The sight of those six letters: N-I-M-R-O-D above an Indy puzzle is usually enough to strike fear into the heart of many a solver and blogger…and this one was no exception for your correspondent!
There seemed to be more cross-references than the average PHD thesis, and it took a couple of runs through just to try and work out where/what all the linkages were.
After the relatively quick and easy hidden/reversed word at 8A, there followed about 30 minutes of mental torture, interspersed with face-palm slaps as various pennies slowly dropped – like the timeless clink-clunk of pennies dropping in one of those seaside arcade sliding machines, where you always seem to put in more than you get out!…
My initial foothold on the linkages was via 26D – if the ‘image’ was an ICON and ‘against’ was CON, then 9D must be I. But 9D was (6,3), so could be NUMBER ONE? I then went on a slight lavatorial detour thanks to the ‘loo cover’ and ‘sit awhile’ at 15A, and an alternative meaning of No. 1!
The first big breakthrough was chancing on the anagram at 23/1, where PRETTY BOY FLOYD dropped out of the letters and crossers, and I was ‘pretty’ sure he was some sort of gangster. 9D appears here, and needs to be combined with 24A, for which I had a few crossers, and managed to come up with PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE – which accolade it turns out the Pretty Boy held at some point.
(I resisted just Go-ogling PE No 1 at this stage, but I did afterwards, to confirm my answers…)
This led to a few other likely characters – BABY FACE NELSON, with the FACE from 4D linking to with 6D to give SCARFACE. Now I am more familiar with the film of that name, starring Al Pacino as a Florida-based gangster of Cuban origin, but of course the nickname was first applied to another Al, of the Chicago-based Italian-immigrant Capone variety – who certainly must have held the coveted title at some point as well.
But that was only part of the journey. There was the strange AND link between 2D and 18A, which I eventually twigged as MAD, BAD (AND) DANGEROUS TO KNOW. I assumed this was just a reference to all these nasty villains, who probably were, but in fact it turns out to have been originally attributed to LADY CAROLINE LAMB, describing her ‘wanton and broody’ lover, LORD BYRON – both of whom also make appearances, CAROLINE obliquely as a mix of ICON and EARL!
Last one in was back to the ‘loo cover’ at 15A – JOHN DILLINGER – another gangster in the list of PE No1’s:
Wow – that was some mind twister! Thanks to Nimrod for an intense set of mental gymnastics! Just a Q, X and Z away from being a pangram as well…
Of the non-thematic/non-linked clues, I think my favourite was the FBI -> FIB ‘twist’ in the tail at 11A! (Actually, the FBI are thematic here, in as much as they are associated with the PE No 1 list. They weren’t the first, as the Roman Senate had named Nero as the hostis publicus – enemy of the people – back in AD 68)
Hope all is clear below…
| Across | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Clue No | Solution | Clue | Definition (with occasional embellishments) / Logic/parsing |
|
| 8A | OVATION | In casino it avoids rejecting a hand (7) | a hand / reversed, hidden word, i.e. in and rejecting, in ‘casiNO IT AVOids’ |
|
| 10A | A GAUCHE | Capital banked by chief, he left for France (1,6) | left, for France / AGA (chief) and HE, around (banking) UC (upper case, capital letters) |
|
| 11A | FIB | False claim a twist in the tail for Feds (3) | false claim / If you ‘twist’ the tail, or last two letters, of the FBI, the Feds, you get FIB! |
|
| 12A | LUMBERYARDS | Builders’ merchants slowly move feet – at least six of them (11) | builders’ merchants / LUMBER (move slowly) + YARDS (at least six feet!) |
|
| 13A | ODD AND EVEN | Game baker subduing big bust meeting a sad end (3,3,4) | game / O_VEN (baker) around (subduing) DD (double-D, large bust size) + A + NDE (anag, i.e. sad, of END) |
|
| 15A | JOHN | & 3 Loo cover lifted, sit awhile: which 9 preceded 23 1? (4,9) | which 9 (PE No1) preceded 23 1 (Pretty Boy Floyd) / JOHN (loo) + DIL (lid, or cover, lifted) + LINGER (sit, awhile) |
|
| 18A | DANGEROUS TO KNOW | … [see 2 Down] AND … (9,2,4) | See 2D / See 2D |
