Guardian 28,546 / Imogen

81 comments on “Guardian 28,546 / Imogen”

1. 4d: Special and Royal Marines (elite force) about “to” – I think? Thanks all round.

2. 12a I think must be MACE around RAM

3. I share your queries, Eileen – I came here to find out how STORM parses, what the definition of DECIMAL is, and why the N on MALLORCA (or, alternatively, it isn’t ‘of holiday island. Otherwise, I quite liked this. MACRAME must be MACE around RAM – otherwise there are two Cs. Thanks, Eileen and Imogen.

4. Quite difficult puzzle. RHS was easier for me.

   Liked: FACET, MACRAME, MILDRED.

   New: EPILATE; TURN UP TRUMPS = ride to the rescue.

   Thanks, both.

   * I parsed 23ac the same way but was not sure about decimal = often split? Are split decimals a thing?
   I agree that the def is for holiday island -> MALLORCAN = Of, from, or relating to, Mallorca or its culture or people.

   4d I parsed STORM as S (special) + RM (royal marine) are around (about) TO

   I think there are a couple of typos in the blog –
   12ac is MACE around RAM
   16ac is anagram of SURE + KNIFE

5. Thanks all – I’ll correct the careless mistakes – stuff is so often CRAM!

6. Terri, that was my parsing as well. I came here for the parsing of 22dn, but neither do I quite get the definition part of 23ac. Thanks Imogen and Eileen.

7. a new idea about decimal = often split
   could it be ‘of ten split’? ie a division of ten?

8. Split Decimal..

   A decimal separator is a symbol used to separate the integer part from the fractional part of a number written in decimal form (e.g., “.” in 12.45)

9. Daniel Miller @8 – that’s the kind of thing I found from googling – but I didn’t understand it!

   I’m much more taken with michelle’s idea @7 – thanks, michelle.

10. I parsed STORM as did TerriBlislow @1 and managed to convince myself that ‘for’ could indicate the possessive and justify the ‘N’ on the end of MALLORCAN. For some reason, I found myself thinking of allocation of, say, EU funding with the sum allocated ‘for Mallorca’ being the Mallorcan portion.

    I wasn’t convinced by the equation of thorough and RADICAL and, despite a half-smile at SEVERN BRIDGE, thought it a rather loose definition. Certainly not one that could lead to the solution without a combination of cracking the wordplay plus crossers. Similar feeling about SIDEARM.

    I did like the two long ones: TURN UP TRUMPS (will he ever go away???) and the very neat KEEP FIT CLASS.

    Thanks Imogen and Eileen

11. “Often split” is “of ten”, which is a definition of “decimal”

12. Thanks, Hullian @11, for confirming michelle @7 – I’m sure you’re right.

13. Got there after a struggle with a number unparsed so thanks to Eileen and the discussion above. Thanks also to Imogen. I liked all the long outside clues even if the orange monster turned up again. I wondered about a Sesame Street theme but alas it wasn’t to be.

14. Now that I understand the parsing for DECIMAL (thanks Hullain @11 and Michelle @7) it has become my favourite clue.

    Thanks Imogen and Eileen.

15. I think MALLORCAN works without the ‘for’, if we take ‘holiday island’ as a kind of compound adjective. Holiday island fun, holiday island hotspots, holiday island attractions, holiday island atmosphere – in any of those the ‘holiday island’ could be replaced by ‘Mallorcan’.

    We quite often (or decimally? 😉 ) see single nouns acting as adjectives, so I think it’s only a minor (or Minorcan?) stretch to extend the idea to a two-noun combination.

    Thanks Imogen and Eileen.

16. A quick solve, but worth it just for MILDRED, my favorite clue of the week.
    She is now my kindred spirit for a lifetime.

17. Thank you, Eileen, and Michelle @7… that feels right.

    Essexboy’s excellent defence of MALLORCAN is well reasoned but I’m still not keen.

    I had SESAME STREET for ages but still don’t quite get it. Where’s the def? Am I missing something?

    Loved the succinct DEMON. Nice misdirect with the two apparent months.

    Enjoyable crossword on the whole, many thanks Imogen.

18. I struggled a bit until I twigged SESAME STREET, but like William @17 it seems to lack a definition. Lots to enjoy from Imogen as ever including for me REFUSENIK, SCULLER, MILDRED and TURN UP TRUMPS. Many thanks to I and Eileen.

