The puzzle may be found at https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/cryptic/28459.
A very pleasant surprise to find Brendan in the Monday spot, with a theme of codes interwoven in the clues and answers (including one in 9A which took me a time for the penny to drop).
| ACROSS | ||
| 5 | COLDER |
Writer of Morse inserting line that’s not so friendly (6)
|
| An envelope (inserting’) of L (‘line’) in CODER (‘writer of Morse’ – Colin Dexter has nothing to do with the case). | ||
| 6 | THRONG |
We backed out of the wrong crowd (6)
|
| A subtraction: ‘th[e w]rong’ minus WE reversed (‘backed out’). | ||
| 9 | SPAWNS |
Generates deposits to get money after … (6)
|
| A charade of S (‘…’, Morse code) plus PAWNS (‘deposits to get money’). | ||
| 10 | INNATELY |
Cambridgeshire pub following certain code from the start? (8)
|
| INN AT ELY (‘Cambridgeshire pub’ – not a see in sight). | ||
| 11 | DECO |
Kind of art — work of 13? (4)
|
| From 13A CODEBREAKER, DECO is an anagram (‘work of’ BREAKER – or should ‘work’ go with the definition?) of CODE. | ||
| 12 | DENATURING |
Transforming study with a famous 13 (10)
|
| A charade of DEN (‘study’) plus ‘a’ plus TURING (Alan, ‘famous 13’). | ||
| 13 | CODEBREAKER |
Kind of solver who doesn’t obey set of rules? (11)
|
| CODE as a ‘set of rules’. | ||
| 18 | ENCRYPTION |
Secrecy measure unknown in Princeton, strangely (10)
|
| An envelope (‘in’) of Y (mathematical ‘unknown’) in ENCRPTION, an anagram (‘strangely’) of ‘Princeton’. | ||
| 21 | RING |
Contact group of spies (see above) (4)
|
| Double definition, along with a reference to 12A DENATURING. | ||
| 22 | COINCIDE |
Agree Leonardo’s last section has been enciphered? (8)
|
| An implied envelope of INCI (the ‘last section’ of ‘Leonardo’ da VINCI) in CODE (‘has been enciphered’ – note that “in” is part of the equivalence). | ||
| 23 | BRIDGE |
English composer providing part for violin that’s played by quartets (6)
|
| Triple definition: the ‘English composer’ is Frank Bridge (Benjamin Britten studied with him); the bridge of a violin forms one end of the played strings, and conducts the vibrations to the sound box; and the quartet is NS and WE playing the card game. | ||
| 24 | EROTIC |
For rousing passion, unfinished symphony by Beethoven eclipses his fourth (6)
|
| An envelope (‘eclipses’) of T (‘his fourth’ – i.e. the fourth letter of BeeThoven’) in EROIC[a] (‘symphony by Beethoven’ – actually his third) minus the last letter (‘unfinished’ – no, that’s Schubert’s eighth). | ||
| 25 | ODESSA |
Some abodes sailors selected in port (6)
|
| A hidden answer (‘some’) in ‘abODES SAilors’, for the Ukrainian port with the famous (Battleship) Potemkin Steps. | ||
| DOWN | ||
| 1 | FLEW SOLO |
Fellows upset over nothing worked alone (4,4)
|
| An envelope (‘over’) of O (‘nothing’) in FLEWSLO, an anagram (‘upset’) of ‘fellows’. | ||
| 2 | SENSED |
Became aware of couple holding hands, surrounded by offspring (6)
|
| An envelope (‘surrounded by’) of NS (‘couple holding hands’, bridge) in SEED (‘offspring’). | ||
| 3 | CHINA TEA |
A teach-in switching parts leaves much to be desired? (5,3)
|
| ‘(a tea)(ch-in)’ with the two bracketed sequences of letters exchanged (‘switching parts’). | ||
| 4 | DOCTOR |
Who, for example, inverted degenerate set of principles endlessly? (6)
|
| A reversal (‘inverted’) of ROT (‘degenerate’, verb) plus COD[e] (‘set of principles’) minus the last letter (‘endlessly’). | ||
| 5 | CIPHER |
Key change of price around end of month (6)
|
