A tribute to a late cruciverbalist author in today’s Guardian.
COLIN DEXTER, the creator of Inspector MORSE and his sidekick LEWIS, would have been 90 today, so Pasquale has taken the opportunity to create a puzzle with these four word in the solution. There may be other references to him or to his creations, but I don’t know enough about his work to confirm that.
This puzzle had some very unusual words in it, with COLIN and GODOWN being new words to me.
Ely is now in Cambridgeshire, rather than East Anglia, which is a strange error for someone of the Don’s stature to make (and of course, it was not a mistake on his part, but on mine – I was going to remove the mistake, but instead I am going to leave it here as a symbol of my incompetence and a reminder to always check my facts). I also thought that the presidential candidate in 8dn was a bit obscure, but that may just be my own ignorance coming to the fore.
Overall, a gallant endeavour from our hallowed setter.
| ACROSS | ||
| 9 | REED ORGAN | Troublesome person with stick always set about music maker (4,5) |
| <= (NAG (“troublesome person”) with ROD (“stick”) + E’ER (“always”)) set about | ||
| 10 | MORSE | Inventor showing regret when putting off engineers (5) |
| (re)MORSE (“regret” putting off RE (Royal Engineers) | ||
| 11 | GLUCOSE | Something sweet to stick around lettuce (7) |
| GLUE (“to stick”) around COS (“lettuce”) | ||
| 12 | INANELY | Without thinking, building home next to an East Anglian city (7) |
| IN (“home”) + AN + ELY (“East Anglian city”) | ||
| 13 | COLIN | Quail a bit when crossing lake (5) |
| COIN (“a bit”) when crossing L (lake)
Colin is another word for the American quail. |
||
| 14 | VEGETATED | Understand an old rocker with very little energy at first did nothing (9) |
| GET (“understand”) + A TED (“an old rocker”) with V (very) + [little] E(nergy) at first | ||
| 16 | MICHAELMAS DAISY | Yes, mama is upset with a child stupidly making bloomer (10,5) |
| *(yes mama is a child) [anag:upset] | ||
| 19 | CURETTAGE | Surgery as answer to disease that in extremis takes time (9) |
| CURE (“answer to disease”) + T(ha)T [in extremis] takes AGE (“time”)
Curettage is an operation which involves the scooping out of something, and, alongside dilation is the C in D&C. |
||
| 21 | DEFOE | Writer offering brill Old English (5) |
| DEF (“brill”) + O (old) E (English) | ||
| 22 | MINIVAN | Someone terrible following game around in vehicle (7) |
| IVAN (“someone terrible”) following <=NIM (“game”)
Nim is a game of strategy in which players take turns removing items from a pile or array, with the ultimate aim being to leave the last item or take the last item, depending on the variant being played. |
||
| 23 | SIXTIES | Number of fashion items in Mary Quant’s era (7) |
| SIX (“number”) + TIES (“fashion items”) | ||
| 24 | LEWIS | Part of island in Caribbean captured by the French (5) |
| WI (West Indies, so “Caribbean”) captured by LES (“the” in “French”)
Lewis is part of the Hebridean island of Lewis and Harris. |
||
| 25 | SCAVENGER | First to collect rags, even when chucked? (9) |
| *(c rags even) where C is [first to] C(ollect), and &lit. | ||
| DOWN | ||
| 1 | TRAGICOMIC | Like a sort of play that could make critic go mad almost (10) |
| *(critic go ma) [anag:that could make] where MA is [almost] MA(d)) | ||
| 2 | REPUBLIC | Country inn with memorial outside it (8) |
| PUB (“inn”) with RELIC (“memorial”) outside it | ||
| 3 | GODOWN | Spiritual advice to Moses in warehouse (6) |
| GO DOWN (“spiritual advice to Moses”)
A godown is a warehouse in Asia, especially India. |
||
| 4 | OGLE | Heading north over line, I stare (4) |
| [heading north] <=EGO (“I”) over L (line) | ||
| 5 | INDISGRACE | Where you’d presumably find hellish types with old cricketer under a shadow (2,8) |
| IN DIS (“where you’d presumably find hellish types”) + (W. G.) GRACE (“old cricketer”) | ||
| 6 | IMPACTED | Affected little devil wasn’t sincere (8) |
| IMP (“little devil”) + ACTED (“wasn’t sincere”) | ||
| 7 | ARDENT | Burning paintings maybe outside private room (6) |
| ART (“paintings maybe”) outside DEN (“private room”) | ||
| 8 | DEWY | Presidential candidate once sounded a bit wet (4) |
| Homophone of [sounded] (Thomas E) DEWEY (“presidential candidate” who lost to FDR in 1944) | ||
| 14 | VILLAINESS | Lass in evil misbehaving? (10) |
| *(lass in evil) [anag:misbehaving], and &lit. | ||
| 15 | DRY MEASURE | Plea from someone wet and helpless with a certain peck? (3,7) |
| DRY ME (“plea from someone wet and helpless”) with A SURE (“certain”) | ||
| 17 | ACTIVISM | Penultimate part of Shakespearean play is beginning to move into vigorous campaigning (8) |
| ACT IV (“penultimate part of Shakespearean play”) + IS + [beginning to] M(ove) | ||
| 18 | INFRINGE | Break with trendy element of festival entertainment (8) |
| IN (“trendy”) + FRINGE (“element of festival entertainment”) | ||
| 20 | RENOWN | Celebrity children, not one of them accepting the present (6) |
| (child)REN (not CHILD (“one of them”)) accepting NOW (“the present”) | ||
| 21 | DEXTER | It’s right to check when there’s sign of something wrong inside (6) |
| DETER (“to check”) when there’s X (“sign of something wrong”) inside | ||
| 22 | MALL | Start to make everybody walk (4) |
| [start to] M(ake) + ALL (“everybody”) | ||
| 23 | SNAP | Biscuit containers the wrong way up (4) |
| <=PANS (“containers”, the wrong way up) | ||
No chance of parsing 13a, but what else could it be ?
According to at least some definitions (e.g. the first one quoted in Wikipedia) Cambridgeshire is in East Anglia. In any case the Isle of Ely wasn’t always in Cambridgeshire (or Huntingdonshire).