19. Bit of a mixed bga for me: 12 ticks and 8 crosses – mainly for dodgy definitions but despite the quibbles I enjoyed it immensely

    Top marks for getting two ear-worms in one clue CORAL REEF

20. Hullian @11 and Michelle @7 have differing parses in fact, each of which are lovely. Doubly clever clue.

21. Thanks for puzzle imogen and the blog! I managed to parse STORM but like others I’m still wondering about the actual definition for SESAME STREET

22. I originally thought of floating point notation (FPN) for the split decimal, but I’m sure Michelle@7 is right as FPN is rather esoteric. Of ten is a perfect definition for DECIMAL. ‘Often split’ is rather clever. Well spotted!

    My problem with MALLORCAN was that CAN was in the clue.

    I did like SEVERN BRIDGE AND SESAME STREET.

    thanks Eileen and Imogen.

23. I found the right hand side easier than the left. Finally, after grinding through all the left hand clues I realised I still hadn’t solved 6d. I got close but not close enough so a DNF overall. But apart from this it was all enjoyable. I liked UNEQUAL and MILDRED. I made very heavy weather of MILDrED as I was fixating on it finishing with an A! Thanks Eileen (and the brains trust) for the parsing, especially of DECIMAL.

24. I agree that “of ten” must be the definition of decimal. Does that make the clue a “double wordplay”? I’m not sure I’ve seen that done before.

    A couple of definitions felt not quite right to me which made life trickier, e.g. “get up” = “surface”? I suppose both can mean appearance but it feels a bit of a stretch.

25. Ravenrider@24

    When a slug-a-bed finally gets up. We would say ‘look who’s finally surfaced!’

26. Loved this, probably because it was at the upper limit of my solving ability.

27. ravenrider @24 – I initially jibbed at surface = get up and then I thought of lie-a-beds who don’t surface until lunchtime.

28. Blah @25 – sorry, I missed yours. I would normally say ‘slug-a-bed’ but I thought it was local dialect. 😉

29. Thanks for the comment yesterday Roz. Confidence restored after yesterday’s disaster. I was also tickled by MILDRED, rodshaw @16. I also had CRAM for stuff so thanks for that.

    Ta Imogen and Eileen for the nice blog.

30. No worries Eileen,

    IIRC ‘slug-a-bed’ was coined by Shakespeare. I’m sure Spooner’s catflap or Sheffield hatter will be able to confirm if that’s correct or not. The bard is not one of my strengths.

31. Thanks Imogen and Eileen
    Unlike others, I found this difficult, especially the SW. I didn’t parse DECIMAL, and now like the OF TEN idea. Other favourites were VESPERS and SCULLER.
    I can’t see the definition for SESAME STREET either – is the clue incomplete?
    I raised an eyebrow at “thorough” = RADICAL too, PostMark, but, to my surprise, it’s there in Chambers.

32. Enjoyed this. No problem with the lack of definition in 1A for me, just a fun clue.

33. A nicely turned puzzle, although I too was convinced stuff should be CRAM and fussed fruitlessly over how MAE could possibly be a rod or a workforce. I would also normally expect someone to COME UP, rather than TURN UP, TRUMPS, but that could be a regional variation and in any case is a minor quibble that didn’t spoil my enjoyment. MILDRED made me laugh out loud. Thanks Imogen and Eileen.

34. Same problems as others with STORM, DECIMAL and MALLORCAN, and a smile for SESAME STREET despite the absence of definition.

35. Lucky Eileen to blog this one which scored high for entertainment with just enough difficulty to make it interesting
    A splendid unpretentious puzzle
    Thanks Imogen and Eileen

36. Very enjoyable – just the right level of difficulty (for me anyway!)

    Particularly liked SESAME STREET, REFUSINIK, TURN UP TRUMPS, SEVERN BRIDGE.

    Still don’t understand MALLORCAN though.

37. Thank your Eileen and others for the ones I couldn’t parse.
    I found this crossie a little pedestrian in parts, but unlike others , I did like SESAME STREET, because ‘The open road?’ appeals to me, and It was a cue to a little joke, which is how I read it (once I had the crossers in the first word). Fav DEMON.

    I have a quibble with FIT for ‘sexy’ in 10D. I suppose it’s what you think of as being sexy. ‘Fit’ could be quite scary to some.
    I overthought it and was trying to come up with KEEP F IT C (‘it’ in FC).

38. @Steve69. I quite like essexboy’s take on MALLORCAN @ 15.

39. “Of ten” as definition is convincing, but shouldn’t it be “split often” rather than “often split”? Definitions are customarily first or last (or both!) in a clue, and it’s rather unkind to hide them within the wordplay.