| An envelope (‘around’) of H (‘end of montH‘) in CIPER, an anagram (‘change’) of ‘price’. | ||
| 7 | GALANT |
Like some 18th-century music style in madrigal anthology (6)
|
| A hidden answer in ‘madriGAL ANThology’. | ||
| 8 | DINNER WINES |
Evening drinks in inn, reds we mixed (6,5)
|
| An anagram (‘mixed’) of ‘in inn reds we’. | ||
| 14 | EXPLICIT |
Clear European vote in line with law, under pressure (8)
|
| A charade of E (‘European’) plus X (‘vote’) plus P (‘pressure’) plus LICIT (‘in line with law’). | ||
| 15 | EARLIEST |
Noblemen on time, namely entering before everyone else? (8)
|
| An envelope (‘entering’) of I.E. (‘namely’) in EARLS (‘noblemen’) plus (‘on’ in a down light) T (‘time’). | ||
| 16 | ENCODE |
Along with the letter, poem put in secret text (6)
|
| A charade of ENC (enclosed, ‘along with the letter’) plus ODE (‘poem’). | ||
| 17 | ENIGMA |
Riddle cracked in game (6)
|
| An anagram (‘cracked’) of ‘in game’. | ||
| 19 | RANSOM |
Free, in a way, but it comes at a cost (6)
|
| Cryptic definition. | ||
| 20 | NOBODY |
Unimportant person could be problem for murder detective or winemaker (6)
|
| The subsidiary indications both require NO BODY. |
A rather pleasant Monday puzzle – and yes, for once it was slightly more difficult than the Quiptic. Easy-favorite clue was INNATELY – did anybody else actually have a drink at the INN AT ELY, as I often did with chums in my Cambridge days, and if so do you remember its name?
DENATURING was a close runner-up, while LOI was DOCTOR, after realizing that for several minutes I had been attempting a much more sophisto-solve (duh!). Recently I saw a chronological list of his actors, and it seemed to run to pages.
Thanks Brendan, it was so enjoyable that I gladly overlook a handful of clichéd clues.
A pleasant surprise, as you say. I thought this was going to be tough, as nothing yielded until 1d, but after that all flowed smoothly: a very pleasant solve.
I fiddled with COLIN and DEXTER also, but to no avail.
Thanks Brendan and PeterO
It’s always a treat to see Brendan but especially on a Monday. Great crossword as usual — DECO as a result of CODEBREAKING represents all that I like about cryptic puzzles and Brendan seems so natural at this. EROTIC, CHINA TEA, DOCTOR, and NOBODY were among my favourites. BRIDGE was just beyond my grasp as was INNATELY but I’m not complaining. Thanks PeterO for the early blog.
Yes, for once I got the theme. Enjoyed the whole lot [Surprised to find out via a novel (based on fact) that we had our own Bletchly Park here in Brisbane, Queensland during World War II. Girls were employed to decode messages (some in Japanese?) The house which hosted the group was known as The spy House at Henry St Ascot and sold last weekend for around $8m Aussie dollars. Recruitment was also via a crossword and other questions. ] Ha Ha moment when I parsed innately as I actually visited Ely when I was in England in 1973. Don’t post often but enjoy all contributions as I lurk on the Gold Coast.
Nice puzzle and blog.
“selected” seemed a bit unnecessary, wordplay-wise, in 25a.
We can add ENIGMA to the theme, as it was the name of the WWII German coding machines that Turing’s group played a big role in cracking.
Anyone else notice two overlaps with today’s Quiptic?
25ac also plays into the theme – that 1974 Frederick Forysth spy film? Loved the Inn at Ely. Thank you Peter O and Brendan for a spiffing start to the Bank Holiday.
Thanks Brendan and PeterO
Some lovely clues. INNATELY and CHINA TEA favourites. I thought RANSOM was a bit weak. I didn’t parse SPAWNS.
