Guardian 27,715 / Boatman

67 comments on “Guardian 27,715 / Boatman”

1. Thanks Eileen. I couldn’t parse NEGLIGEE or solve the impossible DOUBLE DOWN

2. Being a mathie, I loved the “prime number” theme, but agree that 24 is faulty. Prime numbers can be even, since two is the only prime even number. I agree with your parsing of 2, and regarding 3, TRIP can mean SPRING, as both mean “to move with short, light steps”.

   Thanks Boatman and Eileen!

3. Ah, and I parsed 25 as a reversal of EU + GENER(ALLY) (i.e. “friend”less).

4. Thanks, Steve B – missed that.

5. Found this too tough, not helped by the fact I hate number puzzles, so had a downer on this one from the start. Some really artful clues though, amongst the deathdealers.
   Can someone help me by examples of using ‘w’ as an abbreviation for ‘with’? I can conjure up ‘w/’ (eg. cafe menu: w/chips), but isn’t that a bit of a stretch, or is it just me? Any simple uses of ‘w.’?
   Thanks.

6. John: w.r.t = with respect to. w/o with or without

7. Thanks Boatman and Eileen

   As ever with Boatman there were some that I had the answer, but no idea of the parsing; I gave up and revealed NINJA, and still don’t understand it.

   I was going to comment on the “double-duty” L in ELEVEN, but you got there first, Eileen.

   However I did like BRIEF, MENU and the “nameless type of paint”!

8. Very clever – all the prime numbers up to and including eleven are in there one way or another – but I was very reliant on Eileen’s brilliant blog for the parsing. Didn’t know ethnocide or lit up = drunk, and had to use the ??? cheat-tool for several of the more difficult clues, so perhaps it counts as a dnf. Much enjoyed the witty ampersand in 26a when the penny finally dropped! Many thanks to Eileen & Boatman.

9. Me again sorry

   muffin: I think the & is short for ‘and’, therefore ‘n’; and that goes before inja which sort of sounds like injure. Some wont be happy with that of course but OK by me.

    

10. Thanks pex. So only part of a compound abbreviation then (if that’s the correct term). A bit devious for me!

11. muffin @7: I think the point is that the ampersand is a short form of “and”, and so is “ ‘n’ “. So “& maim” = “ ‘n’ injure”, which sounds like “ninja”, as Eileen says.

12. Thanks both for the NINJA explanation. As you say, some won’t like it (I include me in that category).

13. Sorry, pex, we crossed!

14. Enjoyed this, especially as the prime theme gave a bit less trouble than a non-mathematician might have expected. I nearly always have trouble with 3-letter clues, and 18A was no exception. The answer had to be ELM, but I couldnt parse it and still wonder why  L signifies nameless? Perhaps my DIY days are too far in the past.

15. I gave up on this one. Not an unusual experience for me with Boatman’s puzzles, I regret to say. I think that Boatman’s style falls into the Marmite category, so I am sure that others will have really enjoyed the puzzle.

16. Harhop @14 – it’s EnameL [type of paint] minus ‘name’ – sorry if it wasn’t clear

17. Harhop @ 14: L doesn’t signify nameless. The letters EL are simply what is left when you take the ‘name’ out of the word ‘enamel’.

18. Crossed again – sorry, Eileen!

19. Way too difficult for me. For some reason, I could only solve the right hand side, and ran out of time (and patience) to persevere with the left hand side. Not really my cup of tea!

    Thanks b+s.

20. I’m afraid I didn’t find the theme of Prime(s) at all diverting enough. A DNF for me today.

21. Thanks Boatman; fun puzzle. I’m surprised the PM didn’t make an appearance.

    Thanks Eileen for a good blog; I thought ‘negligent’ had something to do with the parsing of NEGLIGEE, doh. I was pleased that I didn’t trip up on the old ether chestnut though. Thanks also to Steve B. @3; I wondered what the ‘friendless’ was doing there.

    DOUBLE DOWN is in the Oxford dictionaries as a US expression, although I think it is commonly used here as well.

22. A fun variety of clues here but not without the problems one usually encounters when a theme is so deeply embedded. I thought the mixture of ways prime was used was astounding, and loved the absolute straightforward (“factor of all primes”) mixed with the darn cunning. And, of course, boatman had to slip in a couple of his trademark self-references. I had the same complaints as Eileen about Eleven, and was unable to parse Wheel-less owing to putting “elles” as “them” and wondering why “whes” meant slopes. DNF for me as I had trap in place of trip – to spring something can be to trap it and a fall is a type of trap so I think this is a bit of a fail as a double definition to my mind, as the other solution was not (to my mind) obviously closer to the two words given.

