Guardian Cryptic 28,490 by Nutmeg

122 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,490 by Nutmeg”

1. Loved the NINAs! Thanks Nutmeg and Loonapick.

2. As Surtac pointed out on the Guardian thread, Nutmeg has squeezed four NINAs into lines four and twelve.

3. And another one in the middle…

4. I completely missed them!!!

5. Thanks Nutmeg, and loonapick, for unpicking some clues: SOLICITED – forgot the OED, again; and OUTSELL – didn’t know L could be plural lines.

   BRONCOS I got by dint of putting ELEANOR B into google, which then suggested several alternatives amongst which were BRON.

   Enjoyed this, but didn’t spot the NINAs despite looking for one in the second row – I should have looked further.

6. BRON is also a radio actor (currently in the Archers)

7. Very clever stuff with the Ninas but I was most taken with BRONCOS today. Really tickled me.

   Thanks Nutmeg and loonapick

8. I thought I was going to be stuck after the first few clues but when I got going it started flowing. Great fun! Thanks Nutmeg and loonapick

9. As usual found Nutmeg tough but got there in the end except for TRENT and had a few unparsed.

   Liked THEATRE, SARKY, OLIVE TREE, TRANNIE.

   For once remembered OED for dictionary THE/A for articles and ANNE for Queen.

   Think MALADROIT is a lovely word and it was a good anagram.

   Thanks to Nutmeg and loonapick

10. I reckon “river” means “river” even outside Crosswordland 🙂 I guess you meant “flower or runner” in 12a. Brilliant crossword & lovely nina. GAMBA was new to me.

11. Hard to pick a fave from so many lovely candidates but MALADROIT stands out for me – possibly because it’s such a lovely word. I suppose the cliche klaxon could be sounded for banker and our french mate but that seems churlish in the circumstances

    [cloudy loonapick – consider yourself fortunate – I’m building an ark!]

12. Hovis@10 – well spotted, will edit later.

13. A lovely Nutmeg puzzle – as loonapick says “always fun to solve with clean surfaces and a sense of humour”. My favourites were BLOSSOM, SUGAR CANE, SARKY and RISEN, along with the lyrical OLIVE TREE.

14. Thanks, loonapick – I agree with every word of your preamble (OLIVE TREE is superb.)

    I also had ticks for the clever constructions and surfaces in 9ac OUTSELL, 10ac UNLOOSE (the definition of this word has always baffled me), 23ac SUGAR CANE, 26ac ARSENIC, 28ac TANNERY, 1dn BRONCOS, 6dn SPLIT PEAS, 8dn THEATRE and the topical 16dn INDIGNANT – although there were no dud clues anywhere.

    Many thanks, Nutmeg, for a fun start to the day.

15. I completely missed the ninas.
    My first one in was ‘sight’ at 3d which, of course, proved to be wrong and was corrected later.
    Looking for Nutmeg’s customary tricks, I noticed that several of the solutions had ‘almost’ Greek letters embedded, but that was, intentionally or otherwise, a red herring.
    All in all, yet another delicious offering from Nutmeg and, as usual from her, a puzzle that seemed at first impenetrable turned out to be not only solvable but unfolded most pleasurably.
    Thanks to setter, blogger and the contributors who enlightened me about the ninas.

16. yesyes @8: YesYes! Started VERY slowly and found much dropped in as I went along. Completely missed the NINAs until my LOI which was ENCHANTER

    As has often been said on this forum but I’m convinced no-one quite understands, tough-but-fair.

    I am going to take a very slight exception to 22a. The instrument isn’t actually a ‘GAMBA’ – that just means ‘leg’ in Italian. It is a ‘Viola da gamba’ which is an iteration of a much earlier instrument, the viol, the bottom of which was then placed on the floor much as you see a modern ‘cello played. Yes, the shorthand today is sometimes ‘gamba’ but more frequently it is pronounced as a single word, ‘Viola-da-gamba.’

    [By means of an ear-worm, Marin Marais’ (master of the Viola-da-gamba) wonderful ‘Sonnerie de Saint Genèvieve du Mont-de-Paris’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAoxkVQ5NDA ]

    Thanks to Nutmeg and loonapick!

17. Perhaps I’m being a FUSSPOT, but I found little that challenged, during a very-fast-solve, and – as is often the case – I find myself at odds with the general enthusiastic sentiment of most of the above comments.. However in an effort to offer an OLIVE TREE branch, I did get a half-smile out of TANNERY (rels of mine used to live next door to one).
    And to be truthful, almost got into a kerfuffle over the intersection of 22A and 18D with an alternative solve-pair that fitted almost as well, but quickly saw the error of my ways – and once amended made them the last-two-in.