I missed the theme completely but found this fairly straightforward by Pasquale standards, and as usual learned a couple of new usages.
I needed a lot of help from google for the GK clues/solutions. And I only saw the theme after I completed the puzzle – Colin Dexter, Morse, Lewis – but at least, for once, I saw the theme!
Favourites: DISGRACE, INFRINGE, CURETTAGE, ACTIVISM.
New for me today: DEXTER = on or towards the right-hand side; Thomas E. Dewey (thanks, Google); DEF = excellent; COLIN = American quail or bobwhite; REED ORGAN; Go Down Moses” is a spiritual phrase that describes events in the Old Testament of the Bible; LEWIS = the northern part of the island of Lewis and Harris in the Outer Hebrides.
Did not parse 9A REED ORGAN, MINIVAN.
Ely is now in Cambridgeshire, rather than East Anglia, which is a strange error for someone of the Don’s stature to make.
I googled East Anglian cities, and google was fine with Ely (and Cambridge) being classed as East Anglia.
I also thought that the presidential candidate in 8dn was a bit obscure, but that may just be my own ignorance coming to the fore.
I agree with this ^
Apologies for my lack of English geography knowledge. Humble pie to be eaten for lunch.
I put ….ely in straight away and left the rest for later. When I twigged the theme a few clues down the page I looked back and thought we were going to get the cast of the series as well.
Nice to see a Pasquale – it’s been a few weeks. Pretty tough on the word play but eminently fair in the definitions, which actually made it a speedy solve for me (although I confess to two uses of the ‘Check’ button, on GODOWN and DEFOE).
MORSE was my FOI, which raised an eyebrow, given Pasquale’s well-known crossword connections. Made it easier to get DEXTER and COLIN, although LEWIS eluded me for some time, given I was sure it would be there. Cambridgeshire is in East Anglia as far as I’m concerned, given the number of people who think my part of Herefordshire is in Wales.
Loonapick @4
Google might be wrong, for all I know. I had no idea of any East Anglian cities – that is why I had to do a search with google in order to solve that clue.
Brain like treacle today, first pass through the acrosses with only glucose and the daisy. It slowly unfolded, with a bit of check button, so not my best form. Had fa idea about a few bits…Anthony Quayle, yes, Colin the US Quail no; and nim the game…wot? Didn’t get the minitheme, nwst that Morse was a Mrs ginf fave and that I still watch eps of Endeavour (yes, sad..I know). Looking back, some neat tricks, eg def/brill and go down Moses. Thanks P&L.
Michelle
You are right – my mistake was in thinking that East Anglia is a county, but it is a group of counties, including Cambridgeshire, so the error is completely mine.
Several obscurisms, many new to me, so a good challenge; got some from wordplay, some we’re good/educated guesses (e.g. GODOWN). Only tripped up by DEFOE… couldn’t recall the spelling (always confuse writer/actor) and put DAFOE. Turns out daf is also slang for excellent, and a few lesser/minor writers are Dafoes, so perhaps a viable alternate? But actual answer does fit better.
Fav was DEXTER… very satisfying when it finally clicked.
Thanks to Pasquale for an enjoyable workout, and to Loonapick for helping fill the parsing gaps.
Today is, of course, Michaelmas- hence 16 across.
Struggled a bit today with COLIN eluding me, GODOWN and DEW(e)Y both dnk and CURETTAGE simply never coming to mind. And didn’t spot the mini-theme from the three words I had. LEWIS immediately makes me think Scotland and, consequently, not Oxford. I needed loonapick’s help to parse ‘nim’ – although not for the geography. 😀
Having occasionally queried whether something was truly &lit, nice to spot and have confirmed by the blog, both examples today. Very nice, especially VILLAINESS. I liked the device employed in RENOWN, IN DISGRACE made me smile, MICHAELMAS DAISY is a delightful anagram but my COTD is the slightly archaic DRY MEASURE. I was pleased to recall that old meaning of ‘peck’ and, once I had ‘dry’, the rest followed.
I’m not sure why ‘Shakespearean’ was included in activism (which is, in other respects, a clever clue). I’m not a huge theatregoer but surely other playwrights have produced five act plays?
[JinA – you haven’t posted as I write but just wanted to assure you I enjoy your written as well as your financial contributions to the Guardian! :D]
Thanks Pasquale for the workout and loonapick for the insights.
I managed to notice the DEXTER related answers but was unaware of the occasion. In retrospect a very nice tribute. The “dry me” plea in 15d was amusing, and I also liked 5d IN DISGRACE. I knew of Thomas Dewey from the famous “Dewey defeats Truman” headline (which wasn’t true).
Many thanks Pasquale and loonapick.
21d reminded me of sinister dexter sinister dexter in one of the Carry Ons (Up the ..Collisseum?..something Roman)..
Thanks Pasquale and loonapick
No idea on the theme, and COLIN went in (as George Clements @1 said) with a “what else could it be?” (COLON also fits, of course). Are Shakespeare’s plays all in five acts?
I knew GODOWN from crosswords. The reference is to the spiritual Go Down Moses, Way down to Egypt’s land, and tell old Pharaoh to “let my people go”.
I was going to say that teds were the opposite of rockers, but I was mixing them up with mods.
Like Grantinfreo really not up to it today. Didn’t spot the theme but too many obscurities for enjoyment. Nim? Colin? Dewy? I got the first two but not the last so a dnf. GODOWN I did eventually drag out of the subconscious and I am not aware of SNAP for biscuit but it was the only possible answer. I couldn’t parse REED ORGAN either so all in all it clearly isn’t a good start to the day.
Thanks for the blog Loonapick and sorry Pasquale I am not worthy…….
GinF – “Up Pompeii” (Frankie Howerd) possibly?.
Lord Jim – I remembered the “Dewey wins” headlines too.
[GinF
Or was it Carry on Cleo? the one with famous line from Kenneth Williams as Caesar
“Infamy! Infamy! They’ve all got it infamy!”]
