Guardian 27,522 / Boatman

75 comments on “Guardian 27,522 / Boatman”

1. For 24 I had WIT + H CHIL(LE)D. Putting out the French

2. 27: Boatman to be taken literally as “TAR”?

3. I thought this was wonderful, with some unusual cluing such as 26a. Favourites were PROFANITY, RINGS UP, ILL AT EASE and CATEGORY. Eileen – re 27d: it’s TAR followed by T (the sound of tea). Many thanks to B & E.

4. So did I ulyanova and for 27 I had TAR (jolly Jack) for Boatman.

5. (Re 24: I had the same as ulyanova).

6. Well, I think those two are definitely parsed!!

7. Thanks both.

   25a: CHILleD = cold with ‘le’ (‘the’ French) put out.

8. It didn’t take long to type my comment @7, but several others got there first!

9. Many thanks, all – I knew it wouldn’t take long. I have to go out very shortly, so it’s good to have that sorted. 😉

10. Sorry for duplication. I thought this was much more straightforward than many a Boatman puzzle. My favourites were RINGS UP AUNTIES DERISION and SORTS. Many thanks to Boatman and Eileen.

11. A very pleasant challenge from Boatman, although I had to come here for a couple of parsings. Favourites included BRIC and DERISION.

    I enjoyed seeing the triple use of “Boatman”: indicating I (26a), ME (15d) and TAR (27d).

12. Thanks to Boatman and Eileen. Lots of enjoyment here. NO MEAN FEAT was clever.

13. I found this puzzle easier to solve than to parse. For quite a few of the clues, I got the answers and parsed them afterwards.

    I could not parse 26a and like Eileen I could not fully parse 24a and 27d. I also suspected that the definition of 28/11 was A1 not AI.

    New word for me was ORT = scrap.

    My favourites were 7d and 25/8.

    Thanks Eileen and Boatman.

14. Bravely blogged Eileen.I am happy with your exoneration of FIRST CLASS.

    ILLA =THAT in latin?.My worst grade(5)-I only go as far as quod.

    That combined with the wobble in the numeration.

    No foive from me Im afraid.

15. My usual response to a Boatman puzzle I regret to say. I could not parse the clue for ‘Ill at ease’, and, if Eileen’s parsing is correct, then I must agree that it is hardly a fair clue. For my taste, far too many clues which needed to be solved from the solutions rather than the other way round, but, again as usual, I am glad that other people enjoyed it.

16. Did this today with my daughter who is a stickler for not moving on to the next clue until you have fully parsed the last. Enjoyed ovaries, derision and with child, and very satisfying to eventually undo profanity.

    We struggled with ort, thinking it was an anagram of rot (scrap) but that didn’t seem to work as orders would have to be used twice.

    Is the loss of ch from March because it is the beginning (comes in like a..)?
    Thanks Boatman and Eileen.

17. AI for A1 is hardly fair given that the font nicely distinguishes capital I, lower case l, and numeral 1 …

18. Am I the only one to like “ILL AT EASE”? In spite of the unusual splitting of the answer in the middle of “AT”. It took me back to my schooldays and reminded me of the school library’s copy of “Winnie-Ille-Pu”.

    There were still many I couldn’t parse – at 26a the idea that “IS NOT” was “AIN’T” just wouldn’t leave my brain, so I was wondering how “F” could be “Boatman’s infant”…

    Thanks to Boatman and to Eileen for a difficult blog.

19. Using the Roman I for 1 in 28/11 is perhaps a bit naughty but using A1 for artificial insemination would be worse so I am happy with this.

20. @copmus 14. Dies irae, dies illa…

    But unfair clue. Should be something like Latina kid  or girl kid.

21. I thought it was fun and no Trismegistus @18, you are not alone: I really liked ILLA TEASE. I also think that I for 1 is so common, that we should be able to cope with the reverse transformation.

    So thumbs up to Boatman and thanks to Eileen.

