Guardian 28,341 – Philistine

96 comments on “Guardian 28,341 – Philistine”

1. Not to mention the Philip Pullmna theme

2. …or even Pullman.

3. For once, I got the theme. Even though SUBTLE was FOI and the other five all solved reasonably early, I still didn’t see it until I’d finished so it was no help with the solve but satisfying to spot the connections at the end. Probably helped by watching the – pretty decent – dramatisation on TV on catch up at the moment. I think it’s just the six terms identified by Andrew for sure but one might be able to stretch the theme to include INERT (dust?), SPELLBINDING (the witches?), MESSIANIC (Lyra being the prophesied ‘chosen one’) and, given the steampunk’ish milieu, possibly CHEMICAL and LUNAR YEAR though I can’t recall specific occurrences. I don’t remember either a LABYRINTH or a DRAGON but wouldn’t be totally surprised.

   Yes, Philistine has produced tougher puzzles but I was on the wavelength this morning and this was all Goldilocks zone for me.

   Thanks Philistine and Andrew

4. As I read 1a, the answer came.
   The next across clue too fell immediately.
   For a person who has read 9a YEATS, that clue cannot be hard.
   I didn’t send my daughter to any 10a FINISHING SCHOOL but it is familiar to me from my reading of M and B novels.
   Can anyone ask for a better start?
   Thus the solving progressed.
   Liked 12a INERT where the anag signal merges with the anag fodder. Also 19d BRUISE which is what is called semi-&lit, if my understanding is correct. Got the none-too-difficult 26d DRAGON but till the moment of writing I have not been able to see how it works. What is the def? If it is “are tedious”, the enum should be (4,2).
   I have to admit that when I – an annuitant – pay an outrageous bill for something that I must buy, I don’t find it ‘charming’ (13a).
   Noted that in 20a AMBER, the cross-reference 8 is not a component in wordplay but just a substitution for a word in the clue text.
   The puzzle is certainly
   “More bright and brief lingerie that is in possession of naughty rani (8)

5. Didnt find it that easy which made it more enjoyable perhaps

6. Even the crosswords have built-in OBSOLESCENCE these days.

   LIGHTS, SUBTLE and SPYGLASS appearing in the top half alerted me to look out for NORTHERN, KNIFE and AMBER lower down. I haven’t read the book or watched the TV adaptation, so I don’t know if there are further thematic entries.

   I enjoyed CRIKEY! as it’s something that Penfold exclaims along with “Oh eck!” and “Crumbs!”.

   [Plenty of musical references, but I’ve got the Stones playing Monkey Man in my head “Well I hope we’re not too messianic or a trifle too satanic”.]

   Thanks Philistine and Andrew

7. A pleasant steady solve with CHEMICAL, OBSOLESCENCE and BRUISE being favourites. I thought the theme might have been lights/lighting with GREEN, AMBER, SUBTLE, LUNAR, LASER, CHEMICAL, NORTHERN, INERT, DRAGON, INERT, CAMDEN and SPELLBINDING. I’ve heard of Philip Pullman but not familiar with his work, so this is obviously the actual theme. Well done Andrew for spotting that and thanks Philistine for a good workout.

8. I did find it a bit easier than Philistine’s usual standard, but still as entertaining as he always is. I know the demographic for these puzzles is on the older side, but Prince Rainier married Grace Kelly 65 years ago.

9. Sorry, I meant ABUSER, and yes I had the same reaction as you Andrew.

10. Myself@4
    Sorry! BRUISE is a typo. It should be ABUSER.
    The theme went above my head, as is said so often here.

11. Normally I’m very slow on the uptake with themes, but got there after SUBTLE and AMBER. Perhaps there is a secondary theme-ette of wry political comment, with 1ac, 13ac (ask Marcus Rashford about food parcels), 17ac, 2dn (“They laughed when I used to bang on about the environment” says Charles), 14dn, 22dn…?
    A pleasant, not too difficult, solve, which was welcome after a DNF yesterday.
    Yes, “in London” is a bit meh for a definition of CAMDEN; and are our followers out in the plantations meant to be familiar with the (admittedly charming, and apparently beloved of John Betjeman and Mary Wilson) little Norfolk town of Diss (population 7,572 in the last Census)?
    And I’m with Andrew about ABUSER.
    Why is 15dn legitimate? What in the wordplay actually suggests that the solution might be concealed in “Authentic ingenue”? Dense person from the Prince Rainier-era demographic enquires.
    Thanks to Philistine and Andrew.

