Guardian Cryptic 28,260 by Crucible

61 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,260 by Crucible”

1. A good challenge. Spotted the theme for once. Thanks Crucible and Manehi.

2. Thanks Crucible and manehi

   Nice crossword. I didn’t know ALGORISM or LEXEME, but they were clearly clued. AS as a coin was new to me too.

   Favourites BREWER and LIGHT OPERA.

3. Certainly slow and very tricky to solve, particularly the SW corner. Not quite so sure about there being a lot to enjoy! Probably because I’m more familiar with the work of brewers than lexicographers and French publishers.

   Thanks to Crucible and Manehi.

4. Took ages to get into, but then the answers started coming. Didn’t spot the theme until very late, but once I did it helped me get the last three in, which were WEBSTERS, BREWER, and REVERB. Very nice puzzle, with the Johnson quote being another hint at the theme.

5. I found this the most challenging and enjoyable puzzle in quite a long time. Almost every clue had to be teased out and relished in the solving, and too many many favorites to mention – in fact virtually all of them fell in that category – but the interplay between EARDRUMS and A HARMLESS DRUDGE was just one outstanding feature, especially to a Samuel Johnson enthusiast, a man to whom we word-lovers owe so much. The SW corner almost defeated me, with WEBSTERS the last-one-in, and needing some side-research, as did several others along the way – so it was also an overall learning experience. This puzzle certainly met my criterion of breaking-the-hour (and almost did damage to the next one). Thanks setter, for a memorable experience.

6. Yep, very few glossy-mag gimmes today, nice and chewy, with a couple of nhos to boot, eg algorism not ithm, tho from the same Persian mathematician. Not sure what we call trainee surgeons here, so just ground the grist. Ditto the hymn, not my forte, tho it’s turned up quite recently (I think). Noticed some publishers but didn’t take much notice, and didn’t remember the grand old lexicographer’s self-description. Haven’t much been into G and S since singing The Judge in T by J at school, but guessed something like Patience must be the case.

   Most enjoyable, thanks Crucible and manehi.

7. I entirely agree with rodshaw @5; this was a beautiful work of art.  I’d include (re)VERB, (upper/lower) CASE, as well as LEXEME and STRESS MARK in the dictionary-related theme.  And of course the ‘lady of letters’ in the clue for 11a.

   I agree A HARMLESS DRUDGE was clue of the day (partly for the Boris misdirection).  Maybe the surface of 6d (‘Word list fool set up in delight’) is also a sly dig at the business of dictionary-making, or an echo of Johnsonian self-deprecation.

   I also ticked EARDRUMS for not being a homophone (!) and BREWER for the nod to Glenn Miller (I’m not going to attempt a link after I made a pig’s ear of it yesterday 🙂 ).

   I didn’t know ALGORISM, so thanks manehi for the explanatory link, and bravo Crucible.

8. I forgot to say that I parsed the AS in CASE as A S(hilling) – almost works!

9. Could (house) SURGEON be a nod in this direction?

   I thought the def for 5ac was odd; everyone knows that an ALGORISM is an inconvenient truth.

10. Trovatore @9

    🙂

11. Fun with Chambers for some more allusive theme words:

    APOLOGIA: “statement in defence of a belief”

    RECONDITE: “from Latin reconditus hidden”

    Perhaps the theme is really Crucible making a self-deprecating riff on that central quote?

12. Missed the theme –  nothing unusual there – and made a daft spelling error in 3d despite working out the parsing.

    Thoroughly enjoyable.

13. I totally agree with rodshaw @5 and essexboy @7 – a beautiful work of art indeed.

    I (try to) solve the clues in order and OXFORD followed by CHAMBERS set bells ringing and by the time I got to 5dn the other Johnson never got a look in.

    Apart from the inspired 14ac / 5dn combination, I had ticks for HOUSE SURGEON, SOLIPSISM, LIGHT OPERA and RECONDITE.

    Sheer delight from start to finish – huge thanks to Crucible and kudos to manehi for a great blog. (And thanks too to Trovatore’@9 – brilliant!)

14. Goodness me – that was tough!  Nearly 2 hours and technically a DNF but held my interest with much Googling; loved the mis-direction on “A HARMLESS DRUDGE” the original Johnson being harmless, the current one being anything-but…

    EARDRUMS was lovely and there were many, many DNKs so as far as I’m concerned that was good solve as I learnt a lot!