I hadn’t heard of GALANT, but the solution was easy. Also I’ve never seen DECO without the “art”.
Pasquale last year:
Symphony offering racy stuff (not Beethoven’s Fourth) (6)
I don’t suppose there’s any point in saying that the Doctor is never called “Who”.
There are a couple of “codes” hidden inEROTIC/ODESSA & DECO/DENATURING.
A great puzzle, worthy of a bank holiday Monday. Took me some time to get CODEBREAKER, and couldn’t parse COINCIDE (I tried to get an anagram of O and SECTION). Some very clever cluing, as other have noted. Favourites were DOCTOR, INNATELY, FLEW SOLO. Many thanks to Brendan and PeterO.
Nicely bamboozled by Brendan this morning – I wasted lots of time trying to extract COLDER from Colin Dexter, and took Beethoven’s fourth out of EROTICA instead of putting it into EROIC … oh, and I didn’t spot what those three dots were about, either. Like any good spy thriller, this has hidden depths – that inn just had to be in Cambridge, didn’t it.
Favourites THRONG, INNATELY, DENATURING. Haven’t met GALANT before but the clue was easy enough.
Drofle you’re not alone with SECTION & O and to my shame I even had COINCIDE written down! Lovely, beautifully crafted crossword. Thanks
There are a few ‘CODE’s in the grid reading across (including those spotted by Niltac)
Another lovely puzzle from Brendan.
Like others, I loved INNATELY, DENATURING, COINCIDE, EROTIC and CHINA TEA (but I can’t agree with the (clever) definition. 😉 ) and, like Tony Santucci, admired the DECO / CODEBREAKER device.
(Good spot, Niltac @9.)
Many thanks to Brendan for a real Bank Holiday treat and PeterO.for the blog.
Lots of great stuff today from Brendan. Now that PeterO has parsed it for me, SPAWNS is my favourtie clue. Thanks both.
I’ve been accused of writing essays in the past – and could so easily fill a page with positive reflections on this beauty of a Bank Holiday treat … Brendan at his creative best today with so many delightful devices. Hugely satisfying to solve and parse and, perhaps prompted by a recent Morse code based puzzle, particularly pleased with spotting the ‘S’ in SPAWNS. Once I’d dismissed an anagram of DiCaprio and settled on Vinci, COINCIDE was a favourite, along with the already highlighted INNATELY, DECO, the linked CODEBREAKER and the clever DENATURING. I agree with TerriBlislow @7 that ODESSA plays into the theme, as well as ENIGMA, as spotted by Dr WhatsOn @5. (That clue also referenced, to my mind, the famous Churchill quote about Russia)
Thanks Brendan and PeterO
Some brilliantly inventive clueing today, and some proper laugh out loud moments (“leaves much to be desired”!!!!!). Thoroughly enjoyable. Bravo, Brendan!
Kicking myself for not getting the … (I parsed it as “deposits”=SPAWN + “money”=S (as in shilling) but I knew that couldn’t be right). And I’m another who struggled to parse COL[in] D[ext]ER. Thanks, PeterO, for clarifying these and a few other subtleties that escaped me.
Niltac @9 – good spot!
[As an aside, INNATELY made me think of Ye Olde Mitre in London, which historically was considered to be in Ely – it’s a good story, worth looking up if you’re not familiar with it.]
Thank you PeterO, I couldn’t parse DOCTOR (reversing it, I couldn’t get past ROTTCODD degenerating, but that would have been more appropriately kept for tomorrow) and missed the Morse S completely (in the same way as widdersbel@17 – been to that pub on a walking tour of that part of London and all very interesting, agreed).
As well as the clues that have misled others I managed to conjure up a LONE WOLF for the first go at 1d but it didn’t survive proper parsing, and with just the L of Galant crossing, I assumed EAGLE to be ending 10A (we had a lot of Cambridge pub chat not long ago) but was foiled again.
