Financial Times 16,865 by HAMILTON

21 comments on “Financial Times 16,865 by HAMILTON”

1. Thanks for the exercise on a wet free on Hamilton.
   In 23a, I took the “with” to be FOR and the “all else” at the end meaning everything went before that. Seems to be constructed backwards though.
   In 10d, I wondered if MISTLET was a fancy cloud cover as MISTLE specifies rain droplets. Otherwise I agree with the LET HUSH idea.
   I also wondered about ELUCIDATE being a better fit for 3d but it didn’t fit.
   Thanks for the explanations Teacow.

2. That should be “afternoon” in line 1 – dyslexic fingers.

3. I don’t know if this is what you meant Mystogre @1, but I’ve modified the parsing to have “wanting” as FOR. Thanks!

4. Thanks for the blog, 23AC I see it now, your “wanting ” is defined under FOR in CHAMBERS, I think the definition could be commiserate with.
   !0 D I cannot find any reason for LET being MADE FOR.
   The rest is pretty good, I liked DECIBEL and GNOCCHI.
   ELABORATE is fine as ” in more detail ” .

5. An enjoyable solve from Hamilton, completed but with a few half-parsed only – notably those Teacow mentions. That’s a tricky bird @10d. Is it MIST or MISTLE (mizzle)? Is LET some some of ‘cover’?
   Otherwise, straightforward. I’ll add INFANCY and ELABORATE to Roz’s favourites though I also thought ‘talk’ was doing a double duty in 3d. And I liked the surface for 7d along with the intersection of GINGHAM NANKEEN.
   Thanks to Hamilton and Teacow.

6. The best I could do for the LET at 10d was ‘Cloud cover made for stillness’ = ‘Cloud cover allowed stillness to occur’ but I still don’t really get it. Also missed the FOR = ‘wanting’ at 23a and didn’t know WHETTED could mean ‘ground’. With SPECS to hold me up at the end, I found this quite a challenge.

   Thanks to Hamilton and Teacow

7. Most enjoyable puzzle which I managed to finish although some clues not adequately parsed. Congrats to blogger which can’t have been easy.

8. I originally had the same parsing for 23a as Teacow’s first, but I agree the second is better. I do believe, however, that “with” is part of the definition, i.e., feel for = commiserate with.
   Like the rest of you, I’m confused about the “let” in 10d.
   Otherwise, a very good puzzle and a wonderful blog. Thanks to both.

9. I read the LET in 10d the same as WordPlodder@6, as “allowed”, which I thought could just about be “made for”, though a bit of a stretch. Otherwise no quibbles and a decent puzzle, with SPECS an original clue and my LOI.

10. Thanks Hamilton for a pleasant crossword. I found myself guessing, then parsing, a number of clues; some I could not fully parse — MISTLE THRUSH, FEEL FOR, ELABORATE, and NANKEEN — thanks Teacow (and the blog) for the help. Favourites included GNOCCHI, INFANCY, and DO-GOODERS.

11. Very enjoyable. Thanks to Hamilton and all you bloggers for the clarifications.

12. Thanks, Hamilton and Teacow. Agree with everyone on 23a. Loved CONSEQUENCES and OMNIBUS.
    10d – In Merriam-Webster the first definition of “let” is “make”, as in “let me know.” “Made” would be past tense, so “he made me to know” would be “he let me know” -?? A guess but I can see it.

13. Fun rather than finesse.
    As to the latter, in both 1ac and 1dn the cryptic grammar isn’t right – ‘catch’ and ‘have’ are only plural to make the surface work.
    Also, in the hidden 9ac ‘are’ is a case of padding – could easily have been left out.
    In 24ac ‘art’ must be taken away from ‘creditable’ before the anagram’s applied.
    It is taken away, unfortunately, not in the right order but some setters and most solvers (certainly those today) seem to be fine with it.
    I am not a fan of the use of ’final’ as we have it here (in 17dn).
    And the definition in 22ac is really loose, isn’t it?
    But yes, mostly it was fun to solve.
    For many solvers that is what crosswords are all about – for me, however, it is not enough.
    Lack of finesse?
    Many thanks to Teacow & Hamilton

