Guardian 27,957 / Chifonie

35 comments on “Guardian 27,957 / Chifonie”

1. Great puzzle – loved BENIGN, LOS ANGELES and DETONATE in particular. Many thanks to Chifonie and Eileen.

2. In 1d, you should have BAN not BAR. In 21d, I took the A as coming from the clue and just ignored the “for”. I also dislike the clueing for 13d.

3. Thanks Eileen – I note you query the “in” in 22a. I missed that one but would query more strongly the “in” in 17a, my LOI. I took some time on this, trying to stuff something for remains into a workshop; misguided by the “in” which was  only there for the surface.

    

   Otherwise an enjoyable puzzle – thanks Chifonie.

4. My experience and thoughts were exactly the same as Eileen’s – including TEA CHEST as a false start and DETONATE as a favourite. Thank you Eileen and Chifonie.

5. 22d

6. Hovis @2 – I can’t believe I did that: I saw the pitfall and thought I’d been so careful – fixed now.

7. Thanks Chifonie and Eileen

   My second and third – TEA CADDY and FALL – were so loose that I “checked” them before entering (“Tea” appearing in another clue made me doubt the former even more). It improved from there, but there were a lot of Tories, weren’t there? Surely it can’t have been intended to have Tory = C in consecutive clues?

   I did like the clue for LOS ANGELES. Other favourites were DETONATE and LIBERATION.

8. I wondered about 21a too, I assumed it was meant as in ’10 a penny’ which some setters seem to use as ‘for’ = ‘a’ but works as ‘for a’ = ‘a’.

   Similar quibbles as you Eileen but the repetition of tory = c in consecutive clues also stood out and (whilst I was aware of the attack) the use of ‘having’ in 12a made me wonder if a stoop was also the name for a perch (seems not).

   Some nice cluing though and a pleasant surprise for a Monday.

   Thanks to Chifonie and Eileen.

9. Another tea chest here…made more sense as a box to me. For “Br” = “brown” you see it in electrical circuits, especially in the old days of wiring a plug (am I the only person who still does that?). The helpful mnemonic was the BRown = Bottom Right and BLue = Bottom Left as you look into the plug. Easier than the Quiptic I’d say.

10. Teas chest was my first one in. This is a perfect illustration of why I beieve the cryptic definition, unsupported by and other word play, is completely unacceptable as a clue type.

11. Couldn’t parse 12a MERLIN. Another with TEA CHEST to start until 14a wouldn’t work with the crossers. I also circled the Tories.

    I quite liked the CD for 16d CLAPPERS.

    Thanks to Chifonie and Eileen.

     

12. thanks Eileen for the parsing of merlin and los angeles, both of which eluded me. Yet another with tea chest first; I think of tins rather that boxes for caddies. Nice to see a gastro bacterium other than E coli for a change.

13. I’ve fallen into the caddy/chest trap before so waited until I’d solved 6 and 7d before writing in the second word.  I’d agree with Eileen (and Andrew) about clues like 13d being ‘nebulous’

    Thanks to Eileen and Chifonie

14. I mostly enjoyed this although I was fooled by LOS ANGELES until the penny dropped.  I did not know or have forgotten that tongue = clapper.  Here in Spain, where I live, there are clappers/clackers for the Good Friday procession, and an eerie sound they make as well.  My favourites were STOLID for its aptness, BENIGN and GAINSAID.  My thanks to Chifonie and, as ever Eileen.

15. I couldn’t parse MERLIN. I think Definition in Wordplay is OK, although some don’t like it. However, ‘in America’ is not a good definition – even ignoring the vagueness, it should be ‘that’s in America,’ although that doesn’t help much.

    Some nice clues and an entertaining solve.

    Thanks Chifonie and Eileen.

16. Nothing much new here, another held up by tea chest. I also spent a lot of time on 17a by assuming the engineer was leading to a word beginning re in front of some remains. Last one was benign and on reflection that and seminar (for holding me up so long) were my favourite clues. Overall a very pleasant Monday solve and thanks to both Chifonie and Eileen.

17. Thanks Eileen and Chifonie.

    Unusually I disagree with Eileen (and some other commenters) about LOS ANGELES. I don’t mind a vague definition provided crossers remove ambuguity.The same applies to TEA CADDY – I also had ‘chest’ at first, until crossers put me right.

    I think the definition of SALMONELLA is ‘causing disease’, not ‘disease’. Samonella is a bacterium; it causes the disease salmonellosis.

18. I got 23 and 10 early and was hoping for a theme, but it wasn’t to be.

19. BR is used on racecards to give the colour of a horse.

20. Many thanks, beaulieu @17. I’m kicking myself, because the ‘causing’ was bothering me. I should have looked it up – but I thought I knew what it was![Chambers does give ‘food poisoning caused by such bacteria’ as the second definition.] I’ve amended the blog.

