Guardian 27,874 / Qaos

75 comments on “Guardian 27,874 / Qaos”

1. the theme a bit of an albatross around your neck eh Eileen?

   eyethengyew

2. baerchen@1 ” ‘course you dont get wafers with it” Oh well!

3. @copmus

   might have been one for The Green Manehilishi to blog

4. Thanks Qaos and Eileen

   Any advance on 12 themers? I’m probably not familiar enough with their output to spot more.

5. baerchen @ 3: that’s even worse than your nudge @ 1!

6. And I’m still in the dark!

7. Thanks, Eileen. To put you out of your misery: Fleetwood Mack.

8. Also, a big thank you for the pointer recently to The Angina Monologues.

9. I think it’s 20A, 21D,15A but I’m not very familiar with their output

10. Many thanks, NeilW, [and jim] for your kindness. At least I know that I could have stared at the blog all day and never got there, so I don’t feel so bad.

11. baerchen @1 – too subtle, I’m afraid.  😉

12. NeilW @7: better known as Fleetwood Mac.  Presumably Qaos couldn’t manage a MAC rather than a MACK.

    Eileen, I agree with you about 7a.  Brilliant.

13. Bless you Eileen…nobody’s ever said that to me

14. Despite having no idea about the theme I enjoyed this. Needed help with cat for heave…never heard of that one and not a very nice one to remember!
    Loved NUMERICAL, TEXTBOOK and ELECTRONS.
    Thanks Qaos and Eileen..as you say, I could have looked all day and not found the theme so that always makes me feel slightly better about missing it.

15. I managed to get the theme quite early on, but don’t know much about Fleetwood Mac’s earlier work. They must have been around for 50 years now. I managed to find TUSK, RUMOURS, (mr) WONDERFUL, KILN HOUSE, MIRAGE, PENGUIN & TANGO(s) in the NIGHT. Has anyone spotted any others?

    Thanks to Qaos & Eileen.

16. well, I too looked in vain for the theme, came here and read the first 5-6 comments and was no wiser! However, before reading further, went back to the crossword and then rumours and fleetwood mac(k) hit me- I’m afraid I then had to google the band to identify further theme words, sigh.
    I looked up cat as could not see why =heave, and it is also a nautical term apparently for a hoist, and exists also in verb form meaning hoist. I didn’t know re cat=vomit, so good to know that also.
    Thanks Eileen for the blog- I also agree re 7a, which after reading your comments (i didn’t know the strike was 1984) is even more clever than I first realised.
    Thanks also to Qaos for the fun.

17. For once, knowing it was Qaos and there had to be a theme I got there just in time to help with one clue. Well, it’s something. Again, knowing it was Qaos, “kiln” jumped out at me immediately – a trick he’s used before. Had the setter been someone else I might’ve stared for ages. “Numerical” was my last one in and I agree with Eileen – very cleverly done. With the crossers I was wondering about “eugenic” for a while but that’s “Brave New World” not 1984.

    “Penguin” was a bit weak I felt – the apostrophe in “training’s” is only there for the surface and actually suggests the wordplay follows a definition of “bird training”, and NG from “no good” a bit “that’ll do” but many other clues were a delight to solve. Cat = heave was new to me. A pity “stole” in 18 could not have been “nicks” for the singer Stevie Nicks, but as it is written it is an elegant and beautifully misleading clue. A pity about the band name appearing as “mack” not “mac” and surely 22 could’ve been “time” to fit the theme?

    Many thanks Qaos, as ever a setter from a slightly rotated dimension to the rest, and to Eileen for educating us as ever.

18. Having gone to school in Fleetwood, I got the theme early on. Sadly, being a musical ignoramus, it didn’t help me much. I couldn’t parse TANGOS. Enjoyable, nevertheless.

    Thanks to Qaos and Eileen.

19. They’re still hard at it, half a century on. Starting a long tour of Australia on August 9th, so I’m told. Maybe Julie in Australia will get to see them. Struggled to see heave, last one in…

20. thezed @ 17 Ditto re. ‘time’ & ‘nicks’ (which I thought could have replaced ‘steals’ in 12d).