|
| 21A | LAMB | One’s fleece, on fire leaving kitchen, has charred sleeves (4) | one’s (one has!) fleece / if you ‘burn’ the ‘sleeves’ (outer letters) of ( |
|
| 22A | DEPEND UPON | Trust to assume nurses record finish (6,4) | trust / D_ON (to assume, put on) around (nursing) EP (Extended Play, record) + END (finish) |
|
| 24A | PUBLIC ENEMY | & 9 6 4 originally right to run tavern, “Bar One Hundred”, the writer’s favourite (6,5,6,3) | 6 4 (Scarface, or Al Capone) originally (i.e. the first PE No1) / if you have the right to run a tavern, you might have a PUB LICEN( |
|
| 28A | EEL | One devious rogue in Brick Lane Market? (3) | (subtractive) double defn? / an EEL can be a devious person. And a Cockney speaker, e.g. in Brick Lane Market, might drop the aitch of ( |
|
| 29A | FAB FOUR | J, P, G and R; certainly not C, D, F and N here! (3,4) | J(ohn), P(aul), G(eorge) & R(ingo) / i.e. the Beatles. C(apone), D(illinger), F(loyd) and N(elson) ‘here’, i.e. in this puzzle, are certainly not a ‘fab’ four, more of an infamous four?! |
|
| 30A | GLOTTIS | Lies accompanying divination in great speaker’s opening (7) | speaker’s opening (opening of the larynx/windpipe) / G_T (great) around LOT (fortune, divination), plus IS (lies, exists) |
|
| Down | ||||
| Clue No | Solution | Clue | Definition (with occasional embellishments) / Logic/parsing |
|
| 1D | BOY FLOYD | See 23 (7) | See 23D / See 23D |
|
| 2D | MAD, BAD | [with 18 Across] Rogue transported women AND Granddad took a bus (3,3) | rogue! / anag, i.e. transported, of WOMEN AND GRANDDAD TOOK A BUS! |
|
| 3D | DILLINGER | See 15 Across (9) | See 15A / See 15A |
|
| 4D | FACE | See 25 (4) | See 25D / See 25D |
|
| 5D | LADY | She’s entitled to be taken to heart by soulful Knight? (4) | she’s entitled (i.e. has a title) / If you take the heart, or central letters, of soul singer ( |
|
| 6D | SCAR | Evidence of injury from collision of bus and cars? (4) | evidence of injury / hidden word in the ‘collision’ of ‘buS & CARs’ |
|
| 7D | NELSON | See 25 (6) | See 25D / See 25D |
|
| 9D | NUMBER ONE | See 24 Across (6,3) | See 24A / See 24A |
|
| 14D | EASTER EGG | Timely gift set unwrapped since cart’s back before horse (6,3) | timely gift / E (set, unwrapped of its outer letters) + AS (since) + T (back letter of carT) + ERE (before) + GG (horse, gee-gee) |
|
| 16D | OWN | Have to admit it hurt so close to recognition (3) | have / OW (interjection – to admit something hurt so) + N (closing letter of recognitioN) |
|
| 17D | LORD BYRON | Wanton broody lover not content with new man, “2 and 18” to 5 – sad 26 27 – 21 Across (4,5) | man, 2&18 (MB&DTK) to 5 (Lady) sad 26 27 (Caroline – anag, i.e. sad, of ICON & EARL) 21 (Lamb) / anag, i.e. wanton, of BROODY + L( |
|
| 19D | NYM | Pistol associated with him 24 9’s taken over (3) | Pistol’s associated with him (in Shakespeare plays) / reversed, hidden word, i.e. possessive ‘s and taken over, in 24 9 ‘public eneMY Number one’ |
|
| 20D | WINDLASS | Western islands supply a lift for sailors (8) | lift (or hoist) for sailors / W (western) + INDLASS (anag, i.e. supply, of ISLANDS) |
|
| 21D | LOP OFF | Cut line? What’s going on in theatre’s rotten (3,3) | cut / L (line) + OP (operation, what’s going on in theatre) + OFF (rotten) |
|
| 23D | PRETTY | & 1 “Forty” body type falters around fifty: which 9 preceded … (6,3,5) | which 9 (PE No1) preceded 25D/4/7 (Baby Face Nelson) / anag, i.e. falters, of FORTY BODY TYPE + L (fifty, in Roman numerals) |
|
| 25D | BABY | & 4 & 7 … this 9, by loading First Class up with whizz next to hold (4,4,6) | this 9 (PE No1) / BA_F (fab, first class, up) around (loaded by) BY, plus ACE (whizz) + NELSON (wrestling hold) |
|
| 26D | ICON | 9 against image (4) | image / I (9, number one) + CON (contra, against) |
|
| 27D | EARL | He’s entitled to join 26 to make arrangements for 5 21 Across (4) | he’s entitled (i.e. has a title) / in a roundabout way – if you join EARL and ICON (26) and make arrangements (anagrammise them) you might get CAROLINE, as in Lady Caroline Lamb (5D 21A) |
|
Another brain-mangler from Nimrod – but then we wouldn’t expect anything less. Lots to enjoy but the first one I got that made me smile was 5d so I’ll go for that.
