Guardian 27,537 / Philistine

34 comments on “Guardian 27,537 / Philistine”

1. Thanks to Philistine and Eileen. I too spotted the familiar Tennyson quote early on and made good progress thereafter. My LOI was HURRICANES, even with all the crossers, for I kept coming up with other versions of Harvey.

2. My favourites were 14a, 2d, 18a, 23a.

   I could not parse 11a – it seemed like it had to be ‘young man’ but I do not know the poem Eileen mentioned.

   Thanks Philistine and Eileen.

3. Thanks Eileen.  I’m much less methodical than you.  Yes, the first two across: but 4D with a c-starter was tempting, and its answer went straight in.  More or less the same for 6D and 8D next.  My favourite was CASUALTY which for no good reason was last one in.  Thanks Philistine.

4. CASUALLY, actually.

5. Thanks Eileen. I’m not as well disciplined as you and quite often am distracted from the methodical order of solving. It disadvantages me sometimes when I find I have failed to notice a simple clue that would have given important crossing letters.

   This time though, like you, 11a et seq made the rest quite straightforward. 21d was my LOI, I simply couldn’t see it for some time, trying vainly instead for an anagram of since + T.

6. Thanks Eileen and Philistine. I found this much less of a struggle than the three daily puzzles that followed, although I couldn’t parse 14a. Chuckled over the ‘raff’ in paraffin. LOI was the easy 21a [Freudian aversion, maybe].

7. 21d I meant.

8. Thank you Philistine and Eileen. I will go further than grantinfreo@6 – for me this was significantly easier than the following 5 daily puzzles. Enough variety to keep it interesting but no obscurities or stretched synonyms.

   Like Eileen, I always go through the clues in strict sequence, across then down. But I mentally stored away a couple of down answers when I got to 11ac. My LOI in was INCEST, mainly because it is the last Down clue.

9. Thanks Philistine and Eileen

   Yes, unusually easy, both for a Prize and for a Philistine. It helped that I knew the quotation (if not the actual poem, though taking up a discussion from last week, it was referred to in Arthur Ransome’s Winter holiday because of its reference to the Pleiad(e)s).

   All good fun, though.

10. I’m an American who started doing cryptics 32 years ago in the Guardian Weekly when I married my British wife. Neither of us is of the caliber of most contributors here, and originally we struggled to finish each one in the week before the next arrived. Eventually we progressed to where we finished most in the space of a few hours, but it always took the two of us, with our different cognitive strengths to come up with all the solutions. However, this crossword I will save forever, as I tackled it alone and for the first (and perhaps only) time solved it completely myself and did so without recourse to Google or other reference sources.

    So thank you Eileen and, particularly, thank your Philistine for producing a puzzle that some of you found rather simple and that thankfully had no truly devious twists. I shall dedicate my victory to the memory of Araucaria, who produced the lion’s share of those early Guardian Weekly puzzles and who, for me at least, is the compiler for the ages.

11. Too hard for me, despite getting the Tennyson extract early on. (I didn’t know the poet, just the extract, so thanks for the knowledge infill Eileen).

    Got stuck over LACERATION (am I still a new solver ? been doing this since the early ’90s – probably seen before and forgotten), and in the SE corner where PARAFFIN, PINAFORE INCEST all eluded.

    Thanks Philistine for a good challenge and Eileen for explaining it all.

12. Cowshill @10 – thank you for your comment, which struck a chord with me. Years ago, my husband would take our copy of the Guardian to work with him to do the crossword in his lunch break and I would try to snaffle the staff room copy to have a go, in the days when we had a lunch break and then we’d compare notes in the evening. On Saturdays, we’d do it together and, like you, pooled our cognitive strengths [for instance, me saying, ‘Is there a bird called …?’ or, ‘Can there really be such a word as …?’, to be told that of course there was  [the latter likely to be some Scottish word only to be found in Chambers, which we didn’t have in those days]. We had just a couple of years of retirement to do the crossword together every day, before he died and then I had to go it alone – I have failed miserably in my attempts to enthuse other members of my family – and so stumbling on this site, ten years ago, was a real Godsend.

