Guardian Cryptic 28,066 by Brummie

86 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,066 by Brummie”

1. Found this more balanced and more fun than Brummie’s last outing here. A couple of quibbles: in 23d ruin and mar are not really the same, and in 22d the way I read the clue you should be able to replace the “this” with the answer to mean “not taking drink” – where’s the “the”?

   For those who missed the later entries in yesterday’s comments: there was a fun theme (a lot of folks seemed too wrapped up in praising Nutmeg to notice it!). Now it’s my turn to give her credit.

2. Yes a fun and easy stroll from Brummie, nothing awkward except hearsed perhaps which feels a bit made-up. Never heard of Miss Read, or the toxic ricin, but no hindrance. Had the same ? as Manehi about the American bill. Praps our US posters will comment. Thanks both.

3. I thought this was a bit of a mixed bag. I did like several of the clues, including HEARSED and the long anagram at 1a. On the other hand, using ‘Y’ to clue Y in 12a and “omitting ‘s'” as an instruction to omit ‘s’ in 20d just seems lazy, and the former also produces a clumsy surface. All solved and mostly parsed, though, so no real complaints. Thanks to Brummie and manehi.

4. Yet another very rapid solve, in a recent series of write-in puzzles. Too-easy anagrams and only a couple of chuckle-making clues.  Can we have a real fun-challenge now and then, please?

5. No problem finishing this but not, for me, the rapid solve rodshaw @ 4 suggests.  I agree with DaveinNCarolina @ 3 about the ‘Y’ and the ‘s’.  I have never heard of FEE SIMPLE but as it is a hidden clue it is obvious.  Looked for ages at HEARSED, just could not believe it is a word………..but apparently it is. Favourites were SPARK PLUG and TRIGGER FINGER. So thanks to Brummie and manehi for the early blog!  By the way manehi the definition of HIGH KICKS is dance moves not the underlined Secondary school.

6. I too found this a mixed bag – similar reservations to Dave @3 and Dr. WhatsOn @1. I also thought “knuckleduster” a bit weak given the bone and the term used in the weapon are identical etymologically. I had no idea about “thumb ones nose” so thank you Manehi for sorting that out. Otherwise a lot of fun clues but another very quick solve.

7. A bit of a mix up with the placement of the wiki link in the explanation of 2d manehi, and the link also suggests that the. clue for 14a is not strictly correct.

8. “Look Ma, No Hands!” – or in this case – no reference sources utilised. That made me feel very happy about completing this puzzle as there were no unfamiliars and I didn’t feel I needed to do any cross-checking to see if my solutions were correct. However I am with SPanza@5 in saying that it was no doddle and still took me some time to complete.

   My favourite by far was 26a KNUCKLEDUSTER but I also liked 3d ITCHY. I agreed with DaveinNCarolina about liking HEARSED at 4d – I found it an amusing clue.

   No quibbles from me. Thanks to Brummie and manehi.

    

9. [We crossed, TheZed@6, or I would have mentioned you in commenting on KNUCKLEDUSTER. It always interests me that two solvers can have entirely different experiences of particular clues.]

10. Still baffled by the ref to America in 8d.  Like you, Manehi, I hoped someone could shed some light.  I easily got the synonym for nose but that does not complete the parsing.  I had speculated that “thumb on” meant digitally connect but what to do with remaining letters?  Can anyone help with this – if not a US citizen, for e.g, maybe Brummie?  Otherwise, all good fun and thanks for the entertainment and the confirmations.

11. HEARSED of course new to me, and Miss Read isn’t a very familar writer, but otherwise NO WORRIES. Thanks Brummie and Manehi.

12. @DrWhatson

    I had a look at your comment on Nutmeg’s puzzle. You’ve listed several entries and stated it as a theme but not actually said what you think the theme was? Would you care to elucidate for us thickos?

    Brummie’s puzzle way too straightforward

13. 8d – “bill” = bird’s beak = nose in America?

