Guardian Cryptic 28,306 by Anto

by

A quick solve with many fun clues and a couple of trickier parsings – I particularly liked 13ac, 21ac, 8dn, 21dn, and 23dn. Thanks to Anto

 

ACROSS
9 IN CAHOOTS Comedian taken in by old Americans working together (2,7)
HOOT=amusing person=”Comedian”, inside INCAS=”old Americans”
10 UMAMI What a surprise, mother sounding so savoury (5)
homophone of ‘ooh, mummy’=”What a surprise, mother”
11 GIRAFFE Mistake if Ireland abandons this African native (7)
if IR (Ireland) leaves, GAFFE=”mistake” remains
12 EYE MASK Variation in same key will make it really dark (3,4)
anagram/”Variation in”: (same key)*
13 UNITY Harmony is essential to lounge suite’s style (5)
central/”essential” letters from [lo]UN[ge] [su]IT[e’s] [st]Y[le]
14 RED-HANDED Obviously in the wrong when returning gifted wine (3-6)
HANDED RED=”gifted wine”, with the words reversed/”returning”
16 TEN COMMANDMENTS Decimal-based code embedded in old tablets (3,12)
cryptic definition, with the surface hinting at programming code on computing tablets
19 EMPATHISE Understand when I seem confused about route (9)
anagram/”confused” of (I seem)* around PATH=”route”
21 SABLE Black bishop captured in strata­gem to move more material (5)
B (bishop) inside SALE=”strategem to move more material”
22 AIRHEAD Silly sort bearing crown (7)
AIR=a person’s manner or “bearing” + HEAD=”crown”
23 NEW DEAL What timber merchants offer for revised trading terms (3,4)
“What timber merchants offer” can also give NEW DEAL, as ‘deal’ is a type of wood
24 RETRO Old style readers enjoy these rather obvious openings (5)
opening letters to R[eaders] E[njoy] T[hese] R[ather] O[bvious]
25 RISE AGAIN Come back as Nigeria is regenerated (4,5)
anagram of (as Nigeria)*
DOWN
1 DISGRUNTLE Large nudist dancing removes article — and gets put out (10)
anagram/”dancing” of (Large nudist)*, minus one letter A=”article”
2 SCORPION Insect offspring devouring core of rising taproot (8)
not sure about this definition
SCION=”offspring” around the centre/”core” of [ta]PRO[ot] reversed/”rising”
3 SHIFTY Your leader supports action to make capital that’s dubious (6)
leading letter of Y[our], under/supporting: SHIFT=[on a computer keyboard] “action to make capital”
4 SOME A few invest nothing in a common kind of enterprise (4)
O=”nothing” in SME (Small and Medium Enterprises)
5 ASCENDENCE Finish replacing information in a discipline showing effective control (10)
END=”Finish” replacing I=”information” in A SC[I]ENCE=”a discipline”
6 LUKEWARM Not enthused by abstract mural surrounding gardens (8)
anagram/”abstract” of (mural)*, around KEW Gardens in London
7 CANARD Look over firm without starting false rumour (6)
[s]CAN=”Look over” and [h]ARD=”firm”, without their starting letters
8 NICK Cooler trouser cut (4)
triple definition: NICK can mean jail=”Cooler”, or steal=”trouser”, or scratch=”cut”
14 REMAINDERS They wanted to stay, but accept democratic surpluses (10)
REMAINERS wanted to stay in the European Union; around D (democratic)
15 DISNEYLAND Theme park reportedly doesn’t go down in Scotland? (10)
homophone of ‘disna land’, where ‘disna’ means ‘does not’ in Scots
17 ON THE DOT Exact time when sentence ends (2,3,3)
a sentence also ends ON THE DOT, as in a full stop
18 NOBLE GAS One doesn’t react, for example, in Eugene O’Neill’s piece (5,3)
an example of a NOBLE GAS is ‘neon’, or a piece of [Euge]NE O’N[eill]
20 PIRATE Endless number admire bandit at sea (6)
PI=”Endless number”, as the digits of pi are infinitely ‘unpredictable’; plus RATE=”admire”
21 SO WHAT Broadcast Derby? Big deal! (2,4)
SOW=”Broadcast” + HAT=”Derby”
22 ACRE A gang losing wide piece of territory (4)
A CRE[w], losing w for “wide”
23 NOSY Curious how system creates stem (4)
applying “NO SY” to [sy]stem creates “stem”

 

120 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,306 by Anto”

  1. Very quick this morning – FOI was IN CAHOOTS which I thought was lovely but not as guffaw-making as 15d!

    Thansk Anto and manehi!

  3. [At the risk of being VERY puerile, can I just say that I had another reading for 18d where the “one doesn’t” has a royal gas-related connotation that one supposedly does not react to… ]

  5. Thanks both.

    Is Anto American? I don’t want to start off a new homophone debate, but UMAMI as “ooh mammy”?

  6. Thanks manehi for parsing NOBLE GAS.  In my haste I thought ‘for example’ was EG, and that Eugene O’Neill must have written a rarely performed piece called NOBLAS.