18. Thanks Nutmeg and loonapick
    Not hard, but great fun. I loved TANNERY for the definition.
    I raised an eyebrow at “instrument” for GAMBA too – a drawback of speaking (some) Italian. I assumed it’s a “leg viola” as it’s rested on your leg rather than placed under your chin. Chambers does give GAMBA as informal for the full name, though.

19. Slow but steady, thanks Nutmeg. Could not parse a couple, thanks loonapick. And I did not know either laminar or gamba but managed to guess them both from the clues. And it is at last brightening up a bit here in Cambridge!

20. Another elegant puzzle from the Spice Girl (clever, too, with all those NINAS, which of course escaped me completely).

    MALADROIT, OLIVE TREE, TANNERY and the cheeky UNLOOSE were favourites.

    Like MaidenBartok @16, GAMBA raised an eyebrow. Informal usage, apparently, though I have never come across it before. Certainly an Italian would never use it! [but then they never shorten ‘violoncello’ to ‘cello’, which would be just a meaningless diminutive suffix – violoncello has both an augmentative and a diminutive one: ‘little big viola’]

    Thanks to Nutmeg and loonapick

21. MaidenBartok@16, thanks for the Marin Marais! I too was baffled by GAMBA, having always heard the full name.

22. Did not parse OLIVE TREE, SENATOR.
    Needed help from google to understand the Eleanor/Ford Mustang Bronco connections: “Tuning company Zero to 60 Designs took a 1975 Ford Bronco and updated it to look like the “Eleanor” Mustang from “Gone in 60 Seconds.”
    ref https://www.motor1.com/news/139281/ford-bronco-eleanor-restoration/
    and
    https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1109419_classic-ford-bronco-pays-homage-to-eleanor-mustang
    Never heard of the actress Eleanor Bron.

    Liked UNLOOSE, SIGNS UP (loi).

23. Confidently entered BANLIEU for 10ac, until I realised that Ban doesn’t mean free. Is a FUSSPOT an agitator? I always forget Rene as a Frenchman. In the days when your parents’ friends were all uncles or aunties I had an Uncle Rene, an Auntie Renee and my grandmother was always looking for her Rennies – confusing for a young lad. Excellent puzzle, though. Thanks.

24. How could I have missed 5 Simones!?
    Great stuff-never heard the instrument called a GAMBA without the VIOL DE
    Thanks all

25. [Correction to my bracketed comment @20: I had always assumed that -(c)ello was a simple diminutive suffix like -ino and -etto, though much rarer than either. However, on checking I discover that it has meliorative connotations. So a violoncello is a nice little big viola. Italian does wonderful things with suffixes]

26. An old mate, a cellist, had one and he called it viol da gambia. And yes, Nutmeg elegant as ever, of which 27a portray is a prime example, though I do find unloose uncomfortable. I sometimes check for ninas, but not today; hey ho, will re-look at grid shortly. Trannies are essential to life…several around the house here [In the early ’60s there was one with a solar panel, which then disappeared off the market .. hmm]. I associate laminar with building products, but I do vaguely recall its zool meaning. So, enjoyable with, as per loonapick, a bit to chew on in the SW, thanks both.

27. [michelle @22 Eleanor Bron played Ahme in the Beatles film Help! Paul McCartney came up with the name “Eleanor” from Ms Bron when he wrote Eleanor Rigby. Maybe he was thinking of you when he wrote another song?]

    Thanks Nutmeg and loonapick

28. .. gamba ..

29. [grantinfreo @26: I haven’t heard it referred to as a Tranny or a Transistor for decades! I do remember my grandmother having a ‘National Panasonic Transistorized Radio’ (q.v.) in a brown leather case which she used to listen to Voice of Russia…

    Being a sad-old geek, I’ve just found the circuit diagram for it (‘schematic’ for our American friends) and counted 12, yes 12 transistors.

    By comparison, my super-duper new MacBook Air M1 has 16 billion of the blighters in it…]

30. MB@16 As far as I know, the viola da gamba and the viol are two names for the same instrument — viols is what they were called in England, and Shakespeare probably knew people who played them. None of them are played resting directly on the floor — but then neither is a cello, which rests on a spike that holds it off the floor. All of the viol family — treble, tenor and bass — were played held between the knees. Their necks are fretted, like a guitar’s, but with gut frets tied around the neck rather than inlaid metal.

    I’ve never heard of Eleanor Bron either, but I’m quite impressed by Dave Ellison@5’s ingenious way of finding her. Nor have I ever heard of the michelle@22’s complicated car lore — some find, michelle! I’m not sure Nutmeg had that in mind, but she may have.

    Petert@23 What were your grandmother’s Rennies?