12. Agree about 19d, expecially with the dreadful news coming out of the Republic of Ireland at the moment.
    That apart, a thoroughly enjoyable early morning ramble. A bit of a shame as the weather in Kent is shocking at the moment and the excuse for not helping Lady Hoofit with the housework has now gone.
    Thanks Andrew for the blog.

13. NeilH @11: Re 15d, I took the ‘s to be possessive and thus indicate insertion.

14. PostMark @13 – Yes, that makes sense; and a very neat and concise bit of cluing when you have it explained. Thank you for enlightening a thick wrinkly.

15. [NeilH @14: your posts here cast significant doubt on the ‘thick’. I’ll have to take your word for it on the wrinkly!]

16. I remember Pullman getting a lot of lit press at the time, but I don’t know the titles so no theme here. Pottered through this quite contentedly but without much fizz, not exactly 13ac, but more my mood than the Phil’s probly. Thanks to him and to Andrew.

17. [HoofIt @12
    Lady Hoofit’s words ringing in your ears?
    “HooverItYouDonkey!”]

18. [Penfold @17: not much succour in that!]

19. Thanks Philistine and Andrew
    I agree with your summary, Andrew, although I didn’t completely parse SPYGLASS. I also wondered about an inclusion indicator in 15d.
    No theme for me, of course. As I’ve said before, once I’ve written a solution in, I forget it.
    Nice to see DISS appearing again. It used to be a regular, but I don’t recall seeing it for some time.

20. [Penfold @ 17: might be dyson with death]

21. [AlanC @20: Given that he’s in plague bound Kent, probably more of a Vax required.]

22. [AlanC @20: it’s the anti-Vaxers who are doing that!]

23. Fun one this morning with nothing to complain about and the superb word-play helping with even the most complex of words.

    Thanks to Philistine and Andrew!

24. [PostMark @22: Ah – great minds. I decided to sell my Dyson; it was just collecting dust… Coat. Got.]

25. Thanks for a great blog, Andrew. (You seem to be mellowing: time was when CAMDEN would have evinced more than a slight tut. 😉 )

    Philistine doesn’t often go in for themes, so it didn’t occur to me to look for one – not that I would have spotted it, since I haven’t read the books or seen the series but there was plenty to enjoy here, as always. I particularly liked SUBTLE, INERT, FLEA IN ONE’S EAR and LABYRINTH and, as muffin said, it was quite nice to see DISS again.

    I enjoyed NeilH’s exploration of a theme-ette.

    Many thanks to Philistine for the fun.

26. Thanks Andrew, agree on the difficulty level relative to the setter’s usual, though made harder for me today solving on my phone while on a tram, which I find makes anagrams and longer clues hard to see. And I didn’t parse SPYGLASS as couldn’t get Gypsy=Bohemian, but the solution was clear enough.
    CAMDEN took me a while despite being a former resident as I was misled trying the parts in the wrong order and was looking for xAxDON, and I spent a while trying to shoehorn DOZEN* into 23A.
    My favourite is SPELLBINDING, thanks Philistine.
    [But honourable mention to CRIKEY for reminding me of a favourite album of yesteryear- “Ooh Crikey It’s Lawnmower Deth” – though your opinion may differ.]

27. I think there’s also a ref to Lord Carlo Boreal at 25a.

    Any idea why the blog isn’t listed in the Guardian category?

    Thanks P & A. Favourite PEA GREEN for the reminder of bong trees and runcible spoons.

28. Nice little puzzle, completed fairly quickly.
    Never heard of Phillip Pullman.
    Thanks Philistine and Andrew.

29. @essexboy: “Any idea why the blog isn’t listed in the Guardian category?”

    Simply that I forgot to categorise it – now fixed.