    Fabulous Crucible – thanks.   And thank you to manehi.

15. My most sincere contrafibularities to Crucible

16. [JinA if you’re there, tribute riff from Jimmy VH, end of the first quarter Saints v Tigers]

17. Once I twigged A HARMLESS DRUDGE, it nearly all fell into place — though shamefully I needed manehi’s help to get DIES IRAE and REVERB. I liked STRESS MARK. Thanks both.

18. [Bingybing @15 and without too much pericombobulation]

19. I enjoyed that! Spotted the theme, which helped.

    Well done, Crucible and thanks, manehi.

20. A fine crossword, although a bit too much GK for my liking.

    I did spot the theme but that was no help with the Johnson quote, which I ground out from the fodder towards the end.

    Patience with capital was a bit of a hoot, and I liked the simple clue for OXFORD.

    Thanks Crucible and manehi.

21. Used a bit of checking, but this is a first Friday cryptic completed for me so I’m feeling pretty pleased, and I even parsed most of it for once (LIGHT OPERA went in easily from crossers, but Patience was unknown to me). Like John @17 the Johnson quote unlocked the theme and made the SW a lot easier than it otherwise might have been – and the instant smile of recognition as soon as I listed the anagram fodder for it was worth the price of entry.

    Thanks both.

22. [Patience is subtitled “Bunthorne’s bride”. Bunthorne was a much-missed Guardian compiler – from Burnley, as I remember.]

23. I really enjoyed this tough crossword with quite a few references that were unfamiliar to me but were solvable from the wordplay.  Only spotted the theme when it was too late to help.

    I had to guess 12D, my LOI, with the aid of the crossers and knowing LIGHT = DEFT.  Patience is a G&S work that has passed me by.

    In CASE, I didn’t get AS as a Roman coin though I must have read it at some time.  I parsed it, wrongly as it turns out, as A= ancient (!) and S =shilling.   

    Thanks Crucible and manehi.

24. I was very slow to solve this, and was tempted to give up after solving 10 clues in top half.

    New: ALGORISM; John Webster ( c. 1580 – c. 1632) English Jacobean dramatist

    Did not know that a WEBSTER is a weaver. Parsed 12D but did not know that Patience is an opera by G+S.

    Failed 13A (wiki)

    Did not see the theme till I finished.

25. Hard work for me but satisfying. Thanks to C and M

26. That put me in my place! Only a few easy clues, mainly in the NW. I slogged on until I’d done just over half, before using my computer aids. Even they didn’t allow me to finish. Having read the blog, I agree it’s an elegant puzzle but it’s not much fun feeling out of your depth.

    Ho hum, there’s always tomorrow.

    Thanks to manehi and Crucible.

27. What Eileen said

    Thanks to Crucible and manehi

28. That was probably the most appropriate theme possible for our lot – but it didn’t help me in the solving at all.  [As it happens, I have a chapter coming out in an OUP reference work, sometime next year they tell me, but they’ve been telling me that for years.  I suspect when it does come out, they’ll need a new edition right away, but I’m done with it]

    I had vaguely heard of HOUSE SURGEON, but don’t encounter it much, so I looked it up, and a couple of dictionaries defined it as a senior position!

29. Thought this rewarded perseverance today. On first sweep through I only had WIKI for my labours. But EARDRUMS paved the way for the long 5d anagram, which greatly helped with the top half. Though as always these days, with Boris to the fore, the question is – which Johnson? Needed Manehi’s explanation for the cluing of LIGHT OPERA, however.

30. Three themes this week, missed them all. The first two didn’t matter too much but today I’m sure my LOI WEBSTER’S would have come more quickly – or at least without the need for an alphabetical search of dramatists.
    Loved the Johnson misdirection.

31. As I’m not up to solving clues in the correct order, I got the Johnson quote from some crossers and then did EARDRUMS as a subtraction anagram.
    Like a fool I tried to fit ALGORITHM into 5a instead of the unknown ALGORISM.
    Didn’t know LEXEME or STENO either, and needed manehi’s help to parse STRESS MARK.
    Very enjoyable theme, and I did smile when the penny dropped on “patience”.

32. I was well and truly defeated today, but I feel humbled rather than angry. What a lovely grid.

    POSTMISTRESS, especially, was nicely constructed and unfairly overlooked by previous commenters.