    Regarding ninja, I had to have the crossers and then it clicked. I was OK with it as the ampersand was a signal that something weird was going on, but I  don’t think I’d have come close without the crossers in place. Nice to see ounces clued without reference to cats for once. Ethnocide was a new word for me, as was the spelling of renegue, but both perfectly clued which is just as it should be.

    Thanks Boatman McBoatmanface and Eileen for the blog and parsing.

23. A bout of insomnia, so for once (lately) I’m done in time to comment while folks are still reading.

    I liked the puzzle, which was of course on the tougher side, and quite clever.

    The NINJA homophone is cute, but I doubt there’s a dialect in the world where it’s natural. I don’t think even non-R people truncate “injure” all the way down to “inja,” and the ‘n is worth at least a half an extra syllable that NINJA doesn’t have.

    Surprised DOUBLE DOWN isn’t a familiar phrase to some. It comes from betting (specifically blackjack I think), but I’m not a betting man and I hear it commonly as used in the clue. The clue was amusingly topical, though it’s sad it needed “falls” (redundant in a down clue) to make the surface work.

24. What Eileen said.

25. I liked discovering the “primes” THEME (17a) including the prime numbers hidden in this puzzle. My favourite words were 9a ETHER (for once, like Robi@21, I did remember that “number” can also be an anaesthetic!), 15a ELEMENT, 7d FINITE, 21d FUGITIVE and 26d NOWT. Like thezed@22, that spelling of 25a RENEGUE with a “U” was unfamiliar: thankfully the crossers and wordplay made it the only possibility.
    After yesterday’s discussion of anagrinds on the blog, I was interested to see “creeping” performing that duty in 10a ETHNOCIDE. [At one stage I started making a list of all the anagrinds used in the Guardian puzzles, but then I got behind, so it is another of my unfinished projects! I was interested to see yesterday that Sil van den Hoek has access to a resource, Chambers Crossword Dictionary, where much of the work has been done. I might investigate it, though I am sure new anagram indicators are being added daily.]
    Thanks to Boatman for today’s challenge, to Eileen for the blog (I needed lots of help with the reasons why), and to other posters for some supplementary explanations.

26. Ronald @20 Ditto.

27. Thank you Boatman and Eileen.

    I loved the prime theme, but agree with Eileen about the clue for ELEVEN.  “Trip the light fantastic” came to my mind at 3d to explain ‘Spring’.

28. Brava, Eileen – you do seem to have become my fated blogger of late. Many thanks for teasing out and explaining everything – I know this puzzle was a little trickier than usual, but there were a couple of constructions that I just couldn’t resist, once I’d seen them.

    MrP @23 – I sympathise about the NINJA homophone. I think that in normal speech I pronounce “injure” with just a touch of an R, but I hear it spoken by others (living within commuting distance of London) almost exactly as “inja”, so I’d certainly say that it’s a possible homophone, though I do accept that parsing a homophone as an R-dropper must feel foreign to a rhotic speaker. I suppose, in an ideal world, this is the sort of thing that could be indicated in the way that we might say “Cockney” to indicate a dropped H. “They could kill & maim in the South, say” … ? Not sure that I can see that catching on, but it would be fairer and less London-centric. The question that matters is whether a rhotic speaker can parse the clue confidently and enjoyably, knowing that it’s the sort of thing that I might do.

29. … and yes, Cookie, there is more than a suggestion of double-duty in 24 Dn, which was a little unhelpful. If I’d thought about this more clearly at the time, I might have written something like “can’t generally” or “large or larger”, which would have avoided the problem.

30. Boatman @29 or even add “bar one” to the end of 24dn, adding further confusion because the one in question is actually two (as it were)…

31. Oh, that’s funny!

32. Two degrees in mathematics, and I still struggled! Actually, this was almost a case of too much knowledge being a dangerous thing – in my (former) world, e is never called irrational (it and pi are transcendental), although it’s not incorrect to do so.

    As usual, Boatman draws out more variations than you would have thought possible. Thanks.

33. Thanks both. My accent is Estuary English (i.e. Greater London plus a few miles) and for me, injure sounds like INJA. This is partly due to INJA being said as “injer” rather than “injah”. And, of course, the r in injure is not rolled

34. Thanks to Boatman and Eileen. I found this a puzzle of two halves. The RH went in quite readily, but the LH, particularly the SW was more of a struggle. I eventually got the NW, but the SW eventually defeated me, and a DNF here. I failed on wheelless, ounces and ninja. Hey ho still an enjoyable challenge and I quite liked fugitive, finite and lit up. Thanks again to Boatman and Eileen.

35. For ELEVEN we justified it in the end as ‘irrational’=e (we mathematicians do use ‘irrationals’ as a noun) and ‘number’=L (fifty), but I loved the clue even if it is potentially loose.

    And we had DROP for 3d, as in ‘I hate to spring/drop this on you…’

    A real treat having some real maths in a puzzle so thanks to Boatman!