    Thanks, BobW @19.

21. ‘Br’ For brown also appears in racehorse form as opposed to ‘b’ which refers to bay, a very dark brown and the most common colour amongst thoroughbreds. Otherwise, today was a bit of a gentle canter. Thanks to Eileen and Chifonie

22. Lovely blog, as always, Eileen. I should have been alert to a potential cricket term. Like many other solvers, I failed to parse 26a. Note to self: leg = on.
    Many thanks to Eileen and Chifonie.

23. Thanks Chifonie and Eileen.  My favourites were 8a WANDERER and 5d DETONATE, both clever clues with nice surfaces.

    13d LOS ANGELES was interesting in the amount of discussion it has sparked.  Eileen, you suggest that LOSES = “misses out”, but isn’t “out” there to indicate that LOSES goes outside ANGEL?  In which case LOSES just = “misses”.

    I’m not sure I agree with beaulieu @17 about 11a SALMONELLA – I think “disease” was intended to be the definition.  “Causing disease” is not really a proper definition of a bacterium.  In fact isn’t this the basis of your criticism, Eileen, of the definition in 13d?  That is, “in America” describes LOS ANGELES but is not a definition of it.

24. Hi Lord Jim @23 – you’re right re ‘misses out’, of course – yet another careless error, caused by the interval between solve and blog. [I solved this in the middle of the night, when I couldn’t sleep and blogged it when I got up.] The ‘out’ crept in at the last minute, in spite of my having been irritated by ‘out’ for ‘outside’. And you’re right, too, about 11ac, of course [but then, as you know, that was not my original definition] – which leaves me still not liking ‘causing’!

25. Mmm – I think beaulieu is right about SALMONELLA – it would be very loose to define it as a “disease” rather than “disease-causing organism”; in fact, I would complain about it! (The disease it causes is food-poisoning.)

26. It’s all been said really. I had TEA CHEST to begin with but LIBERATION put paid to that. I couldn’t parse IDLE-and I don’t like it much now I’ve seen the explanation-or MERLIN. The latter seems quite reasonable now Eileen has explained it but both were guesses. LOS ANGELES foxed me for some time but I can’t think why now.
    Somehow I didn’t really enjoy this as much as I usually do with Chifonie!
    Thanks anyway.

27. A different thought on TEA CADDY (or chest): surely it’s only a cryptic definition if the automatic reading is something different, such as “engage in the sport of boxing for the country of China”. For me (and maybe this is a result of doing these puzzles for decades) the immediate interpretation was the intended one. That makes it not cryptic at all.

28. Just to say for 12a – coincidentally, a stoop is the name for a post (such as a gatepost) in my part of the country. So, if you were very fortunate, you might see a Merlin perched thereon.
    Thanks to Eileen & Chifonie

29. Thanks to Eileen and Chifonie

    Some very odd stuff here, or perhaps not.

    If we accept Student = Learner = Learner Driver = L, then why not Tory = Conservative = C, or Parson = Priest = P?

    I have never come across China = China tea, perhaps others have. I took the misdirection as being pointed towards a case containing a dinner service or such.

    If 13d is valid then so is:   Penny shelters out in England (5)

    In which proverb is “clappers” used?

30. I’ve seen LEG = ON so many times you’d think I’d remember it, but it still consistently gets me.

31. Dansar @29

    I don’t think the objection was to having “Tory” = C as such – more that it came in two consecutive clues.

    Haven’t you heard the expression “goes like the clappers”? I’ve no idea of its derivation, though 🙂

32. I guess I will add another quibble, that “a treatment for bruising” is a highly-questionable definition of the homeopathic remedy arnica. There does not seem to be any scientific evidence that would support that. Since ice is an acknowledged  treatment for bruising, and ?I had the “c” from the cross clue, I spent quite a while trying to make some sort of “ice” fit the grid with no luck. I eventually revealed, and feel pretty cheated, frankly.

33. I slipped in the shower recently and found arnica gel a highly effective treatment for the resultant bruising, so 21d posed no problems for me!

34. Amusingly, while researching 12a I came across a web page that indicates that merlins specifically don’t stoop when hunting. https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Merlin/lifehistory

35. muffin @31

    Thanks, yes the consecutive Tory thing seemed a bit odd but I can only assume it was deliberate for emphasis.

    My point was really about abbreviations derived from synonyms. It’s the only way I can see PARSON giving P ( Chifonie has previous with MAN = MALE = M ).

    For “clappers”, yes I know the expression, but that’s just idiom – I wondered if there were a proverb which employed it.

    I searched on-line but found nothing. Some very interesting stuff about the RAF though, where some think the phrase originated

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