Guardian Cryptic 28,337 by Qaos

by

The puzzle may be found at https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/cryptic/28337.

I’m back with Qaos again, which is no bad place to be. He uses many standard crossword devices, but generally makes them seem fresh.; and, of course, there is a theme, here a variety of culinary terms. You might just about add OFFSET (spatula) or, if your idea of cooking is that limited, OPEN (a can of beans). I also left out DOUGH, and it is too much of a chore to replace the grid image.

ACROSS
9 TASTE Modern, say, incorporating special style (5)
An envelope (‘incorporating’) of S (‘special’) in TATE (‘Modern,say’ – the London Museum of Art).
10 OFF CAMERA US labour leader, once topless, eating whipped cream when not being filmed (3,6)
An envelope (‘eating’) of CAMER, an anagram (‘whipped’) of ‘cream’ in [h]OFFA (‘US labour leader, once’ – known for his disappearance and presumed assassination) minus the first letter (‘topless’).
11 ROASTINGS Calls about oven get severe rebukes (9)
An envelope (‘about’) of OAST (‘oven’) in RINGS (‘calls’).
12 DOUGH Homer’s expression involves prelude to Ulysses, good and ready (5)
An envelope (‘involves’) of U (‘prelude to Ulysses’) plus G (‘good’) in DOH (‘Homer’s expression’ – Homer Simpson, of course).
13 BRAIDED Bishop attacked? That’s twisted (7)
A charade of B (‘bishop’, chess) plus RAIDED (‘attacked’).
15 TEMPERS Queen kidnapped by workers in bad moods (7)
An envelope (‘kidnapped by’) of ER (‘Queen’) in TEMPS (temporary ‘workers’).
17 EVENS Head to the end of 7 levels (5)
SEVEN (‘7’) with the first letter moved to the end (‘head to the end’).
18 PAN Criticise God (3)
Double definition.
20 SCORE How to go from 0 to 1 or 20? (5)
Double definition..
22 DEPARTS Leaves sections without model soldiers (7)
A subtraction: DEPAR[t][men]TS (‘sections’) minus (‘without’) T (‘model’) MEN (‘soldiers’).
25 GARMENT Man hides weapon in clothing (7)
An envelope (‘hides’) of ARM (‘weapon’) in GENT (‘man’).
26 BROWN British Rail now ruined by ex-PM (5)
A charade of BR (‘British Rail’) plus OWN, an anagram (‘ruined’) of ‘now’.
27 OUTSPREAD Unfolded drapes, cryptically (9)
Wordplay in the answer: An anagram (OUT) of SPREAD is ‘drapes’.
30 IDEOLOGUE Ideas man lambasted guide over loo break close to five (9)
A charade of IDEOLOGU, an envelope (‘over’) of OLO, an anagram (‘break’) of ‘loo’ in IDEGU, an anagram (‘lambasted’) of ‘guide’; plus E (‘close to fivE‘).
31 PEELS Facial preparations designed to get forty winks back (5)
A reversal (‘back’) of SLEEP (‘forty winks’).
DOWN
1 STIR Commotion as difficult resit gets E- (4)
An anagram (‘difficult’) of ‘r[e]sit’ minus the E (‘gets E-‘).
2 ESCAPADE Dad ceased dancing outside as a stunt (8)
An envelope (‘outside’) of PA (‘dad’) in ESCADE, an anagram (‘dancing’) of ‘ceased’.
3 BEAT Copper’s round, or is a square? (4)
A charadde of BE (‘is’ – dialect) plus ‘a’ plus T (‘square?’).
4 JOINED-UP Judge at home, immersed in dictionary, is happy being sophisticated (6-2)
A charade of J (‘judge’) plus OINEDUP, an envelope (‘immersed in’) of IN (‘at home’) in OED (Oxford English ‘Dictionary’) plus UP (‘happy’ – ‘is’ is superfluous to the wordplay).
5 OFFSET Love very loud group’s counterbalance (6)
A charade of O (‘love’) plus FF (fortissimo, musically ‘very loud’) plus SET (‘group’).
6 RANDOMISER No admirers swoon then die, perhaps (10)
An anagram (‘swoon’) of ‘no admirers’. ‘Die’ as a singular of dice.
7 REDUCE Slim regularly, or need quiche (6)
Alternate (‘regularly’) of ‘oR nEeD qUiChE‘.
8 HASH #drugs? (4)
Double definition – the typographical symbol, and the marijuana derivative.
13 BREAD Book — what to do with it and what to buy it with (5)
A charade of B (‘book’) plus READ (‘what to do with it’).
14 DISGRUNTLE Guarding posh spoiled girl tends to anger (10)
An envelope (‘guarding’) of U (‘posh’) in DISGRNTLE, an anagram (‘spoiled’) of ‘girl tends’.
16 SHEET He’s excited by Alien film (5)
A charade of SHE, an anagram (‘excited’) of ‘he’s;’ plus ET (‘alien’).
19 NIGHTIES Clothes to wear when you’re out? (8)
Cryptic definition.
21 OPEN-EYED Old writer — look down and be amazed (4-4)
A charade of O (‘old’) plus PEN (‘writer’) plus EYE (‘look’) plus D (‘down’).
23 PROVES Expert’s against French art shows (6)
A charade of PRO (‘expert’) plus V (versus, ‘against’) plus ES (‘French art’ – second person singular present of to be).
24 SPONGE Smell bad in the Home Counties? Then wash! (6)
An envelope (‘in’) of PONG (‘smell bad’) in SE (South-East, ‘Home Counties’).
26 BOIL Black, black liquid swelling (4)
A charade of B (‘black’) plus OIL (‘black liquid’).
28 PIPE Good exercise channel (4)
A charade of PI (‘good’) plus PE (‘exercise’).
29 DUST Springfield was 80% clean (4)
DUST[y] (‘Springfield’, onetime pop singer), taking 4 of the 5 letters (‘80%’).

