Guardian 27,923 – Imogen

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Apart from a few easy clues that got me started, I didn’t seem to be on Imogen’s wavelength at all this morning, and found this quite a struggle. One partially defective clue, I thought, and a couple of cases of anagram fodder appearing unchanged in the answer. Thanks to Imogen

 
 
 
 
 
 
Across
5. BEIRUT City announced part of coastal path (6)
Homophone of “bay route”
6. MUTTER Complain of a foreign parent (6)
Double defnition – Mutter is German for mother
9. BOVARY Emma, born with appropriate gland (6)
B + OVARY (gland, appropiate for a woman)
10. IS THAT SO I don’t believe host is at party (2,4,2)
(HOST IS AT)* – a bit of a flaw that IS appears unchanged in the answer
11. FEAR Supposed political project at advanced stage taking in English (4)
E in FAR – referring to “Project Fear”, a derisive term use to attack the Remain campaign in the 2016 UK referendum
12. POT NOODLES Snack, not bad, fed to dogs (3,7)
NOT* in POODLES
13. SEA CROSSING Easing unusual burden carried in ferry trip (3,8)
CROSS (a burden, as in “a cross to bear”) in EASING*
18. DOG’S DINNER Meat typically offered in mess (4,6)
Double defnition
21. DUET Proper time for a little music (4)
DUE + T
22. MANTEGNA Method, say, in which to obtain backing for an artist (8)
Reverse of GET (obtain) in MANNA, a homophone of “manner” = method. The artist is Andrea Mantegna, 1431 – 1506
23. ELEVEN French pupil’s name and number (6)
ÉLÈVE (French for pupil – basically one “brought up”, as in elevate) + N[ame]
24. SIENNA Girl is turning brown (6)
Reverse of ANNE IS
25. AMULET An obstinate type last to manifest charm (6)
A + MULE + [manifes]T
Down
1. DISAGREE Drop in crucial point in conflict (8)
SAG (drop) in DIRE E (compass point)
2. BUNYIP Australian monster rabbit, gutted, very cheap (6)
BUNNY less its middle letter, + 1P (one penny – very cheap). The bunyip is a monster is Australian aboriginal mythology
3. LUSTROUS Shining with desire: ours is amazing (8)
LUST (desire) + OURS*
4. AT HAND By being executed, prophet died (2,4)
NATHAN, OT prophet (immortalised in the opening line of Handel’s coronation anthem: “Zadok the priest, and Nathan the prophet…”), “beheaded” + D
5. BOÖTES To jeer at items performed upset stars (6)
BOO + reverse of SET (list of items performed by musicians/entertainers). Boötes is a constellation whose name means herdsman or ploughman
7. RUSHES Swiftly advances strategies to snare husband (6)
H in RUSES
8. PILTDOWN MAN One metre down, plant foolish hoax (8,3)
Anagram of 1M DOWN PLANT. This has the same flaw as 10a, with DOWN: perhaps a more serious case. See here for the story of the famuos hoax
14. CRINGING Showing 11, caught what may be in one’s ears (8)
C + RINGING
15. NED KELLY Hanged man whose eye is number one (3,5)
“KELLY’s eye” represents the number one in Bingo calls, though this doesn’t seem to account for the NED part of the name of the famous Australian outlaw
16. MORASS Dangerous situation traps soldiers in great numbers (6)
OR (other ranks, soldiers) in MASS
17. BEHEST Man enters top command (6)
HE (man) in BEST (top)
19. SITREP Military account some units forward in the wrong direction (6)
SI (Système Internationale – system of units) + reverse of PERT. Military abbreviation of “situation report”
20. RHEUMY Persian poet sounds affected by cold (6)
Homophone of Rumi

60 comments on “Guardian 27,923 – Imogen”

  1. I found this difficult and was unable to finish it. I failed to solve SITREP and DISAGREE, and I failed to parse the IP part of BUNYIP, as well as NED KELLY.

    New word for me was PILTDOWN MAN.

    My favourites were MUTTER, ELEVEN, AT HAND, BEIRUT.

    Thanks Andrew and Imogen.

  2. Thanks Andrew and Imogen. I needed you for several explanations.

    I am afraid I gave up on this with several clues to go, finding it rather tedious, and especially because of the grid with its short words around the borders.

     

    10a “party” suggests an anagram? Not to me.

     

     

  3. Thanks Imogen and Andrew

    The least enjoyable puzzle I’ve attempted for ages – also the least successful, as I gave up with several in the SW not done. I had no idea on FEAR and got it from CRINGING rather than from its clue.

    BOVARY, RHEUMY and NED KELLY very much relied on GK rather than wordplay.

    I quite liked POT NOODLES, as in our house they are referred to as “not poodles”.