33. I had to look up ALGORISM and “patience with capital” was nicely naughty and a good misdirection. Brilliant.

     

34. Thank you Crucible and manehi.

    I am with Eileen and others: a delightful solve. I didn’t find it as tricky as I usually find Crucible, and I spotted the theme. It helped that I dragged up 5dn from deep memory, having seen a one man show about Johnson a few years ago.

    Today is the Saint Day of John Henry Newman, author of Apologia Pro Vita Sua, and one of the leaders of the 10ac movement, so I briefly wondered if that would be the theme.

35. ALGORISM was my foi (thanks Trovatore @9 for the alternative definition!), and I thought there were going to be some tricky words to come. LEXEME was the only nho for me, but certainly even in the absence of any more obscurities, some of the definitions were cleverly obscured. Though the wordplay was completely fair, as far as I’m concerned. My favourite moment was when shows patience with capital revealed its meaning, and I also enjoyed houses urge on in the theatre. Very droll.

    Theme? There was a theme? Oh well, maybe next time.

    Thanks Crucible and manehi.

36. I don’t know how my real name appeared – I am an occasional commenter as Marienkaefer.

37. Wow – that was really tough but hugely satisfying. Lots of great clues. Many thanks to Crucible and manehi.

38. An outstanding puzzle, as rodshaw, essexboy and Eileen have said – one of the best this year.  A HARMLESS DRUDGE was pure genius, and I’m chuffed to have thought of Dr Johnson first, believing the setter was trying to mislead us.

    [By a happy coincidence, I was reading a highly entertaining book on maths yeaterday by Alex Bellos, in which he explained the place in history of the 9th century Arabic mathematician from whose name we get the word ‘algorism’, which later spawned the word ‘algorithm’.  The Arabic name is transliterated as al-Khwarazmi.]

39. Gladys @31 “As I’m not up to solving clues in the correct order,..” Me neither. I would suggest few are. That’s what the crossers are there for, otherwise we could chuck the grid. I could never solve all the clues blind but even a single crosser often can unlock the clue.

40. gladys @31 and Pentman @39 – I hope you’re not misunderstanding my comment at 13: I meant that I go through the clues in order and try to discipline myself not to go immediately to the down clues when, as today, I’ve got lots of tempting initial letters from the top row – if I’ve managed to fill them in!

41. 16d – Weavers, I immediately thought of spiders so “Websters” fell quite easily.  Many thanks to Manehi and, of course, to Crucible.

42. Eileen @40.  I didn’t make a connection between gladys’s comment and your post @13 but was merely commenting on gladys’s remark.  Having re-read your post @13, I understand what you are saying.  Interestingly,  I recently adopted the same strategy you describe of trying to solve the clues as they appear in order.  I thought it might be a quicker way as it would reveal the easier clues earlier and so provide more crossers for the trickier ones.

43. [Many years ago my father introduced me to crosswords by way of the Times. He told me to look at the down clues first, as the compilers put their best clues in the across slots and filled in the downs with easier ones. I haven’t seen much evidence that this is still the case!]

44. I was not up for a challenge this morning and quickly starting clicking the reveal button. I’m proud that I had the foresight to do so because it would have taken me hours to make any headway and I still wouldn’t have been able to divine about a quarter of the puzzle.  Monday is a holiday in the US so I’ll try to rest my brain and get a fresh start next week.

45. Very challenging puzzle.  A lot of it fell into place quite readily, some of it took time, and the rest I had to admit defeat (approx. 4-5 clues that I absolutely could not fathom).

    But no complaints; it was very fair.  And thanks manehi – the explanations definitely helped…

46. It’s somewhat reassuring to see that others found this tough. A DNF for me due to the SW corner but still I managed to get some enjoyment from clues like the simple EXPO and the nicely constructed POSTMISTRESS. Thanks to both.

47. One read through and I decided that this would be way above my level so I swerved it. Having read the hints I am rather annoyed! I would not have completed, but I would have made some progress.
    I am now resolved to have a go at Paul’s prize puzzle tomorrow.
    Thanks for the hints.

48. What crypticsue@27 said. (How long can we make this chain?)

    How could anyone miss the theme, it was so obvious – except to me, doh. OXFORD, CHAMBERS, WEBSTERS and LAROUSSE all went merrily in without connecting to my little brain. And then the brilliant 5d A HARMLESS DRUDGE topped it off.