 

image of grid

110 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,337 by Qaos”

  1. It’s been downhill all the way this week, after a really good start. This was essentially a simple bung-in-and-parse-as-you-go. I keep a check of enjoyable clues, and at the end had one half-tick (OUTSPREAD) out of thirty-plus answers. IDEOLOGUE was just one example of many cliches. But at least the blogger liked it.

  2. Very enjoyabe puzzle, almost Quiptic-like.
    Favourites: TATE, OUTSPREAD, DUST, BRAIDED, ESCAPADE, RANDOMISER, PROVES, BEAT (loi)
    Forgot to look for a theme while solving and did not see what it is when I looked on completion of the puzzle, unless it was something to do with bread.
    Thanks, Qaos and Peter.

  3. Thanks, PeterO. I’m sure you meant to highlight DOUGH in the grid too.

    Shame about IDEOLOGUE – the best surfaces give no hint what the answer is, but “Ideas” kind of gives it away.

  4. Thanks Qaos for the fun. I guess the “Monday easy, Friday difficult” notion has been reversed in the new year; this was a relative cake walk compared to the early week crosswords. Nonetheless I had many favourites including BRAIDED, SCORE, OUTSPREAD, RANDOMISER, and HASH. For once I saw the theme. Thanks PeterO for the early blog.

  7. Always happy to spot a theme! Nearly always remember to look for one with Qaos now.

    Favourites were SPONGE and DUST. LOI for both cobro and myself was BEAT.

    Thanks PeterO and QAOS!

  9. With the inclusion of TASTE, SCORE, DEPARTS and OFF CAMERA, I wondered if TV cookery competitions were an aspect of the theme.

  10. I liked this puzzle very much and enjoyed spotting many theme words. I didn’t find it a write-in but then I am clearly not as clever as some other solvers. Many thanks to Qaos and PeterO.

  11. I really liked that too. I needed the explanation of DEPART (doh, as Homer says), and ‘French art’ as ES. As a recovering pure mathematician I know that all groups are sets, but all sets are not groups. But common parlance sees that differently (and the clue is probably that way round anyway). An A+ for the E- also.And perhaps even overall, to counter the DISGRUNTLEd above. Many thanks to Qaos and to PeterO.

  12. I’m a bit surprised that rodshaw didn’t enjoy the puzzle: another example of different styles appealing to different solvers. For myself, I found the puzzle witty and entertaining: no knowledge of the theme was needed to answer all the clues, and strained linked clues were avoided.
    Qaos seems to have settled into a ‘middle of the road’ level of challenge on his setting, which I really appreciate. Anyone who tackled his earlier puzzles will know that he is capable of producing examples of excruciating difficulty, but I found them much less satisfying.
    Thanks to setter and blogger.

  13. Nor me, Julie. Nice to have a crossword to complete.
    Strange old theme, no help solving as there is such a wide choice.
    I assume DOUGH needs highlighting.
    Thanks Peter for the parsings, just needed to confirm the absent US labor leader, a new name for me.

  14. Thanks PeterO for the usual very clear explanations but could you or someone please explain further why T = square and PI = good? Maybe I am being slow this morning but these don’t spring readily to mind. I did get ES = Art and awarded myself a point for that.
    I don’t like NIGHTIES plural as most people surely only wear one at a time and I can’t imagine many men would wear them at all – would have preferred “Clothes ladies wear when they’re out” perhaps. Agree that the definition of IDEOLOGUE gave it away too easily, likewise adding “cryptically” to the clue for OUTSPREAD was much kinder than Qaos could have been.
    Enjoyed STIR, DOUGH and SPONGE the most, thanks Qaos.