My little quibble: Is “Dinner Wines” an actual phrase? But as always so much clever interplay between clues and solutions (and well spotted Niltac@9 – I had looked for some coded message hidden somewhere but apart from the probable coincidence of R and LEET just above the key entry I couldn’t see anything), my favourite the comparatively simple but cleverly constructed/spotted THRONG, thanks Brendan.
I believe the only surviving Inn At Ely at the moment is The Cutter Inn. Widdersbel@17 – I also know The Mitre in London well. But very hard to find if you’re looking for it for the first time, down a very narrow alleyway off Ely Place. Enjoyed the particularly cryptic flavour of today’s slightly more engaging than normal Monday puzzle. Thanks Brendan and PeterO…
Very enjoyable and the theme was too obvious to miss. However I must quibble about 5d. A CIPHER is not a key, just as a lock is not a key.
PS muffin@8, while I generally agree with you about how the Doctor is known to his/her companions and adversaries, this is from the back of a BBC LP containing among other things ‘Genesis of the Daleks’: “Doctor Who, with his travelling companions, Sarah and Harry, has landed on a desolate plant called Skaro.” The cast list credits Tom Baker as playing “Doctor Who”. So there is a precedent, however obscure!
Lovely penny-drop moment when the … = S ruse was rumbled. Had to learn Morse once and for up to a fairly decent send speed. Receive speed was always embarrassingly slower.
Another who tried to beat SECTION+O into an anagram before seeing COINCIDE.
PeterO, why the RING RING highlights?
Willaim@22 the clue for 21A says (See above), so PeterO has highlighted it so we can see what Brendan was getting at.
Great puzzle and blog
Didn’t get a lot of it, but I thank you PeterO for showing me what I missed, especially Inn At Ely. ENC for enclosed is beyond my ken, and therefore deeply irritating.
Shirley @23: lovely, many thanks.
William@22: no, I didn’t get the “(see above)” either.
A jolly fun crossword, IMHO. I missed the ‘…’ = S in Morse code, but now it’s explained I absolutely love this clue. I started with 1a, saw ‘coder’ as a writer of morse straight away and so picked up immediately on the ‘code’ theme, which helped me on to a flying solve.
Many thanks to Brendan and to our blogger today.
A really lovely puzzle, as ever, from Brendan.
Just one thing I’m not convinced about. That is the identification of INCI as “Leonardo’s last section” in 22A. I could happily accept VINCI as his last section, if the name LEONARDO DA VINCI is to be regarded as falling in three sections. But why should INCI qualify any more than, say, NCI, CI, or I as the last section?
As Poc@20 says, this definition seems incorrect. The KEY unlocks the CIPHER. Otherwise a really good puzzle!
A Bank Holiday (in the UK) treat.
I was another trying to fashion an anagram from section/o for 22. I also missed the … for S. I particularly liked THRONG, EROTIC, INNATELY, COINCIDE and the ‘leaves much to be desired’.
[A visit to Bletchley Park has much to be recommended.]
Thanks Brendan and PeterO.
As usual, Eileen has said it all for me
Thanks to her, Brendan and PeterO
[ MrPostMark @ 16 – I’ve been accused of writing essays in the past – . Is that from people who cannot spell dissertations ?
Sorry I do not know how to do those yellow face things. ]
Pasquale and Brendan have used identical grids today, both with 15d = EARLIEST.
Brendan’s puzzle is code-themed. Is there more to find that I can’t see?
Muffin@8 and Gazzh@21, for the main character in Doctor Who being called Doctor Who we need look at a precedent no more obscure than the credits of the programme, which credited the lead actors as playing Dr Who or Doctor Who for the first 18 years (and this credit has been used on and off since then as well)! The people who devised the show and produced it in its most iconic period clearly thought of Doctor Who as a name of the character, if not the name of the character. I think the idea it’s a bona fide error is an invention cooked up by
DW geekdom and wrongly exported to geeks in other galaxies. 🙂 I’m always trying to put this quibble to bed for good so that great puzzles like Brendan’s here don’t get wrongly “marked down”. Thanks to Brendan and PeterO for the blog.
