Guardian Saturday Puzzle 28,542 / Paul

54 comments on “Guardian Saturday Puzzle 28,542 / Paul”

1. To echo Eileen: never thought I’d live to see a Paul prize-cryptic that was as simple and quick to solve as any recent quiptic.
   Hopefully it’s a temporary lapse, and at least one essential difference was that the majority of clues were wittily crafted and fun to solve (eg BRAVEST, CARDIES, BLOTTO).
   PS: I dropped across a couple of old Paul puzzles from 2005 this week ( #23,450 & #23,459) – both were tough and a pleasure to solve – so thanks Paul, you reputation is intact, and I hope your trek to Tibet for charity was a great success.

2. Thanks both. I suppose if you can approve an application, it’s logical that you can also ‘disapprove’ it.

3. Thanks Eileen. I won’t be joining any chorus of disapproval, I agree with you, this was over too quickly and was not as challenging as I had expected when I saw Paul’s name on it. I don’t have any difficulty though with the ‘where’s which didn’t seem out of place to me. I have visited Tresco so that wasn’t obscure but bad = pants still eludes me. Does ‘disapprove always have to be followed by ‘of’?

4. ACD

   Thanks to Paul and Eileen. I had to use Google to verify TRESCO and had trouble parsing my LOI, FROTHING.

5. I don’t want to belabour the DISAPPROVE discussion, but: when these kinds of things occur, namely you think the setter has made an error but, like Eileen, are disappointed to find Chambers approves(!), don’t you wonder if
   a) The setter knew all along that his/her intended usage was “proper”
   b) The setter played fast and loose but was unwittingly rescued by the resource, or
   c) The setter searched through dictionaries or thesauri to find an approved word that fit the clue?

6. The ‘where’ in 26ac evoked something like ‘Going Steady Land’, as in e.g. ‘Pleasure Island’. And yes, a bit lacklustre overall. Let’s see what today’s is like. Thanks P and E.

7. As with Eileen, I think that this was one of my fastest-ever solves of a Paul puzzle, and I also set a lot of store by surfaces.

   Favourites: DAMSON, FROTHING (loi).

   New: TRESCO island.

   Thanks, both.

8. gratinfreo @ 6 – if you are a lover of literature I suspect you will relish today’s theme in the prize puzzle. I’m down to the last clue, and already wishing it would never end.

9. As a weekly rather than daily solver, it’s nice to have a simpler puzzle occasionally. Of which and where I approve. Many thanks, Paul

10. Thanks for the blog. I never time myself for the Guardian puzzle but this took well under five minutes.
    Nothing wrong with the clues as such and would be fine for a Monday but not a Saturday surely???. We have had three puzzles this week that would have been a fine Saturday crossword, surely someone in charge could make better decisions, it does not take much judgement.
    DAMSON was my favourite , I still say knickers for damn or drat but I suspect it is a bit out of date these days.

11. Managed to finish this with not too much use of aids so clearly easy for a prize – although I couldn’t decide on raisin or DAMSON – as I couldn’t parse either. [Should just have gone with DAMSON as I am making damson jam at the moment.]

    Enjoyed it – favourites were: BLOTTO, HOOVERED, ADVANCING, CARDIES

    Thanks Paul and Eileen

12. [Ta rodshaw @8, yep most enjoyable, and no pushover]

13. I think I enjoyed this but didn’t really remember much of it, probably as it was over very quickly. It certainly wasn’t anywhere near as difficult as a Saturday should be.

    I did like ‘nothing to go on’ even if the second def was a little weak.

    Thanks Paul and Eileen.

14. [ Yet another mistake in the paper today , fairly minor – 6,16across should be 6,13across ]

15. Oho just poured a coffee and opened today’s offering to find its Brendan’s YAY. First clue is an easy write in but gives me great hope for the rest 🙂

16. Thanks Paul and Eileen
    I don’t often comment on Saturday puzzles as I’ve usually forgotten all about it a week later, but this time the clue for COAT stuck with me as being one of the most feeble I’ve seen for some time. “Something furry” = CAT?

17. Yes, easy for a prize.
    Unlike the rest of you, I didn’t finish. Not because I couldn’t, but I rather ran out of time.
    I am pretty brain–dead at cryptic crosswords, so I have a rule that rather than spend hours trying to finish a crossword, and probably failing, when the next one comes along (in this case Everyman), I start on that. Rinse and repeat.
    Including the Telegraph which I do intermittently, I have probably finished no more than 5 crosswords this year.
    In the world of cryptic crossword solving, there is still a place for fools like me.