14. Found this straightforward, unlike my usual tussle with Brummie. Miss Read new to me and I also looked at HEARSED for a bit, having never seen this verb. I did like KNUCKLEDUSTER.
    Thanks to Brummie and to Manehi

15. Good fun – loved TRIGGER FINGER, KNUCKLEDUSTER and HOMECRAFT. Like others, a bit bemused by ONE’S NOSE being US usage. Many thanks to Brummie and manehi.

16. I really enjoyed this today. Not easy but all finished and parsed(except thumb one’s nose). Sometimes anagram indicators can become a bit overused- at sea, potty,cooking, deployed and circling – but Brummie integrates them very neatly into the clues’ surface. Thanks for comments everyone. I enjoy them too!

17. Thanks Brummie and manehi

    In 19, I took ‘hull’ as the verb form: if you hull beans or peas, say, you skin them, so there’s no need to go via ‘outer surface’.

18. Julie @9 One man’s Mede is another man’s Persian as they say. Usually the difference in opinion arises when a clue requires a bit of knowledge which is totally obscure to one person and blindingly obvious to the other (the “Miss Read” clue here may well provoke such thoughts but as the solution is so clear from the definition I doubt anyone would be thrown by it). There was one recently which required knowledge of the lyrics of a song in a particular musical and was only solvable by its crossers otherwise. That struck me as annoying – I did not know the song – but others breezed through it “like dustmaids down a drafty hall”.

    But here it is a case of a thing Alan raised in the Grauniad blog a while back, about how different wordplay and solution should be etymologically. I err towards a bit of distance being preferrec, though others mind that less. Luckily we all enjoy different things or the world would be a boring place! Thank you, and many others for your contributions from other countries, cultures, backgrounds and interests – it really is the case I learn something new every day.

19. Thanks Brummie and manehi

    Quite quick, though I got 8d from the crossers and a vague idea of the definition only. HEARSED seems a bit made up to me too.

    Favourites were FEE SIMPLE and NOVEL.

20. Chambers has ruin and mar as synonyms in the thesaurus. I thought this was a good honest crossword and none the worse for that. MAST was a new one for me but couldn’t really be anything else. Quiptic remains the toughest so far this week for me although I wonder if that’s because I expect it to be easy? Thanks to all

21. Some nice easy ones here to get going on for which thanks to Brummie – NOVEL, SIGHT, AND WAGON did not stretch the brain cells overmuch.  So a nice quick solve to start the day.

    At the same level of difficulty, ‘Sir made garbled interpretation (7)’ and ‘She’s sometimes coddled (5)’ would have avoided the devices used which did not please some contributers here.

    Thanks also to Manehi for interpreting GIVER and THUMB ONE’S NOSE, which I had to enter unparsed.

22. I tried to post an image link to illustrate the difference between a busby and a bearskin (as worn by Buckingham Palace guards), but my Google image search for “busby” turned up almost exclusively bearskins!

    A true busby is smaller, flatter, and has a plume at the front.

23. A relatively quick effort (for me) today with a number of most pleasing clues. Held up for a while in the NW by entering the eminently parsable (B)RATTY at 3d plus loi as have never seen or used it – HEARSED.

    Thanks to Brummie and Manehi

24. We did wonder if George IV was ever considered a good king complemented by ER who is, of course ‘one’.

25. Things are only easy if you know the answer!  I was lucky today in that Miss Read was my mother’s favourite author in the 50’s and 60’s but I don’t think she’s particularly well known now.  Also I had heard of beech mast so 20a wasn’t too much of a stretch.

26. Off topic, sorry… Can someone recommend a good thesaurus?

    For forty years we have used a 1977 copy of Roget’s International Thesaurus published by Harper & Row which is well laid out an surprisingly comprehensive, despite the minor irritation of being American and thus having US spellings and terms.  It has served us well but is now sadly falling apart, so needs replacing.  Having looked at some others briefly a year or so ago the seem very superficial by comparison, and I have yet to see a goo on-line thesaurus.

    Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

    Thanks

    PS I am assuming using a thesaurus is not considered cheating – we try to complete the crosswords without it but usually end up resorting to it for one or two clues.

27. Apologies, posted this on yesterday’s blog in error…

     

    Hmm…perfectly reasonable crossword, if a tad on the clunky side for my taste.

    Didn’t know one could be HEARSED but it’s there in Chambers.

    Nicely concealed I’ve in GIVER.

    Dr Whatson @1:  If I may be allowed to hark back, I’m intrigued to know what you thought the theme might have been in yesterday’s Nutmeg.

    Nice week, all.

28. Benpointer @26:  I’ve rather given up on using a Thesaurus, preferring instead the xxcellent Chambers Crossword dictionary edited by, among others, our own Don Manley (aka Pasquale).

    Oh, and ‘no’, approached in the way you are using it – having exhausted all other thought patterns – I don’t think anyone would consider the use of either a dictionary or other reference work ‘cheating’.

    Hope this helps.

29. Yes, a straightforward solve for us as well, especially given MrsW’s ability to see solutions to clues like 1a and 8d from the definition and enumeration. I was working on the anagram fodder for 1a and trying to find the phrase whereas she saw it without needing the wordplay or fodder. It often happens that we solve differently – she from conjuring up synonyms, me from untangling the wordplay. I’m still waiting for a convincing explanation for the wordplay in 8d – and who knew that RICIN came from castor oil beans? That was an unexpected TILT for me, along with HEARSED being a real word. I also didn’t see FEE SIMPLE as a hidden word! I was trying to work out something around “simple as toffee” being an equivalent for “easy as pie” but, not surprisingly failed completely. Ho hum – it may have been a straightforward solve but i still managed to trip myself up. Thanks to Brummie and manehi for putting me straight.

30. On 8 Down, I interpreted ‘Bill in America’ as a link to One Dollar Bills, or ‘Ones’. I don’t know if American’s use ‘Ones’ as a term for a $1 Bill though. Might be overthinking it.

31. Benpointer@26 – I got the latest version of Bradford’s crossword solver’s dictionary a couple of months ago. It’s published by Collins and looks like an alternative to the Chambers William@28 references. For me, how to go about solving crosswords is a purely personal choice – there are no laws like cricket etc. – and it is an individual fun pastime which is enhanced by forums such as this.

32. I knew about RICIN and castor oil beans thanks to Breaking Bad.

    I enjoyed this puzzle even though most of it was pretty straightforward. Just got held up in the SE for a while. HEARSED and GIVER were nice.

33. I’d echo the recommendation for the Chambers Crossword dictionary. The Chambers thesaurus is good as well – I use this in app format, though.

34. I remember ricin being used in the “umbrella murder” in London a few years ago.

35. pfr@32 – I must have missed that episode – I’ll have to watch them again. I’ve just started on the latest series of Better Call Saul – excellent. muffin@34 – I remember the ricin tipped umbrella murder but not any mention of castor oil!

36. WhiteKing @35

    I see what you mean – knowing ricin doesn’t necessarily mean you know the castor oil link! I remember it as being mentioned at the time.

37. There was a (Times?) clue last year that read “One sticking their bill into another’s business?”, so I presume bill can serve as a synonym for nose in that context. It’s not something I’d seen before. Beak, yes, but not bill.

38. No complaints from me. A few new words, others with tricky parsing, the ‘castor oil’ / RICIN association and a digital/manual mini-theme to cap it off.

    Chambers Dictionary (only post-solve, of course) rules, OK?

    Thanks to Brummie and manehi

39. Benpointer @ 26

    If you’re looking for something electronic, I use the Chambers Dictionary and Thesaurus apps, which were available as a discounted combined bundle a few years ago. Not sure whether that still applies.