    Two outrageous homophones and a large nudist – kudos to Anto.

    [PostMark – do we get another SCORPIONs track?]

  7. Quick and mostly pleasant to solve. DISNEYLAND was exactly how “doesn’t land” was pronounced where I grew up in SW Scotland, so for me, a lovely homophone. UMAMI also works but in an “I suppose so…” sort of way. There were a couple of parsings I hadn’t seen (the key in SHIFTY, which I now like a lot, and AIR in AIRHEAD), so thanks, manehi. I was less happy about I as an abbreviation for Information – there’s been discussion here before about using the first letter of almost any word as a valid abbreviation. And while I mliked the wordplay, a SCORPION is most definitely not an insect, as manehi hinted in the blog (and Tank and Crossbar have noted before me).

    Thanks manehi and Anto.

  9. Agree with others that this was a nice quick solve. I ticked the same as you manehi, esp NICK and NOSY and I also smiled at 15d MaidenBartok@3. Shame about 2d indeed, but I won’t labour it as I suspect others may. When I saw COMMAND under RED HAND, I thought there might have been a paramilitary theme but no. My favourite was LUKEWARM. Thanks manehi for parsing NOBLE GAS and Anto for the pleasant workout. (I’m pleased the criticism of this setter seems to have finally dissipated).

  11. Liked DISNEYLAND (disnae rather than disna) and LUKEWARM, played by Christopher Biggins in Porridge.

    Thanks Anto and Manehi

  12. Did anybody else spot the abbreviation of “‘for example” inside NOBLe gAS and waste half their solving time checking whether Eugene O’Neill wrote a play called No Blas, which I thought might have been a skit on Victor Hugo’s Ruy Blas?

    By the way, once I checked the first (and presumably “most usual”) definition of “insect” in Chambers I saw no problem with SCORPION. Definitely a clue with a sting in its tail…

  13. Not a risk, I just am being very picky. There is a difference between ‘disna’ and ’disnae’. It’s ‘disnae’ in this case. Other than the arthropod the rest is a treat. Thanks to M & A.

  15. Completed without parsing 3, all obvious when explained, so well done Anto – stitched me up good and proper with your misdirections. Good fun today, thanks both.

  16. Lots to like here, SHIFTY especially. I smiled at DISNEYLAND but frowned at UMAMI. And I was another ‘noblas’ victim…

    Beaulieu @5, I’ve no problem with ‘i’ for information, it’s abbreviated that way in what must be hundreds of thousands of computer icons, signposts, guidebooks, etc., surely?

  17. Meant to add, I wasn’t keen on ‘returning’ to swap the words for RED HANDED, I’ve never seen this before and don’t think it works at all.

    Also, thanks to Anto and Maheni.

  18. A very enjoyable puzzle.  I had a tick for 6d LUKEWARM (which I must admit took me a little while even after twigging that it was probably KEW in an anagram of “mural”!).  But 15d DISNEYLAND is definitely clue of the day, and I think a candidate for the hall of fame.

    Many thanks Anto and manehi.

  20. With G something R, four somethings in for 11ac early on, was wondering whether Gorilla might be the African native for a while. Some tricky ones here today, I thought, and not at all sure about the provenance of UMAMI either. Last one in, accompanied by tuts of disapproval…

  23. I  didnt think the clue for CANARD was quite on the money as there were two words without a start.

    Its OK but would Picaroon  have clued it thus

    I’m getting fussy now Anto has been given a Wednesday sot!

  24. [Londoner @22,  Whilst your suggestion might curry favour amongst  fellow solvers, it’s not what the raita of the clue had in mind]

  26. Thanks for the blog, manehi. Once again, I agree with your favourites, with the wistful addition of REMAINDERS and the hilarious DISNEYLAND: I can just hear my husband saying it!

    I’m glad I was in such good company while researching  Eugene O’Neill’s ‘Noblas’. 😉

    I’m with Conrad @16 re I = Information and RED-HANDED.

    I enjoyed this puzzle – thanks to Anto.

     

  27. I’m one who had definitely warmed to Anto, I liked this one today.

    Like others I assumed NOBLAS was a piece by O’Neill, and am I the only one to have (incorrectly) parsed the SHIFT in 3d as a shift at work to make money?

    Thanks Anto and Manehi

  28. essexboy @6: no more SCORPIONS but, as Penfold will surely be aware, there is plenty of other musical fare available, given there were/are bands called GIRAFFE, TEN COMMANDMENTS, AIRHEAD, UMAMI, RED HANDED (Denial) and RISE AGAIN(st) as well as one I actually like, Canterbury based IN CAHOOTS.  And that’s just from the across clues.

    It seems plenty of us Googled noblas without success today and the true parsing completely escaped me.  And, like Lord Jim @18, I found LUKEWARM evaded me for far too long after I’d worked out what the solution must contain.  Rather liked that.  Didn’t like the UMAMI homophone at all but Anto restored his reputation in that particular aspect with DISNEYLAND (and I agree with Sidesalad’s pedantry @17, it should be ‘disnae’ rather than ‘disna’) which is much better.  It’s a comment on how influenced one can be by current news in that I naturally assumed the surface of 14d to be referring to Republicans rather than Remainers.