I needed some help with this, but some very clever clues. I liked ACTIVISM and MINIVAN. I knew Dewey from a James Thurber collection which included “The Dewey-Dewey Fog” a riff on expressions like out-Truman Truman, which must have been new in 1948. Thanks to Pasquale for getting me beyond my solving comfort zone and to loonapick for the explanations.
A tough one this, I missed GODOWN, COLIN (both new to me), and DEWY. CURETTAGE only came due to a vague memory from The Cider House Rules.
Great fun though, with IN DISGRACE my favourite. Thanks to both.
Munromad @16: brandy snap is fairly well known though, whether there are other breeds of snap, I do not know.
Petert @19: I have very vague recollections of an old song which included the phrase “the foggy, foggy dew” (I think). Which, I guess, may have had something to do with the reference you encountered?
Mark@12 – I think the point of mentioning Shakespeare is that everyone probably knows that every Shakespeare play had 5 acts, whereas some other dramatists might have produced some plays that had fewer.
Very enjoyable offering from the Don and of course we missed the theme!
Struggled to parse some of these, MINIVAN and DRY MEASURE for two. Some may be still surprised that such a small place as Ely could be termed a City, even though its population has swelled recently. I think only about 10,000 when I taught there in the late Sixties. Perhaps three times as many now. DEWY, GODOWN and COLIN required knowledge from across the other side of The Pond for a change…
MORSE was an early solve for me, and the clever theme tune to the series promptly bubbled up in my mind. Which may have helped, just a little. I remembered reading somewhere that the writer was a crossword fan – so when DEXTER (another delicious clue btw) jumped out at me, the theme was obvious. I adored “Morse” and had a soft spot for “Lewis”, though it was nowhere near as good. Never got into “Endeavour”, however and when I got SIXTIES (yet another stunner of a clue) I did wonder if that series was the real theme – and for all I knew, there were characters in it called Defoe and Dewy and Michael.
Nevertheless, COLIN suddenly became easy-peasy!
And GODOWN made me giggle.
Thanks to Pasquale for the brilliance, and Loonapick, please don’t beat yourself up about East Anglia etc: I guessed “ely” straight away with barely a thought as to its exact location…
Mea culpa…just looked it up, and Ely population has quite recently doubled, not trebled. And their Ship of the Fens magnificent there. And GODOWN, I see is an Asian term, must do my homework better in future…
Ginger snaps are well-known here in the US… and tasty ?
[ should’ve been 🙂 not ? ]
Mark@22. Yes and very appropriate this morning in Manchester. I was beginning to wonder if there was an autumnal theme as well, but maybe not.
Thanks Loonapick, lots of tough stuff here for me: had to do a wordsearch to get Godown although it does ring a vague bell, and only got DEWEY/DEWY from googling a list of failures, so I can’t claim success, but you have cleared up all of my parsing problems.
I think the use of “showing” as a link word in 10A MORSE is clumsy since the clue works the other way round, if you see what I mean – a simple Inventor’s regret … would suffice. But I was pleased to arrive at COLIN, CURETTAGE and others through faith in the wordplay despite not always knowing the resulting words. (And Shirley@12 I am the exception that proves your rule regarding knowledge of Shakespeare’s plays!)
I liked DRY MEASURE (thanks to Peter Piper), In DISGRACE and RENOWN the most, thanks Pasquale for blowing away the cobwebs.
[Onion Woman and Shirl, I added late comments on yesterday’s Pan blog]
Shirley @23: not everybody knew – but I do now, and so does Gazzh. At least there’s two of us. TILT. Strange not to have encountered that before so many thanks.
Petert @29: if it’s wet in Manchester today and you fancy the mood being brought down a little, then here’s the link. This is the Burl Ives version.
[Gaufrid, if you’re keeping an eye on things as usual, I’ve noticed quite a few folk having problems with the emoticons of late. I find them behaving erratically: in my earlier post @12 one worked and one didn’t and I see OddOtter had a misfire @27]
As my question @15 shows, I didn’t know that either. I Googled and found this interesting site – apparently the division into acts and scenes wasn’t Shakespeare’s, but a later editor’s.
Ronald @24 – Ely is a city because of its cathedral, not its size – like St David’s in Wales.
muffin @34: thanks for the link and apologies for not acknowledging your admission of Bardic ignorance in my reply to Shirley. I won’t repeat my “I read your post and promptly forgot it” quip of the last week. (Oops – just repeated it). But I was relieved to see you pop up yesterday. After your observations about your short-term memory, your absence on Friday had me wondering if you’d forgotten to come here! 😀
Petert @19: I looked up the Thurber piece you mention (the title obviously being based on that of Mark’s song), and it includes this:
… if Dewey is trying to out-Truman Truman, and Truman is trying to out-Wallace Wallace, a lot of voters will jump to the conclusion that Dewey Dewey – I mean Dewey – is trying to out-Wallace Wallace. As a matter of fact, he probably only intends to out-Truman the Truman who is trying to out-Roosevelt Roosevelt, and not the Truman who is trying to out-Wallace Wallace…
Great stuff.
Cobro worked out the theme.
Favourites were SIXTIES and ACTIVISM.
Thanks to blogger, setter, and all commenters 🙂
Mark @22
The verse/song you remember has the first line “I am a bachelor, I live with my son”, and the last lines are “The only thing I ever did wrong was to save her from the foggy, foggy dew.”
Still on the subject of this crossword: I have a book of Colin Dexter’s crosswords at home, and on the front cover is one of his best clues: “Person with crimes to solve (9,5)”.
Today would have been Colin Dexter’s 90th birthday. Keith @35 Cambridge, also in E Anglia, is a city but has no cathedral.
Mark @33
The usual reason why emoticons are not displayed correctly is that there has not been a space both before and after the typed code. This is why the second emoticon in your comment #12 was not converted.
Alan B @39: thanks for that. Can you imagine a song written today with those opening lines? Not exactly Top Ten potential! If you want to hear the song, I posted a link @32. Brilliant Dexter clue. At the very least, &littish if not the full thing.
As Alan B says there are books on crosswords by Colin Dexter. Also the Morse characters relate to solvers eg Christopher Morse. Anyone who does Azed will know that solvers include a certain Mr Manley and before his death a certain Mr N C Dexter. Thanks to Mr M for such a tribute on such a day as today .
