Guardian ‘Prize’ Crossword 28,452 / Paul (22 May 2021)

64 comments on “Guardian ‘Prize’ Crossword 28,452 / Paul (22 May 2021)”

1. Funny joke on myself. Last week I printed out two Paul prize puzzles at the same time, one from 2004 (#23,035) and this latest, but then got them confused. So having finished the oldie, thought that was just like the old days while not realizing the truism in my remark. Then picked up the newbie and after solving it, thought exactly the same. Finally realizing my mistake, I think my confusion was a real compliment to Paul (thanks very much for both puzzles) – and at least it’s good to know that something is constant in an ever-changing world.
   About the newbie. A very amusing puzzle, even though my dear old grandmother would have made me wash my mouth after solving it (grandma, I’ll swear – oops – I’ve never used those words myself).
   Half the time was spent on figuring out the thematic 20, 23, but then the laughter got underway. I stalled with the last two, having convinced myself (wrongly) that CORBLIMEY parsed better than GORBLIMEY, but when corrected I had a (LOI) laugh at my exposed ass of 2D.
   Again, thanks Paul, and I’m just about to tackle your prize puzzle of today, which looks inviting.

2. Thanks Gaufrid. I too realized fairly early on that the theme had to be something to do with expressions of surprise but the key 20, 23 eluded me until the end and MINCED was my LOI, beating 23 by only a short head. It is not an expression I had ever encountered before and I needed confirmation from my old friend Google. He also assisted me with GORDON BENNETT, again a new expression for me though Australians of a certain age will be familiar with the name in the context of another expression. I liked MOON which defied resolution for quite some time.

3. This was quite daunting at first as it looked like a difficult grid, and I saw ’20 down 23′ everywhere. I managed to solve three or four ‘normal’ clues, but the penny dropped only when I got DANG and RENEGADE in quick succession. I thought of OATH straight away, but it took a bit longer to think of MINCED.

   It was an impressive feat to get all those words and phrases in the grid, and it was a good crossword anyway, with a great variety of clues, regardless of its theme.

   Thanks to Paul for the entertaining puzzle and Gaufrid for the blog and for that interesting list of derivations.

4. Curious (though I see I am not alone in this). My last one in was 20d. I had the theme, knew 23d was OATH, but could not for the life of me get the phrase. An alphabet trawl made me wonder about MINCED, and a websurf confirmed it: a phrase I have never heard before. Quite why I thought it might be the word needed is still beyond me – there was no word play to help out, as there ought to be with obscurities. Still, knowing I was looking for euphemisms helped with quite a few of the other answers. Thanks, Paul and Gaufrid (unusual to see you blogging!).

5. Sorry, Gaufrid – I now see you did spot some wordplay for MINCED. Obscure, though.

6. Me again. If you have a big task and someone asks if you have finished, you might say “No, but I have [made significant] INROADS”. A bit loose, given that I would need the bracketed words, but that’s what I thought when I solved it.

7. Thanks Paul, and Gaufrid for explanation.
   Unusually for me, especially where Paul is concerned this was a quick solve with no mistakes, though I’m still a little puzzled over the parsing of 5 dn CRUMBS — I can see the ‘minced oath’ and the ‘in bits’ but what has the ‘nan’ got to do with it?

   That aside, I picked up the theme pretty early on, and as rodshaw @1 says the laughter got underway. Ironically my LOI was 20,23 — I could remember there was a term meaning ‘minced oath’ but not the term itself untill all the crossers were there and the ingenious construction with the minced oath of FUDGE being used as anagram indicator and reverse-constructor for MINCED OATH.

   Theme aside, a lot of pleasant if somewhat easy (not complaining!) clues — I liked DARK GREEN, REMINISCE and AGAR-AGAR. I did mull over JEGGINGS for 18A before realising ON-side = LEG. I must say that device (obvious enough to me as a cricket fan) must be challenging for anyone not interested in the noble game. Maybe it is just one of the things you have to learn in Crosswordese.

   Anyway, thanks again to Paul, Gaufrid and all learned contributors to the blog.

8. Epee sharkey @7 – ‘nan bread’ for 5 (though does it crumb?).
   Fun puzzle, RENEGADE was the way in for me. Thanks both.

9. Well I knew all the minced oaths, but not the term for them – I don’t use them myself, preferring the real thing. Because there were so many in the puzzle it didn’t take that long to solve, excepting 20d.