22. Not enough Latin to parse ILL AT EASE, though it had to be. No problems with the enumeration. Briefly had LAY TO which fit the definition but nothing else. I liked WITH CHILD for the realisation that Cold was not just C, though the definition was new to me. I think I probably have heard the saying for Mar, but couldn’t see it at the time of solve.

    I liked the repeated definitions for different answers

    Many thanks Boatman and Eileen

23. For a long time I thought I would read a mea culpa for 6 down, 17 across, but I think it just about passes muster in terms of fitting it into the grid. Felt rather ill at ease throughout this tricky puzzle, however…

24. I’m surprised nobody has so far even gently queried 19 across, surely one of those irritating answers that could be written in either way round. Indeed I first wrote in RAM with confidence, as being a  word in its own right rather than MAR, the latter being in this form an abbreviation: one doesn’t say that ‘MAR goes out like a lamb’.  But my judgment may be MARRED by jet lag, having just arrived in Julie@12’s country to see family and friends, Adelaide then Melbourne, linked by the wonderful all-day Overland train journey (with apologies for going briefly off-message).

25. Thanks to Boatman for a pleasant entertainment and to Eileen for quite a few parsings.

    On AI, could it be taken, at a stretch, that “I” is the same as “one” – as in “one can’t get over oneself” – which would give “A one” and hence A1?  I liked the clue anyway and it didn’t give me much pause for thought.  MAR on the other hand is an abbreviation, and hardly one in common(-ish) usage like the acronymic BRIC. Aren’t abbreviations a bit offside? – although in the context of the theme (pregnancy?) a bit is enough.  Without offering any encouragement, I’d take them before the regular debreviations we have to suffer (deejay, kayo, emcee) because “they are in the dictionary”.

    There was an interesting discussion yesterday(?) about the brain refusing to explore the less likely option (in the context of the “X” in “BOXERS”) – so it was for me with ILL AT EASE which the cranium refused even to take a run at thanks to the underlying ILLA.  I could feel myself mentally turning away…

26. With the o,a & s in place, at first all I could think of for 22ac was “oranges” – fits the wordplay but left me wondering what part they played in the process, and whether my education in such matters had been sadly lacking. I knew “orts” from Call My Bluff (30, 40 years ago). I believe the correct definition was given by Patrick Campbell, and was accompanied by a quotation from Shakespeare. I’m sure many readers and contributors here will have fondly remember the program, apologies to those who have no idea what I’m on about.

    Thanks to Boatman and Eileen.

27. I am another wondering which bit of 19A clue indicates “omit the last two letters”

28. “wiil fondly remember”

29. Thank you Boatman and Eileen.

    A fun puzzle, especially the clue for FIRST CLASS – there is no problem with the guardian print for the clue, it is Al (lower case L) which can be interpreted as “artificial insemination” or A1.  I failed to parse ILL AT EASE.

30. PS, that is lowercase L in the fifteensquared print, I in the Guardian print.

31. @chas #22

    Three-letter abbreviations for months (Jan, Feb…) are common. No indication for omission of ‘ch’  in March is needed, I think.

     

32. Rishi @31, I agree, and Mar. is given as an abbreviation for March in the COED.

33. Thank you, Eileen – my place in the schedule seems to have been stalking you for a while now! I always take your comments as a good test of the overall fairness level of a puzzle.

    And to everyone who was on the ball at 9:30 – A very enjoyable parsing storm …

    Cookie@29 – Yes, the font used is key to whether “AI” is completely fair to suggest “A1”. Alphalpha – I quite like your generous two-step justification that I=”one”=1, but I think I’d be in for trouble if I relied on it!

    Tris@18 and Auriga@21 – I’m glad that the Latin reference wasn’t universally lost. Is it fair to expect solvers to know some Latin? Not if it’s key to being able to get anywhere with a clue, but in this case I was confident that everyone would see the reference to TEASE (eventually) and work out the rest from the enumeration. Its position in the grid also tells you that it can be split (4,5) which, however disconcerting at first, is a big hint that part of the wordplay leads to a four-letter word ending in A.