    I also have Bradford’s Crossword Dictionary and Crossword Solver’s Lists in both hard copy and kindle format. I find the electronic versions a bit clunky on an ipad mini (it may be me), but it does mean I can take theme away with me.

40. Thanks all for the thesaurus, dictionary & app recommendations.  I will follow those up.  🙂

41. I was assisted by the theme and the long clues.

    New for me was FEE SIMPLE.

    I did not understand why ‘in America ‘ was included in 8d. Has it been sorted out now? Apart from that, a fun puzzle.

    Thanks B+S

42. An entertaining puzzle, which I found a little easier than yesterday’s Nutmeg but not exactly what I would call easy. I tried (as always) to get the long ones first, but only 1a yielded quickly.
    I didn’t know MOLLY in that sense, or HEARSED for that matter. I hear NO WORRIES many times a day on my visits to Australia!
    Not long ago I expressed a liking for charade-type clues where the answer-word is split somewhere other than in the obvious place. LIMELIGHT, KNUCKLEDUSTER and HIGH KICKS are of course counter-examples because the wordplay splits them in the way that they are naturally formed. But these clues are of course perfectly sound.
    Thanks to Brummie and manehi.

43. Surely a knuckle is a joint in the finger, made up various structures between two knucklebones?

    Otherwise no quibbles, though fee simple and misread caused me some trouble together because I didn’t know either the legal term or the writer and didn’t see the inclusion. There are several plausible names you might invent that give “wrongly interpret”. Miss Pell? Miss Hear? Miss Take?

44. An American reporting here that I’ve never heard “bill” to refer to a nose, just a bird’s beak. Chris@30, yes, we do routinely refer to $1 bills as “ones,” so I first thought as you did–but then where do you get “nose”? I am still baffled by 8d–sorry!

45. It’s a horrible clue IMO but if you thumb your nose you are connecting a digit to it.

46. @howard I thought the same about KNUCKLE but chambers defines it as “any of the bones that protrude when a joint is bent”. There’s also a knuckle-bone

47. Thank you Brummie for an enjoyable puzzle and manehi for a helpful blog.

    The New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English gives for bill “3 the nose US 1952 – Harold Wentworth and Stuart Berg Flexner Dictionary of American Slang p 37, 1960″

48. @Cookie–thank you! It may have been US slang in 1952, but I’m pretty sure it hasn’t been in use in the last 60 years or so. I can’t recall ever coming across it, even in popular fiction from that era. Goes to show that what the dictionaries have isn’t always a helpful guide to current usage…

49. Iroquois @48, 1952 probably was the first usage in print, The New Partridge Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English dates from 2006.

50. Collins Thesaurus has nose = BILL in both British and American versions.

51. … NOSE = bill is also in the Chambers Thesaurus

52. Cookie and Robi, yes, but I’m still not convinced that reference works are completely up to date on current usage.

53. A couple of people asked what I thought yesterday’s theme was. Maybe living in the US and being bombarded daily with White House antics plus the recent impeachment it was clear to whom REPUBLICAN, LIAR, COMPLETE SCUM, GASLIGHT, CRIMINAL, MONKEY BUSINESS and TOSS(ER) had to refer. Do I really need to spell it out?

54. Dr. WhatsOn @53

    What’s the significance of GASLIGHT in that context?

55. We wondered if Americans would thumb their noses where Brits would cock a snook? Otherwise, Cookie’s erudite find gives a wonderfully arcane solution.

56. muffin @54, Dr Whatson probably has some better examples, but Wiki gives this

    “Journalism professor Ben Yagoda wrote in The Chronicle of Higher Education in January 2017 that the term gaslighting had become topical again as the result of Trump’s behavior, saying that Trump’s “habitual tendency to say ‘X’, and then, at some later date, indignantly declare, ‘I did not say “X”. In fact, I would never dream of saying “X”‘” had brought new notability to the term.”

