Guardian 28097 / Puck

103 comments on “Guardian 28097 / Puck”

1. Thanks Puck and Eileen

   I had several unparsed entries – 14, 15a, 21 (should have seen that), and 15d. Not keen on the % clues – why not 5/8 and half?

   Favourite was TWELFTH.

2. Thanks Eileen – all good fun and I do love the surfaces which allude so cleverly or obliquely to the answer, like the chicken and the Yes album. I got to 1dn via being misdirected into “Charles” which actually helped me. Not sure that was entirely the plan!

   I read “new year’s eve” as being one of those reverse clues. So a clue “new year’s eve” might have the answer “verse aye” and being defined as you have it. I was less clear on why “issue” is a “question” but I suppose as “an issue for discussion” it works.

   Many thanks Puck – good-humoured and inventive. What more can we ask?

3. [Muffin @2 Thanks for the wine tale at the end of yesterday’s thread btw.]

4. This was mostly straightforward, although there were a fewest the end I’m sure I would never have got if it weren’t for multiple crossers. OUGHT, for example, was “cycling itself”, if you see what I mean.

   Regarding 8,20, there is an alternate spelling here in the US, namely “chaise lounge”. That version is actually considered correct, even though it came about by a mistake; most Americans do not take French, so are unaware of the origin. Actually, many words in English have come about through hearing or transcription errors, but if only it were as simple as that here. This is also the land of horrors such as “vanilla creme” and the very common “bleu cheese”. Choose a language, for goodness’ sake!

5. Enjoyed this. Fairly gentle for a wednesday. Was pleased with myself to pass all except ‘imagoes’, which was then so obvious I was annoyed that I hadn’t seen it. I think the % clues are clever, Muffin, you then have to do some maths!

6. Back in the zone 🙂 Loved PERSIMMON, NEW YEARS EVE and CHLORINATED. And even an indirect HMHB allusion to This Leaden Pall with the Yes album (which sadly wasn’t topographic oceans). Time to walk the hound then … special thanks Eileen for Sri Lanka which was distracting me from the day job

7. Thanks Eileen – and for once I wasn’t as much of a fan as this as you were. I did like the “amusingly allusive surface” for 1a but there were other surfaces like 7d which barely make sense – and I didn’t parse this one. Thanks also for the information on IMAGOES – I didn’t know that either. I did hold myself up by having a tentative NOTATES for 24a which works with the definition but otherwise it was another rapid solve and Pan’s puzzle on Monday is still the most taxing of the week so far for me. Thank you to Puck as well, especially for the Yes reference – that took me back.

8. Muffin – still waiting for a Carpathian cryptic – I’ll try their next quiptic if I spot it.

9. Willow @5 – you know it’s Thursday, right?

   Completed this one fairly swiftly. Not sure CHARLES LAUGHTON was as effective as it should have been. Very much enjoyed DEFINITELY MAYBE and NEW YEARS EVE

10. I forgot to mention that COLTSFOOT is topical – they’ve come into flower within the last week around here.

11. 1d had me re-watching the Sanctuary scene with CL as Hunchback, a favourite. Probably isolated brain syndrome but I sort of scratched and scrambled thru this, not much flow. Not parsing ought is an example (that ‘cycling’ trick is a chestnut, and recent); and had absy no idea how to parse 7,16 though the solution was obvious. Hey ho, one of those days, but filled the grid more or less happily. Thanks Puck and Eileen.

12. Glad I ate vegetarian tonight!

    Nice puzzle.Thanks Puck and Eileen

13. Thank you, Eileen.

    Not so keen on this as I usually am with The Imp.

    The surface of the CIRCUS CLOWNS clue makes little or no sense and I don’t understand what writing is doing.

    The clever IMAGOES is spoiled for me as “the first idealised” does not infer “i”.  For this to work you really need “the first of idealised”.

    “Before real ire is dissipated” seems clunky and very obvious.

    Raised an eyebrow at notch = score but Chambers includes both in one definition so that’s good enough.

    Willow @5:  check the date, my friend.

    Stay safe, everyone.

14. Boffo @9:  Apologies, took a delivery between starting to type and posting!

15. Thank you Puck and Eileen. I really enjoyed that and unlike Muffin particularly liked the percentages. Thank you for the parsing of CIRCUS CLOWNS, IMPASSE and OUGHT, Eileen, which I had not been able to make sense of. (Still learning the language…)

16. Delightful puzzle as ever. Went down the Dance dead-end, guessed Sri Lanka was CL and took ages to see the well hidden TWELFTH despite having all the crossers. Faves were CHLORINATED and PERSIMMON.