    Wordplay in 12d doesn’t really work for me and I didn’t know the vomit meaning (thought cat = pull = heave from sailing; specifically anchors).

    Didn’t spot the theme until very late despite being a fan (and also having had them referenced in a conversation about the specific meaning of eponym a couple of days ago – named after Fleetwood and McVie but not by them apparently).

    Fantastic puzzle so thanks to Qaos and Eileen.

21. Totally missed Fleetwood Mac (k). I loved the original bluesy incarnation led by Peter Green. But no ‘Oh Well’ or ‘Green Manalishi’ here. I’m sure we had this theme before though…? Tusk and Rumours ringing bells. 17 down made me smile and yes 7 ac very clever. It’s been a good week so far. Thanks Qaos and Eileen

22. Hmmm. Theme out of my league, though a vinyl of Rumours is somewhere in the basemen. Eric the author and where the Scargill v Thatcher battle was at in that iconic year were also in the basement, of my brain. Love the layers of meaning, even though they mostly elude me, so thanks all for the elucidation. Cat for vomit, otoh, was a total dnk, in neither basement nor attic. Elect Ron and tango, plural, were cute. Thanks both.

23. 24a BOLOGNA

24. Yes, meant to mention, Eileen, that in the excitement you missed out the sausage at 24.

25. Thanks to Qaos and Eileen. Lovely puzzle and I got the theme from rumours, unfortunately that was also my last one in (having convinced myself it would begin with sup). I could kick myself because they are one of my favourite bands and have just released a new album called Fifty Years Don’t Stop. Hey ho I was another fan of numeric and I also liked electron and penguin. Thanks again to Qaos and Eileen.

26. Thank you Qaos and Eileen.

    The theme went Over My Head, but I wanted to enter Albatross at 10a…

    As Eileen points out, the clue for NUMERIC was great, as was that for TEXTBOOK.  I seem to remember we had “cat” for “vomit” only a few years back, but I cannot find the clue on “search”.

27. PS, found it, Arachne, 26,170, January 30th 2014, 16d “RETCH (to vomit; in slang to “cat”)”.

28. Missed the theme even knowing that Qaos always has one, but enjoyed it nonetheless. Favorites were ELECTRON and KILN (a signature Qaos clue, and unlike thezed @17, I had never seen that one before). I also appreciate NUMERIC a lot more thanks to Eileen’s explanation. On the other hand, I missed MACK and had to come here for the parsing even after revealing it – d’oh!

    Thanks to Qaos and Eileen.

29. The first time I ever remembered at the start of a solve “always a theme with Qaos,” and it got me no farther than it did Eileen.  And now I see why.

    But it was a lovely puzzle anyway, thanks to Qaos, and thank you Eileen for straightening me out about cats and others.  (Zoe the resident cat doesn’t approve.)

    I think of the coat, as well as the band, as being spelled “mac.”

30. Thanks to Qaos and Eileen.

    I enjoyed this without ever thinking of a theme and it wouldn’t have helped anyway. Getting fonder of Qaos with every puzzle and I liked ELECTRON for its humour. (Hadn’t heard previously that Victoria Wood had passed on – she raised many a chuckle in this wizened breast, and will again thanks to a voluminous output, so much of it on record. Gratitude and respect.)

31. Saw them twice -once at the Roundhouse circa 1968 with all three guitarists (J Cocker and Grease Band opening) then around 1975 in Passaic with new line-up. How could they do Green Mana whatsit with only one guitarist? The answer was “no problem”-it was my first glimpse of the Duke of Buckingham-whether they did GM or not, he seemed to play three guitar parts at once.

    Both gigs are firmly entrenched in what vaguely passes as a memory.

32. I did briefly think of Fleetwood Mac when I saw TUSK and RUMOURS, but failed to spot the band! For those who wanted to see MAC, there are few grids in the Guardian library that contain three-letter words, so there’s not much choice.

    I also particularly liked NUMERIC and TEXTBOOK, as well as KILN and ELECTRON.

    Thanks Qaos and Eileen.

33. My adult kids, recently: Dad, you have to see this video of F. M. from the 70’s, it’s great.
    Me: Hmm, yes. I was in the audience.
    Despite that, John Peel and many other connections, I missed the theme.