  17. Missed the theme of course. After the reference to Homer in 12a, thought that Springfield in 29 was going to be another Simpsons clue but fortunately it wasn’t. Thanks to Q & P.

  18. While in the time it’s taken me to write this five other people will no doubt have got there, Gazzh @14:
    A T-square is a drawing instrument – T-square.
    “Pi” is a slightly derogatory abbreviation of “pious” and I think means good in the sense of goody-goody.
    I didn’t spot the theme, and I didn’t get the parsing of DEPARTS, but I enjoyed this. Only four or five solutions first time through, but it steadily went in – evidently I’m not as clever as some people…
    Like ravenrider @16, I was delighted by French art.

  19. Bother. The formatting tools still seem to be a bit beta. Everything from “Pi” to the end turns out to be a hyperlink to the Wikipedia entry about T-squares!!
    BTW, thanks to Qaos for a pleasant grid and PeterO for an efficient blog.

  20. [Beobachterin @11 I’m no mathematician, but I know that The Monochrome Set and The Alan Price Set were groups.

    essexboy @6 Thanks for an excellent, if crumby, selection from the great Dusty.

    I tried, but failed, to find a video of PANs People dancing in NIGHTIES to Mouldy Old DOUGH.]

    Thanks to Qaos and PeterO.

  21. Gazzh @14 – I suspect a mischevious sub-theme of crossword insider cliches – hints that are instantly recognisable by the well-practised but impenetrable to anyone else. As well as T and PI we have French art = ES, special = S, bishop = B, Queen = ER, model = T, judge = J, love = O, book = B, posh = U, Home Counties = SE. We do though appear to be missing recipe = R, men = OR and any reference to flowers.

  23. Essexboy@6, you can also temper chocolate.
    I agree with George@12 that earlier Qaos offerings were much harder but that the level of difficulty has settled at middle of road or even easy as today’s was. Nevertheless still enjoyed it and got the theme. I don’t understand Gazzh@14 objection to NIGHTIES as clothes is plural and you can be 2nd person plural also. Fav was DUST.
    Thanks to Qaos and to PeterO.

  24. Yes, the least challenging puzzle of the week but, tbh, I rather needed it. No fault of Paul’s at all but I wasn’t really in the mood yesterday, having stayed up pretty late the night before glued to the unfolding drama in Washington. So I really enjoyed some nice clues this morning which led, in most cases, pretty directly to solutions. I thought the majority of themed answers to be related to baking though that does leave several outliers like HASH, REDUCE and ROASTING (though all three of those could probably be use in a negative sense when applied to my own efforts in the patisserie department).

    I had quite a number of ticks including SCORE, BROWN, PROVES, HASH, DUST and RANDOMISER. The last was COTD for me, although the French art admired by many others was a close second. I was just delighted when die did turn out to be the singular of dice and it reminds me of one of my father’s favourite ever clues, the famous ‘die of cold? (3,4)’.

    Thanks Qaos and PeterO

  26. Thank you NeilH@18, don’t recall either of those so I have learned a couple of new things to go with those mentioned by Van Winkle@21 already in the lumber room (and you missed out my least favourite, L = teacher AND student!)

  27. Gaufrid @25 – Thank you for that. Evidently others manage to cope so it was my incompetence first time round. If the site is in any sense “under development” maybe a preview or edit function would be good.

  28. VW @21: that’s an intriguing spot. I wonder if you’re right or it’s coincidence. If, in addition to resolving your noted exceptions, there had been an ELK, we’d have had the cruciverbal full house.

  29. [Gaufrid @25 & NeilH @19 &27: I’m SO glad Gaufrid just popped in. I saw the original post appear with the extended hyperlink. One refresh later and there was NeilH’s apology but the original post had been corrected. As one who regularly curses after pressing Post Comment and wishes for a post-edit function, I thought HOW on earth did Neil manage to do that??? And when can I have a go?]

  30. Sorry if I ve missed something. But is the theme more specific than Cooking? Baking? Thanks to PeterO and Qos.

  31. Posh=U? I could not see where the U came from unless it was a film classification – guarding folks at the cinema that Kate Winslet would be keeping her clothes on.

    My heart sank when Peter did not explain it at all, except for switching the focus to posh rather than guarding!

    I think if Peter had used “Posh” , I might have twigged that really unfamous football team quicker.
    U is a very versatile letter methinks after this.

    Good work Peter. I always think of bees or ants for workers so missed temps.

  32. Have struggled with this setter in the past but not today.

    Have finally learned to seek out a theme and thought it might be bread but then found it was finished so stopped bothering.

    Rather rattled this week by the disturbing things happening in Washington. Wouldn’t surprise me if Mexico decides it will pay for the wall after all.