30. Enjoyable puzzle, rather like a Quiptic.
    Favourites: LABYRINH, INERT, EARTHLING
    New: DISS = Norfolk town
    Did not parse MESSIANIC, OBSOLESCENCE

    Thanks, B+S

    Did not notice the theme – even though I have been very much enjoying the new TV series.

31. Maybe it was easy because you hardly have to think of any words to solve it; out of 27 clues there were only six in which none of the letters was provided. 13 anagrams (including inter to inert and back again), two hiddens, lists of initial letters etc.
    Thanks Andrew, Philistine

32. I havent heard of him either but I expect he’s never heard of me

33. Even when I’d finished it, AND realised there was a theme, AND I’ve read and love the books, I STILL couldn’t see the theme! Lockdown must be locking down my brain more than I thought…

34. I assumed “in” London meant fashionable as CAMDEN is where cool kids hang out? As a resident I do my best to undermine this image with my lockdown attire of fluffy fleece and tracksuit
    I had seven ticks and a double for the sneaky apostrophe inclusion indicator

35. Straightforward top to bottom solve, but I’ve never read any Pullman so the theme was over my head.

36. [BigNorm @35: a Pull-over … I’d get my coat only MaidenBartok borrowed it ages ago and never returned it. Probably wears it for his vacuuming.]

37. Loved this with the plethora of wonderful concise cluing.

    Even managed to complete without aids – a rarity for me with this setter.

    Many thanks Philistine.

38. For once I found this a stroll. For once I spotted the theme.

    I’m sorry, Philip Pullman, but when I read the Northern Lights trilogy I took an instant dislike to Lyra (in chapter one of the first book), and from then on found myself hoping beyond hope that someone or something would kill her. In consequence I am not sure I appreciated the books as much as others have.

39. Oh, Anna @28 – you have missed out! Just as I missed the theme, despite being a fan. Quite a while since I last read them, but I have an inkling that CHEMICAL fits in somewhere, and of course the Gypsies do too. And isn’t Will an EARTHLING? Enjoyed the crossie nevertheless – not too difficult. Thanks, Philistine and Andrew.

40. I agree with James@31 — the preponderance of anagrams in the clues and the provision of most of the letters for the solutions was a noticeable feature of this puzzle. But I enjoyed it nonetheless.
    I don’t share others’ discomfort about ABUSER: is it now not possible to say that an abuser might leave a terrible bruise? But we accept the use of the word ‘murder’ or the pseudo-headline “Digs up 12 butchered in Norfolk town”. Hmmmm.

41. Re 20a does the number 8 represent a traffic light? I couldn’t locate anything using a web search. I guess it must be or is there something else? Assuming it does there are only two aspects which would be red and green!
    Thanks

42. Yes, the number of anagrams helped for a smooth solve.

    Like Alan C @7, I thought the theme was ‘lights’ but that didn’t help with the solve.

    I particularly liked the clues for YEATS, FLEA, LABYRINTH and ABUSER (I don’t think there is anything wrong in pointing out what some abusers do; it’s probably just as well to highlight the menace of any type of abuse).

    Thanks Philistine and Andrew.

43. TheFSG: Not in itself but Amber indicates the lights are about to change. Common usage ‘the lights were on amber…’

44. The FSG@41
    (If I have understood your question correctly)
    It is just that the setter has 8 instead of the word “lights”. LIGHTS is the answer at 8.

45. TheFSG @41; the 8 refers to the answer in 8D, which is LIGHTS.

46. [MaidenBartok @ 21, like it. Coincidentally my wife bought me a Vax carpet cleaner for Xmas. How very kind is that!!]

47. TheFSG @41: I suspect your problem might arise from the fact it’s a slightly odd definition element. “The (LIGHTS) are about to change” = (when the light is) AMBER. Wordplay” “in C-AMBER – well”

48. I have said in my Comment at 4 that it is unusual in the sense that the figure is used instead of a word in clue text. Usually it will be for a component in wordplay.

49. [AlanC @46: they’re all as bad as each other. They all suck!]