    Still fairly whizzed through – has this week been easier or has the newly clean air and (for a lot of us) having nothing to think about but our daily bread (flour) and wine increased brain capacity?

    [Bodycheetah why aren’t the boys national treasures? Papal entourage give us a song indeed]

17. Excellent stuff.  I started with CHARLES LAUGHTON, a very nice clue allowing us to think of Charles Dance before Charleston the dance. And soon after that I got DEFINITELY MAYBE, very neatly and succunctly clued. I had to look it up as I didn’t know the album.

    I admired the ‘amusingly allusive surface’ of CHLORINATED (as noted by Eileen).  CIRCUS CLOWNS took some working out, but I got there, and in the end I needed no help with any of the parsing.

    There was a higher proportion of ‘accessible’ clues than I expect of Puck, but the puzzle was enjoyable throughout.

    Thanks to Puck and Eileen.

18. Puck being Puckish from the word go. Persimmon would have held me up, but I discovered it here in Sardinia (cachi, often  with  a K here in the local language). The best description I can come up with is a tree that produces the most delicious jam already made. I knew the word from a racehorse owned by King Edward the Seventh, but hadn’t ever associated it with a fruit. I have wondered whether he chose the name because he was one of the very few rich enough to have greenhouses heated well enough to produce the fruit in England.

    Thanks to Puck and Eileen

19. I enjoyed this a lot more than yesterday, particularly CHLORINATED, CIRCUS CLOWNS and NEW YEARS EVE. Many thanks to Puck and Eileen.

20. il principe @18 – fascinating that the Sardinian is cachi as the Japanese is Kaki. I first met it in Japan and have pretty much only eaten it there as I always seemed to go in kaki season. It seems likely the name spread elsewhere as it is an Asian fruit, rather than being an imported word to Japan. Bizarrely I find our word “persimmon” is derived from the American indigenous Algonquian language yet I do not associate the NE of America with the fruit at all. California perhaps.

21. I’m not particularly good with numbers. Although even I could manage the 50% in 19A, I needed my maths-wiz partner to explain, slowly and simply, what 62.5% represented. Mind you, once that fact was safely in, I felt stupidly chuffed at getting COLTSFOOT – for although I’ve heard of them I’ve never seen one. Nor a persimmon, for that matter. I must get out more. Ah, no, I mustn’t…
    [Speaking of which: Willow, please don’t worry, you’re far from alone. With all my regular weekly events at a halt I’m also having trouble keeping track of days.]
    In a host of pleasing clues, TEETERED, DEFINITELY MAYBE and IMPASSE stood out, and I’m assuming the doubling of IMP/Puck was deliberate – how could it not be, with such a clever setter? Also, perhaps, a sort of pairing of NOTATED and NOTCHES??? The best of the lot, for me, were TWELFTH and CHARLES LAUGHTON.
    Thank you Eileen for the blog, especially for explaining Sri Lanka and IMAGOES; all praise to Puck.

22. Thanks to Eileen and Puck

    I think “I” in 9a comes from “the first (e.g. Henry I), and “idealised” is part of the def.

23. As a new contributor to this now I have the time (unwillingly!) i too have found this week’s puzzles easier than normal, or perhaps I am just getting better with practice.
    Loi was 9. I only knew the insect definition but as I couldn’t think of anything else I looked the word up and found the correct definition. I didn’t know CL referred to Sri Lanka so it remained not fully parsed.

24. Last on in ‘imagoes’. Another top class puzzle from Puck.

25. I loved this – thank you to Puck and Eileen. I had no complaints.

    What a clever hidden that was at 10a TWELFTH! Unlike Boffo@9 but in synch with Alan B@17, I was delighted to see 1d CHARLES LAUGHTON emerge from the fodder. I also really enjoyed 5d TEETERED.

    [William@13 and 14, I left a note for you on yesterday’s 15² alluding to Tuesday’s blog.]

    [Love your interesting tangent, il principe@18]

    [I agree with bodycheetah and Blue Canary regarding Yes. I was lucky enough to see them live here back in the 70s (will never forget Rick Wakeman’s keyboards), and then Jon Anderson solo in 2013 at Bluesfest. What a band!]

     

26. [Sorry Wellbeck@21, I took so long to type my post while checking the year that I might have seen Jon Anderson perform that I crossed against you, or I would have acknowledged you in my citing of favourites.]

27. After impetuously deciding that 1 ac was some kind of complicated anagram producing Chanticleer, soon realised the error of my ways from the intersecting down clues. After that, fairly straightforward, with the definitions pointing strongly to the answers to several clues. But enjoyed this greatly, wondering if we’d get an Oasis theme after solving 6 down early on..