40. blah @ 30 – Yes, “Why, lamb, why lady, fie you slug-a-bed” is spoken by the Nurse to Juliet in R&J, a play that seems to have cropped up a lot recently in one way or another. My Shakespearean earworm of the day, however, was triggered by the clue for 1D. At the start of Act V, scene 1 of The Tempest, Ariel describes to Prospero the plight of the gentlemen from the shipwreck whom he has tormented and made captive:

    … but chiefly
    Him that you term’d, sir, ‘The good old lord Gonzalo;’
    His tears runs down his beard, like winter’s drops
    From eaves of reeds. Your charm so strongly works ’em
    That if you now beheld them, your affections
    Would become tender.

    When exactly Ariel had visited Warwickshire in January is not known, but who can understand what spirits get up to on vacation?

    (Incidentally, before anyone assumes that it is another of my many typos, ‘runs’ is textually authoritative although some editions, including the MIT online, change it to ‘run’.)

41. Slow-going but got there in the end after coffee. Liked VESPERS, SHEAVES, and the double dose of ‘sure’ & ‘fact’.
    rodshaw@16: I like MILDRED = kindred!
    Thanks Imogen & Eileen

42. Hi Spooner’s catflap @40 – as Blah predicted, you’ve once again 7dn!
    Many thanks.

43. Eileen @9

    Sorry I missed the OF-TEN.. lol moment then.

44. This suited me very nicely: a tightly-constructed puzzle, I thought, making use of a good range of conventional devices and creating some neat surfaces (4d STORM and 16a REFUSENIK). I didn’t work out the def “of.ten split”, but I now think it’s v. clever, though it might be considered iffy, since the clue contains no clear definition component.
    PostMark@10 re. TRUMP: no, never. He will be like Eli the priest.

45. paddymelon@37 FIT = sexy is common parlance round these parts. Pride comes before a fall is always apposite for my crossword solving development, as whenever I think I am getting the hang of it, I get stumped by something that seems obvious after the event.

46. I thought there were a few inelegant clues here. As well as those others have mentioned, the words “comes” in 19a, and “limits” in 25a are redundant, other than being necessary for the surface meaning. Favourites DECIMAL and DEMON (neither of which I had parsed before coming here).
    paddymelon@37: I think you’re not UK-based? “Fit” is common slang for “sexy” here, not necessarily with any connotation of sportiness. [I see Petert beat me to it.]
    Thanks eileen and Imogen.

47. Ah, thanks Petert @45. Just looked up FIT in British parlance.

48. Found this slightly more impenetrable than usual for Imogen. Took a long while to find my way in, with CORAL REEF the first breach. Didn’t get the SESAME part of 1ac for simply ages. Last two in were the devious MILDRED and then DEMON. Spent a lot of time scratching my head about how MALLORCAN worked exactly, too. Thought REFUSENIK an excellent clue, yes I did…

49. The cram/ram confusion in 12a got me wondering if there were other cases where you could remove the first letter of a word and keep the same meaning…. then I got to 6d and found that epilate is the same as depilate.

    Thanks to Eileen and Imogen

50. For DECIMAL, I originally thought, yes, in programming they are often split, declared victory and moved on. Coming here I see the alternative suggestion which I think is what was intended, although the definition is now mildly wordplayish. This is not the first time I’ve seen that happen – wonder if it is a trend.

51. Thanks Eileen and everyone for explanations and digressions, I am aligned with various of you in my likes and stumbling blocks, always good to know I am not the only one led astray in particular ways – thanks Imogen for the workout.
    [paddymelon@37etc, at the risk of offending your eardrums here is a cultural link that may be of interest:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEIRNj0EmH0 ]

52. Thanks for the blog, after going through the across and then the downs I thought this would be tricky but then each corner collapsed quickly. I think it is just one of those grids that gives a lot of useful letters.
    No need to add to various issues discussed , there were quite a few.
    Maybe EPILATE =PLUCK is allowed ? Most of the time I doubt it involves plucking.

53. Thanks Imogen and Eileen. Like others, I found this a mixed bag – some properly fiendish clues, others more at the Vulcan level. All enjoyable though, despite the odd quibble, but I won’t rake over what has already been discussed…

    Failed to parse DEMON, but now appreciate what a great clue it is. Also didn’t get the definition for DECIMAL, but am wholly convinced by michelle @7’s explanation. Very good!

