Guardian Cryptic 28,570 by Brendan

The puzzle may be found at https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/cryptic/28570.

A typically ingenious offering from Brendan, with all the across clues containing a cross, or some relative, and the down clues, down – except for 13A and 18D, where they appear in the answers, in addition to the two lights forming a prominent cross. Given these constraints,it is remarkable that the clues seldom feel forced to fit. Bravo.

ACROSS
5 WING IT
Improvise as supplier of a cross, exactly what’s needed (4,2)
A charade of WING (‘supplier of a cross’, soccer) plus IT (‘exactly what’s needed’).
6 OSCARS
Varied across goals achieved by top players (6)
An anagram (‘varied’) of ‘across’; The ‘top players’ would be film stars.
9 BRIDGE
Go across for game (6)
Double definition.
10 OVERSTEP
Walk across, having finished backing favourites (8)
A charade of OVER (‘finished’) plus STEP, a reversal (‘backing’) of PETS (‘favourites’).
11 VERB
Kind of word that either part of down clue can be, never across (4)
Ingenious cryptic definition: ‘down’ and ‘clue’ can be verbs, but ‘across’ not.
12 SENATORIAL
Like some politics across the pond in programme about alliance (10)
An envelope (‘about’) of NATO (‘alliance’) in SERIAL (‘programme’).
13 REACH ACROSS
Stretch over and right every thing this makes with 8 (5,6)
A charade of R (‘right’) plus EACH (‘every thing’) plus A CROSS (‘this makes with 8’ – 8D and 13A do indeed cross, and form a cross).
18 MANOEUVRES
Moves across battlefield making me a nervous wreck (10)
An anagram (‘wreck’) of ‘me a nervous’.
21 MULE
Cross made by removing ends of protective jewel (4)
[a]MULE[t] (‘protective jewel’) minus first and last letters (‘removing ends’).
22 ACROSTIC
Puzzle producing what sounds like a bad-tempered sign of approval (8)
‘Sounds like’ A CROSS TICK (‘a bad-tempered sign of approval’).
23 BARSAC
60% of bars across France produced this wine (6)
The first six of the ten letters (‘60%’) of ‘BARS ACcross’, for the Bordeaux, sharing the Sauternes appellation for sweet white wines.
24 RATHER
More precisely, repeatedly runs across two articles (6)
An envelope (‘across’) of A plus THE (‘two articles’) in R R (‘repeatedly runs’)
25 ZEBRAS
Wild animals that may be camouflaged when crossing? (6)
I suppose that on a road a Zebra Crossing may be said to be camouflaged -painted to resemble – the animal, but the choice of the word ‘camouflaged’ seems to me stretched.
DOWN
1 INEDIBLE
Lie in bed, poorly — it‘s impossible to get down (8)
An anagram (‘poorly’) of ‘lie in bed’.
2 EIDERS
End of chase, heading off people on horses — we get down from them (6)
A charade of E (‘end of chasE‘) plus [r]IDERS (‘people on horses’) minus the first letter (‘heading off’).
3 ASSENTER
Person who agrees with fool put down (8)
A charade of ASS (‘fool’) plus ENTER (‘put down’ in a written record).
4 CAUSER
About employer who makes things go down in America? (6)
A charade of CA (circa, ‘about’) plus USER (’employer’). I am a little puzzled by ‘down in America’ (apart from the thematic ‘down’). Is it Brendan’s point that causer rather than cause is a Americanism? I have not been able to dig up any support for this.
5 WORSEN
Perturbed re snow, go downhill (6)
An anagram (‘perturbed’) of ‘re snow’.
7 SEESAW
Observe, in present and past, move up and down (6)
A charade of SEE (‘observe in present’ [tense]) plus SAW (‘past’).
8 DOWNPATRICK
Drink with Irish patron in Ulster town (11)
A charade of DOWN (‘drink’) plus PATRICK (‘Irish patron’ Saint). A small town in County down; the cathedral is said to be the burial place of St Patrick.
14 COUNTIES
Down amongst them is one of the shortest company releases (8)
A charade of CO (‘company’) plus UNTIES (‘releases’). Off the top of my head, Cork and Mayo, both also Irish, are the only other counties I can think of with a four-letter full name.
15 SOMBRERO
Looking down on king, old hat (8)
A charade of SOMBRE (‘looking down’) plus R (Rex, ‘king’) plus O (‘old’).
16 DANCER
One taking steps to provide first part of down clue’s requirement, we hear (6)
A charade of D (‘firstgt part of Down’) plus ANCER, sounding like (‘we hear’) ANSWER (‘clue’s requirement’).
17 ALWAYS
Breaking law, say, that describes how things fall down (6)
An anagram (‘breaking’) of ‘law say’. I suppose the definition refers to Murphy’s law.
19 ON OATH
Oddly deficient, down to last husband? Bound to be honest (2,4)
Even numbered letters (‘oddly deficient’) of ‘dOwN tO lAsT‘ plus H (‘husband’).
20 SUBSET
Warship went down, part of larger group (6)
A charade of SUB (marine, ‘warship’) plus SET (‘went down’ as the sun).

