Guardian Cryptic 28,320 by Paul

72 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,320 by Paul”

1. I thought this was a lot of fun.

   Our blogger didn’t mention it, so now I’m wondering re: 21a whether the Trojans brand is known in the UK. Paul must have known of them, right? Brilliant clue, whether accidental or intentional.

2. I loved that too, and found myself very much on Paul’s wavelength. The A TO B had escaped me, I never see those. And I failed to spot that REDIC is CIDER reversed, though I had PATE. Duh! Many thanks to Andrew for these and all the explanations, and to Paul for the great start to Friday.

3. Same experience as manehi: a few quickies, followed by slower progress.

   Last one in was EYESTRAIN – I had to trawl through the alphabet for the second letter, and there it was almost at the end.

   __MEAD_ and ADORABLE took far too long, too. I was thinking only of S and Y for the ending of the former.

   SAUCE as slang – I don’t think I ever heard it used in Britain – isn’t it N American, or perhaps just Canadian?

   DR W @1: I don’t think I know TROJANS in the UK – do I recall them as a brand of prophylactics in N America?

   Thanks Manehi and Paul

4. Always enjoy the challenge served up by Paul. Did not know PRIAPISM, got it eventually after googling Trojan king.

   Favourites were KICK-START, TAGINE, and STAIRCASE.

   Thanks to Andrew and Paul!

5. A STOUT challenge in places, but was able to RIDE OUT the rough spots, and eventually ROSE up the STAIRCASE to the highest PLATEAU to “drink” the… um… LIMEADE?… from the CHALICE of success. I.e solved all, parsed most, and felt satisfied given the difficulty 🙂 Not quite as fun for me as yesterday, but still crafty and enjoyable. COTD: TAGINE, partly for the clue, but mainly because it’s a delightful dish I’ve made before (tho not in many years).

   Props to setter, blogger, and commenters!

6. Dave Ellison@3 That’s right.

7. Dave Ellison: Here in the US, I primarily know SAUCE fr/the phrase “on the sauce”… a euphemism alcoholism.

8. Hard work and some lovely surfaces as always.

   I did baulk over TAGINE for a while because I’ve always spelt it TAJINE after the name of the thing it is made in but I see both are acceptable.

   Dave Ellison @3 OddOtter @7: I’ve certainly used the word SAUCE in the UK when out for a sherbet or three with friends but I did spend 5 years in the US so I’m now wondering if I’ve only used it since being back. As for TROJANS, that’s another story entirely…

   Thanks Paul and Manehi!

9. An enjoyable start for me but ran out of possible connotations in the SW

10. ,,, and 21a too hard for me!

11. I’d forgotten that sauce could be slang for drink… Did anyone else put in SOUSE, which fits the crossers and whose definitions include “to get drunk” and “pickled meat” and “pickling liquid” (either of which is more or less equivalent to “relish”)?
    [PS, I’ve said it before, quite recently, but in case you missed it, STOUT and PORTER are not the same. Stout wrote Before Midnight. Porter wrote Night and Day.]

12. Yes, a tough, but enjoyable workout. As a racing man, murder backwards to give RED RUM (the dam was Mared and the sire Quorum) was a gimme.

    Thanks Paul and Manehi

    [I’ve got it! I’ve got it! The pellet with the poison’s in the vessel with the pestle; the chalice from the palace has the brew that is true! Right?]

13. Was helped by the theme.
    Did not parse AUTOBUS, EYESTRAIN
    Liked PRIAPISM, CAMPBELL, LIMEADE, RED RUM, ADORABLE
    New PARAQUAT, COLON (Panama)

    Thanks, B+S

14. Another brilliant puzzle based on a very simple theme. Haven’t seen RED RUM for a while but it fits in with the theme nicely. My favourites were PARAQUAT, TAGINE, PRIAPISM, CAMERA and the hilarious CAMPBELL. For me, this is Paul at his best, witty and accessible with the requisite amount of effort. Ta to manehi for A to B which escaped me as well.

15. A very satisfying puzzle, with much to relish in the solving. Only one clue solved at first pass (CAMPBELL), and then a relentless progression until the last two (BEAU and ROSE – it’s always those little guys that hold out to the end). I rank this the best puzzle in quite a while.

16. [Pedro @10: Fnar, fnar]

17. Like MaidenBartok@8 I found this hard work, to say the least, but got there in the end. Lots of great clues, for me particularly EYESTRAIN, ADORABLE, CAMPBELL and PLATEAU. Many thanks to Paul and manehi.