14. Sil@13, I’m afraid I have to disagree with you on a number of points:
    1ac: “CONS” is a plural subject; “catch” is exactly right.
    1dn: This is more complicated, but “COTERIE” is a collective noun. I.e., it has a singular form but means a group of people. In the US, collective nouns usually take a singular verb, but in the UK they generally take a plural verb. Thus “have” is correct also.
    In 24ac, the clue says “art is removed then transported”. To me that implies remove “art” first, then anagram the remainder. That seems correct to me.
    There is no 22ac; I assume you mean 22dn. And one could argue that referring to “SALEM” as the trials, instead of the site of the trials is a bit loose. But one could also argue that it is a case of metonymy: a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is substituted for another with which it is closely associated.

15. Since neither Teacow nor the commenters are happy with the parsing of 10d MISTLETOE THRUSH (jeff@USA makes a valiant effort), it would be nice if Hamilton were to let us know the correct parsing.

    Thanks Hamilton and Teacow for the fun.

16. Thanks Hamilton and Teacow

    24ac: I agree with Sil. Until you have done the “transporting”, you cannot really remove “art”, because the letters of “art” do not appear either consecutively or in the right order in “Creditable”. Only when you have rearranged the letters of “Creditable” do you have an intact “art” to remove.

17. EdK@USA (comment 14), going back to the clues 1ac/1dn, what you say about them clarifies exactly my point.
    Of course, CONS is plural and needs ‘catch’, just like ‘have’ (in 1dn) is all right within the surface.
    But that’s what I mean, they are what the surfaces need.
    However, ‘prisoners catch train’ is, in cryptic language, ‘A catch B’ where A and B should be taken as entities, building stones or whatever you wish to call them that need a singular form of the verb. In cryptic language, ‘A catch B’ doesn’t exist – it should be ‘A catches B’.
    Setters can get around by using eg ‘A will catch B’.
    Something similar happens in 1dn.
    That said, many setters do it like Hamilton here (a minority, though), and they are happy with it – just like many solvers and the odd editor.
    It is not a major issue for me, it doesn’t stand in the way of solving – and, perhaps, that is the most important thing.
    You say: In 24ac, the clue says “art is removed then transported”. To me that implies remove “art” first, then anagram the remainder. That seems correct to me.
    Totally agree until the last few words. In this clue ‘art’ should be removed as ‘rta’ before the anagram is taken.
    Many people (including me) think that in such a situation a second anagram indicator is needed. Only a strong opinion though, not law.
    Finally, if you disregard the constructional bit of 22n, you’re left with ‘at the trials’ to define SALEM.
    You might say that ‘at’ is a link word here but one, if that is the case, I don’t like it very much as it’s used here.
    Perhaps, you will conclude that I didn’t like this crossword but that is not the case.
    It was, as others said, rather fun to solve.

18. Sil @17: In 24a, if one reads “art” as “A, R and T” then surely the ordering of the letters is not relevant.

19. Indeed, Teacow, but I did actually say: “only a strong opinion, not law”.
    What you are writing @18 is what a lot of solvers use as a good reason for not having a second anagram indicator.
    As you probably understand, I am not one of those but I am also not saying that you are wrong.
    This issue has been discussed here many times before – perhaps just a matter of taste?

20. Teacow@18 re 24ac: If you read “art” as “A, R and T” then should you follow it by “is removed”?

21. Thanks Hamilton and Teacow
    An old one where I’d got stuck on 13a. Finally after picking it back up yesterday, SPECS just came to mind.
    This setter compiles good entertaining crosswords, but there is generally one or two quirky type clues that are included in them – the word play for MISTLE THRUSH seems to be one of them here. The parsing of NONPLUS was also beyond me, not thinking of the National Union of Students. Had to guess that BALE was a Welsh footballer and after looking him up, he is obviously a good one.
    Finished in that NW corner with COTERIE, ROTUNDA and after triple checking NONPLUS, finally was able to get SPECS as that last one in.

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