Ronald @24 Not all cities have cathedrals and not all towns that have cathedrals are cities. Arundel has a cathedral but is not a city – Brighton just down the road is a city but does not have a cathedral. “City” is (and has been for a very long time) been a civil status. Those of us who are disestablishmentarianists would like to see wholescale separation of church and state in the UK but that I fear is now a LONG way off given the people we have in power…
To the puzzle, that was hard work! Didn’t get the theme until the very last minute which was too late to help me much. FOI was GLUCOSE and many new and interesting words of which GODOWN has caused quite a bit of Googling this morning https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/article/2097479/where-did-word-godown-come-india-most-probably-malay
Thank you to Pasquale and loonapick for the mental work-out!
Godown is a word quite familiar to us in India, whether English-speaking or not. I am truly surprised it is a new word for some of us in this blog.
Michelle @3 and Muffin @15, I’m sure GODOWN is from the spritual song, as Muffin says. The most well-known version to me (which I’ve sung many times) is the one in Micheal Tippett’s “Five Negro Sprituals” [sic]. A lovely song, well harmonised, and I was, in fact, humming it only yesterday!
Mark @42
Sorry I missed the link in your later comment.
I liked the economy of that ‘brilliant’ clue too.
An absolutely splendid challenge. Almost every clue pleased. It took rather longer than a typical midweek puzzle, but every second was enjoyable, every remote corner of the grid had to be teased out, and the last-one-in (DEXTER) produced a final glow of satisfaction. I’m not sure I would have even got started without the two big anagrams, but even then, the three new-to-me words were a challenge (GODOWN, COLIN, CURETTAGE). Many favorites, but DRY MEASURE was memorable. And it’s always nice to be left with no parsing problems, but –as always – others have taken care of all those issues. PS: It’s hard for an old-timer to accept the fact that Mary Quant is ninety – oh to stroll once again down Carnaby Street in the Swinging Sixties.
What riches in today’s riffing! Folk classics (foggy dew), Thurber (Dewey-Dewey fog), Williams in Carry On (they’re very intense aren’t they…ooh yes they do everything in tents here), Shakespeare’s acts, Dexter’s cruciverbalism..and more. Terrific stimulus from the Don.
I thought this both neat and cunning. I sort of linked DEXTER with GRACE and spent a fair while wheedling out LEWIS and COLIN (which I knew as hake in France) so i missed the essential four words until I looked again
Very fine puzzle.thanks P and loonapick. (I remember living in Suffolk in the 70s and reckoning East Anglia could make a Republic(arable farming, old houses-a bit like Denmark)But them were the days when Bobby Robson was the boss.
Oh dear! Somewhat selcouth – even by Pasquale standards…
(I too thought Cambridgeshire to be part of East Anglia)
Many thanks to setter and blogger.
Well, I didn’t know Colin the Caterpillar [non-UK posters, please consult the Web]. Vds Prasad @45; no surprise that I didn’t know GODOWN either, but I thought the clue was good. I also enjoyed the clue for RENOWN.
And while I’m admitting my ignorance, Shirley @23 [my lucky number], I didn’t know that all Shakespeare plays had five acts.
I thought this was reasonably straightforward for a Pasquale and enjoyed it.
Thanks Pasquale and ‘lost in East Anglia’ – it’s brave to own up to your mistakes, and I think I would have just changed it.
Gaufrid @41: thanks for that. I see what I did now with closing bracket.
Can anyone give an explanation of how 25 can be described as ‘&lit’?
I appreciate that this is the Guardian and anything with a couple of words linked to the answer is passed off as ‘clue as definition’, I’ve become inured to Everyman’s nonsense, the looseness of the newer setters and even to QAOS and his ‘enough to to solve it’ complacency but this is Pasquale – a proper setter!
I’ve switched to buying the Times and have taken to cherry picking which Guardian cryptic to do but now even the cherries are turning sour!
Rant over, any help greatly appreciated.
[There’s a pair of folkies who call themselves “The foggy duo“!]
Pasquale at his best. It’s hard for me to pick favorite clues, but I’ll mention IN DISGRACE and DRY MEASURE, both of which took a while because I initially grabbed the wrong end of the clue as the definition. I was also impressed by the appearance of two true &lits, one more than I’ve ever seen before in a single puzzle. Ultimately defeated by SNAP (snit? snac? stav? Didn’t know the biscuit and ran out of containers before getting to pans) and couldn’t parse DEXTER, so thanks to loonapick for that. Thanks also to Pasquale for a delightful workout.
Ely is definitely in East Anglia, and one of my favourite places. But as MaidenBartok @44 says, not every city has a cathedral. Medieval cities were established by royal charter, and there is often no way (now, and perhaps even then) of knowing why one place achieved that status and another didn’t.
I think my favourite was Michaelmas Daisy, which I loved anyway or the anagram, and then twigged the date when St Michael and All Angels was emblazoned across the top of the Scottish Episcopal Church’s morning prayer feed. The theme passed me by and I could probably parse only half or two-thirds of the answers, although now I see how they work, I don’t know why. I can see that it was all very elegant, like others I found this difficult. (I did identify all the anagrams though.) I thought my brain was not in gear but I seem to have been in tune with many of you. Many thanks to loonapick for explaining all the parsings I had not understood, and to Pasquale for an elegant and pleasing (albeit for me unfinishable) puzzle.
I enjoyed this, thank you Pasquale and loonapick.
21 OE is Old English, and the only author ending in OE I could think of was Defoe, but “def” was a new one.
COLIN was a new one for me, too, though its other name, Bob White, was one I knew well. I used as a child to whistle its call to see if somebody would whistle it back. Try googling its call (I found the call yesterday of the peewit) and you’ll hear why it’s called Bob White.
Is there a part of the Edinburgh Festival that isn’t the Fringe? The Fringe is the only part I’ve ever heard about.
“Go Down, Moses” is a well-known spiritual over here, sometimes sung at Passover seders in the US.
petert@19 “Out-Truman Truman” comes from “out-Herod Herod,” which comes from Hamlet. Not exactly new in Truman’s time, though using it may have had a vogue then.