50. I’ll just have to suck it up

51. LYRA is also there, just, in the grid (L from FLEA, with YRA from LUNAR YEAR).

52. Fairly quick for me too, and clocked the theme, but I was held up in the SW by too much knowledge.

    London has many rivers apart from the Thames, and one is the Wandle, so for some time right at the end I not only tried to make this parse but work with 25a. Then at last I remembered the theme – I had LIGHTS but not yet NORTHERN! Talk about making hard work…

    A tiny bit disappointed that LASS is a component in both 1d and 3,8.

53. Trailman
    I was wondering if it was Waddon …

54. [PostMark @49: I was just about to say that, but you BEAT me to it (obscure and possibly unfunny reference to the roller on a vacuum being officially called a “beater.”

    I therefore pass you back the coat. But what in Swansea are going on here? https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2rwgxd ]

55. I loved the Northern Lights trilogy, and both the sequels, enjoyed the two TV series – and wasn’t averse to the film – yet I still didn’t spot the theme. Hey ho
    Perhaps I was distracted by the plethora of pleasing surfaces, especially 22d, 4a, 24a, 13a, and 1a.
    In fact, by the end my rough-sheet of notes was peppered with ticks and happy exclamation marks.
    So hearty thanks to Philistine for a delightful crossword, and to Andrew for the blog

56. I found this difficult but enjoyable and needed help with some parsing for SPYGLASS, OBSOLESCENCE, LASER LIGHTS.

    I liked LABYRINTH, NORTHERN (FOI) DRAGON (LOI) CRIKEY.

    Looking at 18d, the clue is “Hideaway by river…..” and the answer has the river (CAM) before hideaway (DEN). Is this a usual crossword convention – Can someone explain for me please. Thanks

    Thanks to Philistine and Andrew

57. In crossword clues A on B gives BA, not AB. The same logic seems to apply here. Hideway by river – CAMDEN. Others may explain it better.

58. Fiona Anne@56: The river and the hideaway are beside (by) each other – the order is irrelevant. E.g “it is over there by the vacuum cleaner”. Does that help? I would rarely use “by” when I mean beside but it’s acceptable usage.

59. Another lesson in crossword geography, where little-known Norfolk towns and three-letter rivers are more significant than in the real world. Still I wouldn’t want to DISS it

60. Fiona Anne@56
    Alphalpha@58
    [I remember the first line of the poem ‘The Miller on the Dee’:
    There dwelt a miller, hale and bold, beside the river Dee;
    In the second stanza we have
    I live by my mill
    Of course, here this may also mean he earns his livelihood by working at the mill.
    And Dee, as someone noted a while ago, is one of those three-letter crossword rivers.]

61. A Goldilocks for me for which much thanks – haven’t had one in a while.

    WB Yeats seems to be cropping up a lot recently and of course he had a brother Jack B Yeats who was a noted artist. Their distant relative Henry D doesn’t get much credit for artistic offerings, though it’s generally agreed that he was a master of en bloc execution.

    AlanC@46: If someone gave me a hoover for Xmas they would promptly be cast as the Xmas fairy, with the hoover playing the part of the Xmas tree. To each their own, I suppose.

62. [Petert @59: be very careful of the geographical qualifier police. It’s not as if Diss is “some faraway place” ‘Nuff said; I’ll Holt there.]

63. Everybody’s said it all. Enjoyed the puzzle, didn’t spot the theme (have barely heard of the books, and find on google that Northern Lights is The Golden Compass over here, which I have vaguely heard of.

    Thanks, Philistine and Andrew.

64. [PostMark @62: The town of Diss has Facebook group called… wait for it… Diss, Dat and d’other]

65. [PostMark, Petert and MaidenBartok
    Obscure Norfolk towns:
    Holt – who goes there?
    ‘Godzilla eats Diss’ in a Half Man Half Biscuit song.
    At least they’re real places, so you’re not Fakenham.]

66. Enjoyed this, finding it pretty straightforward. I was ready to object to 15d being unfair until I read PostMark’s comment @ 13. How subtle! And I’d originally started writing GENUINE in so I was fooled twice in one clue. I don’t understand the complaints about CAMDEN. Thanks to Philistine, Andrew and everyone else for helpful comment

67. Anna @53, Waddon was on my list too, when I realised it was a place in London, not a river. It’s on the Wandle, as it happens.