    Is a tranny a radio? Short for transistor? News to me.

31. [MaidenBartok @ 16 – Appreciating the music of Marin Marais, you have probably seen the 1991 film, ‘Tous Les Matins du Monde’, starring Gerard Depardieu as the master himself and featuring much of his own music and that of his contemporaries. I rented it from Blockbuster when there was still Blockbuster and there were still video cassette players. Nowadays it seems hard to find, although I would love to revisit it. If you or anyone else on the forum knows where to look for it, I would be grateful.]

32. Spooner’s @ 31

    Assuming you’re in UK, Tous Les Matins Du Monde is available from amazon as DVD or BR, along with a soundtrack CD.

33. [MB @29, that’s the Sobranie-smoking borscht-making babushka, yeah? And yes, I remember those Panasonics in their brown leather covers. Don’t remember the brand of the battery/solar hybrid, but for the ’60s it was innovative. 16 billion transistors! That is some exponential curve!]

34. Puff,puff, no time, hurry – thanks both; lovely puzzle.

    Valentine@30: Rennies are chalky pastilles-ish chewed to combat indegestion.

    Moustache. Puff, puff……

35. Valentine @ 30 – ‘Rennies’ was the name for a brand of indigestion tablets (don’t know if they’re still around).

36. What Eileen @14 said and I’d add SOLVE as another that raised a smile. I didn’t spot the ninas either – but that’s nothing new. Many thanks to Nutmeg and loonapick.

37. Valentine @30. I am reminded of the ad (was it Ward ‘Pally’ Austin – for Sydneysiders only) “Even granny tunes her Tranny to the new UW” – for the radio station 2UW in Sydney in the 1960s. So, yes, it was short for a transistor radio, when such were amazing new gadgets.

38. This was a terrific crossword, but to add to the nitpicking on 22 the country is more properly referred to as “The Gambia”. This was apparently chosen to avoid possible confusion with Zambia (or, for Mr Trump, Nambia).

    Thanks to Nutmeg and loonapick

39. [gif @33: The same! I gave up trying to repair stuff several years ago when everything went surface mount and my eyesight didn’t follow suit…

    I’m just reminded that that the first radio I built had zero transistors but one diode (OC44 I think). Is that half a transistor?

    SC @31: Fab film, good for one’s French although the desire to fire-up a Gitane up after is high. Of course one may be able to find it quite easily on BitTorrent or similar I hear tale… There was a programme about the film on The Early Music Show on Radio 3 about 10 years ago if I remember correctly.]

40. WhiteKing @36 – just for the record, SOLVE was on my list, too: as I said, I agreed entirely with loonapick’s preamble. (I wouldn’t like you to think I’d missed that little gem. 😉 )

41. Great puzzle!

    Did anyone notice the ninas who wasn’t explicitly looking for them? They’re so obvious once pointed out, but I like some others didn’t see them at all.

42. When rodshaw @17 tells me that this crossword had “little that challenged, during a very-fast-solve”, I have to remind myself that he once recommended a very, very difficult Araucaria from about 2003, which I then completed in under half an hour, otherwise it would be just too humiliating.

    I got only one clue on the first pass, and had fewer than 10 entries after an hour. I find Nutmeg’s surfaces so smooth that I am unable to pick out the cryptic elements until I have a few crossers to help me, but crossers were few and far between for a long time this morning. ‘Market more than’=OUTSELL was my last one in, immediately preceded by Eleanor Bron’s ‘wild ponies semi-trained’, and these two super-difficult clues summarise what I find so tricky about Nutmeg.

    Now rodshaw will come back on to tell me that those two were write-ins!

43. I spotted the NINAs about halfway through (maybe my first time ever doing so!), so that actually helped me solve the bottom half. Last in was GAMBA (I checked to see if there were an instrument called a GUNEA at one point before the crossing letter told me I had tried the wrong African country).

    I mainly know “trannie” as a now-considered-rude term for a transgender person, but I think it’s come up in these crosswords as a transistor radio before, so I wasn’t too alarmed. Two countries divided etc.

44. Thanks loonapick as I hadn’t understood the working of “sunk” in my LOI RISEN where I had expected an N to appear in the middle somewhere, and forgot about the lettuce (was relieved it was Eleanor Bron as I only know 2 others). I also over-complicated the excellent OLIVE TREE by removing the letters of SOL before counting up and twigging, and was held up on SOLVE because I couldn’t quite equate SOLE with “alone” (preferring solo or lone) but eventually got there. Luckily my musical knowledge was just sufficient to have heard of GAMBA without ruling it out for not-quite-rightness. I found plenty of others to savour eg the humble SPLIT PEAS and even saw the NINAs which led to me wondering if they pointed to anything else but if so I couldn’t find it. Thanks very much Nutmeg.