Mark@21 We have ginger snaps, at least in the US. (Are they the same as ginger nuts?) @22 “The foggy, foggy dew,” is a well-known traditional song in both the UK and the US.
Alan B @39 The song begins “When I was a bachelor, I lived all alone,” and the last verse begins, “Again I am a bachelor, I live with my son.” The touching story connects the two.
I came to this late, found it difficult, slow to solve, blamed the unfriendly grid, and forgot to look for it, so I missed the theme. All my own fault, with hindsight. Now that all is explained, I love the theme!
Really liked the long one as aforementioned, 16a MICHAELMAS DAISY.
Thanks to Pasquale, loonapick, and all before me for a great puzzle and blog.
[Your post much appreciated, Mark@12]
That was hard. Needed lots of help. But for some unknown reason I did remember that there was a presidential candidate called Dewey. Think the blog has missed an a in the anagram for 16a.
Liked REPUBLIC, CURETTAGE, RENOWN (which iIdid not manage to parse).
Thanks to Pasquale and Loonapick
I knew GODOWN (the only thing I remember from my attempt – many years ago – to read Salman Rushdie), NIM and DEW[E]Y, but COLIN was a shrug – I knew the French fish but not the American bird. I have to thank commenters above too numerous to mention for the lively discussion of bits of GK that they have learned or are happy to enlighten others about. As Eileen would say (has she slept in this morning?), this is what makes our little online community so rewarding.
Missed the theme, of course, and had forgotten that September 29th is Michaelmas, but 16a was my first one in. This was a relatively easy solve for me, unusually for a Pasquale, probably helped by some friendly anagrams and some accurate and inventive wordplay.
Many thanks to the Don, and thanks also to Loonapick for
beating yourself up so that we didn’t have toa blog that is a model of accuracy, helpfulness and erudition.[Re 24a LEWIS, and totally off piste, but I just wanted to thank whoever it was who recommended Peter May’s Lewis Trilogy on this forum some time ago. I have recently finished binge-reading the three books and really enjoyed them.]
William F P @51. Wow, thanks for that! Selcouth is a word that I am going to have to try very hard to incorporate into a sentence at the earliest opportunity.
Valentine @58: thanks for the ginger snap (also referenced by OddOtter earlier). In return, re Edinburgh Festival, yes there is a main festival though the Fringe can actually excite more press coverage. The main festival includes music, opera, theatre, dance, talks, readings. I think there is also, or used to be, a Book Festival and a Film Festival. All running through much of August and hosted by the City’s main venues. The Fringe has grown massively but still retains certain elements that have always been there; quite a number of younger acts/performers; plenty of comedy; lots of off-the-beaten-track venues; multiple performances of varying acts in many venues; a tendency to be risque, avant garde, close to the knuckle.
[More about “foggy, foggy dew”, and thus tangential to the crossword: this article discusses how the words may be corrupted, either accidentally or deliberately, from bugaboo or from the Irish orocedhu (“the dark”). ]
Valentine @58
Thanks for putting me right about that old story-telling song about the foggy dew. I remember now that it started in that way (in fact it must start in that way!).
DaveinNC @56: I ran through much the same list of biscuit options as you and have to confess my first entry was snac, assuming it to be a neologism – or at least a lamentable modern truncation. For once, when Check All revealed my error (took a while to notice it in the completed grid), I was actually rather relieved and then SNAP occured.
[JinA @62: I recall muffin and I discussing the trilogy back in the Summer. Really glad you enjoyed. I’m not sure his later work quite reaches the heights of those first three.]
What’s Chatteris if you’re not there?
I may as well be in Ely or St Ives…
Despite being on the small side for a city, Ely won Jeux sans frontières (European It’s a Knockout!) for the UK in 1973.
Ely Cathedral can be seen in the background, between the two metal heads, on the cover of Pink Floyd’s ‘The Division Bell’.
Julie in Australia @62
I love Peter May’s Lewis trilogy. I also love his book Entry Island and the Enzo series – just a thought.
Everything went in steadily but I dnf as I couldn’t get GODOWN. I hadn’t heard of the Indian warehouse, nor of the Moses song ref (thanks to Muffin @15 for explaining that). To show how lost and desperate to finish I was, I biffed in MOTOWN, purely because Mo is a shortened version on Moses. Pathetic earthling. Several I got but hadn’t heard of (the quail, the scoop, etc) and several I couldn’t fully parse. The nods to Colin D and Michaelmas were subtle and elegant I thought and not as strained as some themes (not that I spotted either prior to coming here!). I thought Dewey was fair game – the newspaper photo is still widely known, even if the man himself is not. Overall, not my finest effort but enjoyable for all that.
Thanks to the Don and loonapick (no need for such contrition in my view – but honourable of you).
Just to give you all a laugh I thought that the theme had something to do with Ted Dexter, the cricketer. Well there was a cricketer in one of the clues, a Ted in another…..
Thanks both,
‘Snac’ is a brand of biscuit, possibly once more widely available than it is today. So, I contend, it makes a valid answer to 23d.
[SH @65
Thanks for the link. I read much of the article and jumped to the ‘Lyrics’ at the end. Fascinating.]
Hard for me to resist commenting today. I am astonished that it took until now for me to learn that I share my name with a bird. A significant TILT. While it doesn’t surprise me that GODOWN is in use in India, it is also very common in Hong Kong, Singapore and other parts of SE Asia. While the godowns themselves are mostly repurposed, there is a Godown arts centre here in KL and I was part owner for a while in the 90s of a then famous Godown bar in Hong Kong. I have never seen any of the TV show but Morse-related clues show up so frequently in Guardian Crosswords that I was aware that there was a theme. An enjoyable solve, favourite was DRY MEASURE. I thought for a while that “a certain peck” was Gregory but that went nowhere. Thanks to Pasquale and Loonapick.
I don’t remember the main plot, but I do remember that the crossword played a minor role in one of the Inspector Morse episodes.