18. I never thought I would be the prickly poster on a Saturday morning but can I please encourage early posters NOT to reference today’s puzzle. Saturday is the only day I read the blog before rather than after doing the puzzle; it’s meant to be about last week. I really would rather find out for myself what awaits me this morning and how easy/difficult I’m going to find it. Many thanks.

19. Roz @ 10. I’m impressed. Even if someone had given me all the answers before I began it would still take me the best part of five minutes just to write them in.

20. Hear! Hear! PostMark @18

21. I endorse PostMark @18. I tend to read this site first thing on a Saturday. And once read, it cannot be unread. I like to come to today’s crossword without any hints. The exception being factual errors re the clues.

22. I’m not sure that this was really Paul – I can’t imagine him passing up the chance of a toilet reference in NOTHING TO GO ON 🙂

23. Well said PM. I remember someone getting their knickers in a twist when Roz hinted that a certain clue was the way in, without mentioning which one. Best to say nothing, I guess. As for this crossword, it was OK, but Eileen summed it up well. I suppose ABOUT FACE was pretty topical.

    Ta both

24. Ditto PostMark @18, Spooner’s catflap @20 and Tigger @21. Particularly the existence or absence of a theme of any kind.

25. You can approve something (“could you approve my expenses on the system please”) so I guess you can disapprove them.

    In principle this was a nice crossword, with a theme of clothing, and then different ways in which cryptic indicators for “X in the middle of y” can be done with words for clothes. But certainly would agree the surfaces were disappointing.

    Variable levels of difficulty seem ok to me for a Saturday. I am sure for many it’s the only puzzle they regularly tackle. Whether or not a puzzle is easy for a prize perhaps seems moot these days

26. There’s nothing so obscure about Tresco. If we British solvers are expected to be familiar with, or google, american placenames, which pop in far too frequently for my liking, then surely we can expect those in other countries to do the same. The Guardian is supposed to be a British newspaper, though it presents itself as american far too much. It’s the reason that I will never give them a penny of my money. I’m not saying anything here which I haven’t said before. I have also told the Guardian on many an occasion.

    And it seems to be getting a habit on this site that contributors comment on current puzzles before the blog appears. Today is a case in point. Someone has already told me that today’s puzzle has a literary theme. I haven’t looked at the puzzle yet, and it may well be that the theme is glaringly obvious – but be aware that you have spoilt the puzzle at least a little bit for myself and others.

    And when I was doing battle with the recent Maskerade, various people were commenting in the General thread on how to place the words round the grid. Again, you spoilt my pleasure. Thanks.

    And I still haven’t forgiven contributors for treating me with contempt a few weeks ago.

    I used to enjoy this site. Now I just hate the cliquish and false camaraderie.

    I feel much better now.

27. Tresco has a very famous garden.

28. Pretty straightforward, but I’m happy to have an easy one now and again and one of the things that I like about Paul is his ability to go up and down the gears in terms of difficulty.
    Interested in your thought that the guardian presents itself as American, Anna. How so?

29. Tresco was great in his day.
    So was Paul

30. I’m not bothered which day of the week the easier or harder crosswords appear on but I do expect more wit from Paul who doesn’t often disappoint me.
    Matthew @ 28. I can’t give examples but my overall impression over the years is that The Guardian has devoted more of the paper to American stories, even more so of late. Not enough to make me cancel my subscription (while still doing the crosswords!). I suppose that the growing reliance on international subscriptions makes them think that this is necessary.

31. Just finished the other puzzles in today’s paper. Saving the cryptic for my morning cuppa tomorrow.

32. Something furry=cat. Dearie, dearie me

33. me @32 sorry muffin, I hadn’t read the comments when I posted…I see you beat me to it

34. baechen @33
    No problem – I’m glad you agree!

35. muffin & baerchen

    That’s the sort of ‘definition’ that led to me coining the “That’ll do” description for some of Paul’s clues on the g thread 2-3 years ago.

    Sadly it comes to mind ever more frequently these days.

36. Thanks Simon, muffin and baerchen. That clue was certainly one of those that I had in mind, along with a number of surfaces.

    It wasn’t so much the ‘easiness’ of the puzzle that irritated – I often say of other setters’ well-crafted and carefully honed puzzles that they don’t have to be difficult to be enjoyable.

37. 11a “The great big D” is now “a mild expression of exasperation”?

    This non-UK solver has actually been to TRESCO, in a sailboat on its return trip to the US. I remember buying some fish from a local fisherman and inventing a recipe I called “mackerel Tresco” that included whatever we had on hand at the time that looked useful.

    I have the vague feeling that “approve” and “disapprove” without the “of” mean something like “officially accept or reject,” an action rather than a feeling.

    Thanks, Paul and Eileen.