I used an anagram solver for 23/1 and then said out loud “who the heck is ….” If you really want to know, and have at least ten minutes to spare, my husband is the man to tell you all about him!! I did know the gangsters and the references to 17d
Thanks to Nimrod once again for a proper test of the cryptic grey matter and even more thanks to mc_rapper67 for the blog – rather you than me!
What planet is this guy from? Thought I wasn’t going to get anywhere with this but enjoyed slowly chipping away at it – the masochist that I am. Like crypticsue, I did enjoy getting LADY.
Failed at the end having to go online and reveal 19d and 21a. Don’t know Shakespeare characters and Lady Caroline Lamb was another unknown, so couldn’t parse 27dor the last bit of 17d.
Isn’t the game “Evens and Odds”?
Not sure why clues have reference to 9 and not 24/9. Perhaps somebody can explain.
bizarre
Definitely need a proofreader for my posts. I meant “Odds and Evens”.
I ought to add, after cheating with LAMB, I still struggled to parse it. I thought of FLAMBÉ and was then galvanised by the idea it was something to do with coating in iron (Fe) and never thought “charred sleeves” could refer to the removal of the outer letters. It is Nimrod, so maybe I should have.
Thanks Nimrod and mc_rapper67
Tremendous puzzle. I loved every minute of the struggle, and smiled a lot as the theme emerged.
Nimrod really is the master of the long anagram which retains a plausible surface. His LAST NIGHT I DREAMED I WENT TO MANDERLEY AGAIN sticks in my mind as a favourite.
I gave up having got only two short answers on my first three passes and running out of time. Nimrod is beyond me. I’m afraid.
Ow our heads! That was tough (but fun) fare for a Saturday morning. We really didn’t expect to finish this one, and would certainly not have managed it without the two of us! Pleased to spot the theme pretty early (though we did spend some time looking pop hits called baby face something… Before we hit on the public enemy).
Our little quibbles : we’re not super convinced about hiddens where you have to remove words in the middle (6d), and we’d parsed 16d as: have/admit/hurt+n, since admit=own is a synonym for us.
Thanks Nimrod and particular congratulations to mc_rapper67!
Where to start? I’m not sure mc_rapper’s penny-dropping quite covers it; it was more a long succession of wtfs. The amount that’s stuffed into the only slightly unusual grid is unbelievable.
Lots of trouble doing it on my phone; it crashed every time I landed anywhere on BABY FACE NELSON, so having gone through the same advert 5 times I’m now thoroughly convinced I need a flu jab, and I’m worried I might be pregnant. I found the MAD BAD/DANGEROUS combo very confusing, with the link being provided in the clue wording rather than as part of the clue numbering. I didn’t realise they were one solution until afterwards, so didn’t twig that there was a long anagram, a shame.
I’d heard of Dillinger and Scarface, the other two not that I recall, but the names weren’t that difficult to work out. I didn’t understand any of the Lady Caroline Lamb stuff, nor did I connect the C D F and N with the gangsters. A few others only wrongly or half-parsed too, like thinking NUMBER-ONE was the writer and not getting UC for capital.