A plea for an explanation now. Several people have liked MICHAELMAS DAISY, so I assume it’s a fine clue, but I can’t see the need for both “upset” and “stupidly”. It seems either one alone will indicate an anagram. Having both is not wrong, since an anagram of an anagram is still an anagram, but it is unusually redundant. I’m sure I’m missing something obvious, please elucidate! Thanks.
Tyngewick @72 – I also considered Snac (or was it Snak?) but I seem to remember it more as a cracker for cheese, than a biscuit?
Dr WhatsOn @75: I suspected the problem Pasquale had was having arrived at yes, mama, child, is and a surplus ‘a’ as the fodder for his anagram, he couldn’t see an elegant way to link the five elements such that they could be covered by a single anagram indicator. Perhaps “Yes, Mama with a child is stupidly…” might have worked, although Pasquale did arrive at a smoother surface.
Self @77: though, to Dr W’s point, I suppose “(Yes, Mama is) upset with (a child) making…” would have done the job although might some us have then complained that it wasn’t clear what fodder was subject to the indicator?
Dr. WhatsOn @75. I think the setter is being punctilious (or fair and accurate, depending on your point of view): “yes mama’s upset with a child making bloomer” could prompt a (justified) complaint that the position of the anagrind does not specifically include its operation on the letters of a child as well as the letters of yes mama’s.
Of course, as the clue is written, it could be accused of leading to an anagram (upset) of yes mama’s with (=followed by) an anagram (stupidly) of a child, which doesn’t produce MICHAELMAS DAISY. Unless, as you seem to be saying, it’s an anagram of yes mama’s with an anagram of the result of that with a child, making one or other of the anagrinds redundant. Having now got myself into a corner, I propose to extricate myself by saying that there’s nothing wrong with a little redundancy for the sake of the surface – this is often seen with the occasional on, for, to, etc in double definitions.
Or I could revert to your own “having both is not wrong” and leave it at that!
Dr. W @75, I think Mark @78 gets at what might have been in Pasquale’s mind in constructing the clue. I took it as “upset” to indicate the anagram of “Yes, mama is” and “stupidly” to indicate the anagram of “a child.” We’ve certainly seen examples of “A upset with B” to clue an anagram of the union of A and B, but Pasquale’s wording is cleaner.
Kaiser soze@76
Yes, I remember Snac as a salty savoury cracker, but that still makes it a biscuit in my classification of things.
Oops, sh @79, we crossed.
[Self @79: “yes mama is” not “yes mama’s”, obv.]
hatter @79 & DrW @75: a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma
[Dave in NC @82: no need to apologise.]
Mark @84. Enigma of yes mama is mystery wrapped in riddle of a child stupidly making a bloomer?
I’ll get me coat…
Tyngewick @76. Now I’m starting to doubt myself and wondering if I’m experiencing a false memory and confusing it with Tuc (also a salty savoury cracker). I’ll be puttin’ on the Ritz next!
Either way, you’re right, biscuit covers the spectrum from cookies to crackers.
I do enjoy it when a kind of infectious collective lunacy breaks out here!
As no one has yet replied to the ‘rant’ of Robert @54:
I think 25 has to be read as: (The) ‘First to collect rags, even when chucked?’ Then, if you are prepared to accept ‘when chucked’ as the anagrind, it could be seen as an &lit. Obviously, if one doesn’t include ‘when’ as part of the anagrind, it would be a semi-&lit, I think. If ‘The’ or ‘One’ was added at the front, it would be a semi-&lit/extended definition/clue-as-definition. At least, that’s the way I would explain it …
Tyngewick@72, keyser soze@76 etc and any others – I very nearly went down the SNAC route before realising I was indeed confusing it with TUC (one of my favourites with or without cheese). Just done a quick google and the closest I can get is SNAK (from NZ it seems) which must be the one you remember, but doesn’t justify KANS as containers i suppose.
As for Michaelmas Daisy, it was my FOI and only so clear because of both anagram indicators so I am very grateful to Pasquale for providing them (and to my dad for growing them in the garden when I was young or I would never have known about them).
I’ve read the Morse stories, but so long ago I don’t remember any of the plots. I do remember that he was always doing Times crosswords, though, and thinking, “If you’re so damn smart, why aren’t you doing the ones in the Guardian?” I believe it’s Inspector Grant (Peter Robinson) who does Guardian puzzles, or perhaps used to.
Thanks, Pasquale. I found this difficult but not to the point of abandonment. While it was a DNF I found a lot to like including VILLAINESS (great compact clue), ACTIVISM, and DEXTER. Of course the theme was lost on me. Thanks Loonapick for the write-up.
sh @ 65 I read the article on the Foggy, Foggy Dew, and it was very strangely written, as if a group of people who all know something of the matter each contributed bits without reading anything from the others. It keeps saying the same things over and over, interspersed with lists of recordings of the song (two of which were by people I knew, Sandy and Caroline Paton and John Roberts and Tony Barrand. I knew the Patons well but never heard of the recording this article mentions.
me @91 My mistake, Inspector Banks, not Grant. Inspector Grant is Josephine Tey’s character, especially in the masterpiece Daughter of Time.
“Sinister Dexter, Sinister Dexter” was the Roman centurion’s instruction to his soldiers in Derek Jarman’s film ‘Sebastiane’ where the dialogue was all in Latin. But I think Monty Python may have borrowed it.
Valentine @93. Yes, a bit like reading the comments below the line on Fifteen Squared! I must admit I skimmed through it, picking up the bits about how the lyrics had been changed at different times and places. Maybe there is a more scholarly version of this information somewhere.
Hard work but got there in the end (LOI was SNAP). Stared blankly initially, then saw MICHAELMAS DAISY and got going at a reasonable lick. Favourites were DRY MEASURE and OGLE. Missed the theme as always. Many thanks to the Don and to loonapick.
[The “sinister dexter” line was in the same programme/film as the NCO (or equivalent) got the Roman troops to “number off”
I, II, III, IV…
The hero – I can’t remember who it was – was IV, and the corporal gave him a funny look everytime he said it.
Valentine @94 – agree about “The daughter of time”. There’s a Morse story – The wench is dead – where he also solves it from a hospital bed.