    SHIFTY is my COTD – now manehi has explained it.  Promoted from a ‘huh?’.  And I love Londoner’s alternative to 10a in 22:

    Thanks Anto and manehi

  29. Thanks Manehi.

    15d brought to mind the classic “What’s the difference between Bing Crosby and Walt Disney? Bing sings but Walt Disney.”

  34. Some fun clues here, especially 1dn, 17dn and 6dn and I’m with Lord Jim @18 in that it took me ages to rearrange MURAL around KEW. But there were loads I couldn’t parse: 9ac, 10ac, 14ac, 3dn (missed the computer key, very clever!), 4dn and 5dn (because I thought ASCENDANCE was the only way to spell it).

    My biological knowledge is so rudimentary I accepted Scorpion straight away. They’re all creepy crawlies aren’t they?

  35. Annoyingly I spotted the neon in the playwright’s name straight away – but couldn’t see how it fitted in a 5,3 clue for ages – doh

    Liked this one – some really good clues all already mentioned.

  38. Conrad@16, Eileen@26 – you’re right about I=information, of course. My brain hadn’t woken up when I wrote my comment!

  40. I didn’t find this as easy as some of the posters; I was constantly misled, though in a nice way.

    I was yet another looking for Eugene O’Neill’s works – I didn’t notice the colourless gas. Like shirl @5; I think the homophone must have been ooh mammy, although Oxford has the pronunciation as ‘marmy’.

    I liked NOBLE GAS, DISNEYLAND, NOSY and SHIFTY.

    Thanks Anto and manehi.

  43. Thanks for explaining all manehi, I’m in good company today as another shift-worker despite not having worked an actual shift for over 20 years, most of which have been spent staring at a keyboard. Similarly didn’t spot the gas and thus very confused (thanks especially), would prefer “swapping” to “returning” in RED HANDED but maybe that makes it too easy, and couldn’t parse ASCENDENCE because like yesyes@34 I couldn’t spell it, d’oh. Plus of course don’t like insect (“Stingy thing’s” may be more correct and offer further chance for misdirection perhaps). But I am a fan of Anto’s very different take on things and enjoyed being led up the garden path many times, especially in SABLE, NOSY and my favourite today PIRATE, thanks Anto.

  46. I thought of “returning” in the sense of a return ticket, London to Brighton, Brighton to London…

    Thank you Anto  for the puzzle and manehi for the blog.

  48. Shiri@5, I am American, and thought of it as “Ooh, mommy”, a good homophone with UMAMI this side the Atlantic. (Perhaps not in New England and Canada, where the o of mommy might be rounded.) I was surprised not to see something steering us towards an American usage.

    I was thinking that offspring in 2 was SON, so couldn’t quite parse it and was hesitant to think that SCORPION could be clued as “insect” but finally had no choice but to enter it.

    Thanks, both.

  49. Several easy clues like ON THE DOT made this straightforward. I liked the Scottish DISNEY  [It reminded me of the old joke about the difference between Bing Crosby and Walt Disney – Bing sings but Walt Disney.] Also liked the “Endless number” in PIRATE and SO WHAT.

    Apart from the erroneous definition of SCORPION, another inaccuracy is that NOBLE GAS(es) are not totally unreactive. XeF6 (Xenon Hexafluoride) is one example of a compound of a noble gas.

    I don’t get the definition in 16A.  I think it’s meant to be a DD. “embedded in old tablets” is the TEN COMMANDMENTS but “decimal-based codes” doesn’t work as far as I can see, since computer code is based on BINARY, often input as HEXADECIMAL. Perhaps BINARY CODED DECIMAL might justify the definition at a push.

  50. Thanks for explaining NOBLE GAS (I see I’m not alone there). Favourites IN CAHOOTS, PIRATE, NEW DEAL, LUKEWARM and of course who disnae like 15d? Thanks Anto for an enjoyable crossword.

  51. An interesting mix of write-ins, wild-guesses parsed afterwards, and a few where I could only half-parse. So a big online-hug to Manehi for help in completing the parsing to SOME (I’d never encountered the term “sme” before), NOBLE GAS (I’m another who was fruitlessly googling O’Neill’s writings) and NOSY – the parsing of which defeated me entirely.
    Lots of fiendish misdirection, lots of satisfying solves, and several laugh out loud moments – of which UMAMI and DISNEYLAND were the best. And it’s definitely disnae, btw.
    I was going to mention the Bing/Walt gag, which always makes me giggle, but I see others have got there already. The same ten year-old kid I heard it from first, also told me this one:
    Guy goes into a Glasgow bakers and asks: “is that a doughnut, or a meringue?”
    And the baker sez, “no you’re right, it’s a doughnut!”
    Thank to A and M

  52. I got there in the end. (Certainly not a quick solve though, spare a thought for us neophytes!) PIRATE was especially nicely misleading.