    I love Philistine’s puzzles, largely for his appreciation of the English language [which isn’t his first – nor, I believe, his second] and his Puckish delight in playing about with it. [Both of these setters remind me of our beloved  Araucaria.] I’m glad you enjoyed this puzzle  and, if it doesn’t sound too patronising, well done! 😉

    Funny how INCEST was last one in for several people: me too – and not just because it was the last clue.

13. INCEST my LOI too…

14. Thanks Philistine and Eileen.

    Yes, I was rather puzzled by 11a.  It had to be YOUNG MAN because of the connections to other clues, but it seemed to be a bit lacking in crypticity (if there is such a word).

    I really liked 14a and 6d.  In the latter I wondered why Philistine didn’t use “quick” instead of “fast” and so echo Romeo and Juliet’s “O true apothecary, thy drugs are quick.”  Did he intend “fast” to suggest its other meaning of safe etc?  That wouldn’t seem to make so much sense in the surface.

15. I’m afraid I’m a bit of a philistine myself and didn’t know the 11ac quote so that was my last in and unparsed. 4,19 I also couldn’t parse but see it’s one of those reverse clues which I like and thought I was getting better at spotting but clearly not there yet! 9 also too a while, getting bogged down looking for a chess reference (the ‘victim’ being a pawn…) then on getting CASUALLY I wasn’t completely sure on the parsing

    Lots of other favourites, including 1d and 16 plus 10 and 13 for the surfaces (even if 13 is a bit of a chestnut it’s a new one on me!)

    Also wanted to say how much I enjoyed Crucible in the week. As usual I didn’t start until the evening and finished the next day too late to join in here (I won’t reopen the boar/brag debate but might have contributed!)

16. Thank you Philistine and Eileen.

    A most enjoyable Prize crossword.  The only real difficulty I had was with 18a, Bristol Milk and Bristol Cream kept coming to mind, not that I drink sherry.

    The quotation was well known to me, but not the source – I had to google.  Incidentally, I think INCEST fits the poem very well, probably the father’s  reason for refusing the love match between the cousins.

17. I found this quite a quick solve and the quotation went in very quickly indeed. I didn’t know the poem but the quotation certainly was in general use in my youth,often in the form of a parody. I remember the late Jimmy Edwards saying something like “Spring, when a young man’s fancy turns to thoughts of what will get him into the Sunday papers” Meaningless to younger readers, I expect.
    Nice puzzle.
    Thanks Philistine

18. Very enjoyable. I did recognise the quote and I think it did make me break my routine of “read all clues in order to appreciate surfaces, filling in write-ins, then back to the beginning to solve in order if possible, before working on crossed answers”. “Season well” (26) was a lovely dd. I’d be surprised if it too hasn’t been used before.

    @Lord Jim
    I used “crypticity” with reservations here recently, so I think if it wasn’t already a word, we’re making it one.

19. Thanks to Philistine and Eileen. A nice steady solve for me and I agree a bit easier than the five which followed. I recognised the quote but did not know where it was from (thanks Eileen). Last one casually and generally I found it an enjoyable solve. Thanks again to Philistine and Eileen.

20. @me, 2 above

    “I’d be surprised if it too hasn’t been used before.”

    Eg, as most recently blogged here in Indy 8109 by Dac

21. Eileen @ 12 – Not patronising in the least, and thank you for your personal recollections of a similar history. I might add that, for me, being only a mediocre solver adds the bonus that nearly every clue yields a glow of satisfaction when successfully decoded – something that more skilful solvers perhaps experience far less frequently!

22. There must be something in the air, that’s 3 prize crozzies in a row I’ve completed. LOLd at 1D. I don’t like 25A, though—as far as I see it there really isn’t a definition. A PINAFORE is NOT a ship, it’s a wrapping apron.

     

    Thanks anyway to setter and blogger.

23. Eileen, my sisters taught me the parody, “In the spring, a young man’s fancy lightly turns to thoughts of Nancy”.

    I got 26a first, after which the related clues fell quickly. Though there were some tougher ones later and I’d say it was not “too easy” to be enjoyable.

    So, many thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

24. I did NOT know the quote, I’m willing to admit, so the clue for 11 made me pretty cross. I did work out what it had to be, of course, but unlike for everyone else this was not an easy solve for me.