  33. I’ve got friends who can’t enjoy a bike ride unless it’s a near-death experience. If this was a bike ride it would be a most pleasurable outing through gently undulating countryside. Blimey I think lockdown may be getting to me 🙂
    [Nigel @20 DEPARTMENT S were also a group fronted by the splendidly named Vaughn Toulouse]

  34. akaRebornBeginner @31: U for Posh is another of those old favourites (see Van Winkle’s list @21 above). It comes from the 1950’s distinction between U and non-U English usage: basically Upper Class and not. There’s a rather interesting article on Wikipedia (when isn’t there?) about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

    You’re right, of course, in observing that U is a versatile letter (aren’t they all?). As well as the above and your contribution of U=universal film classification, other indicators include university, Uranium, united (you mentioned a football team in your comment – Man U possibly) and union. Slightly more obscure, it is also the symbol for the atomic mass unit and it’s a mathematical symbol. I wish U good luck with it in the future!

  35. [akaRB @31 & self @34: football isn’t my game but I just had a post-post moment and vaguely recalled Posh being a football team. It is, of course, Peterborough United – though, if that’s how you’ve ended up parsing the ‘U’ I suspect it’s not what Qaos had in mind!]

  36. Gazz@14
    On NIGHTIES, I agree with Van Winkle@21
    One’s own wardrobe may have them. A store may have a section for NIGHTIES.

  37. Pleasant puzzle; as George @12 said, you didn’t need to know the theme to solve it.

    My LOI, that took far too long to see, was the anagram to give RANDOMISER – good clue with the misleading ‘die’.

    Thanks Qaos and PeterO.

  38. Gazzh@14 I can’t imagine many men would wear them at all I thought this was one part of the complex cryptic definition with “out” being the operative word.

  39. Dave@38 Sorry – my comment on “out” was ambiguous: I meant “out” could also be interpreted as in the phrase “to come out” as well as “asleep”

  40. I normally like it when I am stuck on a Q puzzle so I can take a look around and chercher le theme
    But this sailed in and it was hard not to miss that lovely aroma like when you open a Bolly with a couple of years on it/ But them days have gone and it was petit dejeuner chez copmus. Muesli and yoghurt.
    Happy New Year to Qaos and all who sail with him

  44. Gazzh@14
    Sorry, I see your point. NIGHTIES cannot go with the clue as written. When sleeping we wear only one as you said.

  46. What a fun puzzle to end this more-than-bizarre week on.

    And so nice to spot a theme that is close to my heart. bodycheetah @33 “I’ve got friends who can’t enjoy a bike ride unless it’s a near-death experience” – what your friends to do biking, I reserve for cooking. Therefore, I would like to see ESCAPADE (i.e. what I would class my kitchen attempts) TEMPERS (what people show when they eat my food) and DEPARTS (self-explanatory) to be considered for the theme please?

    [bodycheetah @41: Elk puns? Deer, oh deer…]

    Thanks Qaos, PeterO and everyone for the fun this week!

  47. @43 SinCam I suppose ‘tu es’ is the French version of ‘thou art’ in old English (and ‘vous est’ = ‘you are’). It seems a shame we have lost our familiar forms thou and thee and thine etc. Never understood, though, why God was Thou in the KJV instead of You.

    I enjoyed a mostly swift Qaos crossword and thankyou Peter O for the parsing.

  48. Thinking of thou/tu, I don’t know whether anyone can tell me whether the use of “thou” in English at one time implied familiarity, in the sense that the French tu or the German du imply it.
    Clearly if there had been such an implication, it wouldn’t have been universal – I recall the tale of a Quaker aboard a ship which pirates were attempting to board, bringing a marlinspike down sharply on a hand appearing at the rail with the words “Friend, thou art not wanted here”.
    We lose something by not having that distinction between the formal and the familiar “you”. We rattle off the Lord’s Prayer – “Our Father, which ART in Heaven, Hallowed be THY name…” and it doesn’t occur to us that we are using the familiar form. I sometimes think we’d better appreciate the revolutionary nature of the Lord’s Prayer if it began “Our Daddy…”

  49. ES = French art is a new crossword staple to me, so I enjoyed PROVES. bodycheetah @ 33 I like the bike ride analogy and thought it apt. I guessed right in my prediction about how some might react. I know that if I don’t struggle, others will find it a write-in.

  50. Van Winkle@2l
    also Gazzh#14
    I think I am tying myself up in knots.
    If we take ‘you’ as plural, many of us would be wearing NIGHTIES while asleep!

  51. NeilH @48 Yes “thou” was familiar. I think we had a discussion about this before when I quoted the Shakespeare line from Twelfth Night “Taunt him with the licence of ink. If thou thouest him thrice it shall not be amiss.”

  52. Got up very late today so got to the puzzle late with little time. Luckily it was rather undemanding.
    The ‘tu es’ device is getting common now?