  53. Hi Wellbeck @51 – thanks for the reminder of that joke.

    I’m reminded of one of my favourite clues, from my classic book: ‘Where Rome couldn’t win, Scots can’t’. (it’s just about on topic. 😉 )

  55. Don’t you hate it when you slog through a puzzle and then come on here to find everyone thought it was easy? Eileen@53 you bring back memories of working my clumsy way through Livy. My Latin teacher was very concerned that Varro was a pork butcher, for some reason or is that the wrong defeat?

  56. I found this trickier than most of you and had too many quibbles with definitions, strange constructions and iffy homophones (as many posters have listed above) to find this truly enjoyable.
    I fail to understand why Chambers lists the loose usage of ’insect’ first. Wiktionary puts it second to the entomologically correct usage and labels it ‘colloquial’ (which is a non-prescriptive way of saying ‘wrong’). I’m fairly sure that the OED describes it as an archaic usage for any old arthropod – an animal ‘in sections’ – but it grates to the modern ear.

  58. I’m with Cookie @46 on the subject of RED HANDED; we are meant to think of the phrase ‘handed red’ (gifted wine) and then reverse it. Not only is ‘returning’ misleading (fairly so, imo) but using ‘swapping’ (as Gazzh @43 points out) would make the clue too easy. This was just one of many innovative wordplay techniques that Anto has used today: NO SY(stem); action to make capital=SHIFT; endless number=PI; EugeNE O’Neill’s piece (I didn’t have to look up Noblas, because it’s one of his more well known works – isn’t it?); Broadcast Derby=SOW HAT; finish replacing information – the list goes on.

    I held myself up with union instead of UNITY (it almost works – ok, it doesn’t work at all). Last one in was CANARD because I was trying to convince myself that BAVARD (gossip) fitted the clue, but of course that didn’t parse either. Enjoyed DISNAE LAND more than any homophone clue in all my years of cryptics, so much so that I forgive UMAMI.

    Thanks Anton for a tour de force, manehi for uncovering the true parsing of NOBLE GAS (so called “because they are so majestic that, in general, they don’t react with anything”) and Eileen for the Battle of Cannae.

  59. I suppose I should own up to rather enjoying Mrs Brown’s Boys, in which Mrs B is addressed (by his real-life wife, I believe) as “Mammy”. So I had no problems with UMAMI, and was amused by DISNAE LAND. Annoyed with myself for not seeing the parsing of NEON, but hey.

    Thanks to Anto for an enjoyable and not too difficult crossword and to manehi for the usual crisp and clear explanations.

  60. Gervase @56. I must admit that I also did a bit of a double take at insect=SCORPION. There was some discussion here about this when Pan clued DADDY-LONG-LEGS as insect in September. (Apparently some invertebrates given that common name are arachnids rather than true insects.) I know it grates, but the ‘loose’ usage of insect is in Chambers and it doesn’t really matter if it’s first, last, archaic or colloquial, the rules say it’s ok in a crossword.

  62. Parsed 8 down as PINK at first. Cooler=PINK (as opposed to Red as hot) Trouser=PINK(s) and to cut is PINK as in Pinking Scissors. But NICK fits perfectly.

  64. hatter @60: I remember that debate quite well.  Fur flew.  In all directions.  Though remarkably courteously.  Did you not end up agreeing that a daddy long legs was a kind of elk? Perhaps we should classify SCORPION similarly.

  66. Thanks Anto and manehi! Really enjoyed this.

    The Scottish pronunciation stuff has reminded me of a true story. A friend of mine was cycle couriering in Glasgow, when he cycled past a burned out building with a colleague. Just the front of building left. His mate said, “aww look at that. What’s that called?” So my friend said “it’s a facade”. His pal responded with “aye, it’s awfa sad!!”

    Sorry to bother. But I thought funny… ?

  67. Shame that “deal” figured in a clue close to the answer with “deal” in it. Plenty of other options available.

  68. You know, soua@63 might actually have hit on the intended interpretation, depending on Anto’s mathematical sophistication.  It is not so much pi is endless as its decimal representation (in base-pi, it is 1.0!).  On the other hand, given some of the looseness here that has already been described, you could just argue that that is Anto’s style.  If that’s so, I don’t consider it a problem, the solver just has to consider each clue in the context of all the others.  Especially as there was a good amount of innovation here too, also already mentioned, as counterbalance.

  69. [Mark @64. Did you not end up agreeing that a daddy long legs was a kind of elk? Well, you know me, anything for a quite life. Anyway, isn’t it in Chambers?]

  70. Shirl @5  “Mammy” (rhymes with Sammy) is almost nonexistent in American speech, and is racist besides.  “Mommy” is very common and unlike “mammy” sounds like the pronunciation of “umami.”

    I don’t think “ascendence” is for real.  It looks horrible.

    Wellbeck @51  I’ve never heard of SME enterprises either.  Is that a common phrase in the UK?

    That said, a dandy puzzle except for the scorpion.  Thanks to Anto and manehi.

