Guardian Cryptic 28,370 by Enigmatist and Soup

191 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,370 by Enigmatist and Soup”

1. Sorry, but this left me cold. Too much Google required. Just felt like one for the inner circle.

2. Wow, this was difficult. Thank god for google!

   My first desire was to run away, having solved only 3 clues on my first pass. Finally solved 15d SAI and also 24ac, then I googled a list of types of monkeys to help solved other related clues.

   When I finally solved 28ac ARAUCARIA, I understood what the theme was. I guess I should have looked at fifteensquared first where I now see ‘John Graham – A Centenary Tribute’ which I very much enjoyed reading.

   Favourite: SUDOKU.

   New for me LUTZ = a jump in skating; LAR = a gibbon / early 19th century: from Latin, literally ‘household god’; also dana monkey, saimiri monkey, ENTELLUS, MANGABEY, wanderoo, Ken Bruce (for 25ac); PALACE-CAR, WORDCROSS.

   Did not parse the PUZZLE bit in 30ac, or EDISON, and REBUS = policeman.

   Failed 10ac SAJOU.

   Thank you loonapick and setters.

3. I still don’t understand 30A, even after your explanation! Is there a rock band with ZZ in it or something?

4. I think LEI is the plural of the Romanian currency, the leu, and the definition element of 1ac is the full “VIPs training in it” as a PALACE CAR is on a train.

   Very difficult indeed and I, unashamedly, looked up rather a few monkeys and the odd unknown word and needed some help here with the parsing.

   Thanks E&S and loonapick

5. I’m more on the ‘tour de force’ side than the ‘had to search for the 24s’ – I actually knew quite a few of them (too much time watching David Attenborough perhaps?) 24a and 2d are 24s too.

   Thank you to Enigmatist and Soup for the centenary crossword – I did enjoy searching out the ‘Araucarias’ . Thanks to loonapick for the blog – such a shame when the day job gets in the way of important stuff like crosswords!

6. Jason @3 – yes ZZ TOP are a US rock/country/whatever else band, so ZZ TOP topless is just ZZ.

7. But LEI (14D) is the plural of LEU, the Romanian (and Moldovan) currency.

8. Thanks Skinny. I’m not much good at rock bands.

9. ZZ Top, apparently

10. Postmark @4 – thanks for the LEI explanation – just one of the clues where I didn’t have time to do more checking. Same applies to LAR, which I did not know was a gibbon.

    On the PALACE CAR definition, I thought that including “VIPs training” might confuse the issue as PALACE CAR is the thing they are in, not the VIPs themselves, so chose to highlight “it”.

11. @Jason
    fwiw, ZZ Top’s guitarist Billy Gibbons is an ordained minister and goes by the sobriquet The Reverend (chances of Enigmatist knowing this = 100%)

12. So glad to read Gareth’s comment, with which I heartily agree. No doubt the small group of experts will have a warm glow at the cleverness and the sentiment, while us poor schmucks who are just looking for a fun start to the day are left on the outside looking in.

    I look for an interesting challenge to start the day. The odd strange new word is a test to my vocabulary, and I trust to my modest crosswording abilities to tease it out from the clue. This is fun. What goes beyond fun into the realms of frustration, beyond there to irritation and thence to grumpiness, is having to go back and forth to Google looking for obscure monkeys or whatever.

    What is the purpose of this for your average solver? This is the first time I’ve ever thrown the paper away in exasperation with the crossword half-finished, and I’m certain I won’t have been the only one who did.

    Please, editor, no more. Let the experts and sadists have their fun on the tough Sundays, and leave weekdays to those of us with more modest abilities (and less interest in Google).

13. A fine tribute but I could never have finished it unaided. One of those that makes me feel I have learned almost nothing.

    Thanks to E, S & L

14. Jason @3, Skinny @6 & Dave Ellison @9: ZZ Top have appeared twice on Fifteensquared in the last couple of months with the ‘topless’ device being used to arrive at the double Z. Once by Bluth in the Indy and in our own blog here by fellow commenter drofle on Paul’s football puzzle.

    lonnapick @10: thanks – but not sure I understand your PALACE CAR point. Doesn’t that leave the “VIP’s training in” hanging loose? I assume we are both using training in the same sense of travelling by train? Which makes “VIP’s training in it” a definition in my book. I may well have misunderstood your point.

15. I was initially misled after having looked up SAI and found an Eastern dagger, which didn’t fit 24d. Eventually I looked it up again, more carefully, and found the MONKEY which did fit. I recognised about half of them (thanks, Gerald Durrell!) but not ENTELLUS, SAI, SAJOU, SAIMIRI or WANDEROO.
    The clever idea of this, with its joint monkey/puzzle theme as a tribute to the great monkey-puzzle himself, was perhaps too ambitious to be able to fit in enough examples of each that were tolerably familiar, hence the many unknowns. It must have been tough to construct and was too tough for me to solve: never heard of a KENKEN, either, or a PALACE CAR. Too far above my pay grade to be enjoyable.

16. [baerchen @11: when they popped up on the Indy, I posted – to a slightly different readership – No idea if this is general knowledge but a source of wry amusement amongst fans of ZZ Top is that the one who doesn’t have a beard is Frank Beard. A glance at the link provided by Dave Ellison immediately explains why.]

17. Well said Oofyprosser @12.

    Its a shame that a deserved potential tribute should be ruined like this. I for one refused to resort to a list of monkeys.

18. A wonderful tribute-it wouldnt have quite felt right if it wasnt curly in places.I crashed on KENKEN as I’ve never heard of it
    Thanks JH Hamish and loonapick

19. The centenary for the (very, ie much, loved) Rev has been mentioned in the last day or two, tho forgotten by this dough-brain. A fitting tribute to him, and 28ac was a warm glow. The puzzle, though, was a bit of a plough. My entry was via tard/sier, which I had to then look up. After which, a few known 24s, several nhos, and a couple of cba (couldn’t be arsed), eg subtracting noses from missionaries. Lazy … the monkey puzzler deserves effort! All part of the great cw tapestry, and thanks to the Greats, the bloggers, and all of us.

20. The great man and MONKEY were my first two in. After that I got to look at cute pictures of baby monkeys on google. I completed about 75% of the grid but gave up in the NW. All very clever but….Thanks E&S and well done loonapick for disentangling the MAZES.

21. I suppose it is somewhat appropriately celebratory to have a crossword that is almost unscalable.
    Was the clue with the answer that could be both monkey and puzzle deliberate? If so, I will not reveal it just yet so that others can enjoy finding it.

22. Baerchen @11 – one of my favourite facts was that the only member of ZZ TOP without a beard is Frank Beard.

23. I agree with Oofyprosser @12 and Pedro @17. I’m sure there could have been a place for this somewhere in The Guardian puzzle sections but not instead of the daily Cryptic. With aids I managed all but 7 answers before reaching the limits of my tolerance and giving up on it. I don’t take pleasure from crosswords that require me to spend half my time looking at reference books or on-line for words I’ve never heard of.

24. Would have been a great contribution to the puzzle page of Monkey Expert Monthly magazine, but a missed opportunity to celebrate the great man with a more inclusive crossword.

25. I forgot to say that my favourite was the (probably) unthemed EDISON. A nice clang there as the penny dropped.

26. Can’t believe I’m the first to point out that tarsiers aren’t monkeys.

27. I would not have got far with this puzzle doing it in the proper way with a pencil in the paper as I had to do with araucaria puzzles. It was only possible by copious use of guesswork and checks and google. The only monkeys I had heard of were baboon & marmoset. I did a bit better with the puzzles but had never heard of kenken (or Ken Bruce needed to work it out) and didn’t realise wordcross was the original term for crossword. I could not parse puzzle box because I had never heard of the band; in addition to all this ignorance the compilers still managed to find two other words unknown to me, klutzky and lei. A very clever tribute to Araucaria, but sadly too obscure; so not as much fun as his brilliant puzzles were.

28. Puzzled by the number of folk with monkeys on their back

29. I thought this was fair. All regular solvers should have heard of Araucaria and known that this means monkey puzzle. There were still several I could not parse, so thank you loonapick, Michelle and postmark, especially for the ZZTOP band that I had never heard of but the answer fitted in anyway. And thanks indeed to enigmatist and soup!

30. What Oofyprosser @12 and others said. Completely impenetrable to mere mortals. I gave up early on after revealing a couple of clues and realising that I had not the faintest idea what was going on. Far too hard and not one that I’ve really learned anything from. Thanks to all concerned though

31. A DNF for me; well above my pay grade. But, that is OK as the G crossword should try to cater for all of us. However, although I’m sure the estimable Araucaria would be delighted to be given a centenary tribute I;m not sure he would have been particularly pleased by the severity of this puzzle. As I remember it A’s puzzles were always gettable, were never loaded with obscure words and did not need a lot of reference material. Anyway thanks for going to such lengths Enigmatist and Soup and particular thanks to loonapick for teasing it all out!