Failed 22ac and 4d.
Guessed a few answers – did not fully parse 21ac, 9ac, 10ac.
Liked CHINA TEA, as well as 11 and 13ac.
So now I realise why the other Anna from Finland was frustrated with this blog I posted what I thought was an interesting bit of info and yet after nearly 30 comments not one reference to my contribution. Obviously a closed shop. Had the same reaction some years ago after a reference to the tropical fruit called loquat. Appreciate the explanation provided by the blogger but could not be bothered to read the opinions of others. Signing off.
Anna van Hoof@35: all discussion boards are like that. I belong to another one where things only seem to get noticed if Certain People say them, and this one isnt anywhere near as bad. For the record, I found the story of the Aussie Bletchley Park an interesting read, but we are always getting reprimanded for posting too many words, so acknowledgments sometimes go by the board.
Anna v h (and, indeed, Anna in Finland). I felt the same when I first began posting …. no responses at all, not just during one day’s friendly cross-chat among the others, but during days and days of it; not sure how long it really was, but it was hard not to feel ignored. Eventually, response came and I relaxed. Now, sometimes days and days still go by without personal response, but I know it’s just random, wthout intent, not personal.
Anna van hoof@4…Hi! Did you specially go to Ely for the 13th Hundred Centenary celebration of the founding of Ely Cathedral? Etheldreda in 673. Particularly on May 15th, when the whole city was in period costume. My primary school year performed the Noah’s Flood miracle play on Palace Green that day, in front of the Bishop’s Palace…
[ Anna v h . I have put some questions on General Discussion if you have time to read them ]
That was fun although took me a while and needed a bit of help with parsing a few.
NOBODY made me laugh and I remembered the … to help me get SPAWNS (can’t remember where I saw it but I know I did).
Thanks Brendan and PeterO
Boffo@32
Please don’t post spoilers, some of us may not have done the Quiptic yet
poc @20, Toby@28: Collins (online version) and Oxford American dictionaries both include the key to a code/cipher as one of the definitions for CIPHER. English as she is spoke…
I bet I’m not the only one who’s never heard of the composer BRIDGE.
Eileen@14 You don’t agree that the leaves of China tea are much to be desired? Lapsang is actually my favorite tea.
What is the story about the Ye Olde Mitre pub? Wikipedia didn’t have much interesting to say beyond that they were on Ely Place, which was also my grandparents’ address in East Orange NJ. Was the “Ye Olde” phrase actually current in the 18th Century?
This was lots of fun, with plenty left to solve in the morning. Thank you, Brendan and Peter O.
Gazzh @18 What’s with R and LEET?
Like many, I suspect, the only thing i can say in Morse code is SOS, except I never can remember whether it starts with the dits or the dahs. In any case, the clue went right past me until PeterO put me wise.
If Dr Who isn’t Dr Who, what is he called? I’ve never seen the show and I’m puzzled by this exchange.
Charlie@33, thank you, that has not just put it to bed but given it a glass of milk and read it a story too. [and gave me a happy few minutes enjoying old dr who credits and theme tune arrangements on youtube.]
Valentine @43 He is only ever called The Doctor.
Nice crossword today, delaying the inevitable lawn-mowing by a diverting 30 minutes. Thanks to setter and to blogger for the “…” in SPAWNS, which I failed to parse.
Valentine@43: R is a statistical programming “environment”, I don’t use it myself but know people who do, and as it involves coding (in the programming sense) to some extent it could be classed as thematic.
LEET is again something of which I am not (knowingly) a user but am vaguely aware, a sort of internet shorthand, slang or code in case this link fails: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet
So I thought they were both related to the theme in a way although maybe not intentional.
Doug431@42: That’s as may be, but Chambers doesn’t include this definition, nor does Cambridge, nor does Macmillan. I don’t have access to the OED to check. As a retired computer science professor I would have marked down any student who confused a key with a cipher.
