Guardian 28,233 / Nutmeg

80 comments on “Guardian 28,233 / Nutmeg”

1. Full marks for BRIE

   Thanks all

2. Got through Nutmeg’s usual smooth surfaces quite quickly and pleasingly, but was left with 23d to chew over when I had to go to my local Co-op to get some milk for my morning cup of coffee. Past the spices, and there in front of me was my eureka moment as I hovered near the soft cheeses. Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen.

3. Thanks NUtmeg and Eileen

   Lots of great misdirection. I took ages to see my last two – PEEVE and BRIE. Lots of standout clues. Favourites for me were RUSTLED UP, SADHU, and CROWD-PLEASER.

4. THE STAND is an anagram of THAT ENDS – and TAKE is another word for CONDUCT?

5. I believe 1d works as:
   TAKE (to conduct, as in may I conduct you to your table) + (THAT ENDS)* (*violently)
   Great puzzle! Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen.

6. I enjoyed this morning’s offering. Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen.

   I set off at a canter, but then slowed down. Loved 23 once the penny dropped, but I’m not sure that RADIOLOGY is a cancer therapy.

   The HMHB fans will have noted references to several of their crowd pleasers. The singer out of Slipknot is from Des Moines, as are most of his bandmates. There’s also a beggar accepting alms and RESTLESS legs.

7. Sorry, Eileen, I didn’t see the wordplay for 1d either.

8. That’s brief copmus.

   Also one of only a few clues that I appreciated today.

9. Hi Eileen, take = conduct + (that ends)*

10. 1d: Take = to conduct, (that ends)* indicated by violently = the stand. I assume

11. Thanks Eileen, I found a few of these quite tricky having first thought it would be straightforward. Can’t help with 1D beyond “The stand” = “that ends”* (violently). I liked 7D for the surface, as well as the ones you mentioned, and 20D. The spoonerism took me ages as I overthought it and was trying to use Dr as an anagram indicator on “Spooners” until the D became clear. Does crow really mean triumph or is it what you do after you triumph? I suppose a triumphant/triumphal? entrance could involve plenty of crowing though. Anyway plenty for me to enjoy so thanks Nutmeg.

12. Sorry. My slow typing meant I crossed with others.

13. Many thanks, all, for help with  1dn – I knew it wouldn’t take long!

14. That was a nice solve today! FOI 4a quickly followed by a snortle for 8a and a simply lovely clue (short definition, long answer) for 24a!

    I’m sure that the last time I heard PEREGRINATIONS it was either on a) Monty Python or b) The Secret Policeman’s Ball. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me will put me right?

    Otherwise ta muchly Nutmeg and Eileen!

15. Thanks everyone above who explained and gave examples for take = conduct, I hadn’t been able to think of one.

16. A Nutmeg puzzle that didn’t take ages! My take on 1d is exactly as others have parsed. I didn’t know that N=knight in chess as I don’t play. In fact I had trouble with INSURRECT as I couldn’t spell PEREGRINATIONS correctly at first. 25ac took a while as did 20d but I saw BRIE quite quickly.
    An enjoyable puzzle, much more so than yesterday.
    Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen

17. I came here to be enlightened about 1D as I too was confused by it.  So thanks Janw @4 and Megan@5. Turns out to have been a very clever clue.

18. Like Penfold @6, I started well but then got slowed down. Cobro and I had to work together to finish off the last few words. LOI was NAPERY.

    Favourites were BRIE and RADIOLOGY.

    Thanks to Eileen and Nutmeg!

19. Thank you Eileen , you’ve cleared up a few things for me there.

     

    STAND – if you stand up to a bully (for instance) , you are prepared to fight him if necessary? And it is where a witness stands when giving evidence in court.

     

    PEEVE is the one that still bothers me.   How does “surface” render an “E” please? Sur/Over face = last letter of face??

     

20. [Knew there’d be others, quicker 🙂 ]

    Yes, a fun hour’s potter from Spice Lady. Thought hmmm about HG, must be a jewel area, and on searching it all came back.. big heist, drilling through etc, but the place name hadn’t stuck. Lots of fun bits, the almost archaic wigged for told off, briefly bunged in horse at
    15ac (is that the right battle..?), liked the resonant Hindu, and the peevish bug. Nice, ta Nutmeg and Eileen.

21. MadMax @19 – my apologies: I made an error in the blog (I included the e – last letter of surfacE – within the brackets) – I’ll correct it now.