  71. Dr. WhatsOn @68. I also thought of PI(n) initially, but then I thought that the N in pin actually stands for number, which would make it a rather poor clue and I decided that Anto had meant pi. But there may be something in what you say.

    [BTW Apologies to Anto for calling him Anton in mine @58. My excuse is that I may have had Anton Ferdinand on my mind after watching his tv programme on Monday, about the aftermath of being racially abused by John Terry during a football match nine years ago. Watch it on iPlayer if you haven’t already seen it.]

  72. Dr Whatson @68  The thought of a numbering system in base pi gives me the staggers!  You have a truly innovative mind.

  73. Valentine at 70: if SME is indeed a common phrase in the UK, it’s certainly one that’s new to me!
    Mind you, I never looked inside an edition of Chambers, either. (And I’m afraid all I know about Websters is that, like Bing and Bob, it’s Morocco-bound.) So I’m probably not the best bod to ask. Maybe some of the more erudite FS commenters will enlighten us both….

  74. Valentine@70 – SME is fairly common in classifying businesses (in my sector anyway) distinguishing between these and larger “corporate” entities – not sure how well known to the man on the street, and I don’t know if you have a similar phrase other than Mom’n’pop shops maybe? (although an SME can be considerably larger these days and I don’t think it is rigidly defined anywhere.) It also appears in Spanish as “PyME”. and @72 +DrWhatsOn@68, isn’t the use of radians rather than degrees to describe angles a sort of pi-based numbering system? Not exactly the same thing I know, but maybe in spirit.

    [PostMark and sheffield hatter: with apologies if this triggers anyone: if a scorpion chooses to identify as an insect rather than an arachnid, surely it must be allowed to do so? This is the Guardian after all!]

  75. Valentine @70 (and Wellbeck @51): yes, SME is a well used acronym here (strictly, Small and/or Medium-Sized Enterprises).  First glance would suggest you don’t have quite the same distinction in the US; 99.9% of your businesses you simply define as small (according to the Small Business Administration, employing 500 or fewer).  SME’s represent the same percentage of businesses in the UK (and across Europe too) and are defined as employing 250 or fewer and/or with revenue of £25m or less.

  76. Thanks Anto, I had lots of fun with IN CAHOOTS, EMPATHISE, CANARD, SO WHAT, and NOSY being among my favourites. I had more problem fully parsing answers than solving the clues. Thanks Manehi for helping with SCORPION, SOME, DISNEYLAND, and NOBLE GAS.

  78. Gazzh @74: SME is a very common term in IT when classifying customers and I’ve heard it used in the US as well in both the SME and SMB (Small/Medium Businesses) and SMM (Small/Medium Manufacturers) contexts.   Most large-cap tech companies won’t deal direct with the REALLY small ones (“Mom’n’Pop” stores) so the SME is usually really the medium-and-above but we still refer to the line-of-business as the SME market internally…

  79. Sheffield hatter@71 refers to the redundancy in “PIN number”, but isn’t the same thing going on with “SME enterprise”?

    [Regarding base-pi.  Yes, that is indeed a wild one, granted, but e is the other familiar transcendental number, and logarithms to base e are the bread-and-butter of a lot of mathematics]

  80. PIN numbers are especially common near the  River Avon (“avon” being the Welsh word for “river”, as discussed in a recent fifteensquared).

     

  81. Valentine @70/80:  Greetings to the folks of Avon Mountain (see, I remembered 🙂  )

    When we in the UK hear Americans say ‘Mommy’, it sounds to us like mammy, or possibly mah-mee – I think that’s what Shirl was getting at.  It reminds me of when Jim Courier got into an argument with a UK tennis commentator about how to say the first o in Djokovich.  Although neither of them could see it, the dispute was actually not so much about Serbian, but about the difference between RP and standard American pronunciation of ‘long’ and ‘short’ O’s.  But I think baerchen’s pointing out (@44) of Anto’s Irish roots resolves the UMAMI homophone question nicely.

  82. [Katherine @61, I can’t find any reference, but thank you for introducing me to PDQ Bach’s œuvre, which I find includes the Erotica Variations and Fanfare for the Common Cold.

    Further research on NOBLAS reveals this from the Urban Dictionary (apparently most people from Cannock are noblas) and the Noblas Festival (3 days of freedom, trance music, art, psychedelic culture, and a lot of blue sea all around) coincidentally held on a stretch of private beach on Sinai owned by distant cousins of the O’Neill family.  This performance may give a flavour – though I suspect it’s not in the same league as IN CAHOOTS  😉 ]

  83. Quick but very enjoyable solve.  I loved NOSY UNITY and NOBLE GAS.

    And I’m still chuckling at all the follow-ups on Scottish and American pronunciation!

    Thanks Anto and manehi.