28. The Zed: thank you for that, I had no idea of it’s Japanese name. The North American connection certainly is a mystery.

    As to the equine connection, Persimmon won seven of his nine starts, including The Derby; the first royal victory in an age. There is a fine bronze of him at the Sandringham Stud and he can be met “in the flesh”; his head is stuffed and displayed at the museum in Newmarket.

29. [For the Yes fans out there: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/yes/1973/festival-hall-brisbane-australia-53df3389.html]

     

30. I should have guessed that Sri Lanka used to be called CeyLon. DNP as a result…

31. Dansar @22
    I wondered about the exact parsing of IMAGOES, and now I think you must be right, ‘idealised’ being part of the definition.

32. Re 13, (William) The earliest references to the game of cricket call those who kept the score as ‘notchers’, due to the way they marked notches on a wooden stick to record the runs as they were scored. Today, it is still a colloquial term sometimes used by scorers themselves.

33. [no need for an apology, JinA: if everyone of us carefully included absolutely everybody else who’d said something similar, these comments would go on for ages! Then again, we all have plenty of time to read them at the mo…]

34. I found this more straight forward than expected for Puck. Did not know CL was Sri Lanka, so that went incompletely parsed. Another here who thought of Charles Dance, qhich was indeed helpful. Lots to like, TWELFTH was very cleverly hidden. Thanks Eileen for the helpful blog, esp re IMAGOES, my LOI, and, following coming here and reading the blog, now my favourite.
    Thanks to Puck for the fun

35. Apologies to those who will disagree with me, but I’m starting to get a little frustrated by this interminable lack of challenge (and when most of us, in theory at least, have more time on our hands!). After completing yesterday’s Chifonie, I came here to find the blog wasn’t up and I couldn’t help wondering whether the blogger (manehi as it turned out) might have been overcome by [today’s] 12dn and fallen asleep!
    So spotting that we’d a Puck today, I really felt cheered. Yet bathos ensued; with all of the deference that Eileen deserves, I could not describe the clues as ingenious. I found this quite dull, and virtually a write-in which, in my opinion, is not typical of this, usually entertaining, compiler.
    It all seems too much of a coincidence. Could (as someone might have suggested here recently, unless I’m dreaming?) this be deliberate policy from the Guardian with the intention of ensnaring newbies? Fair enough – this could well be a good time to whet interest from people who may usually not have the time.
    But surely we can be served an occasional puzzle that is, well ….puzzling?
    I know others may disagree but I find it difficult to remember such a bland period. (I solved a beautiful old Paul – 25709 – last night – and a fun Arachne this morning – 25721. But there’s only so much one wants to use the archive, especially when one’s probably solved most of them before).
    Moan over; I shall now wait in hope, well-soaped fingers crossed, for another Boatman or a Vlad or Screw. A hard Tramp or one of Arachne’s tricksier offerings would be nice. Even seeing Enigmatist’s name would bring joy rather than apprehension!

    Many thanks, both and all.

36. I was confused with Sri Lanka assuming it was LK (ISO letters – CeyLon duh! Could someone please explain 1 across, what has Chlorinated to do with chicken? Great puzzle though – thanks to all.

37. Be careful what you wish for, William F P. Well, I enjoyed this – a good steady solve. Glad to learn an extra meaning for IMAGO; I’m an entomologist so am familiar with the insect usage. I thought every clue was well crafted [except perhaps that all galleries are TATE, every crossword has to have lead to ENNUI and the annoying WITHOUT meaning outside] and, of course, very well elucidated by Eileen. Thanks to both.

38. Thanks for the puzzle, Puck, and a super blog, Eileen, which helped me through a few imparsed impasses.

    Dr Whatson @4  The one that gets me is “soup du jour.”  I can’t bring myself to think of “chaise lounge” as correct.

    Help, someone — what sort of chicken is chlorinated?

    bodycheetah @6 — could you explain HMHB and This Leaden Pall and topographic oceans?

    Haven’t we had the [t]ISSUE clue recently?

    il principe @18  and TheZed@20. Persimmons are available around here (Connecticut) around Christmas.  They are absolutely delicious unless you eat them not quite ripe, in which case your teeth are instantly coated with something dreadful.  I associate them with Italy, because they were most common in our late-lamented local Italian grocery store.

39. Keys @36

    In the US, chicken carcasses are treated with chlorine to kill bacteria. One of the controversial aspects of a post-Brexit trade deal with the US is that we might be forced to import them, despite the process being illegal in Europe at the present.

40. Couldn’t parse CIRCUS CLOWNS or OUGHT. I’m rather enjoying being able to complete in a couple of hours or less (no checking or cheating by doing it online). I then get to read the paper. Thanks to Puck and Eileen.

