Azed No. 2,569 Plain – Competition Puzzle

31 comments on “Azed No. 2,569 Plain – Competition Puzzle”

1. I did wonder about the bo/boo/booh. Thought maybe Azed had lost an ‘o’ somewhere.

   I guessed BAGASSE for21dn, although I couldn’t parse it, which messed up 23ac.

2. Thanks PeeDee. I spotted the possible mistake with BO, but missed the definite one with OMAHA. Some chewy wordplay indeed in DJEBEL.
   I think “t’red” is meant to reference being in the red.
   I of course knew RANA from that classic tale of batrachian bravery Across The Andes By Frog.
   Thanks as ever to Azed.

3. Thanks for the blog, I have the same ideas as you and Gonzo,
   Bo is only the sense of peek-a-bo(o) not the disapproval sense.
   OB-GYN not in my Chambers 93, I do know the word and not sure it is American? Although it may say that in C2014.
   SCROGGIN not in 93 but SCROG was – so easy to get.
   T’RED same as Gonzo and tying in with the overdraft idea.
   OMAHA I must admit I half thought it must be a state and check and it is not, and I could not make Okl(AHOMA) work by switching parts.
   Tiniest minor typo sorry – ORB backing for 33Ac.
   I thought RANA was brilliant and BULLY very neat.

4. Sorry I forgot. I do not like TICKLE=GROPE I know it works with the fish idea but do not think Chambers gives support in either direction.

5. I had a vague memory that I had seen OMAHA mistakenly called a state before, and searching this site I found that it was in 29a in Azed 2089 (links to puzzle and blog). I don’t remember solving this puzzle but am convinced that I did because I do remember writing the comments attributed to ‘Matthew’ on the blog.

   I also found that in the Slip for Azed 564 he apologised for describing OMAHA as a state, but that was before my time.

6. Another round of “I wonder if that is a word – oh yes it is”. Thanks Azed.
   Most of the things I noticed have been mentioned but I would like to add a bit to GROPE. I don’t think it works on two levels. You tickle a trout, which is a river fish, but a groper is a sea fish. In my youth, I seem to recall the odd female didn’t mind being tickled but she sure objected to being groped.
   Thanks for the blog Peedee as I needed help with some of the explanations.

7. A few iffy (or even whiffy) clues this go-round, 24 in particular. Not fun. Bosie I knew, but BOOKSIE was unfamiliar. OB-GYN is ubiquitous in the US. Still plugging away on the Playfair from however many weeks ago–about halfway, but finding the clues extra-obscure, leading me to suspect that I would hardly be able to complete it as a Plain, much less with all of the goofy encryption hoo-ha.

8. I did better this week. Although still DNF.

   I had ZHANG although I didn’t like it – it’s a common Chinese name so was missing art from the def, and I’d put Z on as back to front.

   I was also mising the R of BONGRE and the I of SUINT.

   I couldn’t parse RANA but knew of the frogs connection. I guessed BOOKSIE but couldn’t confirm or parse.

   Then somewhat idiotically was also missing 2 easier ones LORAL and SHAKY.

   Lastly I had no idea about 1D even after reading the instructions.

   Thanks PeeDee and Azed.

9. Thank you PeeDee for parsing BON GRE; I wouldn’t have unravelled that in a million years. Is there a term for a clue such as that for CREDIT LIMIT, in which an anagrind is almost unnecessary since the surface is made so lumpy by forcing in the fodder that it couldn’t be anything else? Thanks both.

10. Blah @7 RANA is a common Azed device called a compound anagram, you will get used to them with practice, “this” in the clue often gives it away. Practice makes perfect.
    Once a month there is an actual Prize crossword and we have to make up a clue to enter as in 1 down.
    They are often difficult clues because the definition or answer is obscure and we have no word play to help us.
    Azed tends to prefer &Lit and compound anagrams as entries.

11. Thanks Roz,

    It seems a little unfair to have an unchecked letter in 1D? I assume the asterisked definition is usually straightforward rather than cryptic?

    ‘This’ as a possible compound anagram indicator is a useful tip! Thanks!

    I may have to invest in a chambers if I carry on with these.

12. The asterisk is always a straight definition but often an obscure word.
    I try to finish Azed without Chambers but I always check everything at the end.
    Often I need Chambers during the solve to look up words or even search from a few letters.

13. We had BR_SH as a clue word the other year and Azed chose to use the one definition that could be shared by BRUSH and BRASH – see slip 991, which will show why I have reason to remember it!

    I also plead guilty to clueing OMAHA as a state. It just feels like it is…

14. Finished this quite quickly but it has a bit of a “friday afternoon job” feel to it, with the missing O in 1a and the OMAHA error. 11d is a truly awful clue, I think.

15. Phi @13 re BRASH and slip 991, that was a neat clue!

    Roz, I’m not sure Azed prefers &lits and composite anagrams as such – it’s more that when done really well, those are the clue types that are often the most satisfying and ingenious.
    He expands on that in slip 1286, coincidentally drawing attention to another clue of Phi’s. http://www.andlit.org.uk/azed/slip.php?comp_no=1286

16. Roz – thanks for spotting the typo in 33, fixed now. Ob-gyn is in the current Chambers as chiefly US.

    Brian-with-an-eye – a Friday afternoon job was my feeling exactly, but I try and be as respectful as I can in the blog.

    Blah – if you are going to continue with Azed you should definitely get a Chambers dictionary. The electronic version for phone or PC is good value. The paper version is expensive but you can get second-hand copies very cheaply on ebay. Be careful though; I have 8 copies of Chambers now and looking up obscure words or tracing modern words back to their first inclusion in the dictionary can become something of an addiction. Maybe I should see a councillor and get help.