    [The tu/vous distinction is not well preserved in many European languages. In Irish everyone is a tú, same in the three Scandinavian languages (du), same in Finnish (sinä).
    NeilH @ 48 poses an interesting question as to when and why the need for a so-called ‘polite’ form disappears. As far as English goes, I hope someone provides an answer, I don’t know enough about English philology.

    Here in Finland, the ‘polite’ 2 Pl form does barely survive, as occasionally a younger person or, say, check-out person, might speak to me with ‘te’ (which is the plural form), usually accompanied with a rouva (Mrs, Madam) – titles are not usually used in Finland.]

    Anyway, thanks Qaos

  54. @ravenrider

    I’m sure even Qaos would concede that ‘French art’ for ES is hardly new. It’s been around for so long it is shortly to be granted Official Chestnut status

  55. Dave Ellison@38/39 – that is exactly how I at first tried to make sense of it, wondering what on earth might be the equivalent of a communion dress for someone coming out in this sense – a rainbow-striped blazer perhaps? Luckily saw the light before too long.
    ngaiolaurenson@23, rishi@36 et al, I selfishly think that crosswords are set exclusively for my benefit so that when a setter uses “you” it ought to refer to me, but of course you (plural) are right that you plural gets Qaos out of jail, he’s a slippery fish!

  57. Bingy @54

    At last! I have been trying for years to track down an Araucaria (I thought) clue for TEA CHEST. I have just (almost) done so.

    It was actually Araucaria with his FT Cinephile hat on, back in November 2008. Unfortunately, the FT doesn’t seem to have a crossword archive and it was in the days when we didn’t give the clues in the blog, so I can’t find the exact clue but the wordplay included ‘Art instructor’ and ‘leaves container’. I suppose that could, in fact, be the whole clue, couldn’t it?

  58. Rishi @ 56

    Thanks. I remember having a go with Tamil when I spent a couple of months in Tiruvanamalai in the 1990s some time. I was so pleased that i was able to read the destinations on the front of the country buses. I can remember absolutely nothing about the language, except the word for milk. Something like ‘pal’. The seller would go round with his cow and a measure shouting the word.

  60. [Anna@58
    You’re right!
    ‘Pal’ (????) means ‘milk’. The vowel is extended.
    Nice to know you visited Tiruvannamalai.]

  62. Phil @30
    Yes, Qaos gives the theme as baking, but I saw a bunch of terms common to other branches of cooking, and threw them into the pot. If I were to redo the grid, I might use two colours to separate them – and I might add TEMPER (essexboy @6); when I wrote the blog, I had a vague idea that the word had some specific use in cookery. I have now pinned it down to the tempering of chocolate – that is, the careful melting of it so that it does now seize or burn (an idea related to your spices, essexboy).

  63. I’m afraid I didn’t like this very much, thought some of the cluing decidedly iffy. 13d BREAD I felt was a very poor clue. Couldn’t work out BEAT for the final tiddler at 3d. Perhaps it’s just me this morning, back to the household chores…

  64. I am very happy to discover that I am not the only one who happily, and confidently, entered BLAIR at 26.

    I should never have dismissed that ‘now’ as mere filler.

  65. rodshaw @1, so nice to learn that this puzzle was beneath your dignity ;-). For me, it was going so nicely that I began to hope that I could, for the first time, annoy people by describing it as a romp … but I struggled a bit with a few clues towards the end, mainly because I could make nothing of the wordplay. The toughest was BEAT, with an apparently impenetrable clue and unhelpful crossers. Finally the penny dropped on the definition, but I still failed to parse.

  66. PeterO@62
    Tempering is done at the last stage in everyday Indian cooking. It is done for sambar and rasam, which are mixed one after the other with rice and eaten as a routine in southern parts of the country. Whole spices are roasted briefly in oil or ghee in a cast-iron ladle kept specially for the purpose. You should hear the noise when the ladle is plunged in the [liquid] sambar or rasam.
    In Tamil Nadu we have rice mixed with sambar first and then rasam. In Karnataka, also in the south, they have rasam first and then sambar! I can’t explain why!

  67. Thanks both and I enjoyed this one with DISGRUNTLE holding out to the end.

    BEAT – I parsed it differently and if it weren’t for the struggle to equate “is” with “be” I would purse the old lips. I took it to indicate “square beat” which as “square” is/was used derogatorily for a beat lacking swing.

    I believe it derived (not “derove” says my spell-checker – tish) from printed musical notation which just gives straight quavers for music which would, if it were to reflect the “swing”, look needlessly complicated. These straight quavers look “square” and if played as written would sound “square” – lacking in swing.

    Man.

  68. I was half-convinced that 12a was ROUGH (as in ‘rough and ready? – would have helped if I’d spotted the theme) and it wasn’t until I got RANDOMISER that the penny dropped and I emitted an appropriate DOH!