 picture of the completed grid

93 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,570 by Brendan”

  1. I liked this a lot, and like PeterO was also impressed with the theming of all the clues.

    Wrt. 4d, I interpreted the clue to intend “go down”=happen, something that is the result of a CAUSER.

    Not terribly convinced by Down being one of the shortest COUNTIES – wouldn’t you say “one of the shortest county names” in practice?

  2. Quite so, Dr, W. It is “go down” = happen that is the alleged Americanism, not “causer”.

  3. I think that in 25a, “that may be camouflaged” is part of the definition, i.e. it is the animal that is camouflaged rather than the road feature!

  4. Thanks Brendan for another tour de force. It’s pretty amazing to include the words “across” and “down” in all the clues or answers and still have most of the surfaces read so smoothly. Favourites included OSCARS, SOMBRERO, and SUBSET. I failed at BARSAC, unknown to me. Thanks PeterO for the blog.

  5. Nice puzzle. Favourites: SEESAW, MULE, DANCER, REACH ACROSS.

    New for me: DOWNPATRICK, a small town of 11,000 people (but well-clued to make it guessable, then check online that it exists); BARSAC wine.

    I did not parse: 5ac (OMG, I never would have understood this soccer reference in a million years and still do jot get it, not do I even want to LOL), 11ac, 12ac.

    17d – I was thinking of a reference to gravity, and that things always fall down, not up?

    Thanks, both.

  6. Did anyone else try to bung in ‘bung on’ in 5A? Bun, supplier of a cross, as in hot cross buns, but then couldn’t parse the ‘gon’. 🙁

  7. As others have said, an impressive ‘down and across’ achievement. I venture that there will not be many commenters who say they missed the theme here. Cryptor @3 – I agree – it is the zebras who are camouflaged when they are on the zebra crossing, making it a cryptic definition in my book (and my LOI – I really enjoyed the d’oh moment). VERB was sensational for the PDM, and I also liked MULE, RATHER, EIDERS, ASSENTER, SEESAW. For 8d, I played with LONDONDERRY (London gin + ?) and PORTERDOWN (not enough letters) before the actual answer seeped into my brain. Thanks PeterO and Brendan.

  8. paddymelon@7
    haha, I see I have two typos in my post@6 – I should proofread more carefully in future!
    * types very slowly now*
    The soccer thingy threw me off completely (as always).

  9. Goodness me, AlanC is going to be in his element today with yet more NI references. And what a remarkable achievement by Brendan. Top half went in very smoothly and then the bottom half proved trickier.

    I’m with michelle @5 on the gravity reference in 17d and my take on ZEBRAS is that they are camouflaged when crossing a zebra crossing: now you see them, now you don’t.