    Yes, I have a masters degree in English* literature, so that was a painful admission. Hey, there’s a lot of literature out there.

    *meaning the language, not the country, of course. My particular area of specialty was modern drama, so there’s that.

    Many thanks to Eileen and Philistine.

25. I was wondering if CROSSBAR was a nod to Tennyson’s “Crossing the Bar”. (not that I knew the poem but found it in my ‘research’ for this puzzle)

    I quite like the 4/19 type of clue, the kind where you deduce the indicator. There’s a word for it which eludes me.

26. @Paddymelon

    I like those clues too, but don’t remember any name for them. I think they’re better if they have some indication, maybe just a QM appended in this case. I’ve seen “cryptically” used to indicate this device, also “possibly”.

27. I’ve not got the puzzle now but reading the blog reminds me it was an enjoyable solve. I knew of the phrase but didn’t think anything about its source – if pushed I’d have guessed Shakespeare (Mrs W would have put me right) but Eileen’s excellent blog did the job.
    That’s a lovely post from Cowshill and response from Eileen – are weekend posters more tolerant of tangents? I wonder if the time lapse between solving and posting helps? Or is it just that many weekday contributors don’t post about the prize? Whatever it’s a nice relaxed atmosphere befitting of a lovely summer’s day.
    Thanks to Philistine for the puzzle and being the catalyst for the exchange and to Eileen and other contributors.

28. WhiteKing @27
    What an interesting observation about ‘weekend posters’! I rarely get time to try the Guardian Prize crosswords (this one included), and that’s the only day of the week that I don’t buy the paper (it’s too heavy and carries a higher price tag). I always read the blogs, though, to see what I missed (that being my only masochistic tendency, as far as I know!), and this blog is indeed an interesting one that I have enjoyed reading throughout.
    Philistine and Puck (the latter Eileen having mentioned indirectly) are two setters that are at the top of my list, and I always look forward to their weekday offerings.
    There is plenty of crossword talk here as well as a bit of off-piste chat, but I like both – and it’s so easy to ignore either (or both!) if I want to.
    Thank you to blogger and commenters.

29. Thanks philistine and Eileen
    11a got me thinking about the quote but the neurones did not fully connect and I did not know the source, But since we are do i g parodies, ” Spring is a time when a young man’s ideology turns to thoughts of applied biology.” At least it rhymes.

30. 7D “On the contrary” isn’t necessary and left me confused. The phrase “to have revealed sexuality in newspaper” I’ve learned from doing crosswords can be X in Y or Y in X, and I always consider both options, so to add ‘on the contrary’ left me considering ‘OR’ / words running backwards,

31. Yes indeed! Philistine is most certainly one of my “top favourite” setters too. This puzzle clearly, and typically, shows his impeccable craftsmanship, smart elegance – and creative thinking! For those who enjoy meaningful surfaces – well, he does that too. And all with a light touch.

    [cowshill@10, Eileen@12 – I was interested to see your mentions of Araucaria. I have been revisiting some of his recently. I’ve just enjoyed his penultimate prize, from October 2013. The comments are, of course, mostly positive, though a certain murmur of “perhaps not his best” was in the background. However, from this distance (hard to believe we’re coming up to five years) all I could think was how much fun it was to solve. Even with the lovely fare we can relish now, it’s good to be reminded what particular joy that great man gifted us.
    (Incidentally, there’s an ‘interesting’ conversation between our own Jolly Swagman and the inestimable Pasquale on the, somewhat tedious usually, matter of Ximenes versus the Guardian!)]

32. Thanks for picking up on my observation Alan B@28. Let’s see if we can encourage the relaxed weekend approach to carry on through the week!

33. @William F P

    Interesting side note on the cross words passing between JS and the Don. Can anyone identify the first case of such an exchange between the pair? Hairy Biker?

34. Tony – Actually I thought Jolly was very polite (I think he always is) but you must be right in thinking it goes back much further. Ancient history no doubt. In any case an interesting colloquy, which I only mentioned in passing. My main point is how much Araucaria is missed.
    (For what it’s worth, I agree with Jolly; that’s precisely why I so enjoy some some setters, especially the beloved Rev, from the Guardian stable.)]

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