[Valentine@43 and Big Norm@45 This RadioTimes piece points out that the character has been referred to as Doctor Who on screen. These moments can be filed away as goofs/in-jokes if you want, but as a recent head writer says in the article, they’re also perfectly good bits of evidence in the other direction if you want them to be. There’s certainly – at the very least – enough wriggle-room for a crossword setter to play with, so… play on, Brendan et al! 🙂 ]
Valentine @43. “Eileen@14 You don’t agree that the leaves of China tea are much to be desired?” I think Eileen was saying that she *does* like China tea, but was disagreeing (with a winking emoticon) with the surface for the clue, which invites the reading ‘China tea leaves much to be desired’ (i.e. is a pretty poor tea). Sorry, Eileen. Explaining a joke often makes it look feeble – I smiled when I read it, so you’ll have to be content with that.
[Oops, I meant this link – https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/is-his-name-really-doctor-who-the-history-of-the-time-lords-moniker-and-showrunner-steven-moffats-view/amp/ ]
Anna Van Hoof @35: Please don’t sign off. I (and I expect several others) enjoyed your titbit about the Aussie Bletchley Park. This place isn’t a ‘closed shop’ and most bloggers would be disappointed if that is the impression that comes across. I think it’s simply that folks get used to responding to certain regulars and there’s a tendency for those exchanges to get repeated.
Your post prompted me to look this up and I found it fascinating.
Many thanks, do stick around.
As Gazzh @18 is dinner wine a thing?
Anyway nice one Brendan – thanks PeterO for the … s explanation.
poc @47: Chambers (online) includes the definition. I’m also a retired computer science professor, and I don’t like the usage either. Nonetheless, it has escaped into the wild, where it will no doubt wreak havoc for generations.
poc @47; the OED says: ‘anything written in cipher, and the key to such a system.’ Doug431 @53; Chambers only has ‘cipher key’, which is, er, the key to a cipher.
LOI was 9a, doh!
Robi @54: The entry in the Chambers 21st Century Dictionary (the one you can search on line) begins: “cipher or cypher noun 1 a secret code. 2 something written in code. 3 the key to a code. 4 …”
BigNorm@45: HE is only ever called the Doctor? Shouldn’t we now say SHE?
Brilliant crossword. The best for some time. Many thanks to Brendan.
Hi Valentine @43 – I’ve been out and have only just seen your comment.
I’m afraid I really don’t like China tea. I still remember the first time I was given it, decades ago, when I was dying for a cuppa and I wasn’t offered a choice. (For me, it’s up (or rather down there with retsina, which I always comment on when it appears as a solution.)
So, sheffield hatter @49, I’m sorry but I wasn’t joking – the emoticon was there as an acknowedgment of the clever surface. I obviously don’t have a sufficiently refined taste! No offence taken for explaining my ‘joke’, though. 😉
[Eileen – wow! I had you marked down as a woman of sophistication and taste! (Obviously, in all other respects you still are.)]
Tough but fair. Another proof that I would fail the Bletchley Park entrance exam.
I don’t suppose there’s anyone else who confidently wrote in “dreidl” for 17d before running check and realizing that the other part was the anagram.
Always a pleasure with Brendan, and thanks PeterO for the blog!
Thank you, PeterO, for the parsings of 9, 10 and 22 across, all of which eluded me, and all of which are (to me) ingenious.
I fell 4 short … enjoyable if a touch harder than the normal Monday fare (I normally see Monday as my one change of a completion!). I’m with Richard at 27 … I’m not sure I’m going to see ‘inci’ as a last ‘section of Leonardo’… maybe I’m not up to that level of clue …. I thought it was going to mean Agree and was an anagram (enciphered) of section plus o (Leonardo’s last). Thanks Peter and Brendan
Late to the show again, so no one will see this, but I’ll comment anyway for my own enjoyment.
Brendan proves that it is possible to create an “easier” puzzle without compromising surfaces, wit, and cleverness. This was a delight from start to (all too soon) finish.