10. Thank you Paul. Another great puzzle. As so often, looking impossible at first glance, but falling into place once one gets stuck in. Some brilliant misdirections, 5 especially. I loved that when the penny finally dropped. And, Gonzo@8, surely any bread will “crumb”? Thanks Guafrid for pointing out NG as being No Good in 18. I do like to have parsed things fully before I enter them, but this one I did. It had to be right even if it foxed me.

11. It took me a while to work out what 20,23 was, but after I solved it I was helped by the theme of minced oaths plus aid from google.

    New MINCED OATH, GORDON BENNETT (but did not fully parse this); ONAGER.
    Did not parse GORBLIMEY; MEAT SAFE apart from EATS – never heard of Mafeking.

    Favourite: AGAR-AGAR.

    Thanks, P+G.

12. Thanks Gaufrid. DOGGONE was so Paul that it at once gave the theme but (full credit to him) my last in was as with many above was MINCED. Lot of fun.

13. Gaufrid – whether or not HOLY SMOKE is truly MINCED, it was so Paul it for me was second in.

14. The dry seas in 22a had me thinking of Cream’s Sunshine of Your Love. Here’s an updated version (I wuz there).

15. I’m a bit surprised at the number of wordplay fans who were unfamiliar with MINCED OATHs. Favourite clue: 17d, for its succinctness.

    Even though I’d never heard the term GORDON BENNETT, I was able to work it out, thanks in no small part to this Joan Crawford classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfM_VDRWOhQ

16. [ Is HOLY SMOKE from Batman ? The original TV series. Our American friends may know more. It was shown here in the 70s and I vaguely recall Robin saying it quite often . ]

17. Perhaps one of the historians or statisticians here can help, but I’m sure I first learned the term MINCED OATH from a Guardian crossword, probably one of Paul’s?

    Anyway, good fun. Thanks Paul and Gaufrid.

18. A similar experience to many others, it seems. I got in with DANG, and my LOI was the MINCED part of MINCED OATH, a phrase I certainly didn’t know. Although in fact, playing around with possible vowels to go in M_N_E_ I thought of MONKEY, which seemed plausible (and even fits the reverse anagram wordplay). Of course, Monkey Oath isn’t in the dictionary, so I tentatively Googled it, and the in-this-case-over-helpful Google thought I might be interested in the Wikipedia entry for MINCED OATH. Which isn’t quite how I wanted to finish what had been a very entertaining crossword! Thanks, Paul, and thanks, Gaufrid.

19. Yes, Roz. HOLY SMOKE was what Robin said to Batman as his go-to euphemism. I’m not good on popular culture but I would have said maybe early 1960s on UK television.

    What a lovely puzzle! The clues are full of references to food. Was I the only one to think the theme might be MASTER CHEF? Would never have finished it if it had been. Great thanks Paul.

20. [ Thank you Choldunk, I watched it as a child in the 70s, it must have been repeated. Thinking about it now, it was very 60s in style. ]

21. Oops. Batman on TV was 1966 to 1968. Guess I wasn’t as mature aged 15 as I thought. Yes, it was very 1960s. Maybe the expression was in the comic at the barber’s too.

22. Holy smoke sounds so familiar… any other characters say it (eg Chester to Matt Dillon maybe, or…)?

23. gladys @17: Strange. I HAVE come across the phrase ‘minced oath’ before but I cannot, for the life of me recall when and where. It would seem most likely to have arisen through this activity but I don’t think I was on this site when the phrase last appeared here. I’m sure others have done the same as me and checked – Pasquale used it in mid 2018 and plenty of commenters posted that they’d never heard of it. Deja vu.

    I was in the ‘loved it’ camp and did spot the idea fairly early on – HOLY SMOKE followed by GOSH was my way in and I recall SUGAR coming along quickly as well. I saw INROADS in much the same way as TassieTim @6 and rather liked it. Favourites were MEAT SAFE, having recalled Mafeking, BALL GAME and themed answers DOGGONE and GORBLIMEY.

    Thanks Paul and Gaufrid

24. grantinfreo@22. I wonder if you are old enough to be remembering it from Lee Dorsey’s 1966 hit song, ‘Holy Cow’, in which HOLY SMOKE featured as often as the other MINCED OATH which gave the song its title:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41uIdfHAIcQ

    [I hope this link is less problematic than my ‘U and Non-U’ link of yesterday!]