18. Thanks Andrew , reviewing the puzzle it was enjoyable apart from all those drink clues!
    I spent so long trying to get 21a that I was exhausted. I’d switch to the next clue and that had drink in it etc etc etc – lost patience thinking of drinks having just failed on the same thing.
    I revealed the acrosses in the SE corner once 21a was out via reveal (just needed to guess the 3rd letter). The whole clue was useless to me because I even missed “sip”! It was down there with Juan de Fuca from yesterday. It felt like 4 crosswords, one per corner, so did not flow! 4 starts!

19. “Member’s problem”. Only Paul….!

20. Minor quibble: Stout and porter, although both beers aren’t the same thing.

21. Excellent. Hard, but all possible and parsable and nothing too obscure, unlike a few yesterday.

    Plenty to like. I loved the surface for ROSE (some may agree!) and PRIAPISM was a classic.

    Thanks to Paul and manehi

22. I gave up with a few unsolved. It didn’t help that I had SQUASH instead of SCOTCH. Many thanks to setter and blogger.

23. At first couldn’t see at all where to start but found a few easier ones and made a bit of progress. Then it got really difficult especially the southwest corner – though I could have kicked myself for not getting CAMPBELL after getting LIMEADE.

    Needed a fair bit of help parsing some even those I managed to get (guess).

    Loved PRIAPISM – remembered doing a play where I was Priam.

    Thanks to Paul and menthe

24. Sorry manehi

25. Lots of little lightbulb moments as I slowly worked my way around, with the NE corner last to yield, not really familiar with AUTOBUS. And the ever expected Paulism with PRIAPISM sticking out like a sore thumb!

26. Difficult to start, so I avoided most of the drink clues at the beginning – too many possibilities. Once solved, it looks a lot easier (but that’s true for many crossies).

    I particularly liked the clues for PLATEAU and PRIAPISM.

    [One of my friends had a rather gorgeous young wife and she went to Canada where she started to be a teacher. She couldn’t understand why all the children laughed when she said: “Has anyone got a rubber?”]

    Thanks drunk Paul and very awake manehi.

27. Lovely clues, horrible grid.

28. Robi@26

    I taught for a while in an international school in Japan. I too caused convulsions when I asked a pupil “Have you got a rubber?” (I like to think I was gorgeous then – but it was a long time ago and I may be misremembering.)

29. [Robi@26. Happened to me too, on my first day as Teaching Assistant at university, but was US not Canada. People think I’m making it up when I tell that story. Interesting, but not surprising on reflection, that it could happen to others. Although in my case, it was the young women who laughed; the young men reached for their back pockets.]

30. A sporadic solve for me. I seemed to get inspiration in clusters, with bursts of activity punctuated by bouts of head-scratching.

    Struggled with 6a because I didn’t read the accent in my head, and although 27a was clear once I identified the def, I couldn’t parse it at all.

    Loved CAMPBELL and PLATEAU, and also PRIAPISM, but as it was Paul, my thoughts were immediately led in the right direction. A different setter might have befuddled me for longer.

31. [Robi @26, Fiona Anne @28 & Dr WhatsOn @29: along associated lines, there has been considerable potential for both embarrassment and mirth due to the fact that Durex – a well known UK but now international brand name for the product in question – was a brand name for adhesive tape in Australia and had become the generic category name. I don’t believe it’s in use any longer but plenty of opportunity for confusion in the past.]

32. Fiona Anne@23: Re “Thanks to Paul and menthe” – perhaps you were following the theme and thinking of creme de menthe?

33. Very enjoyable puzzle and for Paul relatively easy. I enjoyed the double anagram of PRO RATA. Other favourites were BEAU, so simple, and LIMEADE because it brings back memories – does anyone sell it anymore? PRIAPISM is getting all the attention and laughs but probably shouldn’t as, I believe, it can be quite painful. I wonder who will be up for the Prize?

34. Me @ 33 How could I forget to thank Paul and manahi; so, many thanks both!!!

35. It may be strange but has this puzzle been re-cycled from eons ago? Some of the clues/answers seem familiar. Maybe just a senior moment! Anyway enjoyed it and thanks to blogger

36. [Robi @26 and others: Concerning rubbers: when my wife was teaching businessmen English in France she provoked no little hilarity when she happened to mention that in England sausages were made with preservatives (préservatif = condom)]

37. SPanza @33: I can’t tell if the phrasing of your final sentence is meant to achieve what it does, when juxtapositioned with its predecessor but it brought a smile to this schoolboy mind. 😀

    Cedric @35: I’m not sure whether your sense of deja vu may have been triggered by today’s stand out clue/solution. The similar ‘priapic’ came up in an Imogen in May so it certainly rang bells with me.