[ Re: 24a EROTIC, I have a theory, supported by absolutely no facts whatever, that Beethoven’s Erioca Symphony was, in a certain sense, unfinished (which adds to the lustre of this clue). The work was to be a tribute to Napoleon, who he thought was a great republican. He had finished the first three movements when Napoleon declared himself Emperor of France. In anger, Beethoven scratched out the dedication to Napoleon from the title page. Then, to mock Napoleon, for the finale he wrote a set of pompous variations on a banal theme, parodying the heroic nature of the first three movements. Thus his original concept remained unfinished. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. ]
…oops, Eroica, of course.
Thanks, PeterO and everyone.
I thought people might wonder why the more-obscure-than-necessary gALANt was chosen.
… and the idea behind erotiC ODEssa and deCO DEnaturating was broken, rather than hidden, codes.
Brian@68 – but was there collaboration with Pasquale? Or was that just coincidence?
Does eROTIC ODEssa deliberately hide ROT 1 CODE.
ROT 1 is a simple cipher that converts A to B, B to C and so forth.
Boffo, ’twas coincidence.
One further comment for the computer scientists. I have some sympathy for their position; I still fight a rearguard action for “the data show…”, “agendum”, and “die” as the singular of “dice”. Dictionaries are now descriptive rather than prescriptive.
No, Raver, not deliberately. I had not heard of ROT 1 till now. Thanks.
Can you expand on the comment: ‘Cambridgeshire pub – not a see in sight’?
I assume what was meant was that ELY is usually defined as a see.
David @73
ELY is usually clued as “see” (as in diocese).
Brian Greer
Thanks for dropping in. I too regret the tendency for dictionaries to be descriptive rather than prescriptive. Vive La France!
Brendan @67
No one seems to have answered this, I think – I didn’t latch on to it anyway. 🙁
No matter how hard I try, whether solving or (especially) blogging, there so often seems to be that extra bit that I miss – but I love it all, of course!
Brian Greer @74
Lovely to see your name in here.
Sue from the old Oxford team.
Fabulous puzzle today despite having to solve it late-in-the-day due to various visits… ho hum.
Lovely to see hero ALAN TURING pop up; on a ‘normal’ day I would be walking past an 10′ statue of him at least twice a week on campus at the University of Surrey, Guildford being the childhood home of the great man. Ho hum again (I miss being on campus SO much but I’m very low-down the list of returners…)
[cellomanic @65: Interesting theory. I remember being told the ‘Eroica/Was Heroic’ story at a Robert Mayer Children’s Concert that we used to attend at the Royal Festival Hall, but I’ve never thoguht of the symphony as unfinished. It is true that the final movement is very-much out-of-place – by classical standards of-the-time, it should be a quite Sonata/Sonata-Rondo form affair and I suspect that you are right in that Beethoven was planning this until Boney went south, dictatorship-wise.
However, there is another element in the replacement movement that I think is relevant – the 4th movement is a theme based on Prometheus, the all powerful god of art and science who overstepped the mark and ended up damned in an eternal, ever-repeating hell; a sort of Groundhog day for despots (watch out Boris… Carrie may be after your liver, mate…). To me, that theme coupled with what seem like endles variations – the last movement is VERY long by contemporary measure – tells me that Ludwig was less-than-impressed and was sending a message.
So yes, I agree that the original concept (Sonata/Funeral March/Scherzo/Sonata-Rondo) was scratched, but I think Beethoven knew exactly what he was doing…]
Good to see Ely pop-up. I’m reminded that Ely Cathedral is huge – about 160m long – and that one very cold November I toddled off to see a string quartet playing there. I got lost, was very late and ended up sitting in the very back row where not only did the cold Fen night blow right up my own fen regions, it was as-much as I could to to tell that somewhere, 160m in front of me, was a string quartet…
Thanks to Brendan and PeterO! Bonne Fete Whatever-it-is-I-forget.
Doug431@56: the Chambers app includes 6 meanings for ‘cipher’, none of which refers to ‘key’, although as you say the web version does. It also defines ‘cipher key’ separately.