36. With a Boatman puzzle I usually think it looks just about impossible at first glance, but then I gradually work my way in and get there or thereabouts in the end, and this was no exception.

    NINJA was outrageous!  But I thought it was great when the penny finally dropped.  I’m originally from south east England and like Shirl @33 I pronounce “injure” exactly like INJA.

    May I make my usual comment that it was nice to see the good old dual use of “Boatman”, once to mean I/me and once to mean an actual boatman.

    Many thanks Boatman and Eileen.

37. Thank you, Lord J – I am flattered to have been responsible for starting a “good old” something …

38. Thanks both,

    A good work out for the little grey cells and more amusing than most because of the multiple meanings of prime. I confess I used the check button on a couple. Extra thanks to Boatman for visiting and sharing his thoughts.

39. Quite doable in the east, but very hard in the west.  I also had DROP for 3 but couldn’t justify the “spring” half.  I love Spica@35’s attempt and, as a result of that, I think it’s a better answer.

    Shame about ELEVEN – certainly struck me as an error at the time.  Couldn’t get NEGLIGEE (is a “wrap” really the same thing?) or NINJA (quite like it now).

    ELM, ETHNOCIDE, FINITE and DOUBLE DOWN were very good.  The latter seemed quite Pauline.

    Not my favorite Boatman, but still good entertainment.  Thanks, B and E.  Thanks also, Eileen, for the IO link yesterday – most interesting.

40. Thanks to Boatman and Eileen. Tough going for me, as expected with this setter. I had the same problems as already cited – e.g., with NINJA, TRIP, the spelling of RENEGUE, but DOUBLE DOWN  was familiar to me.

41. DOUBLE DOWN is not in any dictionary I own. However it ought not to be a difficult thing to guess. But to guess it from the disaster area that is the wordplay in this case well that’s another matter.
    Usual mix of neat, not so neat and plain awful

42. Re 26 – sorry but two is NOT a prime number according to Chambers definition

43. rodders @42 which Chambers is that? My (ancient) one has “a number other than one which is divisible only by itself or unity” which is the standard definition I and the many mathematicians I know use. That or an equivalent – one is always excluded, but I’ve never seen two excluded. Is there an error in a newer edition? The online source has “a whole number that can only be divided by itself and 1, eg 3, 5, 7, 11, etc.” so also does not exclude two.

    Re “double down” – I get most of my US news from US sources so have heard the expression many times, but had not thought it was rare in the UK. Interesting what you learn…

44. Great crossword and blog.  FWIW, the US media has been full of Trump ‘doubling down’ on his wall to end all walls … e.g. https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-doubles-down-on-shutdown-threat-i-win-every-single-time.

45. By the way, for anyone concerned about the prevalence of DOUBLE DOWN in common usage in the UK, the Guardian’s letters page had a contribution bemoaning its appearance in the paper’s editorials. Like it or not, I confidently predict that it will be in the next editions of the UK dictionaries.

46. @Boatman

    I don’t have an issue with “doubling down” making its way into the language, but I strongly believe the the expression “reach out” should be restricted by law in Britain to Four Tops tribute bands

47. My calendar tells me the moon is waxing
    and so my mood is waning. This was just
    what I needed to cheer me up.
    Vintage stuff !
    Brava Eileen and bravissimo Boatman –
    I enjoyed it more than enough to forgive you
    the TWO.

48. I’m sorry. I’ve searched the net and I just dont get why the “familiar crossword clue” *number* gets the solution “Ether”?

49. Welcome PiesMcQ,
    Because ether is an anaesthetic i.e. something that makes you ‘numb’. Groansome, eh?

50. oh….. yes you may well have heard the groan! but thanks for putting me out of my misery.

51. PiesMcQ @48/50 – welcome if you’re new!

    Apologies if you haven’t seen this gem before  – but you’re likely to see it again, so it’s well worth filing away for future use. 😉

52. Thanks to Boatman and Eileen (I don’t know how you do it).

    It’s been a long day – up with the muffins for an unsatisfactory golf outing, the usual stint on cook duty (a resounding success by the way) and settle down to find a crossword littered with primes and numbers and both (spooky or what since I congratulated Andrew on hitting a prime number of blogs in conjunction with Brummie’s 200th just the other day) and just couldn’t make much progress, mainly because of DOUBLE DOWN – which at least allows me to offer that, although rarely behind the times I am (cf@45) behind the Guardian: but what does it mean? I want to introduce it into a sentence! (Nod to mrpenney@23 but I’m none the wiser – reminds me of a long ago performance review where my “diffidence” was remarked upon; of course I didn’t have the chutzpah to say that I didn’t know what was meant and had to scurry for a postmortem dictionary.)

    Just not at the Goldilocks races today.  I did enjoy RENEGUE (how else would you spell it?) and LIT UP (the clue for which serves as an appropriate  (more spooky) valediction).