38. Top half went in easily, though lower down was much tougher – though I was adept at second-guessing Paul with PRIAPISM.

    Thanks Langbard @20, wondered how long it would be before the stout / porter distinction came up! But it’s quite a fine nuance and I think we can let Paul off. My problem was with SAUCE, a very diffident solve for me as I didn’t know the ‘drink’ definition.

39. [PostMark @31: “I don’t believe it’s in use any longer…” Fnar]

40. SPanza@33 (speaking for myself at least) the laughs are about the double meaning of Trojan, not the condition.

41. Thanks, Paul and manehi, for a good puzzle on Friday morning.

    DOVER makes a change from RIO as a port.

    How is “on the counter” = “reversed”?

    Penfold @12 No! The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison! The flagon with the dragon holds the brew that is true!

42. Valentine@41: “On the counter” implies going back, e.g. a counter-punch. But I can’t think of an example of the use of “on the counter” as a phrase.

43. I agree with Keith Long @27 about the grid: that black maze crawling through the middle is not very pretty at all.

    Found the puzzle quite difficult but still enjoyable. I especially like the container indicators in 8a and 21a; rather less enthusiastic about the indirect anagram in 17d.

    On a more general point: isn’t five double definitions in one puzzle a bit much? I vaguely recall having read somewhere that some crossword editors won’t allow more than two hidden answers per puzzle; maybe a similar limit should be imposed on the dd. At least hiddens allow for a change of direction.

    Thanks to Paul and manehi.

44. I enjoyed this one, and thought it had a pleasing mix of things. I do wonder if anyone else out there shared my initial parsing of 16ac which, given that it was Paul, had me convinced that ‘warning to Scottish clan’ was FORE/S/KIN. I just couldn’t work out how it could possibly mean ‘theatrical’, apart from some rather convoluted possible thinking on my behalf. (There are apparently two Australian comedians who perform in an act known as ‘Puppetry of the Penis (The Ancient Art of Genital Origami) but that really seemed to be, er, stretching it)

    So I was doubly pleased by the time I solved 21ac and got the very amusing solution…

    Sorry for lowering the tone, but I suppose that’s what you get with Paul 🙂

45. Very enjoyable as noted by many – a slow reveal with nothing too obscure.
    Can anyone say what the difference is between porter and stout? They’ve always been synonymous in my life although back in the day there was “the pint of plain” which was definitely porter but not known as stout – I think.

    [I wanted to insert a link, but for some reason that facility, along with Italics, Bold etc doesn’t seem to be available – have things changed or is the problem at my end?]
    [Here’s the link anyway
    https://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/Poetry/FlannOBrien.html
    ]

46. drofle @42 How about “Marcus Rashford scored a great goal on the counter”?

47. Seasonally appropriate and lots of fun. I found it quite hard in places. ADORABLE was tough to spot, all the bits being somewhat vague. I loved CAMPBELL, PARAQUAT and STAIRCASE. TARANTINO also nicely done. I checked the Wiki entry for the movie and Hitchcock does appear early in the film but, sadly, he’s not the second character.
    Isn’t there a problem with EYESTRAIN as written? YES (fine) is donning ETRAIN (English school), isn’t it? The clue implies the opposite to me.

    Sláinte, Paul and manehi

48. Petert@46 – Yes indeed. I was just trying to think of examples myself.

49. [ SPanza: Haven’t purchased limeade in decades, but make it at home all the time! Just a few simple ingredients in the proper proportions… ]

    [ Valentine: But there’s been a change: they broke the chalice from the palace!… Get it? Got it?! Good! 🙂 ]

50. [ Alphalpha: It’s a site issue that’s being worked on (see http://www.fifteensquared.net/2020/12/15/comments/) ]

    phitonelly re EYESTRAIN: Agree, the “dons” grammar is unusual… but have seen the like previously. I think it can work ala Yoda-speak, e.g. “Luke the force uses” (or w/implied punctuation made explicit “Luke, the force, uses”). Alternately, we usually think of don as “put over”, so the item is seen on the outside… but if you look at someone who dons a tie you still see them all around the tie, not the tie all around them (i.e. dons=sports=features rather than dons=”puts on”=”has over”).