    The discussion of NIGHTIES has been interesting, with some of my thoughts on the matter occurring to others also – especially Dave Ellison’s crossdresser @38/39; on the whole I tend to think the clue is OK, but like BREAD, OUTSPREAD and IDEOLOGUE could have maybe done with a bit of a polish. Nevertheless, a mostly enjoyable solve, with the initially impenetrable surfaces gradually yielding their secrets, which is as it should be.

  69. NeilH @48, Petert @51, Anna @52 (and possibly others!)

    As PostMark implies, there seems to be a helpful wiki article on every subject under the sun, and the thou/you distinction is no exception.

    Originally the distinction, in English and its predecessors, was not between polite and familiar, but between singular and plural.

    In Old English thou was used for any person in the singular, be he/she great or lowly, human or divine. Ye was the plural form.

    In Middle English, starting in the 1300s under French influence, thou was gradually replaced by ye when addressing a superior person, thou being kept for family members, intimate friends and inferiors.

    In Early Modern English (1600s) thou began to disappear, at least in London and southern England.

    “Reasons commonly maintained by modern linguists as to the decline of thou in the 17th century include the increasing identification of you with “polite society” and the uncertainty of using thou for inferiors versus you for superiors (with you being the safer default) amidst the rise of a new middle class.”

    I’m not sure the Lord’s Prayer is that revolutionary – at least in terms of the use of thou. The King James Version translators simply followed the singular/plural distinction in Biblical Hebrew, Aramaic (which Jesus would have spoken) and Koine Greek. The Psalms of the Old Testament use the singular verb forms, and in many of those there’s also a sense of intimacy as well as reverence.

  70. Van Winkle @ 21
    I so enjoyed this puzzle. I started learning how to do cryptic crosswords in May (always wanted to be able to do them and lockdown spurred me to try). So have gradually been learning crossword language. And I recognised nearly all of the ones you listed and also the various types of clues – it took me quite a while but I was really pleased to be able to get so many answers via the wordplay.
    Still needed help to parse a couple so thanks to PeterO and to Qaos for the easier than usual Friday puzzle.

  71. We thought about inventing a new word ‘DISGNURTLE’ for 14d… before deciding that we might have fallen for some nice misdirection in entering BLAIR instread of BROWN for 26a.

    Good fun! Not at all disgnurtled today ?

  72. One particular commendation for this puzzle- it requires us to solve 33 separate clues, which feels an unusually large number (I am sure someone here knows the record for this). Qaos could easily have linked Dust Sheet, Bread Dough, Pan Pipe and Hash Brown, but has gone to the extra trouble of clueing each one individually. So extra thanks to him, and to Peter O who has had to parse each of them.

  73. A welcome relief after my near misses over the last few days, no worries at all, even the French art bringing merely a nod to an old friend. And clocked the theme too. So this is one happy bunny.

  74. Thanks, PeterO. I needed help with French art and BEAT. I was going to point out TEMPER, but I see that you’ve caught it. I wonder if SCORE could be pressed into service, too, as you could decoratively score the top of dough before baking.

  75. NeilH @48
    Quakers felt that everybody should have the same level of respect and so chose to use only the friendlier version. It persisted amonq quakers after most others started using only you. Some in Yorkshire still use two forms.
    I remember reading a suggestion (how tentative I don’t know) that when Quakers were more common, others felt they were being over familiar and started using you more as a reaction.

  76. Sagittarius@72
    Yes. 33 slots in a 15×15 is higher than usual.
    The odd number is when there is just one slot or three slots in the middle row or column.
    In this grid we have three slots in the middle row.
    The setter while fitting in the thematic words must have found it expedient to have it to observe construction rules.
    I can’t say what is the record for the most number of slots in a 15×15 grid but as you say 33 is on the higher side.
    I don’t have access to the printed paper so I can’t say if all the clues sat comfortably in the text box.
    I don’t know if the UK papers impose any word limit for the text.
    In a paper here in Chennai I sometimes find the very type size reduced to accommodate all the clues. not because the number of clues is high but the clues are verbose! Sometimes there are extra spaces between lines because the clues are pithy and succinct.

  77. I really enjoy the btl discussions on this site, but rarely join in because I seem to do the Guardian crossword later than most (lunchtime or suppertime rather than breakfast – or nightcap, for our antipodean friends!) and whatever points I might have made have usually been well-thrashed out by then. However, today I was surprised to find no comments on the definition of OPEN-EYED as “amazed”. My original guess for this was WIDE-EYED until it wouldn’t parse, which I think is a fair synonym. Open-eyed, by contrast, seems to me to imply a sense of discovery, belated or otherwise, and no feeling of awe or amazement. Can anyone speak in its defence?

    Otherwise, a most enjoyable end to the week and my thanks as ever to Qaos and PeterO.