34. 6, 17 seems to be a Marmite clue. I’m firmly in the “loved it” 25, 8. I also really liked 28, 11, and had no problems with AI, though through professional bias I surface read it as artificial intelligence, and never thought of a. insemination, despite the context.
    I had to come here for the parsing of 24a and 16.
    All in all, an enjoyable puzzle. Many thanks to Boatman and Eileen.

35. Thanks to Boatman and Eileen. I found this to be a funny sort of solve. A lot went in quite readily but then quickly ground to a halt for a while. Like others I found some of this easier to solve than parse (another who could not parse ill at ease). I did like first class and multiply and in the end still enjoyable. Thanks again to Boatman and Eileen.

36. Boatman in generous mood in last two puzzles. What’s going on?

37. I’m not a fan of solutions split across lights that don’t match the solution lengths such as 25,8 but accept they are fair. I agree a touch of Latin is OK in the wordplay but I thought it was a rule that the parts of a split clue should be English words, which “Illa” is not as far as I know (and nobody has suggested an English meaning above).

    Not your fault Boatman, but the PDF version is wrong by your criterion. The font has serifs on the AI in 28,11

     

38. Some excellent clues, particularly 12 and 26 which I failed to parse.

39. Howard March @37, I did not check the PDF version, is that the same as the newspaper?  I was referring to the online version of the puzzle @29.

40. I assumed many solvers would be ILLA TEASE with 6, 17, but reading through the comments above, it received less 7d than I thought it might.  I enjoyed it, along with several other “pushing the envelope” clues from Boatman (including CATE as a standalone word, MAR without an abbreviation indicator for March, “No” to clue NO in 15d, and PUP for a young feline).  It’s all in good fun.  Or great fun, if you ask me.  My favorites included FAINT, TART, DERISION, REPRODUCE, PUMP UP, and my CotD, RINGS UP.

    I was amused to see ORT in 16d.  That is another one of those words that is ubiquitous in crosswording, particularly in American crosswords, but which you almost never hear or read in everyday usage.  (But then again, looking back, I recall from my childhood how we sometimes threw a few orts out the back window, into the bugloss, where they might be devoured by the occasional stray bananaquit or puma pup.)

    BRIC was, for me, a TILT.  My only previous familiarity with that term is in its a-brac sense.

    Many thanks to Boatman and Eileen and the other commenters.

41. I did enjoy this puzzle a lot but I am one of those who entered a lot of unparsed solutions. Congrats Eileen on the number you managed and thanks to the other elucidators. Many a chuckle along the way, and even more when I read the blog. One of many favourites was DERISION, and as for IN FANT… I am in the school that thought AI was fair; Mrs Job (PVB) is in the other camp. Many thanks to Boatman and Eileen.

42. Finished. SORTS I guessed but couldn’t parse because I didn’t know “ort”, and BRIC I parsed but couldn’t guess (if you see what I mean) because I didn’t know “BRIC”.

    In 27, “boatman” is “tar” for a sailor.

    Is the theme just a theme, or is it an announcement?

43. To clarify: boatman is TAR, and the T (sounds like “tea”) comes afterwards (“on”).

44. Thanks, Robin @42 and 43 – see comments 2-5. 😉

45. Robin@42 – Just a theme. If you’re looking for an excuse to offer your congratulations, just wait a few months until our teenage daughter finally leaves the nest …

46. @39, PS, the ‘font’ in the Guardian Weekly has no simple l,  I guess The Guardian uses the same ‘font’.

47. Boatman @45: best of luck with that. Both our daughters left the nest. Both back.

48. Did OK and really enjoyed most of it. But I am not a fan of splitting the words. Perhaps because it makes things too challenging for me. Regardless, a good puzzle and blog. Thanks both.

49. This was a curate’s egg for me.  I’m with quenbarrow @24 in thinking that MAR is unfair.  It’s ambiguous, but the ambiguity seems to be resolved by the fact that RAM is a word and MAR only an abbreviation in this sense.  I also thought ILLA as a separate light shouldn’t be allowed, it not being a word.  The “their” in 4 is also annoying, as it’s unnecessary as well as being wrong (or is it me that’s wrong??).  I liked the “lift and separate” tricks in RINGS UP and FAINT however.  Other favourites were OVARIES and REPRODUCE.