    I liked SESAME STREET very much, and didn’t worry about the lack of definition. Also ticks for NOVELLO, REFUSENIK, KEEP-FIT CLASS.

54. Didn’t get “turn-ups.” I think we call them trouser cuffs in the US. I thought that in the UK they were just for the books. Didn’t think of demo=march either, so DEMON went unparsed.

    About that second hyphen — surely a slug-a-bed would be a person who slugs beds. A slug-abed, though, is a slug who is abed, an old but still workable word. (Same applies to a pet peeve of mine, sing-a-long. I’ve never sung a long in my life.)

    Thanks for a good puzzle, Imogen, and for the enlightenment, Eileen.

55. Martin Scribbler @33 – I carelessly wrote in COME UP TRUMPS at first, but quickly realised my mistake.

56. When I see Imogen’s name, it strikes fear into my heart (but not quite as much as for Enigmatist). I got there more-or-less in the end.

    I’m not sure why some are saying that there is no definition for 1A. As Eileen points out in the blog, the whole clue is a cryptic definition. A SESAME STREET is a road that is open (note the QM).

    Some very good constructions with MILDRED and DECIMAL two that I particularly liked.

    Thanks Imogen and Eileen.

57. 24a: In no way do I defend this construction, but, having had a grandmother from Maine, I took “senior moment initially” to be S-M, with the dialect IDEAR interposed. In my youth, I’d hear “idear” used from time to time, usually facetiously. It ought to be revived!

    I failed to parse 22d, DEMON, forgetting, as usual, what a march was. “What in the heck are the D-E MONTHS?” I kept asking myself.

    @7 michelle is surely correct about “often split.”

    Thank you, Imogen and Eileen.

58. That was hugely enjoyable and a fair challenge (although more for the parsing.)

    Thanks Michelle @7 for pointing out “of ten”

    I had no probs with 1a, thought it was an excellent clue. For those who object, I do wonder what they’d make of Araucaria or Bunthorne.

    Lots of fun clues but my favourite was KEEP FIT CLASS

    Thanks to Imogen and Eileen

59. Thanks Imogen for the puzzle and Eileen for the blog.

    I thought I was going to be hopelessly stuck after filling in some of the more straightforward anagrams etc, but I got there in the end thanks to helpful crossers. A lot of nice surfaces, and 1ac brought a smile from me once I got there.

60. I’m with Eileen @9 and thx to Michelle for her much clearer parsing of Decimal.
    Challenging surfaces for me, but a number of then made me smile. Favourite of the was Mildred.
    Thx to Imogen and to Eileen for her blog.

61. Like many others I found this a mixed bag with the same parsing questions but I got there in the end; overall I found this to be a solid crossword with ticks for MILDRED (beautifully simple or simply beautiful, either works), REFUSENIK (liked the surface), and EPILATE. Thanks Imogen and to Eileen for the blog and active discussion.

62. Thanks to Imogen and Eileen for the entertainment – I couldn’t parse STORM either and have never heard of the SRM (there seems to be a multiplicity of these “special” forces) but I suppose one can’t be omniscient – what a bore that would be (constantly saying “I know, I know”).

    Glad to see “proverbial” in use for FALL DUE – I too (cf Valentine@54) have pet peeves and that pride “cometh before destruction” is one of them (and I hesitate to add that I insist on “an haughty spirit etc” but that’s just me trying to be recondite (I shouldn’t do it – I don’t have a particularly long suit in it)).

    Since I’ve steered the subject around to it has anyone any insight into the use of an “an” before an “aitch”? Occasionally “an hotel” is heard or seen.

63. Alphalpha @62 – it’s not SRM, it’s S (special) + RM (Royal Marines), with OR inserted between them. Same consctruction as 26a – SEVER + RIDGE with NB inserted between them.

    Also 24a – SR + M with IDEA inserted – except in this case, IDEA is inserted into the SR rather than between the two parts. It’s nicely misleading because “senior moment” is a common phrase, but you’re to read the two parts separately for the wordplay. Likewise “special” and “elite force” are to be read separately, even though they appear to be joined in the surface.

64. *sorry TO inserted, not OR

65. I also got confused by taking senior moment, initially to be S M, and then being left with an R unaccounted for. I should have remembered one of my personal laws of cryptic solving, i.e. that words which appear to belong together usually do not, and should be forcibly pried apart.

    [Valentine@54: When my parents set off by train for their honeymoon in the 1940s, my dad was considerably embarrassed to discover that his TURN UPs were still full of confetti…]

66. As a complete novice at this sort of thing I found this one of the easiest yet to get the answers seemed like common sense, I may never understand this parsing thing whatever it is. I have been doing these two years and still have not a clue what most people are talking about.