Also “The foggy foggy dew” was one of the folk songs that Benjamin Britten “got at”.]
muffin @98 But in “The Wench Is Dead,” the characters re all fictional, so Dexter can make up whatever evidence Inspector Grant needs. In “Daughter of Time,” Richard III and the others really existed, and Josephine Tey had to find real evidence.
[Valentine @99
I’ve been interested in it since I read Hugh Ross Williamson’s “Historical Enigmas”. I can’t remember the exact wording, but his chapter on the Princes in the Tower starts with “The question isn’t if Richard killed the princes, it’s when Henry VII did”.]
Not in response to anything in particular but possibly of some interest:
Forgot to mention earlier that I also enjoyed the generational shift in 21A from clue (Brill) to solution (Def) – and over at the D***y M**l, if you can bring yourself to look, is an article and list of words (including the former) that are apparently decreasingly recognised by under-30s, the implication that they will before long drop out of use entirely – except for occasional appearances in crosswords, of course.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8784289/Experts-reveals-English-words-young-people-never-heard-including-lush.html
Sorry I don’t know how to make that clickable but that probably helps you to avoid accidentally polluting your minds with DM filth.
You’re reminding me of one of my minor peeves, people writing “Now is the winter of our discontent,” (it’s winter now), when Richard’s actual sarcastic line is “Now is the winter of our discontent/ Made glorious summer by this sun of York,” (it’s summer now, if you can believe it). (That’s Shakespeare’s villainous Richard, of course, not the historic one.)
I struggled today – had to reveal ‘godown’ and quite a lot of use of the ‘Check This’ button. But I think I then managed to parse everything but Colin, Godown and Minivan (even though I should have recalled ‘Nim’).
To continue the Morse theme, as well as today being Michaelmas, Michaelmas Term will shortly be starting in Oxford.
[Valentine @91 “I’ve read the Morse stories, but so long ago I don’t remember any of the plots.” I’m convinced that in most policier and Opera there are only about 5 plotlines, barring the great Martin Beck, of course…]
[Gaufrid & Mark: Didn’t know of the autoconversion… discovered completely by accident that “:” followed by “)” gets converted. My initial misfire was trying to use an actual emoji, which resulted simply in “?”. Gaufrid is there a page that describes emoji/emoticon handling on the site?]
Penultimate part of Shakespearean play is beginning to move into vigorous campaigning (8)
My thinking was that only Henry IV and VI have parts in their titles.
Penultimate, of two, was IV? And part also used for ACT? A bit jammy or not?
KLColin @ 74 – I too thought of “gregory” for peck and ‘check it’ gave me the second “r” which helped a bit.
OddOtter @105: Eileen (I think) posted this a while ago and I’ve saved it. Here
Robi @89 Thanks for the reply but however you read it it’s still miles away from being even a semi &lit definition for scavenger, it’s an unfinished clue of a type that is becoming a staple in Guardian cryptics – “wordplay without definition”, most crossword editors would reject it and it wouldn’t have been hard to add a definition at the start (but if the editor and the audience don’t care then why bother)?
In the context of a Pasquale crossword I find it massively disappointing.
BTW Otter, the discussion below the posting – dating from 2009 – is amusing, given how things have developed (if that’s the right word) over the subsequent decade 😉
Robert @108, clearly the clue isn’t your cuppa, but for me it did read as a defn by example, albeit a stretched one, hence the “?” usage. To me, someone who collects rags even after they’re chucked (i.e. binned) might be called a scavenger. “First”~(first one)~(someone) is clunky, again indicated by “?”, but was deemed necessary by the setter for the wordplay. But I do commiserate… sometimes a clue just doesn’t sit well, regardless of what others say.
Clunky as it is, I’d call it a full on w=d (wordplay equals defn)… vs w<d (wplay inside defn), w>d (wplay contains defn), or w~d (wplay overlaps defn).
[Mark, thanks for the link… did eventually find it myself even before that, though it’s a bit of needle/haystack… and still not clear why actual emojis fail]
[MaidenBartok @44, re @26 yesterday: Your gran’s borscht sounds terrific, and I loved the image of her chewing garlic while smoking Black Russians. She sounds like a real mensch!]
Pasquale always strikes me as one of the tougher setters, and this was no exception. I got stuck in multiple places and had to cheat to varying degrees to get myself out. But I enjoyed the struggle nonetheless. My particular favorites were 25ac (I’m a sucker for a good &lit / cad), 15dn (for the trickily hidden definition, and 20dn (for the unusual but satisfying CHILDREN – CHILD).
Like Dr. WhatsOn @75, I found the second anagrind in 26ac unnecessary, but not wrong. I don’t think I buy the claim that it’s needed because otherwise the scope of the anagram fodder wouldn’t be clear: that sort of ambiguity is a legitimate weapon in the setter’s arsenal. (For instance, if a clue contains “initially” followed by a bunch of words, we don’t typically know in advance how many words it applies to.)
As an American, I found Thomas Dewey to be quite familiar, but I did think when I solved the clue that that was probably a pretty difficult reference for people from other parts of the world. Of course English people know far more about US history and culture than the other way around. Try getting an American to name a losing English politician from 70 years ago! (Well, technically I suppose we could come up with Winston Churchill, who lost the prime ministership a couple of times, but that’s hardly a fair comparison.)
An ignorant question, of interest to me for obvious reasons: Is the rocker “Ted” the same thing as a “Teddy Boy”? I confess that I’ve never been quite sure what the Teddy Boys were all about.
Am I the only one reading this forum to have both first and last names appear as answers in the same crossword? Ever?
Colin Lewis @113: splendid achievement. I don’t know how you did it. Only your parents to thank. There’s always a risk that posts at this point in the day might go unacknowledged and I didn’t think your special day should go unmarked (no pun intended). Congratulations!