25. This crossword was slow to start, but once moose and moon were in, I twigged 20, 23 down, and then made INROADS to the rest of the puzzle.

26. grantinfreo @22, I suppose it depends on where you have been and what you read/watch etc., but “holy smoke” has been ever-present for me for many years. The 1999 Campion/Winslet movie, countless restaurants (including a Holy Smoke Cafe in Shah Alam not far from where I now live), and many others. I have probably used it myself, or at least hesitated to assess present company before proceeding with the s….

    I recalled MINCED OATH eventually. And it may well have been from a previous crossword. The one I had no recollection of was GORDON BENNETT so that was solved from wordplay and checked.

    Very enjoyable. Thanks Paul and Gaufrid.

27. Brilliant as ever.
    I had an unsatisfying MONKEY NUTS until Sunday evening when it all fell into place.
    That’s why I love Paul’s crosswords – they keep me guessing (sometimes well into next week) but the penny always drops.

28. I did not enjoy this one much. The theme was fairly evident but, like others, I had never heard the term MINCED OATH – so, having worked out the anagram for OATH, MINCED was my LOI also, after some online research. And why the circular reference back to 14 in the clue to 20,23?

    There is an online discussion about the origin of HOLY SMOKE. GORDON BENNETT is supposed to derive from an American newspaper magnate who was once a celebrity, and who financed trophies for motor racing, etc – is it only a British usage?

    I agree the definition of INROADS is a bit odd, and that Tassie Tim@6 is as close as one can get to explain it.

29. The nina in the first half of row thirteen paired with 17D to remind me of Alf Tupper, the Tough of the Track. That led directly to an Ian Dury ear worm, which never made it through the mincer. Thanks both.

30. Holy smoke always makes me think of (a) Batman (as per Roz) and (b) the German Weihrauch (which means ‘holy/consecrated smoke’, but is used for frankincense).

    Thanks sjshart @28 for the interesting link. The fact-checking site Snopes also has this nicely written article on the origin of the expression, from which I’ll just quote the conclusion:

    Looking beyond just the exclamations and examining the broader scope of two-part ‘holy’ terms, one quickly sees that a great many use as their completers words that have a strong ‘O’ presence: holy joe, holy moley, holy toledo, holy horror, and holy roller, as well as the previously-mentioned holy Moses and holy cow. ‘Holy smoke’ fits this alliterativeness, this joy-filled pursuit of the rolling ‘O.’

    In Paul’s defence, it may not have started life as a MINCED OATH, but I suspect KLColin @26 is not alone in co-opting it for that purpose. 😉

    And finally – some French people do actually say ‘Mince!’ in preference to the other M word.

    Many thanks Paul and Gaufrid.

31. Loved this puzzle, one of our favourites ever. Thanks Paul and Gaufrid. Laughed out loud at Holy Smoke.

32. When I can’t do a crossword, I usually blame myself rather than the setter and I do in this case mostly, but I thought it was a little hard to use such an unfamiliar phrase as the key, though the expression “I won’t mince my words” is more familiar. In my mind renegades were more likely to be brave rebels and Quislings craven traitors, but I suppose they mean the same thing.

33. I usually don’t get on with Paul’s crosswords and usually fail miserably. This one was mainly write-ins for me and I finished it very quickly I did know the term MINCED OATH but it did take me a while to remember it.

    My memory of the sixties series Batman is that Robin would use a number of phrases starting with the word “holy” usually fitting in with what he’d just seen or been told. I think on one occasion, having been told about a bull fight he said something like “Holy toreador!” I also recall a Spike Milligan joke about a poem about a burning church, “I call it holy smoke”.

34. I’m not sure if this is exactly what TassieTim@6 meant, but I thought 24a might work as an indirect definition. Since you have to “make” inroads into something to do a significant amount of it, you could possibly say that inroads are significant amounts [that are] made.

    Thanks to Paul and Gaufrid

35. I guessed MINCED OATH. One can MINCE ones words, i.e. not saying what you actually mean. Also Paul’s invite to his Zoom call suggested something like this – he wouldn’t have naughty words but was sorely tempted.

36. Certainly old enough, Spooner’s catflap @24, for the ’66 hits, eg S&G’s Sounds of Silence, but not Holy Cow (and yes, the link brings up This video is unavailable).