32. I found that incredibly tough but mostly because my GK of monkeys/primates is sadly lacking although now much improved. Luckily the puzzle clues such as Rebus, Kenken, Sudoku helped me a lot, as did 28a and 24d. However, this was a journey along the pathways of Google but I’m not complaining – reading the tribute to Araucaria on 225 was delightful.

    [On the utterly unrelated subject of Araucarias, as a child we used to go for days out at the Bedgebury National Pinetum near Tunbridge Wells and I distinctly remember the Araucaria Araucaria near the entrance – magnificent tree. For some reason we used to always sing the Trokia from Prokofiev’s Lieutenant Kije in the car on the way so I always associate that piece with summer days and a picnic on the ground under the Monkey Puzzle tree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq3hRVAC1GE ]

33. Wow!

    I thought there may be a few people who would think the puzzle was a bit on the hard side, but I didn’t expect such polarized opinions. The centenary of the birth of one of the greatest compilers to have graced our back pages had to be marked, and a puzzle that did not bear his trademark style would have been an opportunity missed.

    Surely, solvers of the Guardian expect to be stretched occasionally and have their solving ability tested. I can’t speak for others, but that’s why I do the Guardian and the Independent puzzles – because they push the envelope occasionally, and force us to learn new things and think a little laterally at times. Cryptic crosswords, as long as they (mostly) follow fair setting principles, are meant to be just that – cryptic.

    Personally, I get much more satisfaction from this kind of puzzle than from 80% of other cryptics which are often full of old chestnuts, dull double definitions, barely cryptic puns and anagrams that take a second to work out. While on a temporary role the year before last, the people in the office used to do the (Glasgow) Herald puzzle every day and would be amazed when I took less than five minutes to complete the average puzzle. There was nothing wrong with the puzzles in terms of fair clueing – it was just that the clues tended to be of the sort described earlier in this paragraph, and one learned nothing from them. I could not get my colleagues to move on to other more challenging puzzles as they were in their comfort zone. Fine, but not for me, thanks.

    I got all the answers today, but not all the parsing was correct and I missed at least one theme solution, so on top of the stuff I learned while doing the puzzle, I also learned a wee bit more afterwards. Most people won’t know all of the monkeys in the puzzle, but many will know a few of them (BABOON, MARMOSET and COLOBUS, probably), but anyone who saw the puzzle though to the end now knows the names of a few more monkeys, which may come in handy in a pub quiz or a later puzzle.

    To sum up, this ticked all the boxes for me – a mental challenge to wake up my grey cells, the occasional giggle (STERNUM eg), a more than occasional A-ha moment (for example, when I realised that I need RECALL, not MEMORY for 5dn), and the opportunity to learn about monkeys and primates I had never heard of.

    Sure, it was difficult, but we need a range of difficulties as well as a range of setters, devices and levels of general knowledge required to keep crosswords fresh and interesting.

    Sorry for the long post, but, in my opinion, this was a fantastic puzzle. If it wasn’t to your taste, come back tomorrow – it may be easier, or less esoteric. But at least the Guardian tries to give something for everyone. I do agree that maybe there should have been two puzzles today, though, to allow everyone to have some fun.

34. Obscure is right. I gave up.

35. Even though with 19 across a quick way in with SAIMIRI, which I then had to look up to discover that it was a monkey and therefore had to be the theme for this tribute to 28across, this cleverly contrived tribute left me cold, too. Abandoned it after turning up several other primates I’d never heard of before. Sorry, despite the fact that I used to idolise Araucaria when he was in his pomp, however…

36. I thought this was a poor tribute to the great man. There were nine solutions which were words I had never seen before, and some very obscure references in the wordplay. The Rev was much more approachable.

37. Thanks Enigmatist, Soup, and loonapick
    I looked up 100th anniversaries, and the only one of significance I found was the Anglo-Irish treaty, so when checking 16a showed that it wasn’t COLLINS, I was thrown.
    To be honest, I’ve no idea why I persevered with this. There were 10 words I’d never heard of, so it was mostly a wordsearch exercise. Yes, a tribute is appropriate, but did it have to be this obscure?
    I did like DIANA, one of the few monkeys I did know.

38. I quite like looking things up and once it dawned it was a tribute of Araucaria you knew that would be a given. However it is an indictment of the internet that you can’t easily find a nice straightforward list any more. It has to be fleshed out then edited embellished re-edited rehashed . . well i suppose it will stop the robots taking over. It reminded of a time as a kid confronted with the missing word from a Shakespeare quote that i’d go through the play in search of it line by line

39. When I read the tribute to John Graham and commented over there, cellomaniac was kind enough to point out that today’s FT puzzle is a reprint of an old Cinephile (= Araucaria) puzzle. I have just done that one – it is a lot of fun, even though I am still stuck on the final two solutions.

    Also, I agree with loonapick’s comments @ 33.

40. Shouldn’t DIANA be in the pink?

41. By the way, appreciative thanks to Loonapick for blogging what was by common consent a tough nut to crack – whether you consider that a good or a bad thing.

42. I find myself agreeing with loonapick. I am definitely not an expert but this reminded me of being introduced to Guardian cryptics by my dear friend Martin Geddes who sadly passed away some years ago. Discovering an Araucaria puzzle was always a treat for us. We knew it would be difficult but fair with some excellent humour in it. To actually finish one of the Revs puzzles was rare but a special treat.
    So it felt good at the point that I realised who this was a tribute to. It was tough but fun and I fell a handful of clues from finishing.

43. John Perkin, the former crossword editor of the Guardian, had a declared policy that the vocabulary of a daily puzzle (and here he included Saturdays) should be such that a reasonably educated solver should rarely if ever need to resort to a dictionary. I think that’s a pretty good approach. JP was crossword editor for much, perhaps most, of the Rev’s career, and I don’t think this puzzle would have got a loo-in, even if Araucaria himself had set it.

44. Loonapick@33 thanks for the riposte which reflects my side of the polar extremes being expressed this morning. It did need a long time and patience but I thoroughly enjoyed the hunt, event though I always do feel queazy about resorting too often to Google or to Word Wizard. The latter, particularly, is a last resort – though you have to know what you’re looking for. I completed the puzzle but in my own heart and mind did not solve it as I had not properly parsed a couple, including Edison, and because I had cheated with Word Wizard. I still relished the challenge and am able to accept that sometimes I am beaten. I loved – still do love – Araucaria and do at least one of his from the archive every Sunday. One small offering about 12ac: my reading of it is that “narc” initiates a word for drugs (narcotics) and busts into (ie invades) a (h)ospital. But that’s peanuts in the face of such a towering puzzle and a skilful blog written under pressure of time. Thanks to the loving tribute from the setters and the labour of love from you, Loonapick.

45. Seeing the blurb, the first thing I did was to Google ‘centenary 16 February 2021’, which gave me this. A very interesting read, in large part because Araucaria was one of my heroes. It put me in a good frame of mind when starting the puzzle.

    Sadly, my mood soured as I got very little from the first couple of passes. Then I twigged that ‘today’s themes’ were monkeys and puzzles. Clever, I thought, now it’ll all fall into place! But it didn’t. I struggled to get more than a couple of monkeys and a few non-theme solutions, by which time I was fed up and came here. I’m one who doesn’t enjoy combing reference sources for crossword answers – it’s the main reason I don’t bother with Azed and the like.

    It was a great piece of setting to cram all those theme words into the grid. However, I agree with those who think it was far too hard and hence a poor tribute to Araucaria.

    Thanks to loonapick for the blog. You did a great job in the limited time you had.

46. I agree with loonapick @33

    [If, like me, you started solving when the only aid was a dictionary, and the first place you still look for help is a book rather than Google, then investing in a copy of Bradford’s Crossword Solvers Lists is highly recommended – it is where I found a copy of 24s I wasn’t sure about]

47. Thanks Enigmatist, Soup and loonapick

    I’m with loonapick and others who thought this was excellent.

    As has been posted on the g thread, I think the negative comments are an indication of the evolution of g crosswords over the last decade.

48. I had to use a list of monkeys and even then reveal a couple but I had fun, so why complain? I was expecting 20 d to be a double bluff and end up as a word for grease monkey. I started off with WRITER for MONKEY. RITE= mass being sung = RIGHT correct

49. I hope you didn’t think I was being negative, just being honest about my limitations as a solver, and I agree that we need some puzzles that stretch expert solvers. One thing that did mark Araucaria out as special was that his themes were often signposted in ways that went beyond strict cryptic syntax, and this made them more approachable to less experienced solvers.

50. This was tough and a dnf for me. But nevertheless I gained enjoyment from cracking many of the clues. Despite the obscurities I’m with loonapick in appreciating this puzzle.