53. Hi Alphalpha @52 – I don’t know either – it seems, since Boatman has not contradicted, that all my dodgy parsings were correct!

    I knew that RENEGUE could be spelt differently, so didn’t bother looking it up.

    My entire sympathies re DOUBLE DOWN  [except that I shall decidedly not be looking to introduce it into a sentence].

54. Alphalpha@52 – if you actually want it’s definition, in blackjack if you double your wager with only one more card to be dealt – then you are doubling down. (Though I’ve seen this where you split the wager between two dealt cards). Since it is a significant increase in your wager – it increases your risk and potential reward. A headline might read “Trump doubled down today on his promise to build a wall by threatening to declare a national emergency”. Though, clearly this would only be a headline in a verbose and unreadable newspaper.  It works particularly with Trump as a) he is an American and b) he owned several casinos.

    Thank you to Eileen (you are amazing) and Boatman! (a special thank you to Boatman for commenting here in the blog – we are honoured). I enjoyed this puzzle a lot.

55. OMG – its … not it’s … such a Canadian mistake.  I’m not illiterate despite my typing as if I were.

56. Chambers revised thirteenth edition 2016 ( Christmas present) continues to define a prime number mathematically correctly as a number divisible by no whole numbers except unity and itself (sorry for the near double negative).

57. For what it’s worth, can anyone explain to me why Boatman says ‘ … stock index falls one point’ in 6d?

58. I happened to see Sil’s question so let me hazard a guess. Boatman needed to link the wordplay for DOW with that for N. And once he has “stock index” and “point”, there are only two palatable options for the surface since indices rise or fall in points. I assume that he chose falls since it is a down clue, hoping that it would disappear into the background as a link word.

59. As the number two heads the list of primes we should remember it is the prime prime!?

60. For Wheal Dreath @8 and others who’d not come across the phrase LIT UP, meaning drunk, I recommend looking up the notorious BBC radio commentary on the Coronation Review of 1937. ‘The fleet’s lit up’ said the commentator, Lt-Commander Woodrooffe; unfortunately, it soon become clear that he himself was only too lit up, and he had to be faded out.

61. I enjoyed this too. Thanks Boatman and Eileen for my missing answers: ninja and negligee. However I still don’t understand why ‘light’ is part of crossword. Any enlightenment please?

62. Phyllida @61 – the white squares in the grid a known as lights, presumably the opposite of the other squares which are dark.  The term can also be used to mean a group of white squares making up an entry in the grid.

63. Very very nice; beautifully constructed (excepting ‘creeping’ – and I’m the last to take exception to liberal anagrinds – I think you may have been pushing it a bit there!). I can’t agree with the blogger’s view of 26 and 30 – really enjoyed NINJA and can’t see why either clue should be described as “weak”. (Given that “&” and “‘n'” both mean “and, shortened” I had no real problem with the construction. Indeed, had it been clued thus by Araucaria, perhaps it would have been described as something far from weak?!)

    The smooth use of the theme so extensively was appreciated (and nice touches, which Eileen also noticed, like repeated use of “prime suspect”) hint at the care put into this lovely puzzle. I’m glad I avoided looking at this yesterday as it deserved to be savoured with my Saturday morning coffee. Most enjoyable crossword, for me, in a little while (is it just me, or haven’t we had a run of ‘easies’ recently; even this not one of B’s most challenging).

    Many thanks, both and all.

64. Incidentally, I had no problem with ELEVEN. It is fair (if not strictly accurate) to say that no primes are divisible by 3 or 5 or 7 and so on, but that doesn’t mean that 3 or 5 or 7 are not themselves prime. 3, 5, 7 and so on are trivial exceptions to the rule. Just as 2 is the trivial exception to the ‘rule’ that no primes are even. (I’m using ‘trivial’ in its mathematical sense rather than derogatively!). I wonder who of those complaining were primarily showing off? 🙂
    On solving this clue, I was perhaps too busy smiling at Boatman’s use of “primes can’t be this” for “even” in the charade, to be looking to quibble?

    Great clue, I thought.

    I do think that Boatman received some uncharacteristic, and unfair, pickiness in the blog. Personally, I like the way Boatman develops and I’d hate his natural inclination for creativity and experimentation to be thwarted.

    (and I’m also an Oxford mathematician…..)

65. It’s so odd that I’m a newbie answer yet easily solved DOUBLE DOWN that was noted as difficult for others. Failed to solve much else although had fun and learned a lot trying! Really struggling to understand ETHER. Have looked in dictionary and don’t see it under NUMBER?

66. Rachel M @65

    Re ETHER, see comments #48 & #49 above.

67. Oh forgive me- missed in the above thread. where somebody had already helpfully explained just this. Many thanks!

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