45. Twigged BLOSSOM straight away and thought I was on to a winner, then came up short for quite some time. Gradually, however, the puzzle unfolded with the usual mix of elegant surfaces and mischievous definitions. Favourites already mentioned by others but a shout out to COMPENDIA and MALADROIT. Totally missed the NINAS, of course. Many thanks to loonapick for the blog and to Nutmeg for all the entertainment.

46. I’m not quite a lone voice crying in the wilderness (although that is a status with which I’m not unfamiliar) but I didn’t much enjoy this puzzle. Finished in around 15 minutes. Particularly disliked BRONCOS. Didn’t spot the NINA, but then I seldom, if ever, do. I consider them a waste of a solver’s time, as the setter says “Look at me, aren’t I clever ?”

47. Thanks sheffield hatter @42 for explaining my difficulty with Nutmeg (I think this is the first I’ve stuck with to completion). I’ve always struggled with Nutmeg, and your theory about the smoothness of the surfaces explains both my difficulty and why Nutmeg is highly rated by others.

    Pleased to have been able to enjoy one for myself at last. OLIVE TREE first one in, and the sort of clue I’ll remember later for both its cleverness and (small victory this) my own!

48. Missed the NINA’s unfortunately; would have added to the enjoyment if I had seen them.

    I was interested to see TRANNIE, although as mrpenney @43 points out, we have had this before. It’s a very familiar term to me from my youth, when transistor radios were so new and exciting. I have always thought it was just an Australian colloquialism and this is supported to some extent by TassieTim @37 and by the OED, with the first quotation for the “tranny” entry being from the Brisbane Courier-Mail in 1969.

    Thanks to Nutmeg and loonapick

49. Thanks for the blog. All very nice and well set and clever with the hidden words but just once could we please have some clues that make us think and work and struggle.

50. Times Refugee @46. Given your solving time, which implies less than 30 seconds per clue, I’m surprised you had time to “particularly dislike BRONCOS”. It would be interesting if you could analyse just what it was you disliked about the clue, and whether you felt this dislike before, during or after solving.

51. I thought bron was pushing it a bit. Star in Help (1960s) but otherwise up to Nutmegs high standard . Does beg the question for Editor Hugh about younger solvers GK. Must admit I looked for Rigby connection

52. Times Refugee @46 “Look at me, aren’t I clever ?” – that’s a bit rich coming from someone who never fails to brag about their solving time – Mr Pot meet Mrs Kettle?

53. Thanks Nutmeg for a very pleasant SOLVE, with little input required, nothing to incite unSOLICITED, SARKY or PREACHY comments, and no need to be an INDIGNANT FUSSPOT or cause a SCENE. But there was plenty to make me SIT UP and be grateful. And a compendium of unseen Ninas to boot! Thanks loonapick for help with BRONCOS.
    OLIVE TREE was res miranda!

54. Am I missing something really obvious here? Though I can see them in the grid, I have no idea what the significance is of NINA. Please can someone enlighten me? Thanks.

55. [BigNorm @54
    See the FAQ section of this site.]

56. Times Refugee @46: as one who got a kick out of BRONCOS, I’m sorry you found it so distasteful. “Didn’t spot the NINA, but then I seldom, if ever, do. I consider them a waste of a solver’s time” – Just how much time do you feel you waste ‘spotting’? If you went looking, I might have more sympathy but a spot is nigh instantaneous isn’t it. With not wasting time on either spotting or solving, what will you do with it all?

57. [Muffin @55] Thanks. Having read it I wish I’d remained in blissful ignorance. Though many here seem impressed by them, I’m afraid I’m with the one commenter above who sees them as a way only for the setter to show how clever he or she is. I won’t bother looking for them again, that’s for sure.

58. [PostMark @56: Simply to waste a bit more of Times Refugee’s time, the Ninas reminded me that as a small child I used to run around the garden pretending to be a police car shouting ‘Ni-na ni-na ni-na ni-na ni-na’ (almost always a minor 3rd, usually somewhere around C6 to A5 until Doppler shift kicks-in…) The French police siren was much nicer though being the same Ni-Na but a perfect 4th.]

59. Yes sheffield hatter, they were both write-ins (does this make us even now?)
    About half were write-ins at the first pass, and the rest fell at the next pass — apart from the couple I got in a twist and had to correct.
    Looking again at the clues I can’t imagine the level of difficulty as expressed in all the above comments (except by Times Refugee).
    And by the way sheffield hatter, if you really want a challenge, try any Friday cryptic in the Sydney Herald set by the legendary David Astle … a thirty-minute solve of those and I bow to you for ever.