41. Keys @36 Part of the ongoing discussion over changes to our import rules at the end of this year here in the UK has been whether we relax restrictions on agricultural standards. A standard-bearer of that topic has been the American chlorinated chicken – a chicken which, rather than being kept healthy is “made so” by washing in chlorine and other pathogen-reducing treatments after slaughter. The idea of eating such has caused significant outrage here, particularly because our animal welfare standards and labeling are, for the most part, above that required by the EU (e.g. our pig farming rules).

42. The wild persimmon of the eastern USA is smaller than the commercial Japanese variety (about the size of a large cherry) but tasty though highly variable in flavor from tree to tree.

    I’m hiding from Covid-19 with family in the Dominican Republic. Hope I can get home to Virginia by persimmon and pawpaw (not the tropical papaya) season September or October.

43. Valentine @38 But do they grow in CT? For us to get the word from an indigenous language, you’d think they’d have to be around before commercially-minded Italians started stocking them! My memory of the summers there was that they were warm, but the winters were vicious and I am not sure a kaki tree would survive. I also have fond memories of a local Italian deli (“Romeo and Joe’s” in New Haven) as being the only place a European could buy what he considered decent ham!

    Muffin @39 apologies – we crossed.

44. No problem, TheZed.

    Should we have said “some chicken carcasses”, or is it always done?

45. Thanks Eileen for the as ever helpful blog. Couldn’t see circus clowns although clearly the answer.

    Muffin@39 – it isn’t the issue with bacteria – it is the husbandry prior to slaughter that is the issue.

46. Andy @45

    As I understand it, the chlorine wouldn’t be necessary if the husbandry was good?

47. I agree more with Eileen than others that this was a classy crossword which I enjoyed.  I imagine that the relative ease of the last few days is happenstance rather than some draconian plot to get more readers.  I particularly liked the almost satirical clue to CHLORINATED given the recent Brexit debate.  Btw what happened to Brexit it was all the news at one time now it does not feature.  Favourites were the aforementioned 1a, CIRCUS CLOWNS for the lovely definition of ring jokers and TWELFTH which must be one of the cleverest hidden clued ever.  Very many thanks to Puck and Eileen as ever.

48. William F P @35

    I recognised the tenor of your remarks as having come from your pen many times before – a comment on the near-absence of any real challenge and a plea (implied if not always stated) for the setters and the editor to raise the bar – and I therefore wonder why you don’t take your patronage elsewhere.

    I commented myself on the unusual lightness of this puzzle compared with this setter’s typical output, but I don’t for a moment suppose that this is part of a strategy or plot to dumb down the Guardian’s output. I maintain that the general standard of Guardian daily crosswords has not changed much – except this week, oddly – over the last three years, and they intentionally include lighter and heavier challenges. I get the sense that the range of difficulty levels is greater than in other dailies.

    Have you tried the more challenging puzzles, both themed and plain, that are available in weekend and Sunday papers?

49. Dansar @22 – I’ve only just seen* your comment. Thanks for that – I’m sure you’re right: I wasn’t happy with ‘the first idealised’ in 9ac and was rather surprised that Puck had used it. I didn’t see what was staring me in the face and so I was doing him an injustice. I’ll amend the blog now.

    [* I’ve been out killing three birds with one stone: walked  a couple of miles or so to the surgery and back, requesting a prescription, thus getting my exercise and called for some essential shopping on the way home.]

50. Valentine@38 – in case bodycheetah doesnt reappear.

    HMHB are Half Man Half Biscuit a British rock band with a satirical bent. This Leaden Pall is one of their albums. The title track references Tales from Topographic Oceans an album by the aforementioned (in the clue) band Yes.

    For many the Yes record is the nadir of the prog rock genre with its long (20 mins) tracks excessive Soloing and impenetrable lyrics – for others it’s a work of genius. Discuss. See also Captain Beefheart Trout Mask Replica.

51. TheZed @20 etc. KAKI too here in Southern France. Fruits December time and provides feast for local starlings. Have often thought should try them myself but so far haven’t got round to it!

52. Dan Milton @42 Thank you for the elucidation – all is clear now!

    [Muffin @44 I am not sure – I’d like to think there are some chickens somewhere in America that are not in need of chlorination. And I think you are right @46 that the reason they are “washed” post-slaughter (in the EU you can only use water and air for this) is because of the nature of the husbandry pre-slaughter which means the carcass is considerably more likely to carry bacteria. Another interesting cultural difference – the Japanese store in West Acton (Atari-ya) advertised “salmonella-free eggs” for its local Japanese clientele. I had understood that UK chicken farms were regularly tested and guaranteed salmonella-free but we are still cautioned against undercooked meat or eggs, whereas I have had raw (or nearly so) chicken in Japan and very lightly cooked egg too.]