  84. [essexboy @82: the O’Neills are known for exhibiting generous and honourable behaviour as befits their status.  It’s NOBLAS oblige…  I’ll get my coat…]

  86. Got through this readily enough, and several bits likable, but lots of quibbles/grouses too and ultimately came away like my COTD: LUKEWARM at best. In fact my least enjoyed solve in some time, and another ride on the grumpy bus for me… sounds like Gervase is on for a few stops too, so at least I’ve some company. Too much to delve into, so will just touch on a couple.

    Regardless of Chambers, insect/SCORPION really bugs me (ok, at least I can laugh about it). It earned listing, as “loose” defn, because so many misuse it… but that’s license for continued misuse?!… grrrrrr… circular reasoning. And unnecessary… several cluing options could avoid this bugaboo.

    Perhaps just me, but didn’t care for the overtones in the surface for SABLE; things are so tense over here this year, even little things like this stand out to me. Surely unintentional… but do wish setter/editor had found another wording.

    Ah well, thx anyway to our setter for the effort, and glad others enjoyed. Thx also to our blogger (nicely done) & commenters (enjoyably discussed). Hoping for a smoother ride tomorrow…

  87. OddOtter @86 & Hermano @87: I don’t want to be insensitive, and fully accept that many of our community in the US have lived in a febrile environment in so many ways and for so long, but I feel Anto needs some defence with regard to SABLE.  I can only assume it is the initial adjective- the definition – that is causing the discomfort, presumably in association with being captured.  To me, this was chess-referencing at the beginning and then a bit vague at the end but with a perfectly valid answer and clue elements (sale/b=bishop) with no negative connotations.  I’ve just tested the clue on my three non-cruciverbal family members and each plumped straight for the chess interpretation.  I am still struggling to interpret it in a way that could be offensive to US solvers. This seems a little like the situation earlier in the year where Tramp clued ‘slavering’ to the discomfort of those who didn’t like the first five letters of the word appearing together

  88. [essexboy @82. Thanks for the research into PDQ Bach (and thanks to Katherine @61 for the heads up) and the O’Neill oeuvre. I wonder if this SCION of the Bach family ever contemplated adapting NOBLAS as an oratorio?]

  89. I failed to parse quite a few clues in this puzzle and jumped to the conclusion that it was Anto’s fault, but then I came here and read the correct parsings. It turns out that almost all of the failed parsings were my fault, and in fact some of the ones I missed are among the cleverer clues. So I apologize to Anto for pre-emptively blaming him.

    The only one I still don’t like is 14ac (RED-HANDED), but I only dislike it a little, and there are lots of others that I like quite a lot.

     

  90. The Disneyland solution reminds me of Rob, a Scot I ply golf with, who says he has a special ‘Disney club’ – sometimes it goes straight but mostly it disnae

  91. OddOtter @86 & Hermano @87: I have to concur with what Mark said @88. This was another of Anto’s clever clues, with ‘strata­gem to move more material’ a witty straight-but-slightly-cryptic definition of SALE and the obvious B from bishop, and as Mark points out, a surface plucked from a chess magazine. I obviously can’t appreciate how tense it might have been for you in Trump’s America this year, so (like Mark) I am struggling to see how this clue could have caused such a reaction. Is ‘black’ such an incendiary word these days?

    OddOtter – you’re usually very insightful and illuminating in your contributions here (sorry, Hernando, I’m not so familiar with your name): would either of you care to explain a little more?

  92. PostMark @88: As a US solver I find nothing offensive about SABLE in the slightest. The current atmosphere has many searching out ways to be offended; this actually trivializes true problems with race relations.

  93. Thanks Anto and manehi

    I’ve not posted yet as it’s all been said, but recent posts have moved me to point out that SABLE is the heraldic term for “black”. see here.

  94. By chance I got 3d in a different way to the blogger – and doubtless everyone else. I started with the obvious last letter then thought of all possibilities above it, finally landing on ‘action to make capital’ as being ‘shift’ in the session at work to make money sense

  95. Tony Santucci@93. Very well said. I agree absolutely. I’ve hovered over the post button for too long, but it’s too easy to avoid these sensitive issues, and I couldn’t agree with you more.

  96. Tony @93: thanks for that.  Good to have a reason to exchange messages with you (despite the topic) given that timing doesn’t always work in our favour (and trish @96, well done on hitting Post.  Publish and be damned as they say!)

  98. sh @92, thanks for the kind words at the end… I will try to elucidate.  Pardon my prolixity I think it a challenging (yet important) concept to fully communicate.  FYI, all below is specifically regarding this topic, so for readers who don’t care either way, you can skip it.

    PostMark, no, this isn’t simply about the first word, nor the defn… as mentioned it’s about the surface… and like I said, “surely unintentional”, so I’m not accusing Anto or the editor of anything, just wishing for awareness of how things can be perceived in ways not intended.  And to sh @92’s query, no, “black” is not inherently incendiary… but how we use racial terms potentially is.