51. loonapick@33, Gareth@1 and Oofyprosser@12: I agree wholeheartedly with Gareth and Oofy on this. loonapick says “Surely, solvers of the Guardian expect to be stretched occasionally and have their solving ability tested”, but the issue here is what is the nature of “solving ability”? Did anyone — really, anyone — complete this puzzle without making use of a reference source? I suspect not. In which case, it seems that the compilers expected us to fail and to resort to cheat strategies. There is no “solving ability” in looking stuff up on Google, in my view. I find that the joy of “solving” a puzzle comes from the balance between the scope of GK that we all tacitly recognise and the ingenuity of the setter in framing the wordplay. This puzzle dispensed with any notion of GK — and all artistry in wordplay was thrown away for the sake of the theme(s). A complete waste of time, really.

52. A tiny quibble: I’m pretty sure that “area” belongs to the wordplay (“area where people play”), not the definition.

53. I was waiting for an Araucaria tribute in the Guardian crossword today, so was not disappointed. This was very tough, but I enjoyed it immensely. I’m happy to use a list of monkeys and word searches, if stuck. To me the beauty in a crossword is understanding the parsing and creative energy required to set it. I realise that others with only paper and pencil might find this too tough, and consider using any aid as cheating. It’s horses for courses. If you look at all the colours in the grid above, you’ll see what a tour-de-force in setting it was to complete such a grid. I think solvers who are also setters might appreciate this crossword more than most.

    Once I got SAI, I realised that 24 was MONKEY. I was then looking at all the 6-letter answers for puzzle – that was a nice blind alley. I was convinced that 20 had to be ‘mechanic’ – nicely misled by ‘grease monkey!’

    Many thanks to Enigmatist and Soup for a fitting tribute, and to loonapick for providing a good blog and colourful grid.

54. Let me add my support to loonapick @33 (and for the blog) – a perfectly articulated case. A centenary is a rare event and justifies an unusual kind of challenge. I didn’t resent the extended time that this one took, even though needing some checks towards the end, notably for kenken. The complaints that you have to google from the start are surely exaggerated, given the careful wordplay. The crossword world is a broad church which encompasses this level and Rufus/Monday level – and which in terms of today’s centenary encompasses this crossword and the much simpler companion piece in this week’s New Statesman by Anorak, aka Tom Johnson, author of today’s introductory tribute on this site. Thanks to him, and to Enigmatist and Soup, and to loonapick, and indeed to our editor.

55. I would have thought the best tribute to Auracaria would have been to reprint one of his puzzles, rather than expect us to trawl through lists of monkey names.

56. As everyone is too busy arguing to have taken up my challenge @21 about the clue that has both a monkey and a puzzle as a possible answer, one last hint. It is clued as a puzzle in this crossword, and to find the creature you might have to get out your list of monkeys again for reference – it is not one of the cute ones off the tele.

57. Another missed setter being Arachne, I thought I would mention that Saturday’s prize puzzle in the Times appeared to be one of hers. Well worth having a look at if you can get hold of a copy this late, even if I’m wrong, which I’d be prepared to bet a few quid against.
    This one I didn’t enjoy much, sorry to say. Interested in Simon S’s comment @47. I’ve only solved the Guardian puzzle regularly for 5 years or so. Before that I’d do the occasional Saturday prize, which typically relied on cracking one solution to get the rest. I recall the occasional comment about that repeated trick getting a bit tiresome. This one I think suffered a little not only from the obscurity of the monkeys but also because ‘monkey: type of monkey’ is not a cryptic device, so there was less of the usual playing with words. At least it’s got everyone agreeing how good Araucaria puzzles were, whether similarly or by contrast.

58. Loonapick makes good points about the need for testing and original clues, and it’s a tribute to the many setters that the good far outweighs the bad in the Guardian dailies.

    I simply don’t believe that this crossword was suitable for a weekday slot. Clearly others think the same, while the experts disagree. As I don’t want to be the group miseryguts I’ll leave it at that.

    But I am appreciative of the setters who have put so much work into this labour of love. Thanks to them and Loonapick.

59. Van Winkle @56. Does it not have to be a bit cute to pose for the pictures?

60. With due respect, crosswords are not exclusively written to be admired for their cleverness by other setters (and I can see that this one is a tour de force) but to be solved. The kind of external aids you permit yourself varies from solver to solver, but completing all of this without any at all would be an exceptional feat, and I doubt if any of us did so. The objection is not that there were some unknowns (one or two are interesting) but that there were so many in an area where the average solver not equipped with a handy printed cheat-list is likely to have problems.
    Anyway, I can see that this puzzle pleased its target audience, so I will hope for something more accessible tomorrow.

61. Of course any other answer would be a howler

62. Van Winkle @56: I think I can see one – might it be a Scottish one?

63. Simply brilliant – and a fitting tribute

64. As has often been commented here, different solvers have knowledge of different topics, so I don’t see the point of complaining about what is or isn’t GK. As a non-UK solver, I have found many themes (place names, TV shows, UK sports) difficult or impossible, but I always learn something, and next time it might be classical composers or world capitals, which I might find easier. Here, it was hard, but I knew enough monkeys and puzzles to get started, and it was fun to learn more.

65. Gang gets a right mischievous boy! (6)

66. Hi folks,

    Since Enigmatist asked me a couple of weeks ago if I’d like to join him in compiling Araucaria’s centenary tribute I’ve been filled with nervous excitement; getting a puzzle in the Guardian daily slot has been a long-held ambition. I was up at five to check it was all ok and to have a look at the first few comments. It’s been downhill since there, really.

    I firmly believe that a puzzle is not there for the setters to show how clever they are, but to make solvers feel like they have won a good battle when (not if!) they finish. I know the feeling of being defeated by a difficult but fair puzzle; I also know what it’s like to give up on one which isn’t for me. I don’t really like either feeling.

    Yes, it’s quite a bit more difficult than a normal Tuesday puzzle, but I think all bar a couple of clues are pretty much dead straight Ximenean. I think it’s the sort of puzzle which might reward returning to a number of times over a few days, rather than bashing off in half an hour.

    Being honest, I’m heartbroken that so many people have been disappointed. I’d hoped that people would have found it a tough but fair challenge and have fond memories of Araucaria (whose puzzles were often hard!). I’m sorry that we haven’t hit the spot this time; hopefully as and when I’m allowed back it’ll be with something which gets more positive comments. Many thanks to Enigmatist for giving me the opportunity.

    Thanks to those who’ve posted in support of it, and apologies to those who didn’t like it – and, above all, happy birthday to John, which is the thing that matters most.

    Hamish/Soup

    PS Chambers lists TARSIER as ‘A lemuroid monkey’ but further investigation shows that it’s not, though they are often misclassified as such. Curse Chambers.

67. [James @57, I had it as one of Nutmeg’s fwiw]

68. I wasn’t bothered by the amount of Googling required. I like to complete a puzzle without doing any, but if that’s not possible then, well, it wasn’t a “virgin” solve any more.

    I think the setters had an impossible task if their goal was to both write an Araucaria-like puzzle plus incorporate many words for both monkey and puzzle. Look at the colored grid at the top (which currently doesn’t even have DIANA and ARAUCARIA coloured) – the density of theme clues requires that something had to give.

    One little point about 24d ANIMAL. It struck me as a lost opportunity for a triple derivation or something since the answer is also an anagram of L (a number) and MANIA (obsession), but I couldn’t get it to work myself. Maybe someone else can?

69. Thanks to Enigmatist and Soup and to loonapick.
    I came to 15^2 a good while back now having been led here by media kerfuffle about the increasing difficulty of Guardian(?) cryptic crosswords. In the interim either I have improved as a solver (I hope that’s true) or the crosswords have moderated somewhat (I think that’s true). Nonetheless I expect every so often to be kicked firmly into touch and so it was today. I have before me “the Connoisseur’s Crossword Book” (Penguin 1964)(3/6) (ono) – skimming through the solutions reveals a barrage of obscurities: words such as Eild, Zonated, Pruh so I have never attempted any of the puzzles (nor has anyone else with this volume).
    My point is that there are different levels of crypsis available to cater to different tastes. Today’s welcome offering missed the mark for many (me included) but sometimes the reward is just in the struggle, even if defeat ensues. loonapick solved this (and admires it) so my comeuppance is by the by.
    I wouldn’t want it every day, but it’s a special day.
    Soup@66: No, no you mustn’t be down-hearted – please don’t pay any attention to the moaning minnies. It was a brilliant construction within a difficult set of parameters. Take a bikkie from the barrel.

70. No. Not for me. I used to be able to handle some of Araucaria’s puzzles, but this just left me frozen

71. As soon as Mr Paddington Bear solved Araucaria, I realised 24dn was monkey and we were away. We hadn’t realised the special day until we looked at fifteen squared but we did enjoy it and parsed what we couldn’t quite work out with the help of loonapick. We know who enigmatic is but haven’t come across soup. Can anyone help?