    VERB absolutely delightful and COTD by a mile for me.

    Michelle, again, even though you’d ‘rather jot know,’ a cross in football is a long pass of the ball through the air rather than along the ground and generally delivered into the centre of the field from players at either edge. Generally towards the goal area, enabling others to score. Those who deliver crosses are often those assigned to play on the edges of the field – the wings or wingers. Hope that helps.

    Thanks Brendan and PeterO

  10. Loved this, though I also needed the blog to explain WING. Duh! I tried PORTPATRICK first which fits the drink and the saint but not the location. I also saw ZEBRA as a rather tongue in cheek CAD. Overall: just so clever! Many thanks Brendan and PeterO for a great start to my day.

  11. Thanks to the unmistakeable Brendan (byline not needed – this couldn’t have been anyone else) and PeterO – I definitely needed help parsing a couple today.

    I got the impression Brendan has been raiding old children’s joke books for inspiration – not least for the ZEBRA clue, and for 2d, which reminded me of the classic:
    How do you get down off an elephant?

  12. Found this tough but worth it.

    Had to relearn the spelling of MANOEUVRES. I think the cousins leave one of the vowels out, don’t they?

    Like Michelle, would not have parsed WING IT in a month of Sundays.

    Many thanks both.

  13. PM @10 – I read 25a the same as you, with the whole clue as a cryptic definition. And that’s the joke I had in mind too.

  14. Thinking of Murphy’s Law evoked at 17d, I read in a techie journal recently of a novel solution to the energy crisis which exploits 2 natural laws:-

    The first is that you can drop a cat from any height and it will always land feet first; and the second is that the dropped slice of buttered toast will always land butter side down.

    The author reasoned, therefore, that if one strapped correctly orientated slices of buttered toast to cats and dropped them, they would necessarily hover some distance from the ground…

  15. This was very enjoyable. I bunged in 4dn as LOI so thanks PeterO and others for explaining. Thanks Brendan.

  16. Very enjoyable and clever as always from Brendan. I agree with Dr. WhatsOn @1 that the “in America” in 4d refers to the Americanism “go down” meaning “happen”, as in Bob Dylan’s “Hurricane”:

    Meanwhile, far away in another part of town
    Rubin Carter and a couple of friends are drivin’ around
    Number one contender for the middleweight crown
    Had no idea what kinda shit was about to go down

    Many thanks Brendan and PeterO.

  17. Classic Brendan. Absolutely brilliant!

    I read a little more into the 8D 13A link in that St Patrick’s trail ends in Downpatrick and not surprisingly if you get to the end you will have reached a cross.

    Thanks Brendan and Peter

  18. Postmark
    thanks for explaining the cross in football

    [Lord Jim
    I love that Dylan song
    there was a very good podcast about Rubin Carter and that song on BBC in 2019. It is called The Hurricane Tapes ]

  19. Michelle@5 has already expressed my thoughts.
    Thanks to Brendan for an ingenious puzzle and to PeterO for parsing 5a.

  20. Was vaguely aware of the theme while filling, but only realised the brilliance of the puzzle at PeterO’s prompting. Applause all round, and thanks both.

  21. Thanks Brendan and PeterO
    I didn’t parse VERB. I’m surprised that I haven’t seen the “me a nervous” anagram before; it’s rather good.

  22. PM @10: I smiled and thought surely not when DOWNPATRICK leapt off the screen as foi. (My wife’s family hale from there and the prison museum is also worth a visit). I agree with your assessment of VERB and loving the daddy jokes as well. A wonderful puzzle today by one of my favourite setters.