60. I found this more of a challenge than some. Contrary to my recent attempts at solving in order, I found myself starting in the SE corner. The SW followed but I struggled a bit the further up I went.

    High praise for most of the clues esp COTD 16d INDIGNANT, with a brilliant contemporary surface. Also fine clues at 15a, 23a and 8d.

    But, BRONCOS and TRANNIE leave me cold. Yes I got them, because I’m 63 and remember the actress and an old style radio. But seriously who under 50 would be familiar with either? I think this is one reason younger solvers are so put off

    Otherwise a fine puzzle so thanks to Nutmeg and loonapick

61. Thanks Nutmeg, that was excellent. I agree with sheffield hatter @42 regarding surfaces so smooth that cryptic elements (and definitions) are difficult to discern — when the light comes on, however, it’s very satisfying and it’s why I do these crosswords. OLIVE TREE, ARSENIC, TANNERY, SUGAR CANE, UNLOOSE, OPTIMAL, and THEATRE were among my favourites. Thanks loonapick for parsing — though I completed the SW corner I didn’t understand all of it.

62. [rodshaw @59. I don’t think I’ve ever solved a cryptic as rapidly as you regularly do, but quite apart from the appropriate amount of respect, I’m also somewhat surprised that you still bother with what must seem an increasingly trivial pastime. For example, when I started doing sudokus, I quickly stopped doing those graded as easy because there was nothing to them, and the same applied when I started on killer sudokus. But I seem to have reached the limit of the improvement in my ability to solve cryptics and there are always two or three or twenty clues that I struggle with – for which I am thankful, as I still find them sufficiently challenging to be enjoyable.]

63. [MaidenBartok@58 Were there also major seconds? I agree, french sirens are nice: they sound more confident of catching criminals than their slightly plangent english counterparts.]

64. Great puzzle. And of course, I missed the NINAs – I am completely inept at finding these!

65. [ Rodshaw @59 I do not suppose it is available as a paper copy in this country ? I only time myself for the Azed and I have never broken 30 minutes although I often break 35 on the easier Plain Azed puzzles. ]

66. Is it a race?

67. Roz @65 I live in California, but a rel sends me a paper copy a week late.
    I think it’s available on-line for a fee, but as a born-tyke I’m too mean to pay.
    I understand a whole team of fans meet together at the time it is issued, and have great fun completing it collectively, such is the fame of the puzzle.
    On a good day I can complete it in one hour, but occasionally it lasts to two, and sometimes the Oz-isms are a separate challenge, but researching those is fun, also.
    I never can understand those who complain about local knowledge, or about old-time knowledge of any description (as above) that they are unfamiliar with.

68. [ Thank you Rodshaw, alas I never solve online, has to be in the actual newspaper with a pen. When I was a student our common room used to get American and Australian newspapers but this may have died out with the internet. Perhaps next time I am in London I will see if the main railway stations still stock newspapers from abroad, they used to. Is it always Friday and the Sydney Herald ? ]

69. Oh dear! It seems that the recent interventions, including today’s, by Times Refugee have triggered a minor outbreak of discussion of individual contributors’ solving times. During the 6 months or so that I have been participating in this forum, I have had the distinct impression that this was considered ‘bad form’, although not in breach of any guidelines. It may be standard practice in the Times – I wouldn’t know – but I feel, albeit perhaps I am mistaken, that the absence of this, whether or not it amounts to ‘bragging’, as bodycheetah calls it @52, is a healthy and hospitable feature of this meeting-place.

70. [Spooner’s catflap @69
    Yes, the tone seems to have been unusually “snippy” today. I hope new posters realise that it isn’t generally like this here.]

71. I would hardly call taking 15 minutes to do this bragging.

72. AZED gets a mention above, but did anybody else spot the amazing coincidence between the clue for 21d and the almost identical clue for 9d in the latest (4 July) AZED. The AZED clue reads as follows: “Given to sermons a church introduced to quarry”. Answer also PREACHY.

73. I didn’t really intend to stir up quite such a hornets’ nest ! Everybody has their own view, andI respect most of those put by others. However :

    Sheffield hatter @50 – the opening words from Cedric @51 answer your question. I remember Eleanor Bron in “Help !” but felt she was a little obscure unless one was tackling AZED or Mephisto.

    Post Mark @56 – just solving the puzzle is far from the point. I set puzzles myself on a pretty amateur basis (at QC level) and there are times when I take longer in analysing the surface of the clue afterwards to enjoy and learn from the setter’s artistry.