53. A nice, Puckish puzzle. The Dance led me to Charles, like some others.

    I liked TEETERED.

    Thanks to the reliable setter and blogger.

    [For those who rail against CHLORINATED chicken, it’s the poor animal husbandry that’s the issue. Chlorine-washing is probably a good idea to prevent food poisoning, especially in summer – for those who buy bagged salad leaves, those are also chlorine-washed in the UK, I think. Better to buy free-range chickens that have been properly looked after.]

     

54. PS I missed a lot of the above comments about chlorination while having lunch – anyway, I think there is a consensus.

55. [Alan B@48 – I have to say that I was thinking something similar when I read the post @35. I usually enjoy the parry and thrust of our forum, but overall, I certainly prefer reading about the mostly positive engagements with each day’s puzzles, which I am pleased for the most part characterises the posts here. We are so lucky to have setters who share the fruit of their labours with us.]

56. Robi @53 and others.  We keep chickens here in southern Spain solely for eggs and have not knowingly bought battery chickens since we lived for 3 years in the Amazon area of Brazil over the millennium years. I have always assumed that if one only purchased free range chickens, the danger of bacterial contamination would be reduced to a minimum.  Is that incorrect?

57. [Spanza @56; of course, it also depends on how the chickens are slaughtered. if an abattoir is not well kept, the carcasses could still get infected. However, I think people should always be encouraged to eat free-range chickens, although I realise some people cannot afford them.]

58. Valentine: re your lamented Italian deli, I’m with you all the way. Despite not having set foot in a supermarket for five years, in the last six-months I’ve lost my local fruit and veg shop and the stall in the square where I live, on which I could consider my purchases, including enormous persimmon on the point of structural collapse before I descended the stairs. I pray daily for the demise of Auchan, Carrefour and Conad.

59. I’m not one to complain about easy crosswords, but this week it’s now four in a row (five if we include last Saturday’s non-prize). I started with 1ac (hardly news, I know) which took me about three nanoseconds; then 1dn, where the supposed misdirection of Dance led, however mistakenly, to an obvious filmstar with first name Charles. And so on. SO-SO was just what it said on the tin. “Airline (2,2)” is not a cryptic clue as there was no need to read the wordplay part to get the answer. I must admit I didn’t bother to fully parse 7, 16 once I’d got CL and owns because it was as obvious as several others. I liked IMAGOES but didn’t check the definition as the wordplay was so straightforward. I had a moment when, having solved NOTATED, it looked like 24 was going to be NOTATES; fortunately my knowledge of the origin of cricket scoring came to my rescue; maybe this was my clue of the day.

    I usually find Puck both challenging and enjoyable. This was so fleeting that there was no time to appreciate it before it was over. Where are Bunthorne and Araucaria when we need them?

60. TheZed @23  You’re right, persimmons don’t grow in New England. Pawpaws do, though, surprisingly; I know of at least one very popular pawpaw tree in Holyoke Massachusetts.  You must have crossed with Dan Milton @42, who talks of the wild cherry-sized persimmon of the Appalachians — I’d never heard of that one and now I wonder how it tastes.

    il principe @58My neighborhood was Italian when I moved here 30 years ago, now is barely so.  My beloved grocery store has moved south one suburb, where many of the Italian families from around here have moved.  It’s too far to drive most days now.

61. The Guardian is certainly looking to get more people interested in its puzzles – see blog here … https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/crossword-blog/2020/mar/30/crossword-roundup-fancy-learning-cryptic-crosswords-during-coronavirus-lockdown. My guess is that the community of contributors to this blog is not particularly representative of solvers in general and the demand for challenging crosswords would actually be quite small. And what benefit is it to the Guardian in publishing a crossword that the best part of solvers walk away from disappointed?

    Could solvers not use General Discussion on this website to group together fandoms for particular setters and commission puzzles direct from them?  How many paying (eg) £5 for five crosswords would it take to make it worthwhile for a setter?

62. sheffield hatter @59 GK is an interesting thing.   When faced with the christian name Charles for a film-star I immediately wrote in Laughton, but I am over 70, how many youngsters would know of him.  I played cricket and watched cricket all my life and have been a member of a cricket club for most of that time but I can honestly say I never heard of ‘notches’ for runs or scores.  Maybe tomorrow we will get a Paul or an Enigmatist, but I hope there are no complains that it is too hard!!

63. Van Winkle @61 or anyone who might know, how much is a setter paid for a puzzle?

64. Spanza @ 63

    I believe it’s between £100 & £200 depending on the paper.