  5. Thanks Imogen, Andrew

    Yep, a struggle.  I gave up in the end, revealing most of the top left + SITREP.  Bay route I found particularly tenuous for part of coastal path.  Normally when you’re asked to work out something that’s an invention rather an actual thing there’s some indication that it’s fanciful. The manna/manner homophone was another grumble – not just because of the ‘r’ but because it’s split, so you don’t actually get the sound in the solution.

    On the NED missing from the wordplay in 15d, I didn’t know the bingo number, but googled ‘Ned Kelly’s eye’ and found nothing helpful.

    As a general point, grids like this one are good for compiling themed puzzles because most of the solutions don’t have checked first letters.  But it’s really a 13×13 puzzle.

  6. Yep hard work, a dnf, failing at sitrep, and not following the Brexit saga in detail couldn’t parse fear. Also missed the 1p bit of bunyip, d’oh, and the bingo ref in Ned Kelly, never having played it (or knowing anyone who has). Otherwise didn’t mind the workout (pot noodles took ages, they’re instant, or two-minute, here, but brought a wry grin). Brief eyebrow flicker about mass = great numberS. Thanks both.

  7. Thanks for persevering, Andrew. I agree with your reservations.

    I don’t usually give up on the Guardian puzzle but there was no joy in this one so, like others, I did. Julius in the FT [where there were a couple of interesting coincidences] restored my good humour, as always.

    Thanks for the puzzle, Imogen, but it wasn’t my cup of tea today.

  8. I didnt get the accent in BOOTES. I found it tough because there were not too many “friendly” clues to give me a look-in. But in retrospect it was very good and a full-strength Imogen was overdue. Thanks to setter and Andrew.

    (Funny seeing SITREP and BOVARY in two puzzles today)

  9. …. yes took ages to remember that particular Emma (not Woodhouse or Watson), and to get the split homophone for the artist, so groaned first then enjoyed them after…

  10. Glad to see others found this a struggle and also less than enjoyable. If yesterday required a lot of GK I’d say this was at least as bad. As with other comments I noted 5A as poor for not indicating a “jokey” term rather than a real one, a lot of poor synonyms and the two dodgy anagrams, “pot noodles” = “snacks” not “snack”, “dogs dinner” (which is not typically meat but vitally a mix of grain with protein etc), “dire” = “crucial”, “great numbers” = “mass” (why plural?)

    There are puzzles which make you think, and then realise how clever they are when you get them. This, for me, was not one of those.

    Thank you Andrew for the careful unpicking.

  11. Perhaps of interest, it is thought “Kelly’s eye” might come from the eye-slit in the metal helmet Ned Kelly wore with his armour – in which the police feared him to be a BUNYIP.

    Thank you Andrew for the blog, I am not in a crossword solving mood at the moment with all this Brexit fiasco.

     

     

  13. Add to general discomfort at this. Thanks Andrew for parsing, and Imogen for writing it.

    Kelly’s eye new, as is Mantegna. Others, 7d, 17d, 24a and 25a standard fare. Jim the poodle approved of 12a and 18a: latter now being had, he’s curled up on his blanket.

  14. Could I politely ask commenters here please not to give spoilers, however indirect, for puzzles in other papers. They point us in a direction, which may not be wanted.

  16. TheZed @10

    I would feel hard done by if there was only one noodle in a pot of “pot noodles”!

    (In fact I wouldn’t be upset, as I can’t stand them 🙂 )

  17. muffin @16 I quite agree re the erstaz ramen (to get all macaronic in my reply.) I’m not sure there’s even a single real noodle in there – probably some reconstituted polymeric noodle substitute! But the “snack” is called “pot noodle” so my point is the clue is wrong in using a singular to clue a plural. As is “mass” for “great numbers” – I can see a mass of people is a great number of people but not a “great numbers”.

  19. It took me until 7d to get started and then I enjoyed it until the NW corner which needed so much guess and check I might as well have revealed them. BUNYIP must be one for our Australian friends – I’d never heard of it and thought the wordplay a stretch unless you had. I usually find Imogen a challenge and liked that all the clues were concise. Like others I got FEAR from CRINGING and then thought it was a clever clue. On balance I think I enjoyed more than most – thanks to Imogen for providing variety and Andrew for explaining everything.

  20. Thanks to both.

    Not for me either although I found merit in POT NOODLES and, erm, MUTTER. Do I recall from my distant youth that some famous Kelly only had one eye?

     

  21. Some nice clues but this didn’t keep my interest and had rather too many weak spots for me.

    TheZed @ 17 Real noodles but definitely not ramen (not a fan nor an expert but recently visited the cup noodle museum in Yokohama and couldn’t fail to be impressed by the passion and motivation of Momofuko Ando).