    Buddy @66 – it’s not a race, but I always time myself. It’s the habit of many who take part in the Times Championship. And so, bodycheetah@52, Roz @71 has it absolutely on the money. It might be bragging if I claimed 8 minutes or less, but by my own high standards 15 minutes is on the slow side. However, I won’t mention times in future now that it’s been pointed out that it’s not really the done thing here (it is on times for the times).

    Apologies if I’ve offended anybody – that was certainly not my intention !

74. [Roz @71. I would hardly call taking 15 minutes to do this bragging. It’s not the doing it in 15 minutes that is bragging, it’s the coming here to tell us about it that can be perceived as bragging. 🙂 ]

75. Fair point , I see that now.
    [ Barbara @72, there will be an Azed blog for that puzzle this coming Sunday 11th , please join in and I will discuss it with you then ]

76. Times Refugee @73. Thanks for replying to my question. I also felt that Eleanor Bron was a little obscure, and it was a clue that I solved by finally realising that ‘Eleanor leaves wild ponies semi-trained’ was not actually an instruction to take a version of Eleanor (of which there are many: Nora, Nellie, Ellie, etc) from an anagram (wild? or trained?) of some combination of the letters of what turned out to be the definition. Once I’d got BRONCOS I could see Bron, of course. But I didn’t dislike the clue – I thought it was well constructed, and being misled (by myself as much as by Nutmeg) before eventually solving it gave me a feeling of satisfaction. It probably took me almost as long to solve this clue as it took you to do the whole crossword!

77. [rodshaw @59&67. Thanks for the suggestion. I have had a look online and have paid an initial subscription of AUS$2.90 per month (increasing to AUS$5.80 after three months). I would have thought the postage to California will probably set your relative in Oz back a little more than that!

    I’ve made a start on last Friday’s by Dave Astle, but was trying to watch the Tour de France at the same time, so will try again later when I can give it more attention.

    If anyone else is interested, here’s a link: https://www.smh.com.au/puzzles/crosswords/cryptic/2021-07-02%5D

78. [Sorry, forgot about the square brackets corrupting the link.]

    https://www.smh.com.au/puzzles/crosswords/cryptic/2021-07-02

79. Unless it’s a competition (they do exist, but this isn’t one), or you’re going after a personal best, I think solving time is largely irrelevant. What counts (for me) is the number of Aha! moments and smiles. If you can get a bunch of these when solving in 10 minutes, then more power to you! If you can’t, then I don’t see the point. Sometimes, if I finish quickly (for me), I’m disappointed that the fun is over so soon.

    BTW, although I never met her, I have 2-degrees-of-separation with Eleanor Bron, so that helped. I also knew of her pre-Help (David Frost et al.), where some of the other grey-haired members here may also have seen her, but maybe have forgotten.

80. Sheffield hatter @74 : If I took 175 minutes and mentioned that fact, it certainly wouldn’t be bragging ! However, prior to pledging to omit my timings in future, I would have mentioned that fact had it occurred. It’s a Times habit, and I shall leave it over there in future.

81. sheffield hatter … I admire your wealth ! I suspect you are now a week ahead of me, I sometimes find it difficult to keep track. When you get back to it, let me know the first clue. And yes, I was watching the Manx Missile, also.
    By the way, I’ve managed to complete every DA puzzle over the past two years, except for several cases of extreme Oz-ism-clues which are beyond research.

82. I think it’s a times-specific thing to mention solving times. The puzzle is blogged on a site called times-xwd-times@livejournal.com, and the setter (generally) and many of the commenters post their times.

    Dr WhatsOn @ 79: I heartily agree with your first para. It’s not that i disagree with your second, though.

    And wasn’t Eleanor Bron in Magical Mystery Tour too?

83. Eleanor Bron was also in Bedazzled with Peter Cook and Dudley Moore. She is a fine comic actor (though not only that) and much to the delight of Archers fans makes the occasional appearance as the mysterious and sophisticated Carol Tregorran.

84. I saw Eleanor Bron last week; she was in the latest episode of Yes Minister (currently being re-run by BBC 4 on Tuesday evenings). She played a talented Under-Secretary in Jim Hacker’s Department, whom he tries and fails to promote as part of his ill-fated equal opportunities drive. Tonight’s episode is the one about civil defence and fallout shelters.

    Her wiki entry states that ‘’in 1985 Bron was selected, for her authoritative tone, to become ‘the voice of BT’ and can still be heard on various British telephone error messages such as ‘The number you have dialled has not been recognised, please check and try again’ “. So I tried it… but unless she’s developed a rather attractive Yorkshire accent it’s not her.

    I share Petert @23’s doubts about FUSSPOT = agitator. A fusspot may well get agitated, but wouldn’t that make him/her an agitatee?