    In this case, yes, first part of surface reads as chess ref… yet second clearly does not, so how to take the surface as a whole?  To me it reads as a headline re criminal activity… perhaps retail fraud or (perhaps worse) some sort of illicit trafficking.  Once in that realm, any cover provided by the chess metaphor is lost; “bishop” is a person, and “black” a racial ref.  But surely race of suspect should be irrelevant (lacking other context that the case is inherently racial), so why mention it?  A headline that does so inherently (even if unintentionally) implies race (in this case blackness) of suspect somehow has importance, and thus (to me) creates a negative connotation with respect to blackness and criminality.  This sort of thing, used elsewhere, is a sort of dog whistle… the kind used all too often in recent years, and just as often waved away as a joke or as unintended, despite the fact it’s hard to put said genie back in bottle.

    Again, not at ALL trying to say this was Anto’s intent (would be truly shocked if it were).  Just trying to point out that, among multiple ways to read the surface, at least some might be received negatively by some readers, esp given current heightened tensions/sensitivities.  For my part, though race as commenter shouldn’t matter either, I’ll offer I’m not black (though have felt the sting of bias in other contexts).  Yet part of the strength/hope I see in BLM is its broad support among all races/ethnicities, and the increased awareness that has come with it.  FYI, I was also a bit pained during recent discussions that used the term “tar baby”; research online shows significant debate re whether it is/isn’t racially charged… but for at least some (and in at least some refs, e.g. lexico) it is in fact viewed as a negative racial slur.  Just as we’re encouraged to consider scorpion/insect because at least one ref includes it as a lesser meaning, could we not also consider that some language might be problematic to some readers, even if not specifically to ourselves?

    As ever in this forum, I state this as just my own opinion (offered in response to a specific request)… others are free to differ (and no doubt will).

  99. [PostMark @88. A little clarification. It was not the first five letters on their own that caused my (poorly expressed, for which I later apologised) visceral reaction. it was their juxtaposition with the name of John Barnes. If anyone doesn’t know who he is, and the dreadful abuse he endured on the field, this wouldn’t make sense.]

  100. [OddOtter- thanks for the very detailed and personal account of your reaction to this clue. Obviously I’m not going to say you are wrong in having the reactions you do, and I disagree with Tony Santucci’s suggestion that you have been “searching out ways to be offended”. But it does show the difference in our experiences that you should see “bishop” is a person, “black” a racial ref, a headline re criminal activity… perhaps retail fraud or (perhaps worse) some sort of illicit trafficking, when Mark and I, and probably others here, see nothing more than an allusion to a (slightly weird) game of chess.

    It’s interesting that you should mention the Tar Baby story that came up a couple of weeks ago in the context of a clue which I cannot just now recall. To me it evoked memories of the (mostly fairly harmless) conflict between cheeky Brer Rabbit and the unusually dim Brer Fox, remembered from many years ago. But I can see how there might be some people who could find the Tar Baby evocative of something else altogether.

    Changing the subject slightly, I don’t know if you will have seen a story on the Guardian website, written in advance of the broadcast on BBC this Monday of a programme about a black footballer being racially abused by another player on the pitch in 2011. (I referred to it briefly in #71). If you’re interested, you can read the story here; I found it very moving.]

  101. [TassieTim – thanks for the reminder about that clue –  here’s a link to the puzzle where this occurred; your comment was #2. From the way the clue is constructed it is clear that Tramp has gone from SLAVERING to dribbling to John Barnes, who was renowned first and foremost for his skill with the ball at his feet. It is unfortunate that it caused the reaction that it did with you. I haven’t revisited the discussion below the blog, but I seem to recall that the focus was on the different origins of slavering and slavery. Which doesn’t help you with your visceral reaction, of course.

    I never saw Barnes play except on TV, though as he played for Watford it is quite possible that some of the abuse he received would have been from my fellow Luton supporters. All Watford players received abuse from us, of course, and as both Luton and Watford have proud records for employing a high proportion of black players I would hope he would not have been abused by us on that score. If he was, I would say that would be something the club and supporters should be ashamed of.]

  102. Thanks OddOtter @99 for explaining.

    My take on it is that the surface for 21a, unlike many others in this puzzle, isn’t terribly good.  The combination of ‘black’, ‘bishop’, ‘captured’ and ‘stratagem’ lead you down the chess path – and some might say that’s good misdirection – but then the remainder of the clue, as you point out, doesn’t make sense when applied to chess.

    But at the same time that remainder (‘to move more material’) is not strong enough to switch our minds (yours excepted!) to a convincing alternative scenario.  So most of us, including sh, PostMark, and PostMark’s family members, still read it as chess-related even though the last bit was gobbledygook.

    And that’s probably why nobody worried – it’s hard to feel hurt by gobbledygook!

    Having seen your reading – the illicit trafficking scenario – I get why you objected to the overtones.  However it would have been a lot worse if it was ‘Black bishop involved in stratagem to move more material’ – perhaps that was the original version, and the editor changed it – spoiling the coherence of the surface, but (almost) pre-empting any criticism.

    As sh says, your insights are always illuminating and thought-provoking.