    Cookie @ 11 Heard that a few times (most assertively from a tour guide at Melbourne Jail) and I’ve always wondered why the horizontal slit would be associated with the number one?

    Thanks to Imogen and Andrew.

  22. I found this hard and couldn’t parse the ones that others also had trouble with, but I liked it, maybe because I happened to guess everything correctly, including the unheard of BOOTES, my last in. The ‘Persian poet’ was also unknown and RHEUMY bunged in from the def.

    I enjoyed the ‘appropriate gland’ at 9a, the cunning ‘By’ def for 4d and the tricky MANTEGNA.

    Thanks to Imogen and Andrew

  23. A miserable experience, frankly. There are always going to be painters, rivers, etc. that I’m not familiar with, so in those cases I’ll construct them from the wordplay, verify via google, and move on. However, I feel forced to say a word or two on NED. What I think makes it a bum clue is that the connection between the outlaw and the bingo term is only conjectured, unlike other such terms whose origin is agreed. That makes it too indirect in my book, without either a hint at bingo or the conjecture or taking part of the name (something setters are quite good at indicating).

  24. p.s.

    Forgot to ask if anyone else found 20 back to front? Seems to indicate ‘Rumi’ (but works in a tortured way).

    And that I liked the crossing of kelly with amulet, anyone else remember ‘Valiant’?

  25. Another here who struggled with this. It was a struggle from the start. A DNF for me because failed on Bovary and of course bunyip (I would not have got this even if I kept going until Christmas). In fact I spent an awful long time on the NW before giving up. That said I got much further than I thought I would at one point, and thanks to Imogen for the challenge and Andrew for a valiant blog.

  26. 10a I don’t believe that “is that so” means I don’t believe. Although I do slightly admire a clue that feels wrong on three different levels. That said, I do have a soft spot for Imogen.

  27. Bodycheetah @26

    When I’ve heard someone say “is that so?” he always meant “I don’t believe a word of it”!

  28. Thanks both,

    Failed on ‘disagree’ but otherwise ingenious, if a bit clunky at times. I disagree about ‘pot noodle’. If someone asked me if I wanted a snack, and in the extremely unlikely event that I wanted them, I might reply ‘pot noodles’; not in the singular. Similarly, ‘peanuts’ is a snack, not ‘peanut’. OTOH, are pot noodles a snack? They are a bit substantial for that and are really a meal. Observation of the contents of supermarket trolleys hereabouts suggests many of our very welcome Asian students subsist almost entirely on them. And not a few UK students.

     

  30. Probably the toughest non-prize puzzle of the year so far – I only finished with plenty of help from the Check button, and can’t say I enjoyed it much

    Thanks to Imogen and Andrew

  31. Didn’t know about the bingo call for  Kelly’s eye.  I thought it was a poor homophone for the Australian pronunciation of A = eye. But like Andrew, can’t explain the NED bit.

  32. Yes, too many vague synonyms and obscure definitions.

    Is “mutter” synonymous with “complain”? If you complain, you may well mutter… but you can also mutter praise.

    Is “dire” really “crucial”? Something may be crucial, but not dire, and vice-versa.

    Needed the blog to parse “AT HAND”.

    But I liked a few – “BUNYIP” I was pleased to get (isn’t there a song about it?) and glad I knew of Rumi.

    Thanks Imogen and Andrew.

  33. I found this quite hard and needed some electronic assistance, but I enjoyed it more than a lot of people seem to have done.  I liked BUNYIP and PILTDOWN MAN  (maybe partly because I was pleased with myself for remembering them).

    Just to respond to one or two of the criticisms:

    I’m not keen on some of the dubious anagram indicators we see these days, but “party” seemed fine to me – if the letters party, it suggests they dance around.

    An anagram is still a valid anagram if some of the letters remain in the same order – why should this be considered a fault?

    For “mutter”, Chambers has “to murmur, esp in hostility, mutiny or menace; to grumble”.

    Thanks Imogen and Andrew.

  35. Lord Jim @ 33 Because the anagram is supposed to disguise the answer, not give it (or give a massive clue to it).

    Jeremys Iron is a perfectly valid anagram of a famous person but it isn’t genuine class.

    Thanks to Lisa S.

  36. Re 1D, DIRE > CRUCIAL is supported in Chambers eThesaurus, but not the other way round. So it’s probably a draw as to whether it’s {k or not.

  39. Thanks Andrew, this was not my cup of tea, as the various bits of general knowledge were outside my scope. (Persian poets, Australian monsters and artists mainly)

  40. I did find this quite hard and there were a number that I had to parse retrospectively,but I rather enjoyed this.Perhaps it’s a matter of expectations- I expect to struggle with Imogen so it comes as no surprise when I do. Never heard of SITREP though! I liked FEAR even though it was my LOI.
    Thanks Imogen.