67. SC @40: you make me feel that I got my EngLit degree by default. I now look out for your contribution each day

68. I started this after a 12-hour shift and got stuck, then after good a night’s sleep they fell into place. I don’t know why I’m posting, because I only have the same thoughts that everyone else is sharing. I suppose I must just want to join in. I thought it was a fine puzzle, with clear wordplay, and had no objections at all to ‘Mallorcan’. I needed 225 for Storm and the brilliant Often Split. The only blemish, for me, was the undefined Sesame Street. Quite gettable but not very satisfying. Thanks anyway to Imogen & Eileen.

69. widdersbel@63: Thanks for the painstaking explanation – I now see that that was what TerriBlislow@1 was saying. I notice in myself an unerring capacity to grasp the wrong end of the wrong stick – cryptics help to me to believe that it’s not always my fault, but today… pass the thick-bag Aled.

70. PigSlug @68: “I don’t know why I’m posting, because I only have the same thoughts that everyone else is sharing”. That’s never stopped the rest of us! 🙂

    [Alphalpha @62 – Lexico says: Is it ’ a historical document’ or ’ an historical document’? ‘ A hotel’ or ‘ an hotel’? There is still some divergence of opinion over which form of the indefinite article should be used before words that begin with h- and have an unstressed first syllable.

    Fowler’s (2008 edition) says: The standard modern approach is to use a (never an) together with an aspirated h […], but not to demur if others use an with minimal or nil aspiration given to the following h (an historic, an horrific, etc.).

    While I’m on a tangent and quoting Fowler’s, here’s a favourite:

    Split infinitive
    The English-speaking world may be divided into (1) those who neither know nor care what a split infinitive is; (2) those who do not know, but care very much; (3) those who know and condemn; (4) those who know and approve; and (5) those who know and distinguish. … Those who neither know nor care are the vast majority, and are a happy folk, to be envied by the minority classes. ]

71. 🙂

72. In 1d, is there not also a clever homophone for “here perhaps” meaning “hear perhaps” in order to get the common meaning of eavesdrop, in addition to the more obscure literal meaning that Catflap so expertly quoted Ariel using in @40?

73. Roz @52. Obviously I can’t speak for Eileen, but it looks like her problem with ‘pluck’ being used to clue EPILATE is that it is an unindicated definition by example. (Chambers gives ‘to remove (hair) by any method‘.)

    Martin Scribbler @33 (& widdersbel). I tend to agree that COME UP TRUMPS fits the definition better. Turning up trumps is just the final act of the dealer in a hand of whist. It simply indicates what the trumps are for that deal, and doesn’t imply anything more heroic. No doubt this version will be in Chambers, though.

    PigSlug @68. “Quite gettable but not very satisfying.” Oddly, I found SESAME STREET a very satisfying clue to solve, possibly *because* it lacks a definition and requires a real penny drop moment to solve. (And perhaps it also reminded me of Araucaria.)

    No one has answered David Wilkinson @66. “I may never understand this parsing thing whatever it is.” Parsing is the process of deconstructing the clue after solving. Sometimes the solution becomes obvious from the definition and/or crossers, but some (most?) solvers want to make sure they are on the right lines by working out the wordplay bit by bit. Many times I have written in an *obvious* answer without fully parsing the clue, only to find it was obviously wrong!

74. Sorry, but 1 across completely fails my test of – can l be sure l have the right answer. There may be other equally fanciful answers that would fit. The obvious lack of a definition makes it a lottery.

75. I have been doing ‘em after midnight this week and this one was a pleasant solve. THE of-ten reasoning to DECIMAL eluded me and the N in Mallorca still does.
    Thanks both though.
    (On to Friday now)

76. Sheffield hatter@73 yes I saw it in Chambers so could not really object . Pluck can mean to epilate although I would imagine most epilation is not by plucking.
    It is a bit like collider=accelerator from the other day.

77. A clever one. I am very new to all this.

78. sheffield hatter @73 – I’ve only just seen your comment.
    I think you spoke very well for me – thank you!

79. Thank you also to beaulieu@46 and Gazzh?@ I’ve learnt something about what it’s like to be fit and sexy in the UK.
    I don’t remember that when I lived there in the 70s. 🙂

80. For once washroom is not a euphemism for toilet!

81. Totally agree with with Paul at 74. If definitions start being optional we may as well all go home.

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