@Sil, I thought you meant it was your turn today. A bit of a groan when the puzzle loaded, but it was a much happier experience than last time.
Thanks Nimrod, mc_rapper67
Well I almost got there, but had to look up NYM and couldn’t parse LAMB. Also couldn’t see why lies=IS in 30a.
It wasn’t made any easier by the problems with multi-part entries mentioned by James. At least I didn’t have to suffer the repeated adverts as they hardly ever seem to run on my phone, which is fine by me.
Many thanks to Nimrod for the puzzle and mc_rapper67 for the explanations.
(Just noticed, all the clue numbers in the blog have a D after them, even the across ones.)
I can safely say we didn’t enjoy that at all. Seems more like a general knowledge test (which we failed) than a cryptic. We solved it once we’d spotted a gangster and could look them up, but could parse almost no clues at all. Even now I don’t understand nym (pistol?) and is “odd or even” a game? It would take mo less time to tell you the things we did know in this grid than the ones we didn’t ( all the gangsters, the Byron references for a start). Thank you for the blog – I take my hat off to you for getting there!
James@8, the ad-blocker on my phone spared me the adverts but they might have been light relief amidst the constant restarts. Also a relief to hit a clue which wasn’t cross-referenced elsewhere. Still it was a Nimrod, nuff said. Thanks to him and well done MC_r
Total fail. And, I’m afraid, my first Indy experience to provide me with no pleasure at all. My fault, I’m sure and I can see from the blog and phasing grid that it’s fiendishly clever (though the technology did not help today with the linked words being erratically and confusingly highlighted). Others have clearly enjoyed it. I barely got started which is a rare experience so I think I’ve found my level. I found the cross linkage of so many clues unfathomable and, with a penchant for smooth surfaces, very little to relish.
Thanks, nonetheless, to Nimrod and to MC_r. You earned your corn today.
Epic fail for me. Only three clues solved. Respect to Nimrod, MC_r and everyone else that found their way through.
Phew! Just finished this, with a fair bit of googling, and all parsed except 27d, which I got from the def.
I was so relieved to have a completed grid, I didn’t go back to have another look at it.
Superb as always, JH.
Not good. I am reminded of Ezra Pound’s comment on Finnegans Wake, “Only a revelation from the Divine or a new cure for the clap is worth this effort.”
I started mid-afternoon. I have got six answers.
Thanks for all the comments and feedback – seems like this was a toughie for all of us…
Dunc T at #9, the D’s have been changed to A’s … a lazy cut-n-paste in my blogging spread sheet…
Hovis at #2 – and others – I suspect you are right on the plurality of the game at 13A – maybe a transgression that can be forgiven, against the general mental mayhem of the rest of the puzzle. NB. I trust your ‘which planet?’ comment was aimed at the setter, rather than the blogger ?! (;+>)
Several have mentioned that only 9D was referenced in many clues, rather than 24A/9D – I did wonder about that…and neglected to mention it in the blog. Maybe it was to reduce the number of cross references, or an assumption that once we had deduced what a PE No 1 was, they could all just be referred to as No 1. I don’t think the agencies involved ever specified down to No 2, 3, 4 etc…
Cryptic Sue at #1 – I think I met your other half at a recent Times-Champs-afters at the George? – would be nice to pick his brains on master criminals, or any other subject, once we are all able to meet again safely…
James at #8 (and others) – I solved this on a printed copy and (spoiler alert) we do get advance sight of the puzzles we blog, so I wasn’t solving this late last night/early this morning with ad banners and/or other distractions. I raise my hat to those that managed to do this online on a phone or other device… I need my scribbling space and prefer a piece of A4 in my hand. I only got the CDFN reference at the last minute – my original blog had a request for help there… Good luck with your pregnancy!
Eric W at #10 – ‘Corporal NYM’ is a character in a couple of Shakespeare plays, and is associated with ‘Ancient Pistol’, another character.
Dormouse at #15 – Mr Pound forgot to add ‘…unless it is your turn on the blogging rota.‘
Indeed. My hat goes off to you. I’ll add that I’ve read Finnegans Wake. It was a walk in the park compared to this puzzle.
Well, I got there, thanks to google, morewords, and a fair bit of trying letters to see which didn’t go red. Wouldn’t have had a hope otherwise!