    Azed has a very particular style that can take some getting used to. The clues are very formal and follow a strict set of rules. Azed does not publish a definitive list of his rules, but he does discuss them in his answer slips. Collections of these annotations are published on the Observer website and elsewhere.

17. I spent a while convincing myself that HANGS is ‘has been put up’ in 25ac, as to me that should be HUNG?

    The only thing that convinced was ‘ a picture is on show at the Tate’, so a picture hangs at the Tate. Since not convinced though.

18. Nick @17 – “has been put up” is in the present perfect tense (a closed action) but “hangs” is the present simple (an ongoing action). So technically I would agree that these are not exactly synonymous, but one would have to be very unforgiving to not allow this in a definition. But then Azed is very strict, so who knows?

19. The discussion of “Is Omaha a state pulled me up. I certainly thought so- suspect hat for my generation it was known as the bloodiest beach in Normandy 6th June 1944. The other American landing beach was Utah, certainly a state. Somewhere recently I read a complaint about the need now to know American geography better than our own when doing crosswords. Two-letter abbreviations in Chambers make their use attractive to setters. They certainly never assume knowledge of Indian or Chinese state names.
    Re the Clue word it was a surprise that it wasn’t a Tolkien invention.
    Any way thanks as always to Azed and to PeeDee for filling in some short cuts.

20. P.S. Forgot to say how pleasant it is to welcome newcomers. Amongst my souvenirs is the menu for Ximenes 750 lunch, held at the Cafe Royal by Piccadilly Circus!

21. 26a So an error in assuming Omaha is a state (even Homer nods), or a clever feint to provoke an Aha! moment? The partial anagram of Oklahoma is not very convincing.
    14a Anyone else spend an age trying to justify BOOTSIE as in B and Snudge? No? Just me then.
    As ever, a very enjoyable solve.

22. Thank you PeeDee @16, I did suspect that but it is nice to have it confirmed.
    I actually thought the puzzle was fine with a couple of fairly minor glitches that did not really affect the solve.

23. Thanks PeeDee, I’m going to have to purchase a copy or subscription now. I believe I’ve actually completed today’s, and would dearly love to verify a few answers! Off to ebay and amazon.

24. Xenopus@21: Yeah, I was trying for BOOTSIE as well.

25. Blah@23: If you have Windows, you can get the Chambers app in the app store. (Also on Android on a mobile phone. As I said a week or two back, the advantage of the app is it doesn’t fall to pieces after a year or two. (The app is equivalent to the 2014 edition including the words missed out of the first printing.)

26. After many years in IT (many years ago) I had become rather a luddite but have taken the plunge and purchased the chambers app, see you all in several months once I’ve finished looking up various obscurities. Thanks for the tip Dormouse, and for the warning PeeDee.

27. PeeDee@16 In the introduction to his book “A-Z of Crosswords” he does publish a set of 9 clue types and also a set of his maxims for clue setting.

28. Thanks for that hapdaniel. That would be a great place for Blah or anyone else to start looking.

29. I’m just out of hospital and it’s taken me a while to catch up. Cineraria said something very pertinent to me in the notes to 2568—because I too am losing my enthusiasm. It’s very sad because I go back to Ximenes. That means I’m getting old—not something I mind but I just can’t be bothered messing about looking for Cressida Dick, or Ireland’s rugby captain, or some TV star. Not only have I never heard of the TV star, I’ve never even heard of the programme! The fact that we are now all “Googlified”, as Azed puts it, is not to me an excuse. You can get Google to do just about the entire puzzle for you. But where’s the joy in that?
    My thoughts on compound anagrams, reverse compound anagrams and some of the “charades” that crop up more and more are well known. Azed gave us recently the superb SACHERTORTE (2559) but, for every one of those, there are a dozen dreary.
    Some of Azed’s attempts to introduce new ideas must be welcome to him and to many but are not always to me. FIDGE (2566) to me was barely a clue at all: take a sequence of letters, leave one out, jumble up the rest and there’s your answer. I’m certainly not old enough to remember Torquemada but that is definitely Torquemada-ish.
    There are at least a couple of clues this week which I would call “blunderbuss” clues. No one expects every clue to be superlative but BOSSYBOOTS and CREDIT LIMIT are unworthy. BREAD BIN isn’t much better. I too have doubts about tickle / grope. It’s the use of the word “this”. In any compound anagram, “this” plays a vital role. Here it’s meaningless: “Tickle? One doing grope will get fish” from which we must reclue “One doing grope” to “groper” so it’s a clue to a clue.
    No one has this week pointed out that BON GRÉ, on its own, is not valid. It does not mean “willingly”. The entry in Chambers is a single entry which just happens to have a comma: bon gré, mal gré. It’s an idiom which means “whether you like it or not”. Chambers translation of “willy-nilly” is strictly accurate but could be better because we now tend to use “willy-nilly” to mean haphazardly. You could faire something, in France, de bon gré, meaning willingly (and note the de), but I’m advised (by a Collins lexicographer) that there are many other words more likely to be used and you would sound like a foreigner or a yokel. The nearest I can think of in English is “easy come, easy go.” We all know what it means but few of us would split it up and, if we did, it doesn’t mean come or go easily.
    Now, in Azed’s defence: it’s nice to have the foreign languages he throws in. And, this week we have Aristophanes and Bosie—both ticks for me. Azed reminds me to reread The Scroggin Eaters, the title of a book about the history of bushwalking in the Australian state of Victoria (and I can tell you it is most certainly not a “packed” lunch!)

    Stefan

30. Hi Marmite Smuggler, sorry to hear that you have not been well. I hope we continue to hear for you on the blog now and again.

31. Marmite Smuggler @29, I had exactly that feeling about BON GRÉ but couldn’t quite express it, certainly not as clearly as you have. Thank you. Hope you are recovering well.

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