    Ta Brendan & PeterO

  23. [Self @18 and paddymelon @14: with hindsight, better written as ‘mahouts of laughter’ – with apologies to the Scots in the community]

  24. Nice crossword, though I hadn’t parsed some, notably VERB and WING IT. Also I didn’t get the “shortest” reference for COUNTIES, and agree with Dr.W@1 that the name, not the county, is short. (The not-Irish Fife can be added to PeterO’s list.)
    Favourites the central crossing ones, for the clever construction as much as the clues themseves, and VERB.
    Thanks PeterO and Brendan.

  25. Brendan’s ingenuity is always a pleasure. What skill to compile a puzzle like this without laboured constructions or recourse to recondite vocabulary, and produce something entertaining without being very difficult to solve.

    I agree with other posters that VERB and *(me a nervous) are particularly noteworthy. [William @13: Indeed, the US spelling is ‘maneuvre’. Curiously, the Italians omit the other letters: ‘manovra’, from what is clearly a borrowing from French].

    Thanks to Brendan and PeterO (and all you paronomasiacs for brightening the day)

  26. Such a clever puzzle, with the bonus of not being horrendously difficult.
    Favourite 11A VERB.
    KENT has 4 letters.

  27. What copmus said. Many thanks to Brendan for one of the most entertaining puzzles of recent years.

    Thanks to PeterO and others for parsing some of the clues that escaped me. In particular ZEBRAS, which I just couldn’t see, although the answer was plain. I agree with others that ‘go down’=happen is the Americanism that Brendan must have had in mind.

    [Downpatrick has what must be one of the most picturesque racecourses in the world.]

  28. pserve_p2: I don’t enjoy solving crosswords just for the intellectual challenge, but RATHER for the delight in combining this with marvelling at the surface readings.

  29. [hatter @36: In particular ZEBRAS, which I just couldn’t see, although the answer was plain. And then I just couldn’t see them, and then they were plain. And then I just couldn’t see them… Exactly! 😉 ]

  30. For whatever reason I found myself totally on Brendan’s wavelength today, apart from not knowing – but it simply had to be from the cluing – loi CAUSER. At times this puzzle felt connected with yesterday’s Crucible offering with the clue for 14d. And of course with 8d. And continuing my monologue from yesterday, I miserably failed my driving test in DOWNPATRICK 30 years ago. Great fun all round, however…

  31. I start looking at some Downs when the Acrosses give me a first letter to work with. Brilliant setting providing an entertaining solve.

    I particularly liked REACH ACROSS and CO-UNTIES. The camouflaged ZEBRAS produced a smile. Epsom Downs is quite picturesque also with the views over London.

    Thanks Brendan and PeterO.

  32. I thought 25ac zebra was far too obvious and didn’t write it in until the end … and even then was trying to think of something else that might fit ….

  33. I’ll copy Eileen in saying ‘what Copmus said’

    Thanks very much to Brendan for an unexpected Thursday treat and to PeterO for the blog

  34. Brilliant puzzle and great explanations. Thanks. I’m a bit slow today and only picked up all the downs and acrosses very late on.

    A postscript: Kent in England and Fife in Scotland are four letter counties.

  35. Quite enjoyed this, even though I only spotted the ‘down’ half of the theme. Agree with our blogger that the clue for 25A is stretched somewhat. ZEBRAS are camouflaged; there’s no ‘may be’ about it. And on the road, they certainly are not. ‘Wild animals camouflaged but not when crossing’ seems a better fit in my humble opinion. Otherwise all good clean fun. Thanks to blogger and setter as usual.

  36. When you get to Downpatrick you reach one of the earliest High Crosses in Ireland. And the two clues cross! Genius ?

  37. A veritable wishing well of pdms. Don’t know when I’ve enjoyed the tussle as much. TILTs were BARSAC (although a vague tinkling made me take the plunge) and “paronomasiac” (thanks Gervase).

    Loud cheers for Brendan and PeterO

  38. Enjoyed this but didn’t get the full scope of the theme before coming here!

    One minor quibble in 11A: why specifically “never across” instead of “not across?”