38. Can confirm that TRESCO was difficult for non-UK me. I initially put in CORTES, an island off the coast of British Columbia that gave its name to a story by Nobelist Alice Munro. Eventually I got some crossers in and TRESCO was the only semi-pronounceable possibility.

    Thanks Paul and Eileen.

39. Apologies to all for my early reference to today’s puzzle. In my excitement I quite forgot myself.

    You were 100% right to point this out PM@11, also thank you for doing so so courteously.

40. 25ac A cat definitely is “something furry”. What’s the big deal? It’s a four-letter light, so a bit of vagueness is in order, surely? It seems to refer in the surface to a furry collar or similar.

    I agree with Eileen about the inappropriateness of where in both cases. In 26ac, it feels more like one should say ‘what’ long-term partners are going. In 16dn, it seems to me it would be better if a clause describing a procedure for building the answer followed the “where” rather than a straight charade.

    8dn Bodycheetah@22, You’re surely right that if he hadn’t been trying to get as many clothing references in as possible, Paul would have gone for something like “No evidence of a lack of toilet facilities”

    Valentine@37, the D hasn’t really been that big over here for, probably, centuries, I don’t think. Certainly nowhere near as big as it appears to be in the goldarn US of A. You are spot-on about approve and disapprove. I wonder why everyone else who mentioned it was so hesitant in their endorsement of Paul and Chambers?

41. Tony Collman @40
    There are more than a few other things that are furry. How about “a sucked spangle in your pocket”?

42. There’s almost a mini-theme of definition of animal by Homeric epithet – crawler, jumper, furry one. I can understand some of the objections but I enjoyed this. Thanks, both

43. me @41
    I realise that wouldn’t fit….

44. Tony Collman @40 – ‘What long-term partners are going…’ would be gobbledygook, because syntactically it would require that ‘going’ was a transitive verb taking a direct object (STEADY). STEADY functions an an adverb in relation to ‘going’, so an alternative formulation would need to be ‘How long-term partners are going …’ or, maybe better, ‘The way long-term partners are going …’

45. “Steady” can’t possibly be an answer to a question that starts “where”.

46. Spooner’s catflap @44 – thanks for that.

    ‘The way long-term partners are going …’ is such a small amendment and makes perfect sense of the clue. It illustrates perfectly the distinction between ‘carefully-honed’ and ‘that’ll do’ clues.

47. Anna @26 – mea culpa. I thought I was being careful not to give anything away in my comments on the Maskarade puzzle, but looking back, I can see I might have been a bit careless. I sincerely apologise.

    As for this puzzle, I have nothing to add but thanks to both Paul and Eileen.

48. Late getting back to this but apols for mentioning this week’s Saturday puzzle.

49. How about “the committee approve/disapprove/accept/reject the motion”?

50. I happily withdraw my reservations re ‘disapprove’.
    Valentine’s post @37 was helpful: I have the vague feeling that “approve” and “disapprove” without the “of” mean something like “officially accept or reject,” an action rather than a feeling.
    I missed the technical application and was seeing it only from the point of view of myself approving / disapproving of …

51. SC@44, you’re right, of course. I really came here this time to say that should be ‘how’, not ‘what’. Also ‘the way’, as you say. Unfortunately, I fear none of them really works in the surface to allow that anagram, do they?

    Muffin@43, it’s not in the dictionary, either. RAT fits, but doesn’t work with the O to make a garment, so it couldn’t be that. I don’t know anyone who sports a DOOG, either. Now then, nothing beginning with V; you’ll only upset someone …

52. Some pretty harsh comments on here, especially the one about Paul being past his best (read it yesterday and cannot be bothered to quote it).
    I reckon a lot of people only buy The Guardian on a Saturday and, therefore, the “Prize” crossword occasionally needs to be a bit more entry-level for Saturday-only crossword-newcomers to access. That’s certainly how I got into it.
    The setter could easily have turned that grid into something impenetrable for most; he either chose not to or was asked not to.
    I enjoyed it – even the furry thing – and am grateful to be able to access it for free. Thanks to the blogger too.

53. Ok it was a bit easy for a prize. No complaints here I like them easy now and again. Impressed by Roz and her < 5 mins. Unbelievable really.

54. Late thanks Eileen and interesting to read yours and other comments and clarifications.
    I enjoyed this one despite/because of its relative ease (at least once I realised that Terpsichorean didn’t mean “tortoise-like”!), perhaps more than others because I solved it late and thus wasn’t building myself up for a showdown on Paul Prize Saturday. Cat= “furry thing” made me smile – I am a cat lover but know plenty who aren’t and can easily see that phrase as how they might disparagingly refer to such a beast.
    And those complaining about surfaces clearly didn’t have a dog in the 90s Britpop fight or they would be flying the flag for 2D OASIS – thanks Paul!

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