    Also hmmm’d at RAY = large streak. A streak is a smear, not a straight line like a ray. I suppose a meteor can streak across the sky in a straight line, but then the ‘large’ spoils it. Large normally means wide, not long, and the wider a streak the less ray-like it is. I even wondered if it was a reference to a famous larger-than-average streaker called Ray. (Well, there was Ray Stevens… don’t look, Ethel!)

    Otherwise, three cheers for the OLIVE TREE and the ever blossoming nutmeg tree, not to mention the ever blossoming loonapick.

85. ,You beat me to it MrEssexboy , I saw her in Yes Minister, she was brilliant, very jealous of her hair.

86. Was Eleanor Bron on That was the weeek that was ?

87. We have a streak of lightning but that is not a ray either. Is a streak a small marine animal ? I will look it up later.

88. [me @86
    Wiki says no!]

89. essexboy @84. I had similar doubts about ‘streak’=RAY but not to the extent of reaching Chambers down from the shelf. I thought of the way that the sun’s rays are depicted in paintings, especially when clouds are involved.

    I justified ‘agitator’=FUSSPOT by interposing stirrer/disruptor – it seems to work if you think about how one member of a mixed group can spoil a day out by making demands that the majority feel they have to accommodate against their will. (I’m a vegan.)

90. [Muffin @86 & 88 – no, she was on the follow-up, ‘Not So Much a Programme, More a Way of Life’, also fronted by David Frost.]

91. [Thanks SC – I thought there was a Frost connection.]

92. [sh @89: I’d never call a vegan a FUSSPOT; occasionally PREACHY, perhaps; maybe a PIONEER? 😉 ]

93. Yes, the customary Nutmeg quality (and fun), further enhanced by the unexpected multiple Ninas.
    Unlike my solving partner, I hadn’t heard of Eleanor Bron (despite having a DVD of “Help!” [which is still in its cover] ….) and so BRONCOS was my/our last one in.
    Before this particular crossword, I did today’s Times.
    It took its blogger (on Times for The Times, the place where speed solvers meet) over 40 minutes while I thought it was much easier than Nutmeg’s offering, therefore having everything done and dusted in less time.
    But I don’t care, actually – I love solving a crossword, any proper crossword.
    However, if you tackle so many crosswords as I do (around 30 a week), you will see some effects.
    I am saying this not to ‘brag’ but to make clear why, for me, this wasn’t Nutmeg at her most difficult.
    While I echo all the praise, I still have some issues with a couple of clues.
    Dave Ellison @5 is so far the only one to question L = ‘lines’.
    Never seen that before, and I cannot find any justification in the UK dictionaries and therefore parsing 9ac (OUTSELL) kind of puzzled me (and my solving partner, too).
    We also agreed on the order of things in the next clue (10ac, UNLOOSE).
    Is “one gathers, in Paris” really the same as “one, in Paris, gathers”?
    Well, perhaps it is when you read it in a certain way.
    Good crossword, though.
    Many thanks for that to Nutmeg, plus thanks to Loonapick for the blog.

94. essexboy @90. I hope not PREACHY, but I can understand how FUSSPOT might be the general conclusion. I always seem to be lecturing kitchen staff on the need to include some protein in a meal, so ‘agitator’ was a natural fit.]

95. Sil @93. UNLOOSE held me up for the same reason. It’s a bit ‘loose’ to apply ‘in Paris’ to ‘one’ when the operand is intervening. The alternative ‘one in Paris gathers’ rather gives the game away, so I was prepared to allow the setter some latitude. (Though I agree with Eileen @14 that UNLOOSE is an odd word, with its use of UN as what appears to be an intensifier.)

96. Came to this late today, but quite glad I missed all the lively chitchat about solving times…my loi SARKY, btw…
    Anyway, I do clearly remember seeing Eleanor Bron playing the part of the character of Hermione Roddice in Ken Russell’s 1969 film “Women In Love”…she left quite an impression on me at the time.

97. Ronald@96 Is that the version with Alan Bates and Oliver Reed ? I think Ken Russell can be a little overwrought at times.

98. An odd one today…RHS a breeze, LHS a complete mystery, I could not get one answer on the RHS. Still, it looked nice.
    Thanks both.

99. Roz@97…yes it was, and with Glenda Jackson too…

100. Brilliant (how did Nutmeg shoehorn in those nina-ninas?), witty and very entertaining. Many thanks you guys!

101. It’s not a Big Issue for me, however, I’m still waiting for someone to tell me more about 9ac (and especially the double-L).
     Thus far it seems that everyone here has a dictionary from the ones I have.

102. ….has a dictionary different from ….

