Guardian 27,768 / Philistine

51 comments on “Guardian 27,768 / Philistine”

1. Yes, this was fun. OUT FOR THE COUNT was my favourite.

2. Thanks Philistine and Eileen

   Pretty easy for a Philistine, though I didn’t parse SAVED BY THE BELL or LOST AT SEA.

   Favourite was EWE-LAMB. I also liked the construction for ABSORBENT, but “bent” isn’t a great anagram indicator, and the surface doesn’t make any sense.

3. I suppose OUT FOR THE COUNT fits the theme as well. I didn’t see it, of course!

4. Sorry, Eileen – I missed that you had included 1ac

5. I enjoyed this puzzle although there were a few that I solved and could not parse. I had a feeling that OX and G’DAY were needed for Boxing Day, but failed to get the BIN bit; I also only half parsed 27a – I got the S V A BED bit but failed to see the anagram of THEY’LL BE. I had no idea how to parse LOST AT SEA.

   New for me was FLUKE = a flatworm.

   My favourite was OVERPOWER.

   Thanks Eileen and Philistine

6. Philly lite today I thought, with easy hiddens and familiars, ow for it hurts, phoney minus y, evens to get usage, etc. Got a smile for where flies are, bent boars, equin+ox and lost at sea. Fun but over all too quick. Thanks and well done spotting the boxing theme Eileen, and thanks Philistine.

7. What’s this about a wet and windy day?  It’s not raining here, but we’ve still got a fair amount of snow on the ground.  Get really fed up of it, months on end …

   I liked this puzzle, too.  The long anagram at 27 ac was so obvious I didn’t bother to work it out!  And EQUINOS also obvious once BOXING DAY was in.

   Thoroughly agree, a puzzle doesn’t have to be difficult to be enjoyable.  Some lovely clues here.  Loved EXULTANT, ABSORBENT, OFFICE BEARER.

   I couldn’t explain LOST AT SEA but assumed it was a literary reference.  Three in a boat?

   ONly one teeny-weeny quibble – perhaps the ‘a’ in 4 ac could better have been a definite article?  Of course it wouldn’t have sounded as nice ….

   Anyway, many thanks to Philistine and to Eileen.

8. G’Day to all! I agree with Median’s affirmation for 1a OUT FOR THE COUNT. The related boxing phrases were fun. I also liked 1d OFFICE BEARER. I did have a question mark on the anagrind “derelict” in the clue for 16d NOTRE DAME, but on reflection, I guess it works.
   Silly me, I had WEE LAMB for 18d for a while, which held up my solving of 17a ABSORBENT.
   Thanks for a great puzzle, Philistine, and a terrific blog, as usual, Eileen.

9. [Crossed against several other posts. Thanks to all contributors before and after me.]

10. … oh yes and liked the ox in the bin plus g’day (during the Americas Cup in Freo, summer ’86-7, there were some tee shirts with G’day from WA, and others with Hair Lair from Claremont [a posh suburb]).

11. Well done Eileen on being so prompt with some tricky
    parsings. Thanks too for the steer on the Dr.J quote.
    I should have guessed it was him. I knew it only in the
    form “Porridge, a dish made from a cereal fit only
    for ….” I once had a lodger who asked why there were
    no saucepans in the kitchen. I told him he’d find them
    in the garden full of well-set ‘concrete’; he wasn’t terribly
    prompt at washing-up.
    Great fun, thank you Philistine (loved LOST AT SEA).

12. Well that was over in the first round! I don’t think I’ve ever written in so much of a crossword at first pass, though a bit of time spent parsing afterwards was needed. I’m still uncertain about “lost at sea” and wondered if it was anything to with going down for the third time, but Eileen’s version makes (a little) more sense. I had “bin” and “ox” (unfortunate overlap with the ox in the down clue) but not why one was in t’other. Thanks for explaining that.

    Two other thematic references – there is a boxer crab so maybe 4 dn makes it in, and who could forget Mohammed Aioli? I’ll get my coat…

13. Usual wit (13,19) and cleverness (17) but otherwise the easiest Philistine ever, even for an old duffer like me.

14. I think the blog sums up my experience neatly – great sport but perhaps the fastest I’ve finished one. I needed the blog for two of the parsings. The aristocratic was in early and made me grumpy – OUT FOR THE COUNT means unconcious not sleeping; it’s a boxing term, I thought smugly. And then the penny dropped, so loud it rattled the teacups.