  78. Came to this late. Lovely solve. Spent forever trying to find out why NOD didn’t work for the Homer clue, though I should have got the Simpsons Homer earlier. Did love the French ES. Many thanks to Nigel Watson @20 for the idea of Pan’s People doing Mouldly old Dough in their nighties – made me smile. Got the theme but it did not really help. I have enjoyed the debate and the extent to whcih it has broadened my knowledge. Thanks to Qaos and PeterO for a really enjoyable time. [However, a bit like an earworm, I now have an urge to watch TOTP with PP thing – thought it was so naff then so will try to resist now].

  79. AllyGally @77. I already had the crossing O, so didn’t have any problem getting OPEN-EYED from the wordplay, but I did have a slight doubt over the definition. However, Chambers has “astonished” as the very first definition, before mentions for “fully aware” and “watchful”, so I guess it’s OK.

  80. For 10a, you don’t need “whipped.” Just “cream” can be OFF CAMERA in one of those reverse anagrams we’ve been having lately — OUTSPREAD, for instance.

    How does JOINED-UP mean “sophisticated”?

    Random notes on “thou” and “you/ye”\

    I remember reading about a rebuke to a young person in the North Country who addressed an elder as “tha” “Tha tha’s them as tha’s thee.”

    Hindi has two forms of the famililar “you” “tum” for friends or people you don’t greatly respect, and “tu” for family members or people you really don’t respect!

    The Quaker usage went from “thou art” to “thee is” at some point and stayed there, at least in the US.

    In some Latin American countries “tu” has disappeared and everybody is “usted.” (According to my Spanish-English dictionary.) I remember my Argentinean landlord, who spoke Portuguese and was speaking it to my dog for some reason I can’t imagine now, addressing him as “você.”

  82. Unlike many, I found the theme tough to bring into focus. All I could see were lots of coincidental word-pairings like BREAD PAN, PAN PIPE, HASH PIPE, SCORESHEET, BROWN BREAD (dead in CRS), DEADPAN, EVEN TEMPER and DUSTPAN. Thanks for highlighting the real theme, Peter.
    Overall, I thought the puzzle was a bit too easy for a daily cryptic and I agree it seemed a bit heavy on the crosswordese cliches. Enjoyed the “art” discussion above.
    Thanks, Qaos and Peter.

    Valentine @81, I believe that’s ICE CUBE

  83. essexboy @ 69 and Valentine @ 80. The other confusing element in thou/thee ye/you is the subject/object distinction, which we have also lost. (See Valentine’s example above and the King James Version “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free”.) I seem to remember that in Persian there is a self-abnegating 1st person pronoun ??bande?? derived from a word for servant maybe.

  84. Valentine@80, you may consider joined-up handwriting to be more sophisticated than childish block letters – not necessarily more legible of course, but sophisticated doesn’t necessarily mean better!

  86. Gazzh @84 & Valentine @80. I got from ‘sophisticated’ to JOINED-UP by way of joined-up thinking, that subtle level of sophistication that makes sure that your public transport system is up to scratch before you raise the taxes on motor fuel, for instance.

  87. [Rishi@66, thanks for the sambal/rasam insight, shades of the jam vs clotted cream ordering debate between natives of Devon and Cornwall when spreading on scones. Our local curry house proprietor is from Bangalore so I will take it up with him next time I pop in for a takeaway!]

  88. Fiona Anne @70 – Welcome to Fifteensquared if it’s your first time here. I must say that I didn’t enjoy this puzzle as much as some – I prefer the really tough ones, and don’t mind if I don’t finish them, provided I had a good tussle along the way. But there’s a very good mix in The Guardian.

  89. I completed this with minimal resort to ‘try a letter until one works’ in a few clues – to my mind that makes it near perfect difficulty : )
    (‘Though perhaps also too easy for more experienced solvers.)

    PostMark (24)
    How about Corn Beef HASH?
    Also cooks REDUCE liquids by boiling or simmering – perhaps the stock to make the gravy when the meat has finished ROASTING

  92. Well…that was a lot simpler than Paul’s offering from yesterday! I could NOT get BEAT despite being spotted the E and the T! My favorite was RANDOMISER.
    Thanks to Qaos and PeterO.

  93. Katherine @89: thanks for that but my point was I saw a baking theme rather than the broader culinary theme identified by PeterO. Those three words I highlighted as not fitting the narrower definition; your three examples all fit perfectly well with the broader but I don’t see any of them as baking related?

  94. I’ve just Googled “score dough” and confirmed that SCORE is another term for slashing the top of an unbaked loaf to allow for expansion. I loved the pictures of the many decorative ways to do it!

  95. Enjoyed this one, although I needed the Wikipedia page of crossword abbreviations open in another tab. Favourite was 6D. Got all but about 6 clues. Getting better!