    I’d like to know what people think about “small” in 20d FULLUP. It’s not necessary, either for the surface or the wordplay. It could be to suggest that F and P are close, both linguistically and orthographically, but that seems unlikely. If it is meant to pair with “change” to suggest 1p=money, then the swap is going in the wrong direction.

    Thanks.

34. Loved 6.
    Only saw the theme after completion and reading 225.
    12d. Cat = heave new to me.
    Thanks for all comments.

35. …pfennig…? … just musing..

36. Didn’t remember that Qaos = Theme (I never remember to look for themes – I’ll have to tattoo a reminder on the inside of my eyelids). As soon as I read the first few words of Eileen’s blog I took a look and there it was, as obvious as could be. Loved the puzzle but found the shape of the grid a little annoying as it acted more like several mini-grids.

    I just had to assume that cat = HEAVE because I dnk that usage and thought it could only be that answer. Some spectacularly good clues today; it looks like there is broad consensus as to the best.

    Thanks Qaos and Eileen.

37. I only knew three of the themers, but that was enough to signpost it for me. An enjoyable puzzle, which took me much less time than Arachne yesterday.

    Thanks to Qaos and Eileen

38. Thanks for revealing the layers of NUMERIC Eileen – it makes it a brilliant clue. Like others I also double ticked ELECTRON and I really liked PSEUD (I couldn’t see what the anagram could possibly be until the P went in) and the neat IGNORE. RUMOURS was loi thanks to MrsW but I still stared unsuccessfully at the grid for the theme despite being very family with FM. Great stuff – thanks again Eileen and to Qaos for the entertainment.

39. Afternoon all! Many thanks for all the comments and to Eileen for the blog. I’ve very glad the extra elements to 7 ac were picked up.

    I did try and fit ALBATROSS in at 10 ac, but it forced too many obscure entries and so was quickly changed. Solving fun should always come before a theme. “Nicks” in 12 dn was also possible, but I thought it needed to be capitalized to work fairly.

    Best wishes,

    Qaos

40. I spotted the theme (on the “Qaos always has a theme” rule), but only just in time to help. The albums from before Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham joined the band are more or less unfamiliar to me, unfortunately, so I had to go look them up.

    It’s intwresting to see the mix of people who found the theme and those that didn’t.

41. Thanks Qaos and Eileen

    I didn’t understand HEAVE, though it was easy enough to get. I didn’t parse MARS either.

    I’ve only heard of a “mac” for the coat. SOUR isn’t the same as “bitter” (different receptors).

    In contrast to many others, I really dislike the “Qaos speciality” at 6d. It doesn’t make sense. 750g is 3/4 of a kilogram(me), not of KILO (which is a prefix meaning 1000).

    On the other hand, I really liked ELECT RON!

42. Now I see the theme this is even more enjoyable. I actually liked their middle line-up best: after Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer left, but before Buckingham and Nicks lifted them to the stratosphere. Christine McVie, Danny Kirwan and Bob Welch took over the singing and songwriting, and made a wonderful album called Future Games, and a nice one called Bare Trees.  I entertained the notion it was foodstuffs (PENGUIN, BOLOGNA, SOY BEANS: not much of a theme, even if you include MACK).

    Not familiar with cat as HEAVE in that sense, but the wordplay was pretty firm, likewise bible TEXTBOOK, though I liked the ‘wearing stole’ element.  Other favourites: NUMERIC (and i didn’t even see the George Orwell connection), TUSK, KILN and IGNORE.

    Thanks Q and E.

43. muffin @ 41

    How about “I bought a kilo of potatoes yesterday” ?

44. Oh yes, as Muffin @41 points out ELECTRON was another clever clue.  Didn’t he win an election in 1984 as well? Or was it 1884 (he was getting on)?