    Overall, it was tougher than it should have been for mainly the wrong reasons.

    Thanks anyway, Boatman, and to Eileen for the blog.

50. Thanks to Boatman and Eileen. I’m another who often got the solution, then tried to parse (but needed lots of help from comments above), though I did parse TART and  WITH CHILD. I did know BRIC and ort from US puzzles (as noted by DaveMc @40). “Cate” as a stand-alone term turns up in Taming of the Shrew where Petruchio puns on Kate-Katherine’s name by referring to “household cates.” LOI was OVARIES.

51. Thanks Boatman and Eileen

    I just found this irritating. As with quenbarrow, I was quite convinced that 19a should be RAM rather than MAR (though I considered both). It was a DNF, as I was trying to solve 6d as 3,1,5 (careless), but I didn;t know ILLA anyway.

52. A lot of my quibbles have been thoroughly aired, so I’ll skip them and just go on to “ort.”  I did learn the word a million years ago in ninth-grade reading of Silas Marner, and was later amused at Dave in the computer shop referring to the rebuilt computers they sell as being assembled from “orts and leavings.”  This conversation made me wonder whether Dave had made up the phrase or come across it somewhere, so I googled it.  (I recommend doing that.)  I found a pleasant piece about things to do with the fainting orts in your fridge, which I add here,just for fun.  https://cookingwithmarybartlett.com/2007/10/27/ort-and-leavings-and-remembering-peg/

53. Thanks, Valentine – most entertaining.

54. [Valentine @52 and Eileen @53

    In one of his early books, Bill Bryson claims that everything his mother cooked was made from leftovers – no dish ever appeared on plates from fresh!]

55. Excellent link, Valentine – no fewer than 14 ORTs in one article! My browser insisted that there were 17, but three of them were skulking inside IMPORTANT and PORTLAND.

56. Well, I completed this but,yet again, the parsing went for a Burton on some clues- 6dn and 26ac for example- and I mostly enjoyed it but I can’t say it really floated my boat- see what I did there?
    Thanks Boatman.

57. A lot of moaning about Boatman in a very generous mood. (Again!)

    I was only held up by my initial expectation of the level of difficulty. Once I got half way through the first pass I realised what was going on and it was over in a trice. (Including the parsing which wasn’t difficult either)

    A splendid puzzle IMHO.

    P.S. As far as I am aware 6,17 is fine as both lights contain real words (one Latin but indicated). Where’s the problem?

    P.P.S. I’m dreadng the next Boatman as I’m sure he can’t make the hat trick of friendly puzzles.

    P.P.P.S. Why do so many posters insist on posting which words were new to them? It’s a certainty that this is going to happen to some of us and of no interest to the rest of us when it does. (Is it supposed to make us feel smug?)

     

58. Appalling stuff. It’s just SO clumsy!

    Sorry about not being specific, but the list would be so long as to bore you half to death.

59. Lurkio@57

    Why do so many posters mention how quickly or slowly they solve the puzzle? It’s a certainty that this is some of us are going to solve it more quickly than others and this is of no interest to the rest of us. (Is it supposed to make those of us who solve in a trice feel smug?)

60. 28,11 I agree with Eileen. In my paper it says A capital i with serifs which to me is artificial insemination or intelligence but not A1.
    Thanks to Boatman and Eileen

61. Me @60
    And an ai is a three-toed sloth.

62. I really enjoyed this one – quite often don’t make much headway with Boatman but this went in very easily and was done in half an hour.  19ac I did have to ‘check this’ to determine if it was RAM or MAR, but I think it is quite a common convention to denote months by the first 3 letters – Jan, Feb etc.  I’m with those who loved 6d, 17ac – though it was a bit of a TEASE! I did wonder why the 2-letter word was split but then  memories of A level Latin kicked in and the penny dropped, so I found the split was actually helpful in the end.  Thanks Boatman and Eileen et al for the couple of more obscure parsings I failed to get.