57. Thanks, cookie. Why “gaslighting”, I wonder?

58. muffin @57, from the play Gaslight and the two films made from it.

59. Aah!  Thanks, cookie, nice link.

60. Nice puzzle.  I finished it last night, which I rarely do — it’s actually a little disappointing not to have something left to work on over breakfast.  But the puzzle wasn’t disappointing at all, nor the blog either.

    michelle@41 — what theme?

    Alan B @42, a friend who had been recently to Australia told me with delight about “no worries,” and thereafter I found myself hearing it everywhere here in the US.

    12A “Moll” used to be a word in the US for a gangster’s girlfriend.  I think the gangster in questions would have been wearing a zoot suit.

    I’ve heard the phrase “fee simple,” but had no idea what it meant.

61. Cookie@56 – that’s perfect. Keeping this relevant to the puzzle, I might have missed one. From the New York Times, “Labeling Trump a narcissist, psychopath, megalomaniac or attention-impaired, or all of the above … but rather is a new LIFE FORM”. Probably not intended by Nutmeg, but apparently it fits.

62. Thumbing noses is occasionally seen by school age children, more likely a finger by adults – middle of course. I’m still trying to induce people that using i or 2 fingers to indicate a number show  “palm side out!!”, to no avail.

63. I always thought it referred to Fanny by Gaslight but having looked that up it seems unconnected. In Roald Dahl’s The Twits the warring couple play tricks on each other to convince the other they are going mad. MrsW sometimes suggests I’m doing a similar thing when I recall some minor event she has no recollection of!

64. Thanks Brummie and Manehi. It always pleases me to see a reference to “Good King George” or Farmer George. Being a rabid ‘horolophile’ I think of him as the man who got Harrison his loot. I think it’s a shame that the film has led to him being remembered as a tad loco/loopy/nuts/potty (Benpointer: my word dinosaur was a Penguin, if I recall correctly, under the generic name Roget and I swore by it).

65. Re yesterday, I didn’t include republican as I was thinking of  a headline to accompany a panels topical awaited decision.

    4dn 20dn 16dn -ing 21dn 8dn 14 dn and now has a 22,23 ac along with 3dn 

66. I parsed 8d as THUMB (= digit) being the connection between the two different definitions of bill = ONES (dollar notes in US) and NOSE (= beak) to get contempt = THUMB ONE’S NOSE.

67. A bit easy but that was OK cos I didn’t have much time today. Good crossword.

68. Thanks both,

    Straightforward, except that I had ‘shipful’ for ‘skinful’. With ‘trigger finger’ for ‘gunslinger’, I wondered if there was a theme of synecdoche.

69. Mrs ginf explained moll as being derived from moglie (pronounced mollyer, approx), which is Italian for wife. It migrated via movies from gangster’s moll to ’50s Oz slang, eg “slack moll”, meaning (put politely) loose woman, then it faded out.

70. Perhaps I’m easily pleased but I had no complaints at all with this. True, I’d not heard of FEE SIMPLE so I had to use the crossers but it was easy enough to find. I thought HEARSED was lovely and the clue made me smile!
    So there was a theme yesterday. Well,well- fancy me missing it!
    Thanks Brummie.

71. Add me to those confused by the US reference in 8d – but I don’t care! I’m fairly certain this is the first time I’ve been able to complete a Brummie! I suddenly feel so clever.

    Btw the version of Gaslight starring Joseph Cotten is definitely worth a watch. It has a very young Angela Lansbury in it as well.

72. Coincidentally, I watched Gaslight just last week when it popped onto my doormat. Not the Boyer/Bergman/Cotton/Lansbury one, but the slightly earlier version with Anton Walbrook and Diana Wynyard. It’s less starry than the 1944 version, but still worth a viewing. I understand that it’s a safer version insomuch that it follows the plot of the play more closely.

73. Regarding THUMB ONES NOSE, I’ve only been in the States 45 years and that is evidently not long enough to hear bill=nose. I tried an alternative approach and considered bill=one, since there is still a $1 bill, but can’t get the rest of it to work.