68. [Penfold @65 you stole a March on me there – knew I could r-ely on you for the HMHB reference]

69. Thanks to Alphalpha and Rishi

70. [bodycheetah @68 & Penfold @65: very witty suggestions. Thanks for Sheringham]

71. A very quick solve for me, despite misleading myself with CRIPES (struggled to make PES mean ‘major’) and GENUINE (an authentic anagram of ‘ingenue’, but unfortunately only seven letters long). I’ve read most of the Pullman series, but gave up half way through the last book after getting well fed up with plot holes and cardboard cut-out characters – and the TV version with dreadful “background” music and wooden dialogue is even worse.

    I think James @31 has summarised this puzzle very well, and the absence of cryptic definitions, Spoonerisms, homophones and dodgy synonyms seems to have led to an outpouring of puns from contributors here. Not saying that’s a bad thing, just an observation.

    Whose coat is this? Mind if I borrow it?

72. I always hate clues which are exclamations. There are so many possibilities ( and usually outdated!). I’d quibble that ‘my’ on its own isn’t the equivalent to crikey surely it should be ‘ oh my’ but I accept that this is my disaffection with those kinds of clues .

73. Penfold, Postmark and bodycheetah. I would have posted my appreciation of the Norfolk puns earlier, but Imhad problems with my computer – a Stiffkey

74. An uncharacteristically early finish for me, and I spotted the theme, albeit too late to be of any practical use.
    I think the books well deserve the many accolades they’ve gathered – wonderfully imaginative, and fizzing with big ideas, many of which remain elusively just out of one’s grasp. They will remain classics, I’m sure.
    I’m 5/7 of the way through the current TV adaptation, which is excellent (and, unlike Sheffield hatter @71) I think the music is terrific).
    As for the puzzle, I thought it had an unusually high proportion of long solutions, which proved easier to crack than appeared at first blush. Very enjoyable.

75. A quick and enjoyable solve. Thanks Philistine, and to Andrew for the blog.
    As usual I missed the theme, despite being a fan of both the books and TV series (though the film was terrible).
    Am I the only one who doesn’t like LASER LIGHTS? It’s not a phrase as far as I know, just two words that don’t really go together.

76. I confused the poet YEATS with the cyclist YATES, forgot which side of the Atlantic uses which spelling of METRES and wondered why SREEN might equate to groom in the obvious SEA GREEN colour. Apart from that, quite straightforward for Philistine. I’m not au fait with the author, so missed out on the theme. My bad luck.
    Thanks, Phil and Andrew, for the daily workout.

77. HarpoSpeaks @75, I think LASER LIGHTS are those used in displays at concerts and other events, so I believe they are definitely “a thing”.

78. I did this last night, thinking a nice puzzle but quite unremarkable, and come here this morning and find all these remarks! So I’ll add a few.
    Missed the theme, as usual.
    I didn’t see the problem with the ABUSER clue. It’s not a pleasant subject, but it wasn’t being condoned.
    Also a bit puzzled by the objections to “in London”. Is it that there are too many possibilities? There are only 30-odd boroughs, throw in a few more neighborhoods, and you still have a much smaller total than the number of rivers, plants, animals, even authors, that we meet all the time.

79. Dr Whatson@78
    I think the objection to “in London” is not that there are too many boroughs so how can we select one? I think some solvers think that “in London” should be ‘a place/borough/area/neighbourhood or something like that.’
    Friends, please correct me if I am wrong.

80. Thanks Philistine, that was just right. (Alphaalpha @61 with his Goldilocks description was spot on for me.) Favourites were CHEMICAL, SPELLBINDING, LASER LIGHTS, PEA GREEN, and ABUSER. The theme was unknown to me but I had fun anyway. Thanks Andrew for the blog.

81. CAMDEN is a noun; ‘in London’ is a prepositional phrase. As such it wouldn’t meet OddOtter’s ‘plug&play’ test.

    (Speaking of whom, I hope we see our lutrine friend again soon.)