  103. [sh @101: Thanks for the understanding (and also for the link… look forward to reading it fully when I have time).  All this (and the tar baby discussion in particular) reminds me of how surprised I was decades ago when traveling in Nepal as a young person, and observed swastikas liberally used as decorative elements on many homes and other buildings.  Only then did I learn how this ancient symbol of good luck (the name of which derives from Sanskrit for “conducive to well-being”) had been so thoroughly and horribly tainted, but mostly just in western cultures and only very recently in terms of human history.  Just goes to show how important context can be, and how something innocuous to some can be disturbing to others.]

  105. Otter, sh, eb and others: thanks to OddOtter for coming back and setting out your thoughts in depth.  I do see how you arrived at your concerns.  One thing that is clear from your posts on here is that you have a deeply analytical mind.  On this occasion, due to the point essexboy makes so well @103, I think you’ve been lead astray by the rather poor second half of the surface.  As I observed, it rather peters out after a perfectly decent chess-oriented opening and it certainly didn’t earn a tick for surface (and folk here will know that I put a lot of store by good surfaces).  By trying to analyse the whole – as you say – you’ve been led up paths that probably never occurred to the setter.  I was trying to recall a recent clue from a Shed crossword (#28278) that I criticised for poor surfaces; it came to mind when this debate developed.  “Heartless darkness I tempt to return, finding blood filters (9)”  (GLOMERULI).  The first part of the clue took me straight to Conrad and Heart of Darkness with a nod to Apocalypse Now.  Part of my complaint about the crossword was that the last three words didn’t follow (though they were necessary to complete the clue) and they were, frankly, nonsensical which is similar to the situation with SABLE.  So I suspect Anto is guilty of some clumsiness rather than blundering into insensitivity.

    TassieTim @100: I didn’t reference you in my earlier comment and knew I was somewhat abbreviating the argument – and most certainly recall your clarification and subsequent message to Neil.  There was considerable feeling expressed on that occasion throughout the blog and, for me, there was similarity to today insofar as we solvers can occasionally read far more into a clue than was ever intended by the setter.

  107. I understand the potential for ambiguity in 21a.

    I did initially read the entire surface as relevant to chess – “material” is a chess term referring to pieces belonging to a player.

  109. manehi – I agree with your initial reading. I’m not as appreciative of good surfaces as Mark, because I know how difficult it can be for my brain to drop the initial (surface) reading sufficiently to read the cryptic content. My take on the clue (see #92) was formed by deconstructing it as I read, but on reading it again, ‘material’ clearly does fit the chess metaphor as you say, if a little clumsily.

  113. PostMark @106, thanks for your additional thoughts and consideration.

    And manehi, MANY thanks for further elucidation re 21a.  It is a comfort to know there is indeed a fully chess-oriented reading (even if not necessarily familiar to the average reader), thus reinforcing that any alternate reading is at worst accidental.  Still personally think diligent editing might have caught/avoided the possible negative take, but acknowledge others feel differently.

    And want to thank all for thoughtful consideration and feedback re my views, without allowing things to tip into incivility.  Hugely appreciated.

  114. 8d I haven’t come across “trouser” meaning “steal” before and indeed one of Wiki’s definitions is “to legally remove funds from an organisation for personal use”. I’ve normally come across it in the context of someone pocketing an unfeasibly large sum for not very much work or simply putting money in a trouser pocket. My 1990 Chambers doesn’t recognise it as anything other than, in the plural, an item of clothing. As a result DNF for me.

  115. What the heck, one last post!  Having originally started this debate by coming to Anto’s defence, and then re-read my comment @106, I don’t think “what essexboy says” really does justice to the setter – should he, by chance, look at today’s blog.  Thanks to enlightenment from manehi – I simply had no idea about the chess-related meaning of ‘material’ – far from having a poor surface that peters out with a second half that is “frankly nonsensical”, I now realise it’s actually very clever indeed.  Quite beautiful and right up there with SHIFTY as a result.  Apologies and chapeau to Anto.  All’s well that ends well.  😀

  116. On a boring but factual note, the Scottish pun to clue DISNEYLAND has appeared similarly at least once before. Bannsider (Times crossword editor, Richard Rogan) used it in an Indy puzzle.

  117. Mrs. E and I found this to be a mixed bag.

    There were some brilliant clues e.g. for SHIFTY, but I’m not so sure about a few others.

    As for having scorpion as an insect – a mere scientific detail of course – I wonder what some would think about a setter’s confusing a Shakespeare character’s rôle, for instance?

  118. Katherine@61, Indeed, NOBLAS was composed by PDQ Bach, but the libretto, long lost but unfortunately not long enough, was written by his very distant cousin, UGN Bach-O’Neill.

  119. Re UMAMI, I always pronounce it with a short A, having tried to learn Japanese at one time. So the MAMMY homophone works for me. As does DISNAE LAND.

  120. The ‘material’ reference in the chess clue isn’t great, since the use of material in chess to mean ‘pieces and pawns’ is limited to expressions like ‘take material’, ‘win on material’, ‘be ahead on material’, and so forth. One doesn’t speak of moving material. Still, I think it’s pretty clear that this use of ‘material’ is what the setter had in mind in the surface of the clue.

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