72. Soup @66: Thank you for popping in with your side. Whilst I have criticised this myself I am sorry that it did not go down well with so many of us.
    However I did omit to mention as others have, how ingenious it was to fit so many theme words into this tribute. Well done for that.

73. I can’t help wondering what’s been achieved by so many overly critical comments to a tribute to the setters’ departed colleague. To presume to speak on what Araucaria himself would have thought of the puzzle seems cheeky and unkind. On some days perhaps it’s be better to say nothing and be thankful there is another (free!) puzzle to try tomorrow.

74. (I claim no responsibility for the impressive grid – that was entirely Enigmatist. DIANA is indeed a monkey; EDISON wasn’t supposed to be a puzzle!)

75. I found myself questioning my own intelligence rather than the surface matter. As clever as this lauded it did nothing for my self assurance!

76. We’re completely with Loonapick and I feel so sorry for Hamish/Soup and quite cast down on his behalf, especially if he may feel he’s somehow let the great man down.
    We thought this an excellent tribute to Araucaria and feel sure he would have been extremely appreciative of it.
    Generally don’t mind Googling to check an answer once it’s been arrived at and, given the very fair clueing, nearly all answers *were* arrived at and Google just confirmed them.
    Didn’t mind putting in the extra effort for such a clever puzzle and the longer time seemed to make it more of a tribute – wouldn’t have dreamed of not finishing it unless we absolutely had to.
    Sorry if this sounds a bit mawkish.

77. [Alphalpha @69
    I am not aware of the Penguin book that you mention but I do have Crosswords for the Connoisseur and its companion volume Crosswords for the Enthusiast by Don Putnam. These books with copious notes are not Penguin.]

78. Firmly with the grumpy set on this one. It reminded me of a Maskerade several bank holidays ago, which quickly became a joyless trawl through Google looking for obscure British towns and villages. I did complete that one, and felt precisely no achievement in having done so. This one, perhaps armed with that experience, I just couldn’t be bothered with the last half dozen or so. Like most of us I love having my vocabulary expanded, even if only temporarily as the new word is invariably one I would never use in conversation, but this was just too many and no fun.

    And KENKEN, really? A puzzle I have never heard of, for which the wordplay is a Radio 2 DJ?? Sorry, I have a day job so never heard of him. Only got it slightly randomly by thinking of Lenny Bruce and then the realisation that that didn’t work but this just might. Throw in the various monkeys, ZZ Top, Wordcross and Lutz jumps and there was way too much general knowledge required for my taste.

    Opportunity missed IMHO. Ho hum, back to the day job . . .

79. Hamish/Soup @66 – forget Chambers and head straight for the OED. Definitions cover … an animal regarded as similar to a monkey, a koala, a sheep and a young hare.
    By curious coincidence, ZZ Top feature in one of the citations, but for a different sort of monkey.
    The clue whose answer from the word play would be “monkey” as well as “puzzle” is 6d – UAKARI. UK-A [taking flight from here to America] surrounding A [about to tackle a] + RI [grid-filling]. A little bit of leeway required, but acceptable to get such a fantastic duality of themes in one clue.
    

80. Outstanding puzzle, and a “hear, hear” to Loonapick for his comments at 33.

81. Van Winkle @79 As REBUS is also a type of monkey, I took your hint as misdirection. Now someone will tell me that a STE-STE is also a type of monkey. (Steve Bruce doubled)

82. I have to say that I’m with Gareth, Oofyprosser, jackkt and several others in finding this puzzle . . . (sound of mincing words) . . . ‘overambitious’. I realised straight away it was about Araucaria and therefore got MONKEY, but having to find all those recondite monkey names was just too much. It’s never good to have to guess: e.g. why SAIMIRI, and not maisiri or raisimi? I managed to complete it with some hefty googling, apart from rejecting WORDCROSS because it didn’t seem to parse!

    Hamish/Soup – I’m sorry that you’ve had such a lot of brickbats thrown at your first Guardian daily puzzle. As you can see from other comments, some of us really enjoyed it. Do come back again!

83. [baerchen @67 intriguing, I now doubt and want to know for sure. I didn’t know Nutmeg set for the Times, and don’t know her tells. The clues that made me think it was Arachne, apart from the general sparkly tone, were:
    Shabby party dress emerged, inside out (3-5)
    Find terms of legacy weird (9)
    Aussie state nurses rest in the heat (6)
    Surely you know someone who knows, or knows someone who knows?]

84. I commented on Picaroon’s Chinese New Year puzzle from last week (which was widely admired) that it was rare for a crossword to be both highly ingenious and highly enjoyable. This was certainly the former (congratulations to the setters) but, for me, not the latter, I’m afraid.

    I suppose I must have a larger than average vocabulary, because it is very rare for more than the occasional word in a Guardian puzzle to be completely unfamiliar to me. Not so this one, as I am not a professional primatologist. I don’t mind spending time disentangling cleverly constructed clues and puzzles (I enjoy alphabeticals, for example) but it frustrates me when I don’t know the words I am groping for.

    So, hats off to those that liked this one, but it was not to my taste.

    By the way, gibbons (LAR or otherwise) are apes and NOT monkeys!

85. Offering an old Araucaria puzzle would have been a very easy way out. I think this was a splendid offering given that Enigmatist and Soup didn’t stand a chance of pleasing everybody. Nobody likes using lists to solve, but this was an exception. Do solvers only want puzzles to suit their vocabulary? I find that sometimes resorting to Bradford’s helps me build mine up! Happy memories of the greatest setter.

86. Maybe this explains something. I like puzzles. All sorts. I’m particularly enamoured of cryptics, but if solving them bleeds out into another kind of challenge, as alphabetical jigsaws or geography-heavy jumbos tend to do, then that’s just fine with me. Having to go chasing monkeys like this is all part of the fun. Of course, YMMV.

87. As a beginner I Almost gave up but with much use of Chambers, check button, and some jiggery pokery managed to get about two thirds of the clues. For once I got the Main theme (monkeys) which I got by a reverse process from another clue! That’s what made me persevere. I did not know anything about Auracaria/monkey puzzles as a newbie so that part was no help to me at all. However on the preceding theme of it being too hard etc. I had already decided that I wouldn’t be learning if I wasn’t being stretched, so no quibbles on that score. There are many days at this stage when I have big gaps and lots of use of check button, and a final referral to this column. How else do you work out the devices etc.? Makes one hugely proud when clues that would previously have been impenetrable come easily. Thanks to all the commentators.

88. Thanks Enigmatist, Soup (and loonapick)

    I thoroughly enjoyed this, and thought it was a worthwhile tribute. I’m not worried about having my vocabulary challenged.

    One small point: in the explanation of 16A, it is probably worth pointing out that the punctuation (:) is part of the wordplay.

89. Petert @81 I thought it was the REBUS that was both (and it is) but Van Winkle had something much cleverer in mind.

90. Overall I think this was fair enough and a suitable tribute. Anyone thinking the Guardian crossword is now too hard should have tried learning to do cryptics in the days of Bunthorne, Fidelio, Gemini and others. I well remember spending all weekend on a Bunthorne and getting precisely zero answers. One criticism today is for 7 across which I think is a shocking clue, “training” indeed.

91. I’m with those who thought this was a great puzzle, and I’m far from being an “expert”. I could only do it with a lot of unashamed use of aids (and a bit of downright cheating with the check button for the last couple), but so what?

    I would point out that some the word play was very straightforward by Enigmatist’s standards – for example for LEI and SAI and CAM. LEI was one of my first provisional answers, and when I looked it up, I thought that Hawaii might be the theme. But then after guessing that ARAUCARIA might be the answer to 28a, and checking his birthday, and with a list of monkeys from Chambers Crossword Companion, a lot of the answers fell smoothly into place.
    Thanks to Enigmatist and Soup, and to loonapick and others for the full explanations.

92. Thanks all three,
    I very much enjoyed this and it did feel quite like solving an Araucaria. I can’t help thinking that the urge to add two pennorth to this blog stops some people enjoying a protracted solve over a day or two. In the arms race between setters and technology it wouldn’t be surprising if some clues had become a bit more difficult just because it is so much easier to look things up.

93. To expand on comment 4, Ulmeni is a town in Romania.

94. Hamish/Soup, you have absolutely no need to feel heartbroken. You set out to provide a challenging celebration of one of the legends of the field and you succeeded in spades.

95. Not for me I’m afraid and I rather doubt that Araucaria would have liked it.

96. “Sure, it was difficult, but we need a range of difficulties as well as a range of setters, devices and levels of general knowledge required to keep crosswords fresh and interesting.”
    loonapick @33: I couldn’t agree more; I attempt a number of crosswords daily from a number of publications and I enjoy the ones that are a bit of a challenge. However, I’ve learned to avoid those from Enigmatist/Io because I never get very far with them. Resorting to Google, Wikipedia, and other sources turns a pleasant pasttime into a schoolboy exercise for me.

