – Trismegistus – refreshing before posting, I’ve just caught your comment but haven’t had time to pursue it – many thanks!

     

     

     

56. So this family have a cook, a gardener and a “servant” (who neither cooks nor gardens).  It reminds me of the Banks family in Mary Poppins.   Their house, we’re told, is a little shabby, because having four (then five) children makes it hard for them to afford to keep up their house and Mrs. Banks can’t think of doing without any of the children — but they have a cook, a maid, an odd-job man and a live-in nanny!  I know quite a lot of people who keep their houses looking pretty good, but nobody with a household like that!

57. Surely it is:
    Caesar aderat forte
    Brutus adsum jam
    Caesar sic in omnibus
    Brutus sic intram

58. I tried to fit PABBAY (a British isle) into 1 ac which could have given PROCTAL for 1d. Unfortunately, this concerns the posterior rather than the anterior. Pabbay is quite well known amongst rock climbers.

59. Hi Valentine @56 – I [thought I’d] posted a reply here to say that I would comment on General Discussion, which I proceeded to do – but both seem to have disappeared! I’ll try again, over there – I do hope you’re still there [and interested!]. I think that I must have written my reply here and gone straight over to GD without actually posting.

60. Thanks to Shed and Andrew. Just back from teaching a class, so I have nothing to add other than I did know both CRUMB and EGESTA. Very enjoyable..

61. On the easy side but no less enjoyable for it. Last in the mineral that was vaguely familiar but perfectly gettable from the wordplay.

62. Thanks to Shed and Andrew for an enjoyable solve.
    A minor quibble at 14d – “cop for” to me means “be blamed or accept the blame for” which isn’t the same as INCUR.
    Muffin@17 My experience was the opposite to yours. I got 51% in Latin O level but ended up reading classics at university.
    Thanks to Valentine for reminding me of Godley’s exploration of the second declension. I always preferred Greek and others of the same persuasion may like to be search for A E Housman’s humorous “Fragment of a Greek Tragedy”. It begins “O suitably attired in leathern boots, head of a traveller”.

63. Thanks Valentine@34 for picking up on Laccaria’s remark@33 [My only other comment is, why HOST = “landlady”? Is this another example of the Grauniad‘s PC-ness (viz. “actor”)?]

    I really thought this argument had been laid to rest. My sister-in-law runs an Airbnb – she is referred to variously by her short and longer-term guests as their host and their landlady.

    (JinA said crossly, commenting further on a puzzle published on International Women’s Day!]

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