37. [PhillnLivi@35, Paul has certainly had very naughty words in the past, a crossword full of them hidden away. Answers such as Scunthorpe and Widow Twankie and many others. Was a while ago but I am sure someone on here could find it. ]

38. Like Rodshaw I had the incorrect CORBLIMEY (as in My Old Man’s a Dustman – “he wears cor-blimey trousers”), but Corby seemed an odd result for ‘political reformer’, and the C made 3d unsolvable. It wasn’t until this morning that I remembered the tabloid abbreviation for Gorbachev, and then dredged ONAGER from the memory banks.

    Thanks to Paul and Gaufrid.

39. grantinfreo @36, well, DANG. The link works in the UK, because I checked it after posting. Therefore, I think this must be a regional issue, perhaps because the channel on which the video is posted carries UK-specific advertising. You are not, I think, in the UK?

40. GORDON BENNETT was an easy one for me (in fact I didn’t even parse it!): a regular contributor to the Guardian’s letters page writes from his boat of that name, moored on the Llangollen canal, or elsewhere.

    I agree with DuncT’s version of INROADS @34: “you could possibly say that inroads are significant amounts [that are] made.” It’s still a bit loose, but it makes sense to me.

41. … and had the same mer as Petert @32 re renegade/Quisling…

42. S’s c @39, not to worry. And yes, not in the UK. I’m in the antipodes, in ‘Freo’, ie Fremantle, Western Australia.

43. I’ve just remembered Great Uncle Jimmy in Lancs, very Chapel, who used to say blocky ‘eck and flackin’ ‘arry. The younger more progressive kin thought him a bit wet.

44. My way in to 20/23d was DANG from the wordplay. It was the only flipped hidden word that fitted.
    19/25 I think that the Collins delrivation works better than the OED’s. Think of beginning with GAWD then realising hearers might take offence.
    3 is a crossword favourite. It always reminds me of Ogden Nash’s introductions to Saint-Saens’ Carnival of the Animals where he likens its bray to a ” hepcat on a harmoniger”
    24 I didn’t think much of the def. either but my only quibble in what was generally fun and fair. Thanks to Paul and Gaufrid.

45. Slow to get started on this one, but once in it was great fun.

    HOLY SMOKE is just perhaps an oath, rather than a MINCED OATH. I hadn’t heard of the term but Wiktionary came to my rescue. I was a bit stuck for the parsing of GORDON BENNETT where I thought the two little boys were Gordon and Ben, and the caveman’s behind was N, which led me to the conclusion there was a mistake, doh!

    I ticked GOSH, AGAR-AGAR and BALL GAME.

    Thanks Paul and Gaufrid.

46. I had fun with this. It helped that I did know the key phrase from somewhere or other. Thanks, Paul and thanks Gaufrid for stepping in (I presume) for whoever it was supposed to be, as well as for the helpful notes.

    Did anybody else get stuck on Troy for the besieged town in 13a?

    I think I recall from childhood that SUGAR was short for “sugar, honey and iced tea,” for the acronym.

    To amplify Pino@44
    Did you ever hark to the jackass wild,
    Which scientists call the onager?
    It sounds like the laugh of an idiot child
    Or a hepcat on a harmoniger.
    But do not sneer at the jackass wild —
    There is method in his hee-haw,
    For with maidenly blush and accents mild
    The Jenny-ass answers “she-haw.”

    Spooner’s catflap @39 The link to Holy Smoke (the song) worked for me in the US.

47. Valentine @46
    No, not ‘stepping in’. I’ve taken over this slot so you will be seeing me every fourth week.

48. sheffieldhatter@38 I’m sure some people would speak so casually that they leave the “n” off Corbyn.

49. Petert @48. Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I acknowledge the abbreviation Corby as a possibility, but the description as a ‘political reformer’ just doesn’t work and I should have rejected it much sooner. It’s too inaccurate, even for Paul! If it had been Corbyn that was intended, ‘failed leader’ or ‘perpetual rebel’ would have been closer to the mark. Gorby is equally grotesque but politically accurate.

50. Please welcome Mr and Mrs Bennet-Howthe-Flip-Didany-Onedothis, and their son, Gordon

    I kept telling myself I would be able to solve this if only I could print it out and see the whole page at once. Doing it online, I managed to get five answers only all week. Then I came here today and learnt what the theme was, and went back and finished it in 15 minutes. It was a very clever fill. I did know the expression MINCED OATH, but never thought of approaching the key clue as a reverse anagram, unfortunately. I did actually guess SMOKE from “cigar”, but “papal” just had me thinking of the black smoke and white smoke used to signal proceedings for a new pope.