97. Roz @90: Chambers online for train gives the following as the 6th verb definition – ” a intrans to travel by train; b (train it) to make a train journey.”

    Dan Milton @93: when I posted @4 an early version of the blog gave the solution as the Polynesian garland and questioned why it was clued with the Romanian town You’re right to spot the relevance of Ulmeni’s inclusion in the surface.

98. Having spent many years enjoying Araucaria I don’t believe he would be very impressed by a puzzle lacking humour and requiring so much esoteric knowledge. His were wholly enjoyable, hard enough to exercise the grey cells and very clever. Finally finished it but more of a slog than his ever were.

99. I am with Wendybea.Roll on tomorrow

100. Roz @ 90

     If you can entrain and detrain, what do you do inbetween other than train?

101. I’m usually pretty good and and rarely capitulate but I baled out early. Shame. I admire the setters’ cleverness and I congratulate those who got it but it did for me sadly.

102. It is difficult to comment constructively but I believe that he we should honour a fine man and quite brilliant setter. He would not wish SOUP or anyone to be downhearted I guess.

     In its own fashion it was a brilliant puzzle based upon the three key and totally appropriate words. But it did not convey the esprit of the Araucaria whose work I cherish. It lacked the humour and topical relevance he so often brought to his puzzles. It was a slog rather than a delight – with some exceptions e.g. EDISON. I will dip into his collected puzzles to remind myself of that steak of genius which characterised his work. It was because that genius was so unique that today our setters had an impossible job

     My thanks go to them and our amazing blogger. Even if their work didn’t give me the joy I had anticipated knowing of the centenary.

     It has interested me for some time that the Times appears to recognise there are (at least) two cryptic communities in their readership. Maybe that is true of the G also. Furthermore there is a community of which I am part that believes. solutions should emerge from general knowledge and/or wordplay. Search engines are cheating for me S were more than or two glances at a dictionary.

     Maybe this is telling us it is time for two daily cryptics in the G. One of which might carry the name ‘the daily Araucaria’

103. Brilliant. And great fun. And in contradiction to some earlier commenters – lots more like this please, Mr Editor.

104. Possibly the first time, at least for me, that the Um Bongo advert had assisted my solve

105. Ken Wales @102 – You mentioned a ‘steak of genius’. Would that be a brill? (I see there can be steaks of fish as well as meat.)

106. Happy to have bailed out early on this, but appreciated the chuckle of the reveal. Can understand the frustration of those who found it a slog – reading between the lines it seems the larger frustration was with the sheer volume of unfamiliar words than the cluing itself, which is hopefully some comfort to Soup/Hamish – having started with an audacious concept it was always a bit of a risk.

     I wonder if it would have received a different reception later on in the week?

107. Thanks to all those who’ve commented since I wrote; a few more people who liked it (or appreciated the idea if not the execution) coming out of the woodwork. Here’s to next time – and, again, to the Rev.

108. [bodycheetah @104: fine young innocent that I am I used to think that actually DID come from the DRC…Doh!]

109. You will never please everybody Soup, crosswords are always too hard or too easy or too obscure or trying to be too clever in someone’s opinion. This was a valiant effort for a very daunting occasion, thank you ( and Enigmatist ) for all your efforts.

110. I think most of the objections are about the obscurity of some of the solutions. There are crosswords avilable – Azed, for example – where you expect there to be a number of words you have never heard of (one of the reasons why I never attempt it, though I have finished a Mephisto a couple of times). You don’t expect a grid with lots of unknown words in a weekday puzzle, even on such a special occasion.

111. Well I know an awful lot more monkey names than I did before, at least briefly before I forget them again. So difficult. Lovely to be reminded of Araucaria, my favourite compiler.
     One of the things that I like about crosswords is the occasional need to look things up, and then get temporarily lost in a internet chain, such as looking at bits of armour or explosive devices.

112. loonapick @33. I agree with most of your long post, but would like to pick up on two points. I don’t think that anagrams for obscure words are fair: I had never heard of SAIMIRI or MANGABEY, and these were both clued by anagrams. With three crossers in place, I had reduced the former to a choice of two which both began SAI, as in 15d; I guessed right first time when looking them up in Chambers. (Kudos to Ronald @35 who had this one as a “quick way in”!) For the latter I had all the crossers, which left me with multiple possibilities, and my second guess was right. This is not how I want to solve crosswords. A charade instead of an anagram gives us a chance of getting even obscure words without guessing.

     I agree that it’s good to be stretched occasionally, and being retired I now have plenty of time for stretching! But I spent over three hours on this, which included more use of Chambers and Google than I would normally allow myself on a midweek crossword. (And was short of four answers when I came here.) Yes, it’s a special occasion, but as some others have said, wouldn’t it have been nice if a more inclusive crossword had been chosen to commemorate the “really missed” one?

     EDISON was very clever, and most of the clues were well constructed; I’d probably have got WANDEROO and MAZES if I’d gone away and left it aslone for a couple of hours, but I wouldn’t have got PALACE CAR in a million years.

     I’m sorry that Hamish/Soup is downcast. To those who said that Araucaria would not have liked it, go and have a good look at yourselves.

113. I meant to post a link to my favourite of these monkeys, the Diana – quite striking!

114. I have long felt my lack of knowledge on obscure monkeys would one day catch me out, and today was the day.

     Congratulations to the setters for putting this together so ingeniously, but I’m afraid it offered me little enjoyment, which is extra mortifying given how entertaining the Reverend’s puzzles invariably were. It shows how difficult it is to ape the great man (I am aware that apes and monkeys are distinct: it was the best I could come up with).

     I felt Paul’s recent alphabetical jigsaw was more the thing (though didn’t Araucaria compile these in rhyming couplets?) or indeed his clue last year about “my puzzling friend”.

     Thanks to Soup for commenting so candidly. I thought the clue setting was fine. It was the self imposed restriction, resulting in so many obscure answers, that caused the problem for me.

     As always thanks to loonapick for a brilliant blog – sorry I don’t agree with you today.

115. Eileen I hope you are well! We desperately need your calm honesty to prevail on this discussion. I recall you blogged the puzzle where Araucaria told us he was ill, which I think was his last crossword published in the G. What do you make of this? I have been impressed with the level of discussion on this seminal puzzle. Clearly two sides to the argument, and I would say about 50/50 for and against.

116. Early posting on the Guardian site was much more predominantly negative than here even, though they have had some later supporters.

117. Whilst acknowledging that we are all entitled to make up our own personal “rules” for crossword solving, and we all have our own ideas of what constitutes “cheating”, I have to confess that I cannot understand what in the world people have against looking things up – whether in reference books, dictionaries, “The Boys’ Big Bumper Book of Knowledge” or the cybernautic wizardry of the World Wide Web. I proudly admit to checking (virtually) EVERYTHING, either before or after solving. I don’t have the arrogance to pretend that my own general knowledge is the only knowledge worth knowing, neither do I feel affronted if my own interests are not personally catered for. And sometimes, when there is a particular theme, I get a positive thrill from filling in clues from lists – be they Roman emperors, Gloucestershire spin bowlers from the 1930s or the various iterations of Barbie Dolls since 1960 to last week.
     Okay, all I’m really doing is stating the obvious – we’re all different and have different preferences. I just wish people wouldn’t get so het up about things is all.

118. Did anybody try to solve my clue at 65? Pardon me if you thought I was monkeying around. Anyway, after guessing the answer,, please search “the word meaning”.. to get the primary meaning of the non-English word.

119. I had to check some of the monkeys and puzzles, but in almost all cases I was able to get the word from the wordplay before doing so. I often recall doing that in one of the Rev’s puzzles, so this seems an appropriate tribute to me, especially with the natural world theme, which Araucaria often used himself. I do think this should have been reserved for the weekend prize slot, but that probably rankles those who like to commemorate the exact anniversary.
     A couple of quibblets. Not keen on the “will” in 2d which seems overly misleading and shouldn’t it be a single rear end (as loonapick suggests) in 21d.
     Thanks, Hamish, John and loonapick. I enjoyed it.

120. I haven’t read all the comments, so forgive me if I’m repeating someone, but I didn’t really think this was a fitting tribute to the much missed Araucaria. Where was the wit and sense of humour? Felt like a dry exercise to me. And as someone has already noted, Araucaria was more inclusive.

121. I find myself in the category of people who admired this puzzle but didn’t enjoy it: it was just too hard for me. But I don’t blame the Guardian or the setters. As loonapick says @33, it’s good to have puzzles that are more challenging, and in all probability tomorrow’s will be back in my comfort zone.

122. phitonelly @120: The clue says ‘rear ends when one goes topless’, and loonapick parsed it as STERN (“rear end”) + (b)UM (“rear end” going topless), so that’s two rear ends, one of them without its first letter. I don’t understand your objection to the clue.