45. Great puzzle, kudos to Qaos (even though I completely missed the theme, not knowing much about Fleetwood Mac, with or without the k).
    Loved NUMERIC, PENGUIN, RUMOURS, ELECTRON.
    Gave a “heave” of relief for my LOI cat!
    Thanks Eileen for the blog and confessional 🙂

46. Saw the theme once it was pointed out and promptly kicked myself. I liked the Peter Green version of the band but the later incarnations were a bit mainstream for me but I have been known to tap the odd foot to RUMOURS. I did like NUMERIC but I did wonder if I was reading too much into it with the Blair/Orwell bit. 12dn had to be HEAVE but I didn’t know we’re the ‘cat’ fitted in. I loved ELECTRON: I was no fan of REAGAN at the time but I’d gladly have him back to replace the current clown!
    Thanks Qaos.

47. 1961Blanchflower @44 Ronald Reagan? The actor? It always brings back memories of Back to the Future. It was a super clue. As was “proteins” – I even said it to myself out loud, “pro teens. Hmm. What are pro teens?” Doh.

    Muffin @41 I agree re “mac” not “mack” for both – but as the coat is short of mackintosh I suspect the abbreviation is OK. I also baulked a little at sour vs bitter which trigger, as you say, different receptors in taste (it always amuses me that the German for acid is Sauerstoff, as if you were going to go round tasting different types to identify them). But if you use them for moods (“A bitter/sour person”) they are closer tough I’d still put a few shades of difference between them.

48. Simon S @43

    Wouldn’t a kilometre of potatoes be rather a lot to buy?

49. muffin @ 48

    I assume your tongue is in your cheek. Have you ever heard anyone say “I ran four kilos”? OK, a drug smuggler maybe, but they would be talking about weight too.

50. To thezed @47. When I was doing chemistry A-level I read some old (old for even then) texts and it seems that early experimenters DID taste all kind of things that today we never would. Oxygen is similarly named (because back then they thought oxygen, not hydrogen, was required for acids).

51. This Kenyan could not get the theme as it’s UK- centred thus failed at 15a, my only error.(wrote BARK). LOI 25a.

52. Thanks for all the comments – and especially to Qaos for dropping in. [I’ve been out for [a long] lunch with Conrad and Ali Cork. The talk did, occasionally, turn to crosswords.]

    Yes, it’s interesting to see who got / did not get the theme. I’m glad I’m not completely alone – thanks again for the help.

    Apologies for the missing sausage at 24ac. I don’t know how it slipped from my ‘copy and paste’ – a pity, because I liked it. I’ll amend the blog for the sake of the archive.

    muffin @41 – you’re full of surprises: here was I thinking that ELECTRON would be the one you’d object to.

53. I too couldn’t find a theme despite much poring. I should perhaps have remembered that Qaos is quite well- versed in 1970s music and has used it as a theme in the past – and I missed it then too, having grown up with setters whose GK stops about 50 years before I was born, lol !!

54. Eileen @52

    Yes, “a little bit of negative” might have been more accurate, but I forgive it!

55. Good fun but, as usual, we completely failed to spot the theme. We needed Eileen’s excellent blog for parsing TANGOS & HEAVE, although on looking up agree with ngaiolaurenson@16 that the nautical reference may be better known. ELECTRON a favorrite and – pace muffin – had no problems with KILN or RUMOURS. It is ‘just a crossword puzzle’ after all . . .

56. No clue about the theme but enjoyed it anyway, as I beat Mrs Job for once. Some retrospective admiration for TANGOS and NUMERIC after reading the blog so thanks Eileen. Lots more to enjoy all mentioned above but congrats to Qaos with so many satisfied customers.

57. Great theme. [Loved Tusk and Rumours but not their later stuff, so won’t be seeing them when in Oz, Ronald (Sorry, on mobile, no numbers@).] [However currently en route to the US so I will be seeing the Rolling Stones in New Jersey on Aug 1.]
    Thanks to Qaos for the fun and Eileen for the usual interesting blog. As previously mentioned by several, ELECTRON was my firm favourite! I only got the ERIC part of NUMERIC from ERIC Blair.

58. [I loved the earlier Peter Green incarnation, and “Fleetwood Mac”, “Rumours” and “Tango in the Night”. I have really tried to like “Tusk”, but I haven’t succeeded!