    I ask as I’m reminded by something humorous I saw online recently that any word can be a verb if you don’t care enough: “I had it as a down clue but changed my mind and decided to across it instead.” This makes complete sense, and I’m using “across” as a verb…

    But that’s minor. Thank you Brendan and PeterO.

  39. Thanks PeterO and gang for making full sense of CAUSER and ZEBRAS which had puzzled me, and Blah@13+Normandiefille@49 for fleshing out the extra level that Brendan often smuggles in somewhere. I found this tougher than many, not helped by my spelling as per William@13 – Alphalpha@50 lots of places in that part of France end in -AC or even -SAC, maybe that was bumbling around in your subconscious, it’s the only reason I got it – but as usual plenty of smiles when the lightbulbs pinged, thanks Brendan.

  40. An absolute gem of a puzzle, on which I need say so little after reading everyone’s comments.

    I would just respond to Dr. WhatsOn’s (@1) and beaulieu’s (@28) comments by saying that punctuation in clues is optional and is allowed to be misleading. In the clue to COUNTIES I imagined Down to be written as ‘Down’, thereby showing it is the name of that county and not the county itself that is referred to.

    Thanks to Brendan and PeterO.

  41. (me @55)
    I was going to say ‘Brendan rocks!’, but copmus bagged that, so I used the word ‘gem’ instead. (Gem/rock – geddit?)

  42. Really enjoyed this, and would echo previous comments on Brendan’s genius.
    Without paying attention to the number of letters, I started to write CROSSWORD in at 22a….. doh!
    Thanks to Brendan and PeterO.

  43. After the zebras and mules and eiders, I thought we might be in for a simple animal theme – but this was more complex and satisfying!

    Another who thought – without much deep thinking – that the zebras were the camouflaged items, not the crossings. And the saying “what goes up, must (always) come down” was my justification for 17d.

    Although I like to learn new words via crosswords, like Michelle@5 I am less enthusiastic about “soccer” terminology (or “football” for those of us living in countries where the national sport does not involve kevlar body armour). If you live in such a country, perhaps you cannot avoid knowing some of the terminology. Nevertheless, PostMark@10, thanks for the explanation but even if I had needed it, I think I can live without it…

    I note that elephants have joined the menagerie – thanks to widdersbel@12 et seq. Am I allowed to ask “why do elephants have four feet?”, or is this a family-friendly blog?

    Thanks to Brendan for an intellectual puzzle (as usual), to PeterO for an intellectual blog, and to my fellow contributors for an intellectual discussion (until we got onto elephant jokes, maybe 🙂 )

  44. Wonderful, ingenious puzzle.
    Not tricky (I finished so it can’t have been).
    Previous mention to Bob Dylan’s ‘Hurricane’, marvellous lyrics for the whole 8 minutes.
    I don’t think the Roal Navy would be too pleased with SUB = WARSHIP, as they are very particular about submarines being ‘boats’.
    Peter, thanks for explaining 11a, one moan…’soccer????”, horrible word for the beautiful game.
    Thanks Brendan for a great puzzle and Peter for a super blog.

    Soccer??

  45. Was just popping by to make a similar comment about subs, HoofItYouDonkey @ 60! I think technically they are warships although, as you say, everyone knows they’re boats really. Although in the case of the infamous K-Class, only just that…

    Another thing the RN are very definite about is that their ships don’t carry cannon – they’re always guns.

  46. Thanks both,
    Do I get a pedant point for pointing out that Barsac is an appellation in its own right? But wines grown there may use the ‘Sauternes’ appellation instead if they wish.

  47. Hoofit@60: I too raised an eyebrow at your boat/ship question but on checking found, “Modern warships are generally divided into seven main categories, which are: aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers, frigates, corvettes, submarines and amphibious assault ships”.

    Eyebrow down, therefore.