    [bodycheetah @68, I think you’re straying into Cambs. Careful or you’ll end up in Essex.]

82. essexboy @81. I think OddOtter’s ‘plug&play’ test is a little overplayed. In a clue like this, the solver is allowed to have a tacit ‘place’ included in the prepositional phrase ‘in London’. Otherwise how is such a word ever to be clued? And, pace Andrew and his little ‘tut’, I think we as solvers surely recognise this.

    [Having written the above, I suddenly remembered using Camden tablets in my days of home brewing. So there is another possible way of defining CAMDEN.]

83. Another gem from Philistine, for which much thanks.

    I wonder whether English not being Philistine’s first tongue (as I understand) is the reason why he has such a great ability to see and appreciate all quirkiness and opportunity for humour in the language. Reminds me of the Great Dane, Victor Borge, in that regard. In any event, he is in my top 5 setters list.

    My coat is at the dry cleaners, so I will refrain from joining in on the vac/Norfolk dialogue today.

84. sh @82: ‘Boss in Norman city secures division of capital’ (6) ?

    Having said that I’m not unhappy with Philistine’s clue; I was just suggesting what may have prompted Andrew’s mild disapproval.

85. essexboy: Nice one, very inventive. I hope Andrew will approve!

86. [essexboy @84 Nice clue, but you’re not getting me to sit here thinking of puns for Normandy towns at this time. That would Rouen my evening.]

87. [Penfold @86 and essexboy @84: I Caen’t think of any either so I’m out too!]

88. Something odd this week. Couldn’t get to grips with Vulcan, got about half of Pucks and nearly finished today – couldn’t get SW corner. Great fan of Dark Material – not that it helped. Thanks Philistine for a confidence boost after a bad Monday.

89. [PostMark @87: No more puns – I’m Diepping out of this one]

90. [MaidenBartok at 89: Sutton inhibition prevents me from joining this game of puns.].

91. Easier than yesterday’s but more enjoyable. Rishi@4, BRAINIER but Ranis in India will take exception to the surface, he he

92. [Re the coat mentioned in some posts above.
    If I am not mistaken, I think men say “I will get my coat” when they want to leave a place in embarrassment or or something.
    I wonder if women say that. If not, what would they say?
    In India ordinary people don’t wear coats.
    In the decades past, when Western clothes were not as popular as they are now, most men used to have an angavastram on their [usually] left shoulder. (anga means body, vastram means cloth.)
    In circumstances when men want to leave a place suddenly in anger, they would remove the upper cloth, shake it vigorously, put it back on their shoulder and leave.
    In old films the social drama always had a villain who would threaten other apparently noble or at least timid characters, say words that mean “I’ll be back” and do the action that I mentioned above.
    I may have something to say about ‘coatstands’. But I am not sure if these blabberings are in order here.]

93. [Rishi: Thanks for the information on the angavastram. I think “I’ll get me coat” is only used in situations where humour (or pseudo-embarrassment) rather than anger is the prevalent emotion.

    Please do let us know something about coat stands!]

94. [Rishi @92: There is a popular TV link to the phrase from The Fast Show character who says something unfunny, inappropriate or embarrassing and realises he needs to leave… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3OM2MA1pic ]

95. [SH@93
    Now in India I see coatstands only in 5-star hotels. They are not seen usually in homes. They are noticed occasionally in auction halls or SH furniture shops.
    In India the practice is to tie a rope across a room and throw clothes onto it.
    A room in my flat here in Chennai has a rosewood coatstand that is a heirloom.
    My father must have bought it among others from a departing English family in 1947-48.
    MaidenBartok@94
    Thanks. Will check it out.]

96. Thanks Andrew and Philistine. Finished this quickly, almost Monday speed. Wasn’t looking for or expecting a theme and totally failed to spot it despite being a Pullman aficionado!! I’ve enjoyed the TV series as many others have said here : it’s a huge shame that Covid has prevented any attempt to begin filming the third and final chapter. Sadly by the time it’s safe for them to start the principal actors will be too old for the roles, so I wonder if we will ever get to see it. I hope we do.

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