It’s a sad state of affairs when even the same dictionary can’t agree with itself.
Ah, Brendan @ 67. So is that Alan (Turing) in his cups (G&T)?
Or if you reverse his surname and substitute ALAN for URIN , (Alan, you are in? ) > gALANt (No indicator though. I think I might be overthinking.)
Brian/Brendan please come back. This is doing my head in.
If dictionaries were solely prescriptive rather than descriptive, how would words such as ‘internet’ or ‘coronavirus’ have emerged?
[Thanks cellomanic @65 & MaidenBartok @78 for the thoughts on Beethoven’s 3rd. I haven’t listened to it for years – in fact it’s possible that I don’t have it on CD and will have to dig out an old vinyl. It will be interesting to hear it again with your theories and insights in mind. And perhaps with thoughts of a “Groundhog day for despots” too!]
I loved this puzzle with the broken codes. Have long been fascinated by the story of the Bletchley Park recruiting process. Found the actual puzzle one day and had a go. It wasn’t all that cryptic but in a way you had to decipher it for the times when it was set.
I’ve since read studies on cryptic solvers ( I think one was posted on 15sq) and interestingly the crack solvers come more from the computing science and engineering fields (failed maths), rather than linguists (topped my class). 🙁
poc @79: Chambers, I’ve learned today, is not the only dictionary publisher whose products exhibit discrepancies.
In the meantime, CIPHER’s three-fold usage as the encryption method, the encrypted message itself, and the key to unlocking the encryption renders the term useless in the comp sci classroom — worse than useless, in fact, because of the ambiguity it introduces.
Hypatia @77. How amazing to hear from you here. If you want to get in touch, Don Manley can give you my contact details.
[ sheffield hatter@82, MB@78’s more evidence-based analysis is consistent with my more fanciful one, in that we both hear the last movement in much the same way. I (we?) would be interested to learn of your reaction on your re-hearing of the work. ]
And a hearty thanks to Brian for dropping in. Just when I think I have savoured all the delights of your puzzles, I learn that they are even more ingenious. I salivate every time I see Brendan at the top of the puzzle page.
[cellomaniac @86 and SH@82: If period perforamances are your thing (and they are VERY MUCH my thing), may I suggest Nikolaus Harnancourt and the Chamber Orchestra of Europe’s CD on Teldec/Warner Classics. It’s a little faster than usual readings but IMvHO flipping good.]
There is another code, arising from 4 down and using a letter from the setter’s name.
Thank you Brian Greer/Brendan @67+68, I always miss some deeper/hidden meaning in your puzzles, long may they continue!
Gazzh @ 89. Can you let us all (ie me) in on Brendan’s tip @67.
It’s late, it’s not a prize. can you please?
I think Brendan just used gALANt so he could include ALAN for ALAN TURING.
He could not get ALAN in the grid by itself.
paddymelon@90, Roz@91 has it quite right (thank you Roz). Given the theme and setter I had looked around the grid assuming that there would be some other “coded message” or hidden phrase somewhere and had even raised an eyebrow when GALANT appeared (I just knew it as a car) but didn’t spot what was right in front of me – a regular failure of mine!
Thanks Gazzh and Roz. Saw the ALAN, was wondering if there was more to it. As I said @80 I might have been overthinking.
Eileen @59, I too would not drink China tea for all the tea in China.
I got properly stuck halfway through this puzzle, until I returned to it this evening. I’m now properly stuck halfway through today’s Tramp!
This is very late indeed, but I really have only just completed this excellent crossword. I have enjoyed reading most of the comments too, and I’d like to highlight Anna van Hoof’s contribution @4 as being of great interest to me (1) because of my abiding interest in and admiration for Alan Turing and his team of codebreakers (recruited in part from the ranks of chessplayers and crossword solvers) and (2) because of a Brisbane connection that I knew nothing about and was amazed to learn right here. [I am a Brit who has visited Brisbane many times. My daughter and her young family live on the Sunshine Coast, as does a friend of mine who posts here from time to time.]