22. Penfold @6 that’s some first rate HMHB spotting but surely this RESTLESS legs video takes the biscuit? Possibly the greatest fan video of all time

    Loved BRIE and the pioneering tsar

    Alan Partridge would surely have crowned Neil the KING OF DIAMONDS

    Cheers all

23. Maybe my mind was distracted by other thoughts, but I could not focus on this puzzle. Was tempted to pass on it.

    Did not parse TAKE THE STAND, EARWIGGED

    Liked INSURGENT, PENUMBRAL.

    Thanks to Eileen and Nutmeg.

24. Love a bit of Nutmeg in the morning. TR and BL corners proved a little tricky (11a, 6d; 25a, 23d were somewhat elusive). Kicked myself as 23d is a lovely little clue. New word at 24ac.

    21ac – I’m never a fan of Spooner clues. I know some folks like them, but I find them quite torturous.

25. A pleasant solve today with only a couple of minor quibblets. I don’t see how crow is synonymous with triumph and an arrow is fired not shot. The target is shot. Still it’s pretty standard usage and the surface wouldn’t have worked as well with fired. Enjoyed 23d a lot when the penny dropped.

26. A very pleasant puzzle.  The pioneering tsar was a great anagram at 24a, and I thought 4a ONE’S BEST was very neat.

    Gazzh @11: I wondered about CROW = triumph in 9d, but Chambers includes, for triumph, “to exult”, and the SOED includes “to be elated at another’s defeat”, and gives the example of “France, triumph in thy glorious prophetess” from Henry VI Part I.

    Many thanks Nutmeg and Eileen.

27. Desmodeus @25. You’ll have to take that up with Henry Wadsworth Longfellow: “I shot an arrow into the air, it came to earth I knew not where”

28. Like ccmack  @24, I’m not a fan of Spooner clues, and this was a dnf for me in consequence. It’s that combination of cryptic definition and (very often) homophone which requires the solver to be exactly on the setter’s wavelength, which I clearly wasn’t. Started well, and made good progress, but was held up a long time by TEMERITY (couldn’t see all the same=YET), BOOKSTALL (not sure unlikely=TALL, despite the phrase tall story seeming to imply that; it’s like the old argument about London=RED because a red bus is a London bus) and RESTLESS (struggled initially with the definition and answer seemingly being different parts of speech). Got all those in the end, and enjoyed some very satisfying pdms along the way.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen.

29. Desmodeus@25 and sheffield hatter@27

    Yes, I think an arrow can be shot or fired.

    “Shoot that poison arrow to my heart”
    Simple as ABC.

30. Agree with penfold that radiology isn’t cancer therapy. But maybe I’m just sour because I found this quite hard going! A few that I appreciate more now that I see how they work, though!

31. So witty as ever from Nutmeg. Like Eileen, I scratched my head about 1d. Loved BRIE, CROWD-PLEASER and PEEVE in particular. Many thanks to N & E.

32. I’m another who started quickly, aided by quick solves of the two long across clues. But at 4d, I got hooked onto the unopened case being an ‘olster, cos of the guns. That did 10a and 12a no good at all. I needed much convincing to change my mind.

33. Thanks, Eileen. Is there also a double meaning in 1a? Takes the stand = prepares to conduct.

34. I emit a gleeful “yeah!” whenever I log on and see Nutmeg’s name above the grid, knowing my serotonin levels are about to be boosted. (Or is it endorphins? I can never remember.) You can always rely on her for smoothly polished clues with vivid imagery. Too many highlights to list them all, but I was especially fond of NAPERY, even though I’d never heard of the word, and BRIE is brilliantly deceptive.

    Thanks for the link, bodycheetah @22. ‘Restless Legs’ appropriately mentions Auntie Meg… I wonder if Nutmeg is actually an auntie?

35. Thanks to Eileen for several explanations which I needed in a couple of clues to fully parse my solutions. I enjoyed this solve. I agree that PEREGRINATIONS at 24a is a lovely word. I am another solver who liked 23d BRIE. Much appreciated, Nutmeg and Eileen.

36. Yes, usual high quality setting from Nutmeg.

    I liked most of the clues, particularly RESTLESS, PEEVE and PENUMBRAL (LOI).

    I guess Nutmeg was just using the Chambers definition of RADIOLOGY, viz: ‘The study of radioactivity and radiation or their application to medicine, eg as X-rays, or as treatment for certain diseases.’

    Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen.