65. To JinA: I met the band members on different occasions in the early 70’s. One time, Jon gave me a ride in his Rolls Royce as we were going to the same football game – quite a heady experience. To BlueCanary@50 – for me it was Big Eyed Beans From Venus.

66. Thank you Simon S@ 64 I couldn’t be a setter and at that level of remuneration I’m not sure I would want to be!

67. BlueCanary @50, Trout Mask Replica and This Leaden Pall references in the same post!  Two fine albums.  HMHB have slowly evolved from narky upstarts to something approaching national treasure status.  I saw them most recently at the Liquid Rooms last year and they were still as fun ever.  Nothing from TLP in the setlist last night, but they did foreshadow the current state of the nation when they gave a very rare outing to Keeping Two Chevrons Apart.

68. So many complaints about the difficulty level. I didn’t notice it being significantly lower than normal. I’ve been doing crosswords for 30 years now. I’m still not great at them, but I know the difference between a write-in and a challenge, and this was no write-in for me.

    I used to work in videogames (I still do in my spare time). This place is starting to sound like the worst videogame forums. Kids wanting games to be made harder and harder, and then telling other folk to “Git Gud” (Get good) if they dare suggest that it’s no fun anymore.

    I don’t care how hard these things are. I just want them to be fun. And this one was lots of fun. If it’s not to your liking maybe email the paper to let them know. There’s enough misery around already though, so maybe leave it off here, eh? Might be more considerate. Might spread less misery. We’re all feeling it. We don’t need any more.

69. Thanks BlueCanary @50 for a splendidly lucid explanation. I didn’t find this the write-in that some people here did but I did have 8 across clues after the first pass which is on the high side for me. Boatman’s book has some fairly chewy puzzles for those in need of meatier sustenance

70. bodycheetah @69. Boatman’s First 50 was the last thing to drop onto my doormat before I stopped all online purchases a couple of weeks ago. I’ve only done the first four but it’s been good fun so far.

71. A thousand thanks to Wellbeck, The Zed, Julie in Australia, Valentine, Alan Swale, Dan Milton and PUCK !; you’ve saved me a lot of work. I’ve pasted all of your PERSIMMON comments together and sent them to my students to read for homework.

72. Just joined the blog. What a fascinating revelation of opinions. Despite being a relative novice, I have felt this weeks crosswords to be easier than usual. I’m horrified how many people are unaware of the post brexit free trade deal with America which includes, besides chickens, trumps demands for doing away with the NHS.

73. [Dr Whatson & Scutter we are going to get drummed out of 15² for starting a Beefheart thread but what the hell.

    Yes Clear Spot is a great album – for the Captain almost melodic. When I get a vinyl copy of Trout Mask in the Oxfam shop I describe it as ” either a work of genius totally unlistenable or both. A cocktail of psychedelia swamp blues beat poetry and free jazz”. It always sells and never for less than £70. I’m not allowed to play it in the shop though.

    So glad to hear that HMHB are still going with new material and not just as a tribute band with only the original drummer as so many are these days.]

74. Rather liked this.I usually enjoy Puck and this was no exception notwithstanding some of the comments above.Did like CHLORINATED once I saw it and it made me laugh- although, of course chlorinated chicken is nothing to laugh at. I didn’t know the second meaning of IMAGOES which I had to look up. Mind you it was the only thing I could think of that fitted!
    Blue Canary@50. Trout mask replica is a great album: Tales of topographic oceans is- er- a Yes album!
    Thanks Puck.

75. Enjoyed this crossword a great deal — so many inventive clues — favorites included TEETERED, PERSIMMON, and NEW YEARS EVE. Puck is certainly one of the best. Thanks, Eileen for the blog — never would have figured out the parsing for OUGHT and CIRCUS CLOWNS on my own.

76. Whilst Tales from Topographic Oceans is the ultimate example of self-indulgent prog rock, I think Fragile is a fine album. Recommend Rick Beato’s deconstruction of Roundabout on What makes this song great episode 36, Youtube.

    Enjoyable crossword. Thanks to Eileen and Puck.

77. @The Stanchion at 76 – Rick Beato is great. Only yesterday I was watching his analysis of Jeff Buckley’s Vancouver. Terrific.

     

78. Before the times of metal “woods” in a golfer’s bag, drivers and other such clubs were crafted out of persimmon wood.  Not sure where the trees that produced the wood were located however.

79. Just completed a Puck crossword for the first time ever. Feeling pleased with myself only to find that proper crossword solvers find it too easy, Heigh-ho

80. Hi Petert @79 – and welcome, if this is your first comment.  😉

    Congratulations – nil desperandum! This may not be Puck at his most challenging but no less enjoyable for that – I loved it. [Not sure what makes a ‘proper crossword solver’ – we’re quite a mixed bunch here but generally congenial, I hope.]