On first parse I got ‘own’ and ‘scar’ – ‘though I thought this just came from ‘cars’ and couldn’t see why the bus was needed.
I started this with my teenage daughter as an intro to cryptics – we quickly decided to jump ship and try yesterday’s instead! (She has since tried her hand at writing her own cryptic clue and would welcome any answers – see yesterday’s blog, thanks.)
After having ‘done’ this crossword and after having read all the comments above, there is only one possible conclusion and that is that John Henderson is in a league of his own.
Compared to this one, midweek’s IO (in the FT) was merely a stroll in the park.
[that’s what I meant, James @8]
But believe it or not, I filled the grid without making any mistakes.
However, after some easy ways in (like 5dn and 8dn), one could find me most of the time sitting behind a screen, googling things etc. Even my criminal friends couldn’t help me.
Now, unlike many others, I am not someone who thinks that means an unacceptable form of ‘cheating’ or, even worse, ‘defeat’.
Actually, as far as I can remember I have never solved a crossword from this setter in a totally clean way – well, perhaps an Enigmatist which I usually solve together with a friend (two know more than one).
And so, nothing new under the sun for me, apart from the fact that this one was incredibly hard.
Ergo, did I like it? Um, yes, I did. Eventually.
In a Nimrod puzzle I will always end up with, say, five clues that I cannot (fully) parse.
Today, there were only two that were beyond me (21ac and 29ac). Quite extraordinary.
Meanwhile, is there really someone out there who can solve a crossword like this without resorting to any form of external help? I can hardly believe that.
But if so, hats off!
And (like Dormouse said) hats off to you too, mc_rapper67.
Finally, thanks to Nimrod for the abundance of Cleverness with a capital C.
Katherine at #19. A brave (or unlucky) move to use this as an intro to cryptics… Reminds me of the time I took my (beginner) kids off skiing on my own and then a fog descended and I ended up taking them down a black run (unintentionally) and nearly missing the last lift back…needless to say many hot chocolates were needed.
I hope she perseveres – her clue on yesterday’s blog was pretty impressive, for a first attempt – or indeed any attempt. Better than I have managed in my 50+ years! I have tried to lead my daughter (now 18) down the cryptic path, but with limited success so far…
I enjoy these convoluted crosswords and got them all sorted in the end. Once I found Scarface the other gangsters were pretty easy and I remembered the Byron quote from Frank Muir’s rendition of it on My Word! Henry V was my ‘O’ level Shakespeare play back in 1963 so I got the Pistol clue straightaway. JH is a past master at misdirection and you always have to think outside the box when doing his puzzles. Couldn’t parse Glottis though. Thanks.
Katherine@19 and mcr@21. I have tried to teach cryptic cross wording to my other half for 23 years with NO success at all!
Well that was awesome. The Indy’s crossword software really does notdo a good job on the multi part clues, does it?
I rather enjoyed the sort of edgy overlap between the themes. And was pleasantly surprised at how the hoodlums’ names floated up from the sea of things you don’t know you’ve remembered.
Defeated by the Lady Caroline Lamb segment. I was cudgelling my poor brain about how 27/26 could go with 5/21 (which latter I did not have and spayed as the LOI).
Chapeau to JH and kudos to mc_rapper67.
At first sight this looked unfathomable and I almost gave up there and then. Still, I’m glad I kept going as I eventually got there unaided, albeit with the (for Nimrod) requisite four or five unparsed. Helped by remembering some 24a 9d names and the famous Lady Caroline Lamb quote. Last in, hoping against hope, was the barely heard of NYM.
The usual two JH’s one after the other. Must be time for an Enigmatist soon. No further comment!
Thanks to Nimrod and mc_rapper67
mc_rapper67 @16 – Mr CS has never been to any crossword related gathering – I do hope we’ll get some in 2021 that he won’t attend either 🙂
Will I be the last to comment? Needed a long lie down between solving with varying degrees of usually avoided assistance. The references to 9 only for me are unforgivable, as I wasted even more time looking for e.g. number one songs
Far too convoluted for us, even after we cheated for a couple of non-themed answers hoping they might give us a toehold for the themed ones, so we gave it up as a bad job.