37. Like sheffield hatter @28, I didn’t care for the spoonerism, maybe because I also missed it. I do think those clues work better if both phrases are likely to be heard in ordinary conversation, and ‘sold core’ doesn’t seem to qualify. I don’t want to be overly critical, though, because I really did enjoy the puzzle otherwise. Loved all the clues mentioned above, as well as PENUMBRAL, where the significance of the mounting energy took a long time to see. Thanks to Nutmeg and to Eileen for explaining what Hatton Garden was doing in 8a.

38. Rather late to the party today but did want to record my appreciation of yet another Nutmeg gem.  Very precise clueing, on the whole, in my book.  I recognise the quibbles/lets raised by others but none seemed particularly outrageous or prevented solution.  LOI was PEEVE: had it been a Paul, I’d have looked for the toilet reference earlier.  And that only landed when I solved NAPERY – a dnk like 2Scotcheggs just above – but solvable from the wordplay.  And, yes, a lovely word and one of several Nutmeg has incorporated (I also enjoyed both PENUMBRAL, which I only vaguely recalled hearing before, and PEREGRINATIONS.)  I agree with most of those highlighted by others as worthy of praise: BRIE, INSURGENT and SADHU were favourites along with the, as yet unmentioned, TOPIC and MAYOR

    Many thanks Nutmeg and Eileen whose run of good luck just continues…

39. Oodles of ticks from me for the flowing, concise and evocative surfaces.
    Many thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen

40. DaveinNCarolina @37

    You have put your finger on what can make a Spooner clue satisfactory, but too frequently doesn’t!

41. Lots of good stuff here but, like others, I had issues – with “issuer” for example (“apparently takes action” = “is suer” doesn’t work for me because you would not say it. Would you say someone who plays football “is footballer”?) and especially with “radiology”. Pace Robi @36 I think Nutmeg has misunderstood the definition – radiology is the study of X rays etc and their application e.g. to treatment. Read the definition carefully – it says “the study of radiation and its application to treatment of for certain diseases” – the final clause is not a stand-alone definition of radiology but  part of the area of study. That would be like cluing “delivering the post” and expecting the answer to be “philately”. Radiology is not the treatment, radiotherapy is.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen. Back to the Genius which seems to be another set to try to reduce the use of word-finders!

42. shatter @28 a “tall tale” is hard to believe because it’s “tall” which Chambers (sorry) defines as “Hardly to be believed”. So I think it’s different to the red bus analogy?

43. Eileen @21

    Never fear , I was very pleased to see your solution cos I am learning the modern techniques from more or less scratch.

    I posted after breakfast for the dog and myself,  having started typing beforehand so I never saw the other (correct) explanation, until it was too late.

     

    My double meaning was not quite there i.e. “Take the stand” and “Take a stand” , but takes less imagination than some clues on here :O)

    Thank you for publishing your logic, it is invaluable to me.

44. Delightful puzzle as usual from Nutmeg.  Thanks for the explanations, Eileen, as well as for the 1d ones from posters.  I liked RUSTLE UP because it’s a phrase I don’t use but wish I did.

    I never remember that DUP is a party.

    I’m always astonished when UK solvers are expected to know US state capitals.  We have to learn them in some grade or other and then promptly forget them.  I mostly know the ones of states near me.

    Happy Labor Day to all those who labor or don’t.

     

45. Some very enjoyable clues here. Putting together PENUMBRAL was fun, PEREGRINATIONS was a great anagram, the penny drop on TAKE THE STAND – with just the K in place – was lovely (and very helpful for other answers). I had SADHU, DES MOINES and BRIE early, and enjoyed how cleverly put together the clues were. Both meanings of EARWIGGED were very unfamiliar, but must have lurked somewhere in my brain, as I saw it when all the crossers were in. I wasn’t keen on NAPERY (what?) or the Spoonerism – like others, I inwardly groan when I see them, and the Dr seemed to me to serve no purpose other than to make me wonder if it really was a Spoonerism I was after. Thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen.

46. TassieTime @45

    I wondered if Dr and Spooner went together and decided not. Herpes is something a Dr. might diagnose?

    That left me hoping how Spooner fitted in, because I did not think of Sore Cold until Eileen came to the rescue.

47. A more easier than the average Nutmeg, but you won’t hear any complaints from me – we all need an occasional ego boost. I particularly liked the frivolity of MAYOR and COLD SORE today – maybe I’m just in that sort of mood.