123. Well, I got practically nowhere, despite spotting the theme, and having been a fan of the monkey puzzler, I guess I was disappointed that I couldn’t get further with the puzzle. But I really don’t have a problem with the fact that once in a while there’s a puzzle that’s far too tough for me (nor do I object to ones that are on the easy side, and I have little time for those people who complain about those too). Nothing will be perfect for everyone.
     Thanks to Enigmatist, Soup and Loonapick.

     On an unrelated note, @loonapick, I have one minor quibble with your excellent blog, which is nothing to do with the crossword: in the days when an incoming Tory government replaced a highly respected expert with Carol Vordeman as the so-called “maths tsar”, my (maths lecturer) colleagues would quote her statement that sudoku involves no mathematics as an example of how ill-qualified she was for the job 🙂 There’s no arithmetic or algebra, but logic is something we claim as part of our discipline.

124. sheffield hatter @123. Just reread the clue and you’re right of course. I misparsed it. Apologies to Enigmatist and Soup.

125. [Mike @124
     The Guardian used to publish a “socdoku” that used symbols instead of numbers, reinforcing your point that sudokus have nothing to do with maths.]

126. Went looking for controversy (though probably with the emphasis on a different syllable from all the natives) when I guessed that Monkey must mean that it was the anniversary of the Scopes trial but that was not until 1925.
     So I settled in to look for monkeys, and then puzzles. It was difficult and not particularly in my sweet spot but pleasant enough. I guess that I’m newish to the game so that Araucaria required the reveal button and only rang a faint bell.
     Then I came here and discovered the controversy. I think we all might benefit from pretending that out comments will be read by the setter and the setter’s mum.

127. Rishi @119: shall we say I logged your clue @65. Mr Kipling did make exceedingly good stories. I hope I’m on the right track.

128. acrossthepond@127 – you may be amused to hear that my mother has indeed read these comments 🙂

129. [muffin @126: I thought that Mike’s point at #124 was that sudoku involves logic, which is part of mathematics.]

     [acrossthepond @127. Totally agree. It’s possible to criticise the crossword without getting personal. Your recommendation to imagine a comment being read by the mother of the intended recipient could be extended to any online activity.]

130. [Mike @124 @ muffin @126: I am incapable of attempting killer sudokus but I have seen them solved and there are occasions where the fact that the sum of either a row, column or box is 45 becomes significant. Hardly ‘Carol Vorderman mathematics’ but I don’t know whether that counts. Certainly I’d agree that basic sudoku is mostly straightforward logic]

131. What a special puzzle, many thanks Enigmatist and Soup. Particularly nice to see a compiler collaboration on this. I got a cartload of monkeys, twigged, then stupidly started looking for trees.

     I did not expect it to be easy, and i didn’t quite finish, but that is hardly the point, is it. I expect Araucaria would have very much liked it

132. [Mike @ 124: logic is not part of the discipline of mathematics, even though it uses it. Logic is part of the discipline of philosophy.]
     Self @34: remember your rule, Tim. If you don’t have anything nice to say, say nothing. Ditto if you can’t finish.

133. SPanza @115 – I’m sorry, I’ve only just seen your post.

     I didn’t blog the Araucaria puzzle you mention (and it wasn’t his last puzzle for the Guardian). It fell to me to blog the previous Saturday’s prize puzzle, when I already knew Araucaria’s sad news.

     I haven’t commented today (except on the FT Cinephile puzzle) because I’ve expressed all my thoughts on Araucaria so many times before. Today I’ve just felt unutterably sad. Knowing the centenary was coming up today, I was hoping with all my heart for a WE Johns puzzle, remembering the wonderful tribute puzzle from Enigmatist, Shed and Paul following Araucaria’s death – so I was bitterly disappointed. I’m afraid my heart wasn’t in solving this puzzle, so I’m not wanting to comment.

     However, since I’m now here, I must congratulate Enigmatist and Soup on a very clever puzzle and, of course, loonapick for an excellent blog.

134. [James there seems to be a rather charming code of Omerta about Times puzzles, at least insofar as it seems to apply to me}

135. I agree with Oofyprosser et al except in one regard. Like them I found this puzzle impenetrable and gave up with about 7 clues solved after an hour. And I wasn’t prepared to spend my time looking at a googled list of monkeys and trying to fit some of them into the grid. Instead I simply set it aside and waited for loonapick’s excellent blog to see what it was all about.

     Where I disagree with them, however, is that I have no objection to such a puzzle being published on Araucaria’s hundredth birthday. Too hard for some, yes; not too hard for others, obviously, and why shouldn’t they have the pleasure of solving this tribute crossword, created by two of John Graham’s close colleagues.

     Meanwhile, the FT published an old Araucaria (as Cinephile) crossword which was considerably more accessible, so what is there to complain about?

136. Oh dear Eileen I have got in all wrong! Growing old is a very slippery slope. Sorry to try to involve you against your will. Let us hope tomorrow will be less traumatic all round!!

137. From what I know of John Graham, kindness was one of the hallmarks of his character. I suspect that he would have disliked the tone of some of the contributions on here far more than any crossword.

     Some of our more entitled contributors should be feeling thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

138. Soup – this crossword was genius. Ignore the nonsense. Anyone who makes such an effort to complain that their daily cryptic is too hard needs to reconsider a few things.

     I loved it, and eventually finished it (though it took all day and a fair amount of Googling). As a zoologist, the tarsier thing was a bit annoying, but very interesting to know that even Chambers gets these things wrong!

     loonapick – for the record, a lar is a gibbon, which is a (lesser ape), not a monkey.

     Many thanks to the setters and to loonapick.

139. [PostMark @131: if you want a step-up from Sudokus can I suggest sugurus or kenkens (also known as mathdokus). https://puzzlemadness.co.uk has a good selection of these and many, many more]

140. [MaidenBartok @140
     I generally solve Sugurrs, but I found yesterday’s impenetrable – did you solve it?]

141. This was a dnf for me, but I loved the fact that it was a tribute to Araucaria, whose crosswords entertained me greatly over the thirty years or so before he died, a lot of which I also didn’t finish. I learnt some new words from this one and some previously unknown trivia. If you didn’t like it, it’s probably worth remembering that not everything is about you. Being angry about a difficult crossword that pays tribute to a past setter is like being one of those people who go on TV programme review threads to tell you they never watch TV or people who comment on an article about a celebrity by telling the other commenters they’ve never heard of that celeb. If it’s not your cup of tea accept it and walk away. Don’t rubbish it or other people’s pleasure in it. Thank you to Araucaria, Maskerade, Enigmatist, Soup and loonapick for an entertainment and thread that lifted my day.

142. SPanza @137 – no problem. 😉

143. My name is, of course a tribute to Araucaria, who certainly puzzled me often enough. Not too surprisingly, I worked out ARAUCARIA and MONKEY early on, and therefore had the theme. I also got the three and four letter answers from the wordplay fairly quickly, despite half of them being new to me.

     Some of the rest of the puzzle puzzled me greatly, but I still enjoyed it. It perhaps helps that I positively enjoy researching a theme, and I like monkeys. I couldn’t solve all the NW, but struggling to complete a crossword is not an unfamiliar feeling. A good and entertaining puzzle just above my ability level on a good day!

144. [muffin @141. It was a difficult suguru, and I went wrong at quite an early stage. But I was able to unpick (using different coloured biros!) and got there in the end.]

145. I was so pleased to have this crossword to solve today. I started hours ago and have only just finished. I would like to think that Araucaria would have been so gratified that he was remembered and venerated in this way, with so much trouble taken and so many ingenious clues. I don’t have a problem looking things up. All the clues were fair. I don’t know Sajou either but it was clearly indicated in the clue (in the interior). Thank you, Enigmatist and Soup for putting so much effort into this. It’s very much appreciated.

146. Loonapick @33 Hear, hear. I agree with all your sentiments. I’ve been very disappointed by the tone of some of the comments here and in the Guardian comments. Many trips to Monkey World in Dorset helped, as did early reading of Gerald Durrell (Catch me a Colobus was one of his book titles). Once saw ZZ Top in concert with Lynyrd Skynyrd, listen to Ken Bruce daily (although I did think Fiona first ?). Enjoyed the challenge, loved Auraucaria’s puzzles.

147. I should obviously have included this in my previous post but anyway… Araucaria was not some person who always presented solutions that everyone would know – quite often his themed offerings were about opera or cricket or drama or golf or musical instructions or current affairs. If you were ignorant of those you would need reference sources. Google is just a reference source that’s easier to use and more comprehensive than the Encyclopaedia Britannica; being snobby about using google to solve a crossword is as ludicrous as refusing to use a dictionary or a thesaurus and saying it’s too hard because you’d have to cheat.

148. [muffin @141: Unfortunately I rarely get enough time to tackle anything other than the cryptic other than at the weekend.]