  96. Enjoyably completed,except for 29d. Infuriated at being stumped by a four-letter clue with two crossers in place and doubly infuriated to have missed a reference to the might Dusty; I’d allowed myself to be misled by focusing on the home town of the Simpsons, perhaps because of Homer’s appearance in 12ac.
    Valentine@80 – further random notes on “thee” and “thou”:
    In Argentinian Spanish, “vos” is used in place of “tu”and the conjugation of the second person singular changes slightly from the Spanish form. Oddly, in the plural the “vosotros” form isn’t used – everyone is referred to as “ustedes”. It’s an old way of speaking; when I once addressed a Spanish friend as “vos”, he replied, “Why are you speaking seventeenth-century Spanish?”. Forty or so years ago, I had a colleague from Washington in County Durham, who used “thee” and “thine”. That may still be current in Durham, but I’ve not heard anyone speak like that for a long time and those forms aren’t used on this side of the Tyne in Newcastle, or, I think in Northumberland.

  97. Stupid question time…how do you get the @ number to reply to a post?
    Don’t tell me that you have to manually count the numbers??

  98. [HoofItYouDonkey @ some number: if you are on a mobile browser (as I am at the moemnt) you won’t see the number which you have to type in manually…]

  99. Hoofit @97: if you scroll down to the very bottom of the screen you should see two buttons entitled Desktop Version and Mobile Version. Select the former and you’ll get the post numbers.

  100. As a Cornish expat you definitely need to SCORE the oggies (3 neat cuts) before shoving them in the oven. Otherwise they explode and go all soggy. It’s yet another argument for side-crimping vs. top-crimping.

  101. On the TU ES/VOUS ETES track, I once met a girl who was decidedly Upper-crust. A mutual acquaintance confirmed this “Vous savez, elle vouvoie ses parents!”

  102. PostMark @93
    My apologies – in my post @62 I should have acknowledged you @24 as well as Phil@30.

    HoofItYouDonkey @97
    I had the impression that Gaufrid’s recent changes would give you the numbers, but apparently not. In any case, you may have the option in your browser to switch to a desktop version which gives the numbers to you, although it may make the text unreadable (not that I really know; my mobile is borderline stupid).

  103. PeterO @102: no probs. I’m not precious about these things. I found it slightly odd to have those three outliers as I called them, if Qaos says the theme is baking. As I implied, my own efforts might deserve a ROASTING but that, HASH and REDUCE don’t really play a role in baking to my understanding, Thanks again for the blog.

  104. Yes, AllyGally@77, I too looked sideways at OPEN-EYED and thought it a bit loose.
    I find it amazing there are over 100 entries at this point but the discussion has been illuminating, so thanks to all who have enlightened my breakfast coffee.
    I enjoyed this as everything was so gettable. Thanks to Qaos for the exercise and PeterO for the explanations. I had forgotten the ES art bit.

  105. Postmark@35 – thanks for taking an interest. As you say, Peterborough for Posh and Utd for U was my solution, opening up West Ham, Manchester, Cambridge* , Sheffied and others as potential U’s! I thought Posh was a peculiar choice of course …. Villa are playing Liverpool’s full squad with a Covid ridden selection whose average age is 18! Could be a new crossword clue after the result tonight?

    *Cambridge Utd ….
    Nickname: The ‘U’s
    League: Football League Two
    Stadium Name: Abbey Stadium; (8,127)
    Manager: Mark Bonner

  106. Mystogre @104. I thought my post @79 would have settled this. Chambers has OPEN-EYED=astonished. I don’t see how ‘amazed’ can be considered at all loose in light of this information, so I guess you must not have seen it.

  108. 19d
    I had no problem with the plural. You can wear one nightie on one night and a different nightie on another night so you can wear two or more nighties.

  109. Many thanks Qaos & PeterO

    I had too quickly entered NEGLIGEE instead of NIGHTIES which gave problems with only one crosser(and wasn’t plural)

    for DEPARTS i got into a mess thinking sections=PARTS, which stopped me parsing the rest

    For BEAT, the given parsing works beautifully so must be right – nice – I hadn’t looked past a copper’s round (or beat) often being around the block hence square – I remember wondering what kind of clue I would call that? a play on round and square suggests cd, but the definition is included

    thought “then” in 6d an odd link when “and” works easily

    particularly liked BROWN SCORE PAN OUTSPREAD (where i think you need ‘cryptically’ as an indicator) PIPE JOINED UP – quite a few

    thanks again

  110. Overall, a fun puzzle. I was thrown off a bit in the NW corner because I thought “Copper’s round – or is it square?” Was CUBE (Copper = CU. Round = BE. ‘Or id it square?’ = def) which – and this isn’t sour grapes – I think is a better answer. Other than that I enjoyed solving it. I particularly liked OUTSPREAD and RANDOMISER.

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