    Hope to hear from you again.

81. Thank you Puck and Eileen.

    Petert @79, well done, I did not find it too easy, but probably I am not a proper crossword solver.

    Alan Swale @51, you must try the local kaki fruit, they are delicious when fully ripe, or you could try the ones usually labelled persimmon, they are not astringent when hard …

    … of interest, France seems to have run out of flour, like you have in the UK.

82. Cookie @81 and others: yep in our part of Spain as well.  I wonder why!!

83. SPanza @ 82 and others

    I suspect it’s because (1) folk are digging out long-unused breadmakers (yeast is in short supply too) and (2) forced-to-stay-at-home parents are having to bake cakes etc for forced-to-stay-at-home kids.

84. I invariably enjoy Puck puzzles and did so today.  I do think this was a bit easier than a standard Puck, but not much.  And besides, it’s the surfaces and general hunour which makes him so appealing, not the degree of difficulty.

    IMAGOES, with its extended definition, was brilliant and I thought DEFINITELY MAYBE was clever too.  Helped that I was familiar with the bands in question, and was lucky enough to have seen them both live.

    I also quite like the maths elements in 11 and 19, but I’m curious as to why Puck went with 62.5% in the one case, but not 44% in the other.  Possibly, it’s because the 44% is not exact, in which case a strategically placed “about” would do the trick.  Would people have been OK with 11 reading “having upset a little over 50% of Scotland first”, I wonder.

    Good fun.  Thanks, Puck and Eileen (and Dansar for pointing out the parsing of “the first”).

85. No-one else seeing this as a Chlorinated theme puzzle, with all of those CLs?

    Enjoying the puzzles this week, thanks to both.

86. Hillman @85
    Well spotted!  As well as CHLORINATED (where it starts, as it were) there are Charles Laughton, Chaise Longue and the CL in Circus Clowns.  That may be all, but it might be just enough for us to say it could be intentional.

87. And CL / Sri Lanka. At a stretch, Coltsfoot.

88. Thanks to Puck and Eileen.

    Everyone’s gone home now, so…

    I enjoyed it well enough but bristled at the inclusion of CHARLES LAUGHTON – I am antique enough for general purposes but was quite a small tot when he made his last movie in 1962.  Not a way to seduce a fresh (so younger) audience William F P@35.

    As some seem to be hitting planet grumpy, could I be forgiven for giving a “yah, boo, sucks” to contributors who consistently refer to clues by their numeration, as in “I couldn’t parse 3d, didn’t like the surface of 4a”, rather than their solution – it means the rest of us have to skip off to the crossword/up to the blog to see what is being talked about.  JinA gives us good example by employing both, but that would be too much to ask.

    I particularly liked 6d.

    Sorry, I particularly liked DEFINITELY MAYBE.

89. er, 6d?

90. Alphalpha @ 88 you are absolutely right. I’m tired of going to and fro too!

91. Thanks Eileen and Puck.
    DNP CIRCUS CLOWNS. Had to check IMAGOES, both for the definition and spelling. Had to wiki the album but what else could it be?

92. A very good point, Alph! I am also irritated when some commenters post remarks that clearly show they haven’t bothered to read earlier comments or (rudest of all) not even read the blog!

93. AlanB@48, JulieinA@55 – Though less regularly in last year or two I’ve been contributing to 15² for longer than Julie, and probably Alan too, and I’m surprised, and hurt, by your comments. You must know that my praises here are, very often, effusive and I rarely, if ever, say anything negative about setters. I never make ad hominem comments (unlike Alan’s “why don’t you take your patronage elsewhere”. Hurtful, as well as rude. I note that you didn’t round on Sheffield Hatter who said the same). I’ve been defending negative comments about setters here for years.
    However, from time to time, I do comment on the difficulty, mainly since I worry lest the Guardian crossword editor takes note of feedback here; I think it important he sees all opinions as I would hate a procession of quasiquiptics and, in my view, apart from a Boatman, the last couple of weeks have been unusually, and atypically, straightforward. Sorry, but that’s how I see it. I can’t understand why I should be criticised – I am using this forum in precisely the way it was intended. As for your suggestion re barred grids I’m not one to enjoy having to keep checking obscure vocabulary (I can’t avoid it – even when WP clear, and even if I only do so postsolve); but this may be because my larger dictionaries seem to get heavier as my ageing muscles weaken!
    Finally, and sincerely, all love (in the time of c….)