74. Mostly straightforward and enjoyable solve, although I must say that I didn’t like 24 ac: a bit too loose for my liking and the “s” for the “t” needs more precision (IMHO).
    Also, I’m still not clear about 8 dn.  I live n America and I don’t get the “bill” bit…
    @73 Dr. WhatOn – I too was trying to parse one as referring to a dollar bill, and kept trying to figure out what “snose” could mean!

75. I wondered about the “American” in 8d too, but I think Cookie has explained it: in at least some reference sources, this usage is described as American slang. As an American, I don’t think I’ve ever heard it, but all that means is that it’s probably old-timey in addition to being American.

    I particularly enjoyed the two hidden-word clues 18a and 25a. I continue to be surprised at how tricky I often find these clues, when the answer is there in plain sight the whole time. I find them very satisfying when the penny drops.

     

76. DrWhatsOn and BlueDot see Benington earlier for what seems to me to be the correct parsing of 8d.

77. Enjoyed this despite the spoiler on yesterday’s blog (tut!) . Thanks Brummie and manehi.

78. Gonzo @77

    To be fair, an entirely accidental spoiler!

79. Thanks to Brummie and manehi.

    Handy enough and enjoyable for that, although no particular favourites.  Why ESCAPEE and not escape? It’s the same with “attendee” for someone who is at a meeting – I think I’ve sung this song before, but I do dislike these passive words masquerading as actors and have a strong impression that they are sub-radar parvenus. Will somebody please give me a, say, Churchillian reference to assuage the discomfort.

    [Surely it’s not possible to “spoil” yesterday’s blog…?  Or perhaps Gonzo@@77 is being a laugh-havee.]

80. I’m skimming over many comments above as I’m still stuck on bits of yesterday’s challenge from Nutmeg. Today being a Brummie (thanks, Brummie!), I was looking for a theme, but couldn’t see one at all – so thanks to Manehi for pointing out the (obvious when you see it)  connection between the edges. While it had to be MIS(s)READ I had no idea who she was/is.  I was held up for my LOI by one of those gotchas that can happen when doing the puzzle on a tablet – I’d accidentally overwritten the initial A in ANTARCTIC with a T and hadn’t noticed, so the crossers for 14A made little sense: it had to be ON something but G-T-D … wot? Eventually the penny dropped. Or was it a clanger ? (FX – Sound of Swanee whistle falling down a deep hole…)

81. Alphalpha @79

    William accidentally posted his comment on this puzzle on yesterday’s blog.

82. It’s probably an age thing but 8d sprang to mind from the O,E and N crossers an d the enumeration. Picture the end of the thumb being placed at the end of the nose with the fingers at right angles pointing upwards. That said, I have never used it or seen it being used. And I still don’t understand the ” in America” bit.
    On the other hand I don’t remember coming across Miss Read until I saw a row of her books when looking for something else within the last 10 years.
    4d is one of those words that may exist but I wish it didn’t. It’s a poor and unnecessary construction. Perfectly fair to use it here though.
    Alphalpha @ 79. I agree with you about escapee though I think you missed an “r” at the end of your preferred option.
    Thanks to Brummie and manehi.

83. Loved this. Started on train to Loughborough from South Wales travelling past flooded Midland terrain.
    Ended here in Dunboyne with a pint of the black stuff.Perect accompaniment to day of corporate role play.thank you brummie and all contributors on this site.

84. Muffin@82: ah…

85. Too late to prevent the spoilage, but note site policy 3 – “Comments added to posts about a specific puzzle should be relevant to the puzzle under discussion.” Not all of us have the time to do a week’s puzzles in order and like to get back to those we have missed, but the comments above have ruined an enjoyment of the preceding day’s Nutmeg.

86. Van W – Hear! Hear! Self-centredness – the curse of the 21st century?!

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