    On the theme – OVERPOWER could arguably (but weakly) be in there, as could THE CRAB, as there is a species called the Boxer Crab.

    Overall, a lovely puzzle and a good blog. Many thanks to Philistine and to Eileen.

15. To thezed @12 – sorry, we crossed wrt the crab…

16. Braving the rain and wind, I have just been outside to retrieve yesterday’s Metro from my recycling bin.  They also had a ewe lamb on the menu, clued as follows: ‘she is bound to be fleeced eventually’.

17. Apparently, thrice can also mean very or greatly, so I wonder whether this is supposed to be LOST, AT SEA giving lots = greatly?

    Entertaining solve, I saw the bin in 15 but failed to realise that discarded could mean ‘in the bin.’

    I ticked OFFICE-BEARER, BELOW THE BELT and EXEMPT.

    Thanks Philistine and Eileen.

18. A good bantam weight contest. No KOs but some nice points.

19. Pleasant puzzle if not too challenging.  I enjoyed 17a ABSORBENT.  But I’d differ with you, Eileen, on word order — I’d say BOARS is ABSOR ‘BENT’.

    Is there any sort of definition for AIOLI besides “this”?

    An ox may be a lower (15a BOXING DAY) but not a bull (5d EQUINOX).  When you castrate a bull he becomes an ox, but he can’t be both at once.

    Is OFFICE BEARER a common expression?  I’m used to OFFICE HOLDER.

    Thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

20. Very enjoyable, gentle solve today…

21. Keyser @15 I should apologise to you for gazumping you!

22. Neat point, Valentine.

23. Valentine @19 – thanks for pointing out my slip at 17ac, amended now.

    I wondered about underlining the whole clue in 26ac: it is the definition but not quite &lit, as I indicated.

    I’m personally more used to OFFICE BEARER and didn’t think of looking it up but a very quick google gives ample authority.

    grantinfreo @22 – thanks for that.  😉

    I have to go out now so any more queries will have to wait until late afternoon.

24. Thanks to Philistine and Eileen. I am another who really enjoyed solving this puzzle (especially after yesterday’s failure), and another who found it at the easier end of Philistine’s range. I also liked office bearer, Boxing Day and absorbent. Not much more to say apart from thanks again to Philistine and Eileen.

25. All pretty straightforward except that I failed to parse LOST AT SEA – spent a while trying to insert AT into THRICE but none of them worked! All quite enjoyable.

    Thanks to Philistine and Eileen

26. Thanks to Philistine and Eileen. Very enjoyable. Like others I needed help parsing LOST AT SEA, but, with the exception of OFFICE BEARER, I did not have my usual trouble with the terms in the longer answers, maybe because of the boxing theme.

27. Quite easy but a fun solve. FOI ESCAPADE, LOI FLUKE, COD 16d.

28. Am I misreading 7d? If you engage “one” with “errand” to get NON-READER, a noun, then how is this defined by “to attend literacy class”? You could turn it around and say that the non-reader is the “one” who … but then some parts of the clue are doing double-duty, some aren’t. Thanks.

29. Dr Whatson @28 — If you were to classify levels of literacy, non-reader might appear at the bottom of the list.

30. … and attend (in the sense of come to) is what points to that solution.

31. John E: – maybe I wasn’t clear – or literate! I’m questioning the internal mechanics of the cryptic clue, not the real-life semantics.
    ‘

32. … “to attend” is a verb, “reader” is a noun.

33. Thanks both,
    I’m in India a the moment and so ought to be able to get a head start with the crossword, but the discipline of touring holidays means there is not t a moment to oneself to get on with it. When I finally got some free time it all fell into place. ‘Lost at sea’ means not so much ‘adrift’ as ‘sunk’ to me.

34. Gentle for Philistine, but no less enjoyable and very crafty in places.  Even remembered to look for (and saw) the theme so there’s a first.  Quite a few where the answer was obvious but the parsing was challenging – never managed to decipher 14 so thanks Eileen for the explanation.  Thought 17, once the penny dropped, was superb.  Thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

35. Surprisingly easy for this setter, although I didn’t bother with the parsing of some of the longer answers- SQVED BY THE BELL,OUT FOR TBE COUNT.I did see BOXING DAY but I didn’t get the theme (shock).
    Thanks Philistine.