  48. AlanB@55 yes of course, but let me explain my reasoning for the quibblet, and it is indeed the smallest of quibblets. Subatomic in size, maybe.
    Speaking of which, when you approach a clue, every word is in a quantum superposition of states – you don’t initially know if it is there for its letters or its meaning. In this clue, when you interpret “others” the waveform collapses and the meaning is counties, not names. So unfortunately, Schrodinger’s zebra died. BTW under this theory, &lits break the laws of physics, but we always knew they were special.

  49. Dr. Whatson @64
    You are right. In fact it’s ‘amongst them’ that refers unambiguously to counties and not to their names. My general point about punctuation still holds (I hope): we very often see a comma in just the right place for a good surface reading but in absolutely the wrong place for breaking down the wordplay elements.

  50. Brilliant stuff! Thanks, S & B.

    [If it’s elephant joke time here’s a quick one:

    How do you get an elephant out of the theatre?

    You can’t. It’s in his blood.]

  51. Thanks for the blog, I rarely like a theme in the clues puzzle but that is just my personal taste.
    SENATORIAL and SOMBRERO were very neat clues and DANCER was very misleading.

  52. [HoofItYouDonkey@60, I enjoy your posts as they have seemed to follow a very similar trajectory to mine (and probably others), congratulations on solving this fine puzzle, I agree that it could have been harder if Brendan had been a little crueller with a couple of clues (eg using now and then instead of present and past in SEESAW would have been less clear regarding the verb tense use) but I certainly don’t think it was easy!
    Roz@67 thanks for the Andromeda tip last night but was cloudy here, will try again this evening and hopefully at the weekend when I will be in a darker sky area.]

  53. Enjoyed that. Like many I found 25 ZEBRAS a little strange – obvious without really making too much sense. Many thanks to Brendan and PeterO. And to the contributors who explained the significance of ‘going down’ in 4d CAUSER.

  54. I absolutely loved this puzzle and thought 13a was Inspired. The themes were pursued effortlessly and with great invention. Too many favourites to mention but a special shout out for SEESAW and VERB.
    Thanks to Brendan and PeterO

  55. [ Gazzh @ 68, at least another week until the moon starts to spoil things. Darker sky area obviously better and at least twenty minutes for night vision. Binoculars do make a difference but I like naked eye. The light left Andromeda over two and a half million years ago, no humans. Australopithecus was around ]

  56. I think things ALWAYS fall down in that they never fall up.

    Arguably, though, the clue should then be “how often things fall down”.

  57. Roz @71 I have had to have a lie down after reading your post about the length of time light takes to come from the Andromeda, and I complain if I have to wait 10 minutes for the bus.

  58. [ HYD @73 you need to see it . Perfect viewing conditions tonight if you have clear skies. It is the furthest object anyone can see with the naked eye. ]

  59. Whilst wingers play on the wing in association football they aren’t called wings: that’s rugby terminology. Slight wrinkle didn’t spoil my enjoyment of a typically great puzzle from Brendan.

  60. Really enjoyed this one.

    As someone who’s still learning to do a Cryptic I still managed to get almost all of them so I’m quite chuffed with that.

    Didn’t manage to get SENATORIAL (though figured out NATO, so maybe I should have kept trying), OVERSTEP (thought about OVER…), ASSENTER, OSCARS (tried the anagram but not hard enough, apparently), or CAUSER.

    Got WING IT but didn’t fully understand the reason behind it being WING. Surprised so few people seem to be a fan of the ‘soccer’/football clue, though, considering how many other sports are essential to cluing.

  61. Well done Sam@76, today’s while not as difficult as some of Brendan’s work was no pushover by any means(as Gazzh@68 notes). Ditto to HYD@60

    [Roz, whereabouts in the night sky should we be looking? I know and can locate a few of the constellations but I have no idea where andromeda is.]