    Re 5a ALGORISM, I kept looking for a lithp in the clue, but I didn’t thee it. Thanks Trovatore@9 for the alternative definition, and also for the reminder of John Murray’s mad helper – could  14a “a murder suspect… admits items” be another?

    Thanks Crucible and manehi for the delightful crossword and blog.

49. Thanks both,
    A decent work out. Spent some time confused by mistaking ‘stress mark’ as something ladies get after pregnancy.

50. Since we are now discouraged from thanking setter and blogger I’ll get straight to the point: I didn’t enjoy this and thought it registered strongly on the impenetrable scale what with LEXEME, ALGORISM, STENO as obscurities and the surfaces for LIGHT OPERA, LAROUSSE and STRESS MARK making little sense and I’m going to throw in an inter alia here to save ink. (OXFORD)

    Almost worth it all for REFER.

    No.  Can’t do it —– thanks to Crucible: I enjoyed an amount of it and to manehi: I could not have pirouetted backwards on stilts through the parsing of LIGHT OPERA without you and you seemed to enjoy it so that’s good.

51. OXFORD  has a third cross significance.  It is a Martyrs Memorial.

     

52. [me @22

    I had misremembered – Bunthorne originally came from Middleton in Manchester, not Burnley.]

53. [muffin @52. Don’t beat yourself up about it. It’s all Lancashire.]

54. Alphalpha @50. “I could not have pirouetted backwards on stilts through the parsing of LIGHT OPERA without manehi“. I must be a natural backwards-stilts-pirouetter, because my first reading of the clue was that I should be looking for HM (or equivalant) inside something else. When you enlist, you become part of (an organisation); ok I appreciate that the dictionary has “enlist in”, but this is covered (he pirouetted) by the implied punctuation in “old secretary – HM enlisted – shows”. In my experience, the use of enlist as a transitive verb is less frequent than the intransitive: “he enlisted” (in the armed forces understood); “the recruiting sergeant enlisted 20 men today” (not so much). But in fact this one seems to work both ways: “old secretary – with HM enlisted – shows” or “old secretary – in which HM enlisted – shows”. Hardly any contortions required. 🙂

55. Great theme, beautifully linked to our craft of puzzling and some of the reference works available to us. I still believe strongly in thanking the setter and blogger for their efforts, so wanted to add my appreciation for Crucible and manehi. IMVHO, the little courtesies remain an important aspect of the tone of this site. [if you happen to see this, thanks for referring me to the Jimmy Van Halen tribute, grantinfreo@16.]

56. [gif@16 – just a little confused now re who did the tribute riff as I didn’t watch that game. Brother Alex VH and son Wolfgang VH – Jimmy?]

57. [Oh just got it – think you meant “Jump!” but predictive text made it Jimmy!!!!!! Very pertinent to AFL of course! Makes sense now. Not a Jimmy Barnes reference either, although he was once asked to join Van Halen.]

58. Eileen@13
    I have always done the same as you. That way I don’t miss any clues.

59. 26ac – aren’t little and brown some sort of publisher ?

    5d reminded of Blackadder winding Johnson up thus :

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSYiT2iG08

60. The first def for ALGORISM in Collins probably explains the def better than Wikipedia:

    “the Arabic or decimal system of counting”

    [Btw, manehi, I know at least one crossword editor who would jump heavily on any attempt to justify a definition by reference to Wikipedia.]

    Calling it the Arabic system seems odd, as Alkhawarizmi’s book introducing the system appears (correctly) to attribute the system to the Indians. I base that observation on the title of the Latin translation, Algoritmi de numero Indorum (Alkhawarizmi on the Numbers of the Indians). Unfortunately I can’t find a reference to the original title, but it’s probably(?) the fact that it was written in Arabic that explains the Collins definition (and the fact that we speak of the Arabic numerals).

    AlanB@ 38, Alkhawarizmi was a Persian, not an Arab, though — as noted above — he wrote in the Arabic language, as all Muslim scholars would have done in his day.

    Manehi, thanks for explaining the meaning of “patience with capital”. Unfortunately I never stood a chance, as I’d never heard of the G&S. I did finally get the answer from wordplay and crossers, though.

61. Also, re Wiki, the name Wikipedia is derived from Wiki (“a website that allows anyone visiting it to change or add to the material in it”, Collins) + encyclopedia. The  first use of ‘wiki’ was in the website name WikiWikiWeb, introduced and named by Ward Cunningham in 1995, from Hawaiian wikiwiki, “fast, swift.” (Etymonline)

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