149. Hampshire/Soup @66 well I liked it. I had to look up a few monkeys but so what? It was lovely to see such a clever tribute to Auracaria and I’m sure he would have enjoyed it.

150. suekilp – I agree wholeheartedly with your post @142, but with regard to yours @148 I would draw a distinction between looking up a list of themed items and hoping they will fit the crossers and the wordplay, on the one hand, and using a reference resource to check something you have worked out just to see if it is right. I wouldn’t say to anyone that they are cheating if they do the former – it’s their grid and it’s no business of mine how they chose to fill it. Personally, I have tried that way and I don’t like it.

     I would rather not have to spend so much time as I had to today on looking up previously unknown answers, and if the wordplay is clear and accurate enough, I am content to just write in the answer without checking. (This is why, in mine @112, I mentioned the anagrams in SAIMIRI and MANGABEY, where several different spellings could have been fitted with the crossers but there was nothing in the clue to show which was correct.) If my curiosity has been engaged, I can look things up after I complete the grid, or after coming here and finding I have written in garbage; I’d prefer not to have to do it for a quarter or a third of the clues.

     You are quite right that Google is just a reference resource that’s easier to use and more comprehensive than the Encyclopaedia Britannica, but it is quite easy to be misled by something coming up in Google which turns out to be inaccurate or the result of a previous faulty search being replied to; and of course paper resources can be out of date or (as has been found in relation to Chambers and TARSIERs) just wrong.

     Going back to your earlier post, when you wrote “I loved the fact that it was a tribute to Araucaria, whose crosswords entertained me greatly over the thirty years or so before he died, a lot of which I also didn’t finish”, you described almost word for word what I felt about this puzzle. I would have liked to have come a little closer to solving it, though!

151. Shame really, as Araucaria’s puzzles, as we recall, were always accessible, and this tribute to the great man isn’t. We would be amongst the first to celebrate John Graham’s work, but alas we couldn’t with this effort.

152. I feel like puzzles that require niche general knowledge should come with some sort of disclaimer. As a younger solver who’s never heard of Araucaria or know what it is, and has only heard of two of the monkeys, it would have saved me 45 minutes of head scratching

153. Thanks to setters and blogger. Very hard, and I failed on WORDCROSS (D’oh). Nonetheless, enjoyable. Araucaria was an amazing setter and a remarkable, gentle man. So good to be reminded of him l.

154. Hideous despite getting both themes early on. Personally I felt that this was not a fitting tribute to the great man.

155. On the sudoku point, no maths is involved – any nine (different) symbols could be used, but numbers 1-9 are handy as they are so familiar. Killer Sudoku is a variant however which does use maths. The numbers in each “case” (box of cells inside a border) have to add up to the number in its top left cell, while all the normal Sudoku requirements have to be met as well. Unlike standard Sudoku, there are no numbers in the initial grid.

156. Thanks, Soup and Enigmatist – I think from the comments that this mainly proves everyone has a different idea of what General Knowledge is. And for many, that “stuff that I know” = General Knowledge, and “stuff I don’t know” = Wildly Niche Trivia… Can’t say I knew many of the monkeys, but that didn’t make it unfair or a bad puzzle!

     I got the theme quick enough so I knew where we were aiming and didn’t mind looking some monkeys up. Years of watching the Olympics has me on noddings terms with the Lutzes, Axels, Salchows and Flips. It’s perfectly reasonable that some wouldn’t know their ZZ Top from their Arctic Monkeys, but there will be other times when your preferred music comes up instead, be it Eroica or Englebert Humperdinck (either of them). And surely 35 years of Ken Bruce on BBC Radio qualifies him as well-known, whether you listen or not? (I’m a “not”)

     For the record, I was a DNF as much of the NW had me stumped. Of the favourites, REBUS was lovely and fooled me; loved EDISON too, and the stealthy colon in COLOBUS.

     Even without finishing, and with some googling for monkeys, I found this satisfying. Thanks!

157. [PostMark @131 and others
     you might also like to try futoshiki and kakuro puzzles.
     An interestig variation of sudoku that I discovered last year is the Sandwich Sudoku]

158. [nmsindy @156: I did a Sudoku for my choir using pictures of composers which people either loved or hated (actually, most hated, come to think of it). Even suguru doesn’t need “maths.” Killer sudoku is great but can be very tough.

     michelle @158: I’ve done a few kakuro but “futoshiki” is a new one on me – thank you!]

159. [KENKEN was a write-in for me, but that was because I used occasionally to get the Times on Saturday when a walk involved a longer train journey. Araucaria would not have approved of that! On number puzzles, I still do the Killers whenever I buy the paper (which is not every day any more), and will usually do the Sandwich Sudoku and Kakuro on Saturday, but the straight sudokus are too easy and mechanical to be interesting. For me logic is part of maths, but arithmetic barely qualifies – and there is no simple agreed dividing line between maths and philosophy].

160. I would like to say how much I appreciated and enjoyed this top-quality crossword. About the only thing I queried while solving it was the phrase ‘get punchy’ to indicate BOX. (I wondered if that whimsical or oblique definition was Araucarian in any way.)

     (I’ll just say at this point that I have read very few of the comments and will return later to read them, either selectively or in their entirety.)

     I like to try the daily crosswords without Google and, as far as possible, without any other aids either, whether online or in book form. I solved nearly all of this in that way. My GK (as usual) let me down a couple of times, as I did not know either the rockers mentioned in the clue to PUZZLE BOX or John REBUS the creation of Ian Rankin. (In fact PUZZLE BOX was bunged in as it filled the space. I didn’t know ‘pule’ either.) The only words I had to look up were SAJOU, ENTELLUS, SAIMIRI and Pelmanism. (Who on earth would think of Pelmanism when knuckling down to write a good clue for RECALL? Either Enigmatist or Soup, I suppose. It was a delightful clue.)

     I thought the end-result was a spectacularly good tribute to the master. I wasn’t fully aware whie solving of quite how many thematic entries there were. (For example, I didn’t think of SEARCH or EDISON in that way.) It is an amazing achievement.

     I must thank Enigmatist and Soup for this most interesting and, I’m sure, memorable puzzle. Also loonapick for the excellent blog.

161. Thanks all for the discussions, and also for the comments on my earlier post (and those on the Guardian comments page). Some interesting comments, and I’ll note them. For my ‘normal’ puzzles I’ll definitely only ever use words I know, with maybe one or two slightly unusual ones; there were definitely many more in this puzzle than I would usually use.

     I do think it’s important to remember that at the end of the day it’s only a crossword. If you find you don’t like the day’s puzzle, and you just want an Araucaria, there are thousands to choose from in the archives! It’s clear from the comments here that one person’s delight is another’s infuriation; the task of the setter is to walk the (stupidly thin) tightrope between those two. We’ll all fall off along the way from time to time.

     On the subject of reference books and having to look things up, two things spring to mind. The first is from the end of a Guardian article about him from 2001: “I leave him about to start work on a puzzle for Homes and Antiques, where, unlike the Guardian’s crossword editors, they choose his themes for him. This time it is chairs. “I don’t know very much about chairs,” he says just a little plaintively.” But he would have done when he finished, I’m sure.

     The second is from when he invited my wife and I for tea in 2009 (he made flapjacks). I was overawed to even have received an email from him, let alone to be invited to his house; we were expecting wall-to-wall reference books and dictionaries, but there were none. When we asked, he looked a little sheepish, and confessed ‘oh, I just look it all up on Wikipedia’.

     I was so pleased to have worked with him, typesetting his custom puzzles, for a few years before he died, and to have sung a solo at his funeral along with three friends who are not only singers but crossword buffs (we used to do his puzzles in the breaks in our rehearsals), and (even if some people haven’t enjoyed it) to have helped put together this puzzle by way of tribute. Whether you liked it or not, I think we can all agree that, as I said in 28a, he’s really missed.

162. Hamish/Soup – after all these comments, I am still not sure that there is anything much for you to note. The Guardian just threw a party and many people felt they weren’t invited. Doesn’t mean the party itself wasn’t a fantastic one for the sort of people who like parties like that. I was in the corner with the sulkers who love investigating new words, but need help in finding them with more straightforward wordplay.

163. I would thoroughly recommend the hamlyn crossword dictionary for easy cross checking newly discovered monkeys! This puzzle was a great solve.

164. Good Lord. What a to do. I didn’t get too far with this, but I spotted both themes, and had a good time getting as far as I did. By no means an expert, but really enjoyed it (and I’m perfectly happy to be educated on the wider world of monkeys. So many thanks to both setters for an enjoyable tussle and Loonapick for an enlightening blog. Calm down, it’s only a crossword!

165. I was in the corner with @12 and the others feeling left out. Ho hum. Perhaps a warning that it was going to be especially hard/obscure would spare us mere mortals the slow and lengthy realisation that it was beyond us however hard we tried. Never felt that with the great man himself even when it was a DNF.

166. [Apologies for the off-topic post, but I wanted to mention the pinnacle (IMHO) of the sudoku world – the Greater Than (or GT) Killer Sudoku. Try some at killersudokuonline. They can be fiendish but fascinating at the same time. As a puzzle fan, I love them.]

167. A DNF for me as I’d not heard of PALACE CAR. And a few other letter-matching in the Chambers app. SAI gave me MONKEY and STOA that 28ac started AR… As I also had REBUS and SUDOKU, the two themes became apparent. I wasn’t aware of Araucaria’s middle name so when I saw JGG as one of the 1921/2/16 birthday boys, it didn’t twig it was THE John Graham. I found some of the word-plays to be difficult, but hey-ho.

168. I found it a struggle, but worth the effort. Lots of checking until it dawned on me I was looking for monkeys and then I dug out my Chambers Crossword Dictionary, with a list of monkey options (not the lar, but the rest were there). It was a DNF as I didn’t get REBUS and kicked myself when I saw the answer. But when I did find the answer I could mostly parse them, came here for the few I couldn’t. Finding ARAUCARIA was the final bout of self-abuse and the point I went to find out if it was his centenary. I loved his crosswords when he was setting in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

169. Brilliant puzzle, and a good way to waste most of a day!
     I remember that, many years ago, Araucaria set a prize doubole puzzle in the Guardian which also had “Monkey Puzzle” as the theme. I can’t find it on the Guardian website. I wonder if it’s available anywhere?

170. In my crossword world you don’t have to check that a lot of your complete guesses actually exist. I make an exception for Pasquale, but this was really beyond reasonable and not fun at all, despite its laudable aim.

171. Perhaps this puzzle should have appeared in the “Genius” category.

172. The worst 1/2 hour of my life and I’ll never get those precious 30 minutes back.
     Gave up in a tsunami of self-loathing and a commitment to go back to The Sun… This was no fun at all…

173. We also enjoyed this, it’s always a disappointment to solve a puzzle too quickly, and leaves us feeling flat….much prefer something to work at!
     Sadly no-one can write Araucaria puzzles except Araucaria, so expecting, or hoping , for a return of his puzzles is not realistic. The theme was a great concept, and although we struggled with a lot of the clues, we’d rather do that than solve the puzzle straight off. Thanks Soup and Enigmatist

174. Late comment: agree whole-heartedly with the thumbs down department here. Have just given up with a corner to go. Why? Because there was absolutely no pleasure in it. Google/cheat/anagramise.. sorry Enigmatist and Soup.

175. Hamish/Soup @162
     He invited my wife and ME, surely

176. I’m not the Richard who commented earlier – I’d hate the wrong person to be accused of pedantry.

177. If it’s not too late, can I add another voice defending this puzzle as a clever and special way of marking an anniversary which will have had many of us looking back thoughtfully.
     Yes, it was very challenging, but doesn’t in my view merit the harsh responses it received from so many above. Better and kinder to notch it up as not one for them and move on.
     For what it’s worth, I got much nearer completing it than I did with yesterday’s Paul, whose specialist subject was not much more familiar than monkeys.

178. Richard @176: Oh, lord, yes. I originally wrote ‘My wife and I went for tea’ and then changed it to ‘he invited’, but left the pronoun. Ego culpa 😉

179. As well as Oofyprosser and others, I too gave up halfway through. In a week’s cryptic solving, I miss answering only one or two clues and I do expect to be stretched otherwise why bother? Only a personal opinion (what other sorts are there?) but I always found Araucaria not as tough as say Vlad, Tramp or Imogen. This was way beyond, so not quite sure how it qualifies as a tribute.
     However it is but a puzzle and into each life a little rain must fall. I would get out more but Im still wresting with Paul.

180. Thanks Hamish/Soup for taking my comment in the spirit it was intended! (I’m afraid I atttended grammar school in the fifties.) Incidentally, I have no idea whether Araucaria would have disliked your puzzle, as some people have suggested, but I feel sure he would never have said so publicly. It looks like the sort of challenge I would have enjoyed very much if I had seen it earlier.

181. Apart from being too difficult for me, the fun was spoilt by this website (fifteensquared) having given away the theme before I’d started. I visited the site to check another crossword I’d just finished, and couldn’t help seeing the summary on the main page, saying this one was a tribute to Araucaria. Shame, it would have been a real achievement to have worked it out myself. Congratulations to anyone who did!

182. There needs to be a name for the Law that states that when you encounter an unknown word for the first time in your life, you will meet it again within days.

     Tonight’s Pointless required contestants to invent words by changing one of the letters of “SAY”. Sure enough, among the pointless answers was SAI (though defined as a dagger, not a monkey).

183. I came across that dagger, gladys, and tried WEAPON for the key word!

     I remember that you said that the gridfill was Enigmatist’s, Soup, in which case just about all of the complaints seemed to be aimed at him, rather than you.

184. I started solving the Guardian cryptic at university in 1971. A bunch of us would go through all the broadsheets in the bar at lunchtime – best way to learn. Over the years I always enjoyed Aurucaria who was head and shoulders above the rest, and it was sad when he died – but what an exit. I think Paul has assumed the mantle, and I wish we had more Arachne and Nutmeg. I also think Aurucaria would not have been impressed.

185. Epic tribute to the master I grew up with. Perfectly appropriate to set something a bit off piste on such a special day. Monkeys and puzzles, why not?

186. Thanks for this Herculean effort loonapick, even though I got through this over a few days (as recommended by Soup@66) while away last week, there were plenty that needed your clear explanation (with some help from our friends in the comments above). I can see why people would be annoyed by a puzzle like this if they are expecting a crossword to fill their morning coffee break or similar so perhaps it should have been kept for a Saturday even if this meant missing the actual anniversary by a few days. While I enjoyed a lot of the clues, I have to say that the “Eureka moment” is somewhat diminished when, having sorted out the fodder, googling is necessary to confirm which of a few equally convincing candidates is the right anagram (even with very generous crossers, eg SAIMIRI vs RAIMISI). On the other hand I was very happy to make an educated guess from charades or inclusions eg ENTELLUS and confirm from a list. And I love that apparently more people on here were unaware of ZZ Top than the word “PULE”. So I am glad that Soup and Enigmatist went to all this trouble, thanks to them, EDISON my favourite for the appropriately bright light bulb that pinged on when I got it!

187. Never thought reading the blog of a crossword would take longer than the crossword !

188. I only do Guardian crosswords once a week as we only get the Guardian Weekly here in NZ.

     Usually, I finish them, but this was not only a DNF but also not far from a DNS. Having read the blog I can see why.

     Very clever but too specialised for me. Probably better suited to a Mephisto.

189. Dear Soup, please please please don’t be downheartened!!! The vast majority of crossword solvers never post on blogs like this one. There’s no reason at all to assume the unhappy replies here represent more than a tiny minority of solvers. I get the Guardian crosswords through the Guardian Weekly, which means there is a lag of a few weeks, so your stunningly brilliant crossword only arrived through my letter box last week. Me and my man are not expert solvers!!! But we are very persistant! We loved your crossword. My man is a crossword newbie and was shaken by the difficulty, but he could appreciate the awesome brilliance of the clueing. It took us the whole week (and we were defeated by MAZES), but blooming heck it was good.

     This week’s Guardian Weekly crossword was by Mathilda and it was fine, but far too easy for us because we don’t want to finish our crossword in an hour. We want a battle that lasts us a week of teabreaks, a battle we only just win.

     You and Enigmatist really hit the spot for us, and it was such a lovely tribute to the great Araucaria. Best crossword I have done for ages ages ages … best since the days of Araucaria, for sure.

     By the way, we didn’t do any cheating with lists of monkeys, we just battled, that’s the fun for us.

     Many many thanks to you both,

     Kate

190. This puzzle was included in the Australian issue of the Guardian Weekly. Expecting an Aussie to know a UK Radio 2 broadcaster’s name is a bit much.

     Defining WORDCROSS as “one for the old grey cells” is too much of a stretch for anyone, surely.

     Some witty clues, though, amongst the several tiresome ones – almost all above my ability, however.

191. Though way late to the party, I enjoyed this puzzle for two reasons: Araucaria was always my favorite setter, thus a tribute to him was appreciated, and it was straightforward. As a Weekly subscriber, I had to look to see when this was published in the daily paper, which led to the birthday of Rev. John Graham, the puzzle monkey. From there I got 24 and 28.
     While I didn’t mind looking up the names of monkeys, I was convinced that 20 was MECHANIC (grease monkey), which held me up for a little while. Often a word will occur to me that seems to fit the definition, and I will work on the wordplay later. That is how I got 8 and 6, which led to 25 (a feature of the NYT) which persuaded me that my guess for 20 was wrong.
     Brits might never have heard of the Pullman Palace Car Company as such, but I see Pullman operated various cars and trains in England until the 70s, and they appear to be joining the rest of British railroad nostalgia.

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