Ted @ 112
‘Ted’ is indeed an abbreviation for ‘Teddy Boy’. Late 1950s rock’n’rollers whose dress was signified by crepe-soled shoes (aka ‘brothel creepers’) and long frock coats which harked back to the Edwardian era, hence ‘Ted’. Plus their DA hairstyles.
hth
[grantinfreo @111 Indeed she was. She tried to give up smoking by eating Polo mints instead. She discovered she could thread on on the cigarette. Then she found fruit Polos and thread a couple of those on as well. So she smoked three Polos and a Black Russian all whilst holding me aged 6 months in her arms. Ahh… the simple delights of nicotine as a babe-in-arms].
Ted @112 – do you know if there is any relationship between Thomas and Melvil Dewey? The latter would probably be of more interest to cruciverbalists I suspect…
Mark @114: Thanks for taking the trouble. Too kind. I struggled with this one and didn’t finish until late afternoon here in the USA, which explains the late post.
Loonapick – apologies for mine @51. I actually posted at 8am (I thought) when only two comments were up and before yours @4. But my unusually early comment was made from my bed and my ‘phone was still offline. It seems that the comment appeared when I switched phone online at lunchtime!
Jeang. FYI: East Anglian cities: Cambridge, Norwich, Bury St. Edmunds, Peterborough, Chelmsford(?), Colchester(?) and possibly more to the west.
P.s :St. Alban’s. I may be wrong about the city status of some and may have missed some- I didn’t look them up.
MaidenBartok@44
The reason that Arundel isn’t a city although it has a cathedral is that its cathedral, built in the 19th century, is Roman Catholic. Most of the cathedrals in “cathedral cities” were Roman Catholic but Henry VIII changed all that.
Some places, like Portsmouth for example, were cities before their parish church was upgraded.
In case anyone is still interested, possession of a C of E cathedral is neither necessary nor sufficient for City status – Bury St Edmunds is NOT a city despite having an Anglican cathedral, Cambridge IS a city despite not having one.
Simon S – thank you for explaining the origin of the term Teddy Boys which I had always wondered but never researched.
Gazzh @90 If you search on ‘snac -snack’ it’s not long before you come across a reference to ‘snac’ crackers albeit that the n is printed the wrong way round on the packet, presumably as a promotional device.
MaidenBartok @112 — No, I don’t know of a relationship between the two Deweys. I found one web site that claims they’re 5th cousins twice removed, but (assuming this is even true), it has nothing to do with the coincidence of their surnames, as the common ancestor was someone with a completely different surname. (If you go to such distant levels of kinship, practically everyone is related to practically everyone anyway!)
Tyngewick@123 blimey and they are even swiss! (made in germany but branded swiss coop) although I don’t remember ever seeing them in the supermarket – will look out for them next time. Thus you were right all along and I apologise for doubting you!
[GOSH!! One may use LOGARITHMS for the square root of fifteen, but clearly one needs LOGORRHOEA for fifteen squared.
Gaufrid – is this not a little sad?
It so often takes longer to read the ‘comments’ than to complete the puzzle. Sometimes it feels more like a coffee morning, tea party or cocktail hour than a crossword appreciation site! Don’t get me wrong; I’m not a sourpuss (like one or two of our old comrades here!) and enjoy the odd relevant anecdotal excursion (I’d cite cookie’s tales for example) but incessant puerile wittering can be irritating and offputting for those of us with insufficient time/desire to wade through: (1) essentially personal colloquies, (2) draft excerpts from somebody’s autobiography, (3) repetitions, (4) continued argument over a point (or off the point?!) already put to bed. And so on. Just saying! I realise the difficulty in proscription here since appraisal is subjective. I just wanted to vent my spleen (you are probably as aware as I) and no-one left to upset – I’m sure they’re all lovely people! Nor do I expect any change….. Take care]
William @126
I completely understand what you have said and why you have made your views known. What you say applies, I think, only to the Guardian thread on this website, and it is clear to eveyone who has been around a few years (as I have – since 2014) that it has evolved from being merely an active forum for the exchange of views on the day’s puzzle, and further discussion of topics related to it, into a more extensive sharing of views on many subjects closely or not so closely related to the puzzle.
I for one accept that this thread has been shaped, over time, by regular commenters who have a shared desire to discuss topics at length – generally in a good-natured way, without causing offence. I agree with you, however, that comments falling into categories (3) and (4) of your analysis are particulrly annoying and perhaps should be called out more.
I would just say that the effact of the change that both you and I have noticed and experienced is that I am now rarely able to read all that has gone before when I come to this site to post a comment. I have to be selective, either deliberately or randomly (!), write what I want to say and hope that I have not missed anything or, worse, offended anyone. Inevitably I do miss some things, and I (still) feel that I then have to return with a brief note of explanation.
There is a site policy about topics of discussion being relevant to the puzzle but not (as far as I know) on how long those discussions can be. While the topics are discussed in an intelligent, articulate and considerate way, I cannot complain, and my only plea is (under ‘being considerate’) to ask contributors who are taking any discussion further to be aware of what has gone before and bear in mind all four of William’s categories before they post.
Bless you Alan – I doubted anyone would see this (save loonapick and Gaufrid)! It was more self-psychocalming, vital in these times, than a public moan; better out than in. It’s clear you are a lovely person and perhaps even more tolerant than me (I?) and I value your opinion with which I (almost!) totally concur. But I wonder sometimes whether those who have/are ‘shaped’ the thread may have deterred others (some lurkers may find it too ‘clubby’ and other non-lurkers may have found it too ‘owned’ by a few. You and I are neither) or simply, by dint of the sheer volume of the volubility, put off from fully engaging as you describe. I admire your judicious pragmatism – unfortunately, once I’ve read the first one I feel duty bound to read them all! Many thanks again Alan. Take care. W
I knew Dewey from the opening credits of Cheers.
Am I the only one who thought that there was some link between the missing name Endeavour and the words Avenger, Republic, Renown, Ardent – something to do with ships ?
A few things not to like about this. GODOWN and COLIN I couldn’t understand even after getting the answers.
Also, I read one of the Morse books once. It was truly awful.
@126. People who say they’re not a sourpuss and then accuse others of ‘puerile wittering’ sound not only like sourpusses but also Boris Johnson-type public schoolboy snobs. Anyway, there is absolutely no compulsion for you to read through all the comments for every crossword. I don’t. I didn’t know there was anybody who did.