Guardian 28,583 / Picaroon

94 comments on “Guardian 28,583 / Picaroon”

1. This was a tough solve and certainly suitable for a Friday. Lots of ticks inc THE ENTERTAINER (Dear, dear Larry), DANTE A, PIECEMEAL, PSHAW, IONIC, ALLITERATION, TAMERLANE & GENDARME. ORIBI and TOPOI were new but gettable but no clue about the parsing of RATIO. TROUGH was unfortunately all too familiar but raised a smile. I thought the setter in PLACEMENT was ME but couldn’t see how CENT = building until the pdm. A marvellous challenge to the intellect indeed.

   Ta Picaroon & Eileen

2. That was a little tough but got there in the end. Picaroon is so good at using misdirection and less familiar word definitions that it takes a while for solutions to emerge. Too many good ones to single out here. Thanks Eileen for the blog.

3. This was difficult. I needed lots of electronic assistance to complete!
   Not sure that iron is a heavy metal by the usual definition.

4. I was going to protest re: 11a that iron isn’t a heavy metal, but apparently it is so regarded.
   A density of more than 5 g/cm3 is sometimes quoted as a commonly used criterion and solid iron’s is nearly 8.

5. 17 AC: Yes. Digital bits-one and zero.

   16 D: Took ME and got to placement. Took me a while to parse it right!

   23 D: Didn’t think of Rolls Royce as I was content to think of Rolls as Roll +Roll 🙂
   RR must be the intended hint. Thanks.

6. “…a couple of less familiar words, meticulously clued, so gettable…”: I fitted ‘man’ into O and I to get OMANI for 1a – which seemed to deliver a bit of a broad judgement on the average inhabitant of that state. So surely it had to be OKAPI with ‘kap’ possibly meaning man, or tease, or rope…

   That aside, I agree with Eileen on the quality of the puzzle, as we generally get from Picaroon. There are several spellings for the Eastern warlord – I’m more familiar with Tamburlaine – and I struggle with the correct spelling of Dante’s surname so the crossers were vital. I loved GENDARME, SUBPOENA, TROUGH, FORECAST and PARR. But several worthies compete today for my favourite: PSHAW was lol, ICONIC was a nod back to the recent Bond puzzle and nicely done, ALLITERATION probably pinches pole position.

   Thanks Picaroon and Eileen

7. Too many words I didn’t know and had to look up – ORIBI, TOPOI, WOTAN, OSAGE, but I suppose my ignorance as Oscar Wilde once said, I think, is like a delicate exotic flower whose bloom is touched and then it is gone. Or something like that. Some splendid but challenging clues this morning, particularly the Divine Comedy man and THE ENTERTAINER.

8. Crossbar if you’re around… this was an interesting test for my newfound “all the across clues first” technique which, to my great disappointment yielded zero on first pass. Moving on to the downs, though, I found that the acrosses came more readily, the earth having been previously tilled, so to speak.

   What a delightful puzzle with ticks everywhere. My surprising favourite, though was the innocent little PARR for its lovely surface.

   Still a little unsure about the imported part of GENDARME. Simply “foreign”?

   Many thanks for the blog and a great end to the week.

9. A-L L L-iteration! Lovely one!

10. Thanks Picaroon and Eileen
    TOPOI and OSAGE were unknown to me, but gettable. ORIBI, on the other hand, I had come across before – probably in a crossword!
    A good start, with ALLITERATION and DANTE ALIGHIERI jumping out at me. PARR last one in. I don’t think I’ve seen that spelling of TAMERLANE before, but the clue made it obvious.
    Favourites PIECEMEAL and OVERSLEPT.
    I’m not convinced by “imported” in 25a – why are gendarmes imported to French territories (they wouldn’t be gendarmes elsewhere)?
    Predictably, I didn’t like the “in” in 26a.

11. [We crossed, William.]

12. 25 A: Looks like Picaroon meant foreign (not imported in the routine sense).

13. I was an OKIDI for 1ac 🙁

    Eileen, I saw the definition for BEFELL as “happened by chance to” – which leaves ring = BELL as nouns (‘give me a ring/bell’)

    Another thumbs up for DANTE, thanks Picaroon and Eileen.

14. Quite right, essexboy @13 – I’ll amend the blog.

15. Befall can be transitive as well as intransitive. Right?

    So both ways of parsing seem to fit. No?

16. Probably showing my ignorance here but how do you know that Dante never read Homer?

    Thanks for the blog – crossword was way above my skill level!

17. Not convinced about “inspired” as an envelope indicator, but otherwise a tough and enjoyable puzzle. Thanks to Picaroon and Eileen.

18. Thanks Picaroon and Eileen. This was excellent – great fun and a proper challenge. I assume 3d was one left over from the Bond puzzle that he couldn’t fit in – glad he used it, it’s far too good to waste.

    PM @6 – I