48. That left me hoping 15^2 would show how Spooner fitted in   (whoops, typo)

49. Well done Munromad@16 and TassieTim@45 for snaffling the brie early on, but I think that you may have enjoyed it even more if you had allowed it to ripen a little longer.

    bodycheetah@22 I meant to say that the Eraserhead Restless Legs video is a cracker, so thanks I’d forgotten it existed.

50. bodycheetah @42. Thanks for checking Chambers. But the entry does say “hardly to be believed (as in tall tale)”. Detatched from its noun (as it is in this clue), is it fair? Perhaps it is. (I wrote in #28 that I was “not sure”!)

51. Just couldn’t solve PENUMBRAL or TEMERITY so didn’t quite finish it, but no quibbles with any of the clues. Lots of nice surfaces, and unlike some others I do like the occasional Spoonerism. Seems to me it’s part of the mix, and all is fair in love, war and crosswords.

52. I think maybe Dave in NC @37 and muffin @40 are perhaps too demanding of a Spooner clue, that it works “better if both phrases are likely to be heard in ordinary conversation”. Wasn’t the original, or the one that is best known from real life, “the Lord is a shoving leopard”? Two regular words, certainly, but hardly a phrase from everyday conversation! My objection to this type of clue is that I find it hard to solve…

53. sheffield hatter @52

    …but a Spooner clue can be very funny if it does work both ways round. I would like to give an example, but none springs to mind at the moment

54. Strangely, I found BRIE and TAKE THE STAND the easiest clues today but struggled until I came back this afternoon. My favourite was CROWD PLEASER and NAPERY was new, although gettable from the clue. Funnily enough, I was chatting about the TEMERITY of the Hatton Garden burglary with some ex-cop colleagues last night, as we were imbibing just around the corner in Chancery Lane. Foiled by one very silly mistake. Ta Eileen & Nutmeg for a beautiful puzzle.

55. … and I’ve just noticed that ‘The Hatton Garden Job’ is on Film4 tonight. Curiouser and curiouser …

56. Thanks Nutmeg for a crossword that had smooth surfaces and plenty of wit. SADHU, OLD STAGER, and PEREGRINATIONS were new to me but all solvable from the wordplay — I love when that happens. Favourites included TEMERITY, PENUMBRAL, CROWD PLEASER, and the simply brilliant BRIE. Thanks Eileen for the blog.

57. I didn’t know NAPERY was archaic. As I’m not Scottish, I must be getting old!

    As a bow is not a firearm, I should have thought “shoot” more appropriate than “fire”.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and Eileen.

58. Eileen @55 spooky 🙂

59. Thanks to the estimable ladies both.

    I always enjoy a spud goonerism. There’s the chap whose prayers were answered and inherited enough money to purchase a kitchen appliance. He was a dosh wisher. And of course I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

    But wasn’t the original Spooner guilty of proposing a toast to the “Dear old Queen”?

60. Thanks Nutmeg and Eileen

    From Chambers

    bow?shot noun
    The distance to which an arrow can be shot from a bow

61. I really like Spoonerisms and don’t think that both phrases involved need to be in common use.  I just thought of this one.

    Spooner’s cooked fish for obnoxious child. (7,4),

    which I hope works – it amused me anyway.

     

62. Pentman@61 – like it

63. Lovely crossword, close but no cigar, but all answers parsed which in itself is an achievement.
    Thanks for the hints.

64. HoofIt@63 Lions will maul.

65. For “tall” I thought of “tall order”, as in a task (i.e. order), the achievement of which may be difficult or unlikely (i.e. tall, akin to a wall, high-jump bar, or other obstacle challenging to get over).

    The purist in me would concur, -ology should mean “study of”, and  -therapy would apply to treatment.  But the slippery slope of common usage apparently disagrees, as it seems “radiology” can apply to diagnosis/treatment, not just study thereof… see:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiology

    https://www.royalfree.nhs.uk/services/services-a-z/radiology/

    https://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=article-your-radiologist

    And it can apply specifically to cancer as in “interventional radiology”:

    https://www.cancercenter.com/treatment-options/interventional-oncology/interventional-radiology

    https://www.medstarhealth.org/mhs/our-services/interventional-radiology/services/interventional-radiology-cancer/

    https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/diagnosis-treatment/cancer-treatments/interventional-radiology

    Still, a “?” might’ve been warranted given the loose terminology, and because it’s “by example” rather than a strict definition?