  41. Simon S @36 – there are some dead slugs on my patio (I don’t know what my wife has been putting out for them, but I ask her to be mindful of the hedgehogs…). That is dire for the slugs, but not for me – I’m glad they are no longer eating the hostas. At some point, I will have to dispose of the bodies – but it is not crucial…

  42. That was a toughie for me too – as many have said, too many unusual words not in my lexicon that left several  clues unsolved. DUET, ELEVEN and AMULET were FOsI so I recognized NED KELLY without knowing the bingo reference.  I liked BEIRUT.

    I always thought that a mess was called (or could be) a dog’s breakfast, while a dog’s dinner referred to dressing up smartly.

    Thanks to Imogen and Andrew

  43. Top heavy on the GK and therefore in the tough end of the spectrum.

    NW corner especially hard for this reason (bootes, bunyip and Emma bovary) so it was a bit uneven compared to the rest, with only two letters connecting to the rest of the grid.

    Quite a few too many “hmms, is that so” moments, as already said. “Mutter” was good.

  44. We completed, but found it very hard, and agree not much fun. The clue for DOGS DINNER is wrong. You are dressed up like a dog’s dinner if in all your (possibly excessive) finery; for a mess you need ‘a dog’s breakfast ‘.

  46. Never heard of a bay route. I looked it up. It’s a retro video-game.
    I would say, ‘Is that so?’ in belief, not disbelief.
    Don’t understand dog’s dinner. At all.
    And sitrep is just ridiculous. SI: Système Internationale?? Give me a break.

  47. At 9A, having spent ages assuming that Emma=E, And that I was looking for a gland, I finally saw the light. Beautiful clue. Otherwise I rather agree with the consensus.
    Ta to Imo and Andrew.

  48. DP @47

    Yes, 9 is a well-constructed clue (one of the better ones), but solving it does rather depend on knowing Madame Bovary’s first name…

  49. Hilt @ 46

    I think you’re being unduly harsh. SI units are in everyday use – kilograms, centimetres, litres, so on and so forth. Not knowing their overarching authority is not a reflection on the fairness of the clue.

  50. Yes – I expect that many people will have heard of the SI system of units without actually knowing what SI stands for!

  51. I parsed sitrep as 1s (some units) forward in the wrong direction, but was a bit dubious, Andrew has it right of course.
    Found just as hard as most others, but really glad did not give up but rather waited for reinforcements — Project Fear brilliant clue!
    For some strange reason, Imogen is always on my wavelength, even if I can’t do the clues. When I had just finished rereading every single Jane Austin, she promptly comes up with a crossword devoted to Austin heroines. A few weeks ago, we sadly lost our beloved dog, whom I called Puppy to the last. A kind friend gave us a bottle of bubbly to drink a toast to him, and just as we’d raised the glasses to our lips, there was Imogen’s clue about toasting pet TO PUP!

  52. muffin @50 SI stands for “international system” just as CERN stands for “European organisation for nuclear research” (to save people looking it up, it’s “Conseil Europeen pour la recherche nucleaire”.) If you follow my drift.

    Oddly, some acronyms do change with place (vis NATO becoming OTAN, AIDS becoming SIDA) but not these examples. In the case of CERN I think it is one of those cases of an acronym becoming a term in its own right, but with SI I suspect calling it the “international system of units” is just laziness.

    Having said that, SI is at the basis of GCSE/O level science (unless you were at school a very long time ago) so is as fair game as knowing nouns from verbs.

  53. TheZed @52: My favourite is UTC for Coordinated Universal Time, which is a compromise abbreviation between the desires of English and French speakers, who wanted CUT and TUC respectively!

  54. A considerable struggle, but got there eventually – NW corner the trickiest for me. Loved POT NOODLES, PILTDOWN MAN and BUNYIP. Many thanks to I & A.

  57. Sorry, Imogen. There are a lot of miserable old buggers out there and they all seem to be out in force today. I thought I was one myself, but no! In comparison, I’m a beacon of happiness and good cheer. For what it’s worth, I enjoyed your puzzle for the most part. I was pleased when my GK came in handy and, thanks to Mr Google, I was happy to add to it when it wasn’t. So sucks to them!

  59. I failed in the NW corner, missing Bootes and Bovary, despite being at least vaguely familiar with both. I found most of this puzzle quite hard, but enjoyed it (slowly) nonetheless. Don’t think I would have got dire, but I’m fine with all the rest. Cheers to Imogen and Andrew.

  60. Picked up an old copy of the Guardian and spent the next three days solving the puzzle. I agree with many of the comments but I did eventually finish it without cheating, which was very satisfying, and reassures me that my brain is still functioning as I rapidly approach 75.

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