51. gofirstmate: 17d does indeed use an indirect anagram. I recall reading a discussion which held indirection itself isn’t an issue, but the solution space for indirect anagrams in particular is often so large as to be unfair, due to number of potential fodders multiplied by number of permutations therein. If the solution space is constrained somehow, it can be ok (e.g. indirection w/letter removal or swapping is occasionally seen). Here I presume our setter felt the chestnut of “myself” referring to setter provided sufficient constraint on the fodder options to justify use of indirection. Your own mileage, of course, may vary…

52. Hi OddOtter @50, valiant attempts to justify 27, but I still don’t buy it. I can see the Yoda-speak argument if I squint really hard, but I’d hate to think Paul is using that idea. And I still think the tie’s on the outside, not the other way round 🙂

53. Stout was originally “stout porter”, ie a porter that was stronger in alcohol than your normal porter. Porter went out of fashion, leaving stout holding the stage. Then brewers started recreating older beer styles and porter made a comeback. Nowadays it is not uncommon to find a brewery making both a porter and a stout, but the stout is the weaker of the two. (Guinness for example have recreated on old recipe for West Indies Porter, which at 6% is considerably stronger than their regular stout.) So those who say that porter=STOUT is wrong are both right and wrong. And by my reckoning the clue is fine.

54. gofirstmate @43. I agree with you about double definitions. Paul’s can be especially fiendish (I struggled for days with last Saturday’s prize, partly because of his DDs). I think he should be limited to just two of them per year.

    I don’t have a problem with the indirect anagram in PLATEAU, for the ‘chestnut’ reason given by OddOtter @51, and also because the fodder is written at the top of the puzzle! 🙂

55. [OddOtter @49 yes indeed and in summer we make lots of it…….. but I was brought up in a south London suburb where the Corona drinks van came around weekly and sold the most delicious ultra fizzy Cream soda and Limeade. Probably mostly chemicals they were a wonderful drink after street cricket and football. Those were the days … I thinK!]

56. phitonelly: Fair enough… sometimes a clue just doesn’t sit well and there’s no SKIRTING it 😉 The only other explication I can offer is from hardcopy Chambers (ca ’80s) which in addition to “to do or put on” has “to assume”; I think the latter is in the sense of “to take on” or “acquire” so might work here?

57. [ SPanza: Such memories are indeed special & indelible, aren’t they? For me, during Michigan summers, it was the ice cream truck that came round every week or two… we’d hear the music blocks away and all scatter home to beg change to buy some crazy colored frozen treat. ]

58. [Penfold@12. Thankyou for RED RUM’s lineage. I have no interest in race horses but am often tickled by the cleverness of some of their cryptic, punning or homophonic names.]

    Quibble with definition of ASLEEP – silent in the dormitory. As someone who’s slept in one, the other sleepers were often noisily snoring or ranting and raving.

59. Oops, Paddymelon was talking in her sleep.

60. I can’t find this week’s prize! Any suggestions?

61. SPanza@60 It’s probably the Christmas Prize by Masquerade and will have an unconventional form that the crossword software cannot handle. There is usually a pdf version somewhere

62. It’s here: https://crosswords-static.guim.co.uk/gdn.cryptic.20201219.pdf

63. Red rum always reminds me of the shining. Great puzzle. Thanks Paul and manehi.

64. Dave Ellison@62 Thanks for the hint, but that version appears to be missing instructions and a clue. This link worked better:

    https://uploads.guim.co.uk/2020/12/15/Xmas_Jumbo_Cryptic_2020_web.pdf

65. [Gayle @58 A 5 year-old mare had her first race last month. Owned by the Queen, but I don’t know who came up with the name, by Mount Nelson out of Romantic Dream, she’s called Hamilton’s Fantasy.]

66. [Penfold @65 I didn’t know the history, but took a punt and googled Lord Nelson and Lady Hamilton. Classic!]

67. Too tough for me, but fun as far as it got…I think the difficulty lay not in the difficulty of the words but the sheer volume of synonyms for ‘drink’ … which I’m sure was Paul’s intention…on 22d I started with ‘Heavy’ which works for me (you can argue that it’s not a perfect synonym for overweight, but I think it works in common parlance) as in the (scottish?) ’Ill have a pint of heavy’ for a dark beer/Porter.

    Thanks Paul and manehi.

68. Stuart @67. Nice try! But Scottish ‘heavy’ is nothing like a porter.

69. Samuel Beckett has no opinion on the issue, but as this is the only actual joke I know of in his oeuvre, I thought y’all might enjoy it:

    “why did the barmaid champagne?” he said. “do you give it up?”
    “yes,” said celia.
    “because the stout porter bitter,” said murphy.

70. [Dr W @64 How did you find that? I just hacked the date from last weeks Prize puzzles pdf link]

71. [Awfidius @69: 🙂 (‘Champagne for my real friends! And real pain for my sham friends.’)]

72. Thanks Sheffield Hatter@53

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