    [Alan – you’ve posted negative remarks about my comments before; I always have replied politely and you’ve then said, more than once, something like “I showed your comment to a friend and I now see your point”. Thought you may have learnt by now?!]

94. William F P @93

    Responding just for myself, I have re-read my own comment as well as your original one that led to this, and I acknowledge that the question I asked, that you quoted accurately, was indeed provocative.  Because I now see (I was shown, in fact) that it can easily be taken to be offensive I apologise.  It was not meant to be negative, and if you know me at all from my comments generally, whether original ones or those made in response to others, I do not make negative comments, not even negative criticism unless it’s constructive, and certainly not ad hominem remarks.  (I use ‘you’ because I am addressing you – that’s not ad hominem.)

    I meant what I said by the ‘tenor’ of your remarks, and I was in a sense responding to a great many of your comments on puzzles that test you only for as long as your coffee cools to a drinkable temperature.  I am used to those comments, and I pleasantly regard them as being a part of you, but I’m sure they have the effect on some people of appearing to put them on a lower rung of the ladder and you above even your fellow-experts.  More to the point, it appears that you are not satisfied with at least half of the Guardian’s output – hence the provocatively worded suggestion.  It is easier for you, or me or anyone, to move to another source than for the Guardian to modify its range.

    I mean no ill-will, and in these times I wish you and everyone here the best of health.

    [I’m afraid I don’t understand what you said in your bracketed comment – nor do I recognise anything like that example of what I have supposedly said (or done) in the past.]

95. Alan – “at least half”? You’ve clearly read very few of my comments since at least 99% (conservatively) have been laudatory. I just checked out some at random (from 2014, both Guardian and Independent) and every single one was glowing praise. Indeed, it’s only comparatively recently that I’ve chosen to ever voice disagreement. And I still firmly believe that this last week or two have been, for me, atypically disappointing. It seems most unfair that you don’t object to those who welcome unchallenging crosswords day after day but if some dare to say that they find them otherwise then they are clearly wrong to do so. Do you seriously believe that, unless a view is fulsome it is unacceptable? Surely, that undermines the value of this site? In any case, as I’ve explained today – and before – my view was shared to redress the balance lest the crossword editor should pop by and conclude that his newspaper readers like them easy. And where do you suggest I go? I happen to have thoroughly enjoyed the majority of the Guardian puzzles of the last fifty years – and I enjoy the Times less (generally) but most of the recent non-Mondays here (I happened to think Matilda’s recent debut was rather good for a Monday) were only of a quiptic level of puzzlement. And, in my opinion, that is neither typical nor good. And I still can’t see why my opinion deserves hurtful criticism.
    I too wish no ill-will. As for health, I’m hoping today’s Tramp
    will cheer and, with such optimism in my heart, I’m saving it to savour! All the best…..

96. …oh! and had you not made such a clearly ad hominem remark as “why don’t you take your patronage elsewhere” I probably wouldn’t have replied – and certainly wouldn’t have felt so rudely offended, and hurt.

97. William F P @96

    Whatever I said about comments you have made (or what I called the ‘tenor’ of your comments) was of course only from my memory of them.  Over time (a few years possibly) I gained the strong impression that in many of your comments, far from praising a crossword you would call it out as being much too easy for you – which of course is not a negative comment (you are simply relating your experience), but not an adulatory one either.

    At this point, I can only accept what you say about your own contributions over quite a long period of time.  My impressions, however strong they might be, do not trump what you know about what you yourself have written, and if I ever refer to one of your comments on here again I will be mindful of the points you have made here and now and make an honest effort not to cause offence, whether I am in agreement with you or otherwise.

    I too prefer challenging crosswords, but I also don’t expect to get them every day.

    All the very best, stay at home, … …

    Alan

98. WFP
    Sorry, I’m sure I typed @95, not @96.  It was your prior (longer) post I was replying to.
    AB

99. William F P and Alan B

    You both know that, as a blogger, I receive emails of comments on my blog. This correspondence of yours has strayed way beyond comments on this day’s puzzle and so I ask you not to clog my inbox further and to continue your dialogue further, if necessary, in General Discussion.

    I hope you’re both staying well. Take care,

     

100. It’s my birthday today and, as I see it now, I wouldn’t mind making it to 100.

     And so I did ……  🙂

101. Congratulations, Sil – Many Happy Returns!! 😉

102. Didn\’t like some of these clues. What is \’writing\’ doing in 7/16 down? 19a is poor. The capital letter of Dance is wrong in 1d. I know now in crosswords \’cycling\’ means moving the first letter to the end but don\’t see why that\’s cycling.

103. Is anybody still here?

     As someone who has lived 35 years in Sri Lanka, I had never heard of the abbreviation CL…

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