    At 17A I completely missed “undisturbed”=”still” so parsed differently, taking the definition/wordplay as slightly overlapped and “land undisturbed” as a ref to an original, undisturbed (by humans) geology or soil structure, an example being “till” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till).  I read “taking” as a charade/concatenation indicator rather than envelope, with “spades back”=”back-end of spades” providing the “s”.  Granted, a rather “tall” interpretation of the clue… but it got me there in the end!  :^)

    Tip of the hat to our setter for a very nice puzzle, and to our blogger (and commenters) for elucidating it all.

66. OddOtter @65

    Please note that comments containing three or more links are put in the moderation queue in case they are spam. If I am not around at the time the comment is posted then there will be a delay in it appearing, which could be several hours or even overnight if posted mid/late evening.

67. Gaufrid @68, thanks for the heads up.  My posts are often too long (“tall”?) anyway… I’ll aim for greater terseness (oxymoronically).

    TheZed @41, had meant to add I saw “is suer” as shorthand… e.g. if taking notes in court, participants might be labelled as “is plaintiff”, “is defendant”, or “is suer”.  Might also apply if Tweeting or text-messaging, where char counts matter, and pesky things like articles “get in way”.

68. OddOtter @67, I was perfectly happy with “is suer” too.  Crossword clues are frequently written in newspaper-headline-style language rather than complete sentences (eg “Fixed result condemned by party”, 18a), and in that context you would indeed say that someone who plays football “is footballer” – say “Mystery donor is footballer, sources claim”.

    Valentine @44: the few US state capitals I know are mainly because they have been in songs (“I met her accidentally in St Paul, Minnesota” for example).  But I suspect a lot of UK solvers will know DES MOINES from the writings of Bill Bryson (“I come from Des Moines.  Somebody had to.”)

69. Lord Jim @68

    Indeed. I remember him getting back fron his trip around the US to Des Moines, finding himself behind a car being driven so eccentrically that he knew that the driver must be his mother!

70. …who, btw, made every meal from leftovers…

71. Lord Jim @68

    “But I suspect a lot of UK solvers will know DES MOINES  from the writings of Bill Bryson …”  –  yes, that certainly made my job easier this morning.

     

72. This is the first time that I have done the crossword online as I am on holiday and nowhere near a newsagent. It’s quite a neat system but I still prefer pen and paper. I recommend the book “Mr Penumbra’s 24-hour Bookstore” by Robin Sloan. If I had not read it I would never have come up with PENUMBRAL.

73. Hi Penfold @64, sorry, not with you??

74. HoofIt@73 Much of today’s debate was about Spoonerisms and I noticed that you appear to be a fan of Millwall, The Lions.
    Lions will maul – Millwall.

75. Surprised that those that claim musical insight have failed so far to mention that DES MOINES is the city closest to Map Ref 41 Degrees N 93 Degrees W as celebrated famously by Wire here.

76. Good puzzle, thanks Nutmeg and Eileen.
    You may be able to ‘fire’ an arrow now, but originally that word only applied to weapons with gunpowder.
    OED says that the ‘tall’ in ‘tall order’ means ‘large’, one hard to satisfy (cf the horrendous ‘big ask’).
    It gives examples for the ‘exaggerated, highly coloured’ meaning which show the word used as a separate adjective.

77. Thanks for add’l nuance, Gonzo @76.  Online Chambers & Lexico stress “large, difficult”… a “tall story” being difficult to believe, a “tall order” difficult to achieve; seems a shared derivation, as implied at https://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-tal2.htm.  But I concur, “tall/unlikely story” is a better example of the direct synonymy we both agree is there (and which is clarified at https://thesaurus.plus/related/tall/unlikely).

78. Radiology departments sometimes have radiotherapy units which do treatment but radiology itself refers to diagnosis of diseases using xray, CT, MRI etc and not to treatment. Other new words in the horizon include theranostics etc. Most radiology departments are diagnostic radiology basically. Sometimes the therapy can be image guided but the people who do that are more in oncology or interventional radiology (which is usually a separate department). Cancer therapy for radiology is like sticking postage stamps for philately. There is a vague connection but very vague.

79. Really good puzzle – CROWD PLEASER especially good.

80. Don’t like ‘ear’ meaning ‘appreciation.’  In my book, having a good ear for music doesn’t mean the same as appreciating music. It means having a musical talent, not just liking music.

    And nay, lass, there’s nowt outdated about ‘nay’ up north.

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