36. Dr Whatson — if you solve the anagram you attend (= come to) the noun ‘non-reader’, which can be used to classify a level of literacy (level zero) and is thus an example of a literacy class for the purposes of the wordplay in this crossword.

37. Hi John E. It appears we’re talking at cross-purposes. Take a look at http://www.alberichcrosswords.com/pages/id51.html for a discussion of Ximenean (“strict”) versus non-Ximenean (“sloppy”) approaches to clue-writing.

38. Hi Dr Whatson. I’m with you all the way but it seems the grauniad often strays from ximinean principles.

39. [Another Grauniadism. Today’s Sudoku “went wrong”, so I printed off another from the website. It didn’t seem very familiar when we started, so I checked the number – it was tomorrow’s!]

40. Hmmm, technically interesting, Dr Whatson and John E. If it was “Should one engageD with errand attend literacy class?”, then the def could be “Should one attend literacy class?”, with “one” doubling.

41. I’m a non-strict Ximenean myself (if that’s even possible). I think there should be strict conventions, but you can flout them if you have a powerful reason to, e.g. a truly wonderful surface, a brilliant &lit., conforming to a theme, a useful innovation.

    This one you could rewrite to “Should one engaged with errand be one who attends literacy class?” which mostly fixes the grammar problem but makes a crummy surface.

42. Could the surface of 7d have been better worded? Yes. Did the existing wording make the clue difficult to solve? No (judging by the comments here and on the Guardian website).   This is just a simple entry-level crossword when all is said and done.

43. Thanks to Eileen and Philistine

    A pleasant crossword that I’m sure the setter knew was at the easier end of his range.

    I parsed 14d exactly as per the blog but without much thought. In the light of ROBI@17’s take, and I’m fairly sure he’s nailed it, it is a much better clue than I gave it credit for.

    7d I took as a valiant but failed attempt at an &lit. Not difficult to solve, but whether or not the construction bothers depends on whether you simply want to arrive at the answer, or would rather some precision and elegance along the way.

    It might simply have been clued as “One engaged in errand to deliver literacy class”.

44. An excellent crossword. I particularly enjoyed solving the clues to all the long answers and those to BOXING DAY, AOILI and EQUINOX.
    Thanks to Philistine and Eileen.

45. Dansar @ 43.  Your alternative wording for 7d satisfies the requirements of clear clueing but gives a surface reading that can only mean that the ‘one’ is the deliverer (as in the class tutor).  What I like about the original clue is its attempt to imply that the ‘one’ in need of tuition is the non-reader.  As Dr Whatson has said, this attempt fails when you start analysing the grammar, but the lingering ambiguity makes this a heroic failure in my book.

46. I can’t work out what part of 2 down means that truce is hidden within a reversal of “the curtain”. Is it “over” ?

47. Nor can I Neil. Surprised it has hitherto gone unmentioned. There seems to me to be nothing indicating the embedding.

48. Now that I look, I think there are two reversal indicators, “rising” and “over.”  Maybe “over” is the one doing the job.

49. I see what you’re saying Valentine but surely the only thing that is over TRUCE is NIAHT in that case?

    Not much chance of resolving it at this late stage I suppose.

    I also tried to make the IN of CURTAIN the indicator but then the OVER becomes redundant.

50. I agree with John E who describes this as “simple entry-level”.
    Of course, good surfaces are a nice bonus. But if these account for all, or nearly all, of a crossword’s pleasure then perhaps good literature may be a better source.
    This (being by a favourite setter) was saved for the weekend. The coffee wasn’t even cool enough to sip before this “puzzle” was finished.
    I also agree (indeed I have said so here) that “a puzzle doesn’t need to be difficult to be enjoyable”. But it needs to be a puzzle!
    For me, this level of simplicity is a bad joke!
    Nevertheless I did enjoy LOST AT SEA because I parsed it, but with certainty, as Eileen did.

    I understand that virtually no-one here would agree with me. Forgive me, Eileen, but where you have described it as “satisfying”, I couldn’t think of a less fitting adjective.
    It may be that others, who haven’t chosen to post, are simply being polite……?

51. ……I did not make the above comment to upset or gainsay any here (as this is well after the event, few will see this). My primary hope is that a crossword editor who has some say in what is published on a Thursday might happen by.
    I repeat:
    To me, this level of simplicity on a Thursday is a bad joke.

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