  62. [Sam @76. People in the UK who like football find the term “soccer” a bit odd. In this country it smacks of public school (i.e. private school=elitist) slang, and it’s also the American term, used to distinguish from their version of rugby league that they call football. It’s complicated. I read recently about a game in the 1860s between Sheffield FC and a London team, played under Sheffield rules which involved 18 a side, catching the ball and a certain amount of allowable violence. Sounds almost like Aussie Rules.]

  63. [Blah it is the Andromeda galaxy itself in the Andromeda constellation . I star hop from Cassiopeia , this looks like a W , on its side at the moment , opposite the plough via Polaris ( the North star ) .
    Take the right hand V of the W , it points directly to the galaxy. I am sure someone could provide a link to a star diagram.
    Unfortunately my IT skills are too advanced for the current version of the internet ]

  64. [Brilliant , thanks Roz, I know how to locate the plough (which I call the saucepan), Polaris and Cassiopeia so I have a good idea of where to look now. Let’s hope the clouds clear. ]

  65. It’s all been said above. I was slightly put out by 11 in that I guessed the way it worked on the first pass through the clues, so, without crossers, I confidently bunged in NOUN. Grrr!
    I enjoyed ASSENTER the most because of the surface, although it’s seems a RATHER harsh punishment to me!
    Thanks, Brendan and PeterO

  66. Always makes our day when we see Brendan’s name at the top, and today even more so than usual. Didn’t come to 15 SQ for the parsing but just to see whether everyone enjoyed it as much as we did….staggered though by the cleverness of ‘reach a cross in Downpatrick’ that just makes it sublime!

  67. [southofnonorth @84: interesting view – do you have a source for it? Dylan and Levy co-wrote several songs in the mid-seventies, including “Hurricane”. They collaborated on the lyrics and Dylan wrote the music, but I haven’t seen anything that suggests that Levy wrote all, or even most, of the words on any of them. Although I did see an interview with Levy in which he said that one thing that he contributed was internal rhymes in unexpected places, which maybe suggests that some of the most distinctive lines in “Hurricane” were his:

    We want to put his ass in stir
    We want to pin this triple mur-
    der on him
    He ain’t no Gentleman Jim
    … ]

  68. I’ve been doing them just after midnight publication. Last night this went in pretty smoothly though I didn’t know the wine and didn’t parse a couple.
    Did not spot any theme!
    Thanks both.

  69. Fantastic puzzle, matched by the blog & comments. I must have a blinkered view of each clue in isolation because I didn’t even notice the down clue repitition until I came here. Thanks Brendon & everyone.

  70. [HIYD @60. Of course it should be soccer. Football means real footy – i.e. Australian Rules – the first version of football to be codified, in 1859. sh @78 – nothing posh about “soccer” – it is stuck up Poms who try to claim “football” for it.]

  71. TassieTim@89 purely from a linguistic/anatomical point of view I’ve always found it amusing that many of the global variants of football such as American, Gaelic and Australian rules all allow (perhaps even depend on?) what would in so called ‘soccer’ be an illegal handball. I believe I’ve read somewhere that Australian rules football was copied from an aboriginal game called mamgrook though I’ve no idea if this is true or not?

  72. [Blah @90 – certainly that is a story you hear. Tom Wills, who was the driving force behind the codification of the game, was brought up in a country area and had lots of interaction with local Aborigines (including, according to a recent report, being involved in a punitive action against some). He may, or may not, have been influenced by Marn Grook – there is dispute about that. It is quitre possible, though, that early versions of Gaelic football were also influential. As this was prior to the codifications of Gaelic (1887), soccer (1863) or rugby (1871), any version of football played at the time anywhere was played to a loosely understood collation of local rules.]

  73. I think (being my pedantic self) that PeterO’s parsing of 13A needs a slight tweak:
    A charade of R (‘right’) plus EACH (‘every’) plus A CROSS (‘thing this makes with 8’ – 8D and 13A do indeed cross, and form a cross).

  74. 8 down could have been Carlingford. Referring to Gerald Ford the US president with Irish antecedents and the purported beer.

Comments are closed.