    We went to listen to Peter Green in the band that Cozy Powell had created for him. It was all a bit sad – he didn’t look like he had a clue where he was. I think Powell was killed in a car crash not long after.]

59. Julie in Australia – have a fantastic trip!

60. I think I never spotted a Qaos theme so quickly.
    First one in was MIRAGE, followed by HOUSE.
    Enough to try and find the KILN that was lacking.
    Then – third one in – (Mr) WONDERFUL, and Bingo!
    No bare trees, and heroes are hard to find too.

    The theme helped but the crossword as a whole wasn’t a write-in.
    Only clue my solving partner found iffy was 9ac (because of ‘go’ and ‘on’).
    And talking about ‘go’, the grammar police wouldn’t like its use in 13ac either.
    But I know how Qaos thinks about these things, so I won’t complain.

    Many thanks as ever to Eileen and to Qaos.

61. Thanks Qaos, enjoyed this and a good level of difficulty I thought. Didn’t know the cat and couldn’t parse parse 7a or 19d but think they’re very clever.

    I got MARS and PENGUIN early on, leading to an incorrect guess at the theme and a lot of wasted time looking for more chocolate bars!

62. I enjoyed this puzzle, even though I could not parse KILN & TANGOS – very clever!

    New for me were the comedienne Victoria WOOD & PSEUD.

    My favourites were RUMOURS + ELECTRON (Loi).

     

    Thanks Qaos and Eileen.

63. I did assume that “small change to starter” in clue for FULL UP specifically referenced the small difference between P and F. This is Qaos after all. But then he didn’t mention it; perhaps he’s too modest and thought that would seem immodest. Or perhaps I’m too in awe? Though I’m right to be – this was yet another thoroughly enjoyable puzzle from Qaos. Wasn’t WONDERFUL delightful? Shame about the unabated quibbles above – I concluded yonks ago that such vacuous niceties were beneath the greats of our Guardian stable, present and past, thank Heaven! Enough of that. But I’d still love to know whether that wording was intentional for the P/F thing. No-one else mentioned it so maybe not….?
    Super blog, Eileen. Many thanks, Qaos

64. Didn’t know about the puking pussy, and decided that the clue for 12d should read “Cast steals . . .” On the grounds that cast = heave, sort of

65. Ronald @11.20

    As a fellow Aussie, I’d love to go see Fleetwood Mac here. There’s no Lyndsey Buckingham now, but his replacements are more than adequate: Crowded House’s Neil Finn and Tom Petty’s colleague Mike Campbell.

66. Didn’t see the Fleetwood theme but knew there had to be one. With PSEUD and SPEAK crossing in the middle I found some of the consecutive clues pure genius: (in a plummy voice) ‘at a party last night, had a WONDERFUL TAME but then couldn’t sleep, terrible NIGHT MARS’.

    Ah well, a little imagination is a wonderful thing.

67. Not sure about cat = sick, but in nautical terms you ‘cat an anchor’, meaning to heave it up.

68. Ref. 7a.  …….Is 1948’s connection to Eric Blair a coincidence, then?

69. Woops …1984

70. Like others, got heave from latter part of clue but couldn’t see where cat came in. Tried googling cat and heave – got nowhere and now, after reading Eileen’s remembered definition, tried googling cat and vomit – still got nowhere! Does anyone have a reference for this? I have to say, I found Brian’s theory at 67 more convincing!

71. theKPs @70 – if you’re still there – as I said, I remembered that definition from a while ago [which cookie confirmed @27 – Arachne 26,170] and so didn’t look it up at the time of blogging. ‘To vomit’ is the last definition of ‘cat’ as a verb in Chambers.

72. Thank you Eileen! May I just say – I think your possibly my favourite blogger…

     

73. Yes, good blog Eileen, and thanks to Qaos too. I have just about twigged that Qaos often has a theme but don’t know FM. Heard of rumours but never listened to it.
    Disappointed, as a maths graduate, to fail at numeric but such a clever clue. Cat new to me.
    Kilo debate ?

74. That ? was a laughing face at my end.

75. Welcome, Timtimmytim, if you’re new – and if you’re still there.

    It’s too long ago for me to remember this puzzle!

    See here for smiley faces

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