103. Loved OLIVE TREE and TANNERY and TRANNIE and SARKY and SOLVE and ………… Thankyou Nutmeg, and loonapick

     I’m a regular solver of David Astle’s cryptics in Friday’s Sydney Morning Herald, but I’d imagine he might not appeal to many Guardian solvers as his clues often stretch the limits . He can be quite amusing though and the pain is worth it for the chuckles, or groans, He was relegated from the Saturday (then prize) edition because of letters to the Editor. People wanted to have a chance of winning the Macquarie Dictionary. The Saturday setter DS is more conventional but quite enjoyable. The other days of the week the cryptics are quite poor, and I’m very grateful to have the daily pleasure of the Guardian crosswords and blogs.

     Sil van den Hoek @ 93. You made it worth reading all the way down to the bottom of the blog (so far) to find someone who also thought that the grammar in UNLOOSE was a bit, well, loose, Agree, it should have been “one, in Paris, gathers” and I can’t read in any other way that makes sense.

104. Loonapick, in 6d you need the S from ‘it’s’ to complete the anagram.

105. Tried to start solving whilst giving blood but impossible. Came back after footy, Wimbledon and Tour highlights… just so busy…. and no Nina

     Thanks Nutmeg and Loonapick

106. Sil@101 you are quite right for 9AC , there is no justification of L for lines anywhere, however when a crossword is this easy and over so quickly I can never be bothered nitpicking at individual clues, just hope for something better today.

107. Please! What are NINAS?

108. Sil@93 – I had no problem with L= Line/s as I was sure i had seen it before and assumed it was used in literary source references (chapter, verse, act, scene etc) but now as Roz@106 states I can’t actually find evidence for this anywhere (I have no print dictionary and only search free sites online). I did find a website claiming that Line is sometimes abbreviated to LL in some technical uses but this is i) dubious ii) obscure and iii) singular Line providing double L so still unsatisfactory.

109. Ragazza 15 @107 please see the FAQ ( in short, a hidden message in the grid, here quite explicitly – NINA appears 5 times)

110. Gazzh@108 lines for LL would actually be okay but there is 50 there as well to spoil this idea.

111. Roz @110. Yes, that’s the nub of the matter. Is it possible that, perhaps like Everyman with ‘copper’=CU in the anagrist last Sunday, the setter got a little carried away by the smooth and apposite surface? It was ‘bent copper’ for Everyman, and now ‘more than 50 lines’ for Nutmeg. As Sil said on the Everyman thread, he can tolerate it as a solver, but as a setter would have hoped to have done better.

112. Firstly thanks to Roz for inviting me to this party. Expecting to Roman empty-handed I can contribute 50 being one of the Ls in 9.

113. Will someone please explain “The Nina”?

114. Glad you enjoyed it Paul@112 , there is a Vulcan on here as well somewhere from Monday.

     A NINA is a hidden message somewhere in the grid. In this case , starting on the N of BRONCOS we have NINA NINA going across. Same for the N of SIGNS UP. Also the join of FAUNA INDIGNANT going upwards.
     Personally I wish the setters would concentrate on providing better and harder clues but I think I am in a minority of one.

115. Thanks Roz, yes I enjoyed that one too. Good thing I’ve got time on my hands and the beach isn’t so inviting here at this time of year.

116. Re GAMBA: I have a friend who is an early music specialist, and he calls himself a cellist and gamba player. We used to apostrophise ‘cellist, but not any more.

     Would we complain if a clue referred to the bass, rather than the double bass or the bass viol?

     Since the endpin is part of the instrument, I would say that the cello is placed on the floor (unless it is a baroque cello, which is held, like a gamba, between the legs, supported by the calves.)

     [ MaidenBartok, I once saw Yo-Yo Ma perform the Bartok Viola Concerto, using a modified viola with an end pin (which he placed on the chair), so he could play it like a cello. ]

117. [Paul@115 the beach is always inviting, it is summer here but I swim in the sea all through winter as well ]

     Thank you cellomaniac @116 always nice to hear from someone with knowledge in a specialist field .
     From the horse’s mouth as we say.

118. [You’re absolutely right Roz, though I tend to swap goggles for paddleboard at this time of year.]

119. [Paul@118 I do not know about the sea in NZ but on our North West coast the sea temperature hardly varies all year round. It is the temperature when you get out that is the problem. ]

120. [Some swim year round here but I prefer being on (not in) the water from May to September.]

121. [Paul, there was a Brummie puzzle in the Guardian LAST Saturday, I am sure you can find it. The blog is on this site TODAY, we are always a week behind for Saturday blogs, I think you will enjoy it.
     I have never used surf boards or these modern paddle boards, just like to swim ]

122. Why is a ray a LARGE streak?

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