63. lurkio @57, “Why do so many posters insist on posting which words were new to them? It’s a certainty that this is going to happen to some of us and of no interest to the rest of us when it does.”

    If posters did not do this, we would miss interesting insights such as ACD gives @50,

    “Cate” as a stand-alone term turns up in Taming of the Shrew where Petruchio puns on Kate-Katherine’s name by referring to “household cates.”

64. Please can someone explain 4D to me. I got the answer but hated it. How is a young puma a pup and not a cub?

65. Cookie @63

    We will have to agree to disagree on the appeal of these “interesting insights”. “XXXXXXX was a new world for me” is rather dull statement to me especially when it is repeated daily!

    McTavish @59 Although I am confused by your post I completely agree with it.

    You obviously missed my point which wasn’t that I finished the puzzle quickly. I was merely stating that a Boatman puzzle is usually full of seemingly impenetrable clues which need some studying to interpret. Once one realised that this wasn’t the true in this case the clues could be taken at face value and in fact were for the most part fairly straightforward.

    I make no claims to be a rapid/good solver, quite the opposite in fact! I have been attempting the Guardian for over forty years now so eventually I almost always complete the puzzles.

66. Enjoyed this puzzle. Needed Eileen to explain ILLA thank you Eileen. And thank you Boatman.

67. Eric @64. I don’t know – hence my question mark in the blog. I’m surprised that no one else has commented.

68. Thanks Eileen. Yes I spotted your ? and was similarly surprised no one could help. I’m afraid it was my first answer in and I then had that disconcerting feeling that it was the surely the right answer but seemed flawed. Usually the point at which I think the setter isn’t for me unless there’s later a lightbulb ‘dohhh’ moment!

69. Eric @64, the Oxford Dictionaries online give for PUP “1. A young dog. 1.1 A young wolf, seal, rat, or other mammal.”

70. The SOED is a little more retrictive

    3 A young animal of certain other animals, as the wolf, seal, rat, etc.

    as is the OED

    a. A young seal or sea lion.

    b. The young of various other animals, as rats, mice, bats, viviparous sharks, etc.

     

    It’s probably a mistake but the “etc” does offer some leeway in this matter.

     

     

71. lurkio @70, it also applies to young men …

72. Nah. That goes down then as a mistake or at best a sloppy and unfair clue in my book. Glad I stopped when I did and won’t bother battling with that setter again.

73. Eric@72 – I think that’s a bit of an over-reaction! From time to time I mutter to myself something along the lines of “that’s a poor clue”, but I’m not going to let that spoil my enjoyment of the other 30 or so challenges!
    Sundry posters re AI: I think some folks are being a bit precious about this! I accepted long ago that a capital I and the number 1 were interchangeable in clues, without fretting about fonts. And, by the way, AI for me means firstly Amnesty International. I guess that’s the Guardian reader in me asserting itself!

74. mikewglospur @73, you have a good point, and PeterO pointed out for a clue

    “An anagram (‘scuttling’) of I (‘1’; the flip side of yesterday’s AI, which I think acceptable as a Roman numeral – a clock face might carry either) plus … “

75. We only got round to tackling this today and I was relieved (not sure that’s the right word) that even the eminent Eileen was beaten by 24a. We couldn’t parse FAINT or IDIOT either, but should have.

    My issue with 4a was not so much the PUP but the fact that ‘their young’ should surely be plural, ie PUPS.

    Regarding Lurkio’s final comment @57, we do wince at the daily ‘New words for me’ routine but think its fair enough with obscurities such as ORT.

    Very much enjoyed this puzzle and so pleased to have got to the stage where I could work out clues such as 12a and 15d which required some unusual manipulation.

    I’m not one for routinely thanking compiler and blogger as they are always appreciated so it goes without saying. However on this occasion: Thank you Boatman and Eileen.

     

     

     

     

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