    I’m not too impressed with some of the definitions:

    Aimlessly wander for MOON (22ac) (no one else seems bothered by this, though)
    Significant amounts made for INROADS (24ac) (like Gaufrid)
    Quisling for RENEGADE (16dn) (Like Petert @32)

51. TC @ 50: from Chambers

    moon
    intransitive verb
    1. To wander about listlessly or gaze vacantly at anything (usu with around or about)

    I probably first heard it in the early 1970s.

52. Tony Collman @50. MOON (Chambers): to wander about listlessly or gaze vacantly at anything (usually with around or about).

53. …it took me longer to reach for my Chambers, clearly.

54. Never heard of MINCED OATH but gettable from the crossers and the clue ‘for a hot’ FUDGE. GORBLIMEY DOGGONE, HIOLY SMOKE and DARK GREEN were super. Got the theme early but MINCED was LOI. Just wonderful yet again.

    Ta Paul & Gaufrid

55. Tony Collman @50
    Simon S and sheffield hatter have saved me from having to paste the Chambers info so I will just add that Collins gives “traitor” as a definition for both quisling and renegade.

56. Thanks, Simon S @51. I did look in Collins, which confirmed my idea that it meant “to be idle in a listless way, as if in love, or to idle (time) away”, with no suggestion of going anywhere, with or without aim. Now I know.

    WorldWideWords is interesting on Holy Smoke, btw, and seems to confirm that it is not, in fact, a minced oath.

57. Thanks very much Gaufrid for your research on these, I did look up a few but by no means all. My way in was as for Pino@44 and it didn’t take long for the key phrase to emerge from the lumber room, first encountered on Only Connect I think, can’t recall if it was round one or connecting wall. This led to fairly quick themed entries but still enjoyable parsing post entry, Robi@45 the caveman took me far too long to spot considering the cartoon appeared daily in the paper that we had in my youth, but the answer itself familiar from ISIHAC. Gaufrid I thought of batsmen making broads into a first innings deficit as scoring significant amounts but agree it doesn’t pass the word-for-word test, maybe progress would work better than amounts in the clue. And Roz with Happy Days and now Batman you are our pop culture guru! Thanks Paul, this was a blessed relief from a wet weekend.

58. PostMark@23: Yes, it was the Pasquale puzzle in 2018 that introduced me to MINCED OATHS – I notice from my comment that the term was new to me then.

59. As a long-term expat in France, I ‘ve always loved the accidental trans-lingual jokes that turn up here and there. Perhaps my favourite was a shop selling high-end audio gear in Noisy-le-Sec called Noisy Hifi (unfortunately it was before the days of phones that could take pictures off the cuff). Anyway, my favourite among the many mindblowing translations between the two languages of English and French, which I cede without copyright, sess, or other legal constraints, is…
    …when about to utter a vulgar word in front of rodshaw@1’s grandmother (or anyone else from whom you’re hoping for an inheritance) you’re about to say sh**, you adroitly adjust it to SUGAR. In a similar situation, René in 16d, would probably come out with MER[DE]CREDI.
    See you next sucre.

60. Gazzh@57, 70s children’s television is my specialist subject, and adverts. Beyond that I am hopeless.

61. Great fun thanks Paul and blogger. I was surprised that “minced oath” was new to some… maybe it’s on its way out…. but not before us.

62. What a thrill, reasonably new to cryptics and Paul has been impenetrable until last week. Got on his wavelength for some reason and enjoyed the ride. Saturday’s was just as joyous!

63. The Indian bread is ‘naan’, though, so I still don’t see how 5dn works. I don’t think ‘say’ is a homophone indicator, because if the wordplay is referring to the bread then ‘say’ is needed to indicate that it’s just one type of thing that could produce crumbs.

    Anyway, typical Paul, with the emphasis being more on ingenious construction than clues that make much sense on the surface. It seems to me that Paul isn’t much interested in surface readings, and maybe he has a point because let’s face it, most of us blast through clues without even reading them as sentences. Often I’ll finish a puzzle and then go back and read the clues to admire how the setter has fashioned some mental image out of the wordplay, which I didn’t even notice when solving the puzzle.

64. David Sullivan @63
    Both Chambers and the ODE give ‘nan’ as the name of the Indian bread, with ‘naan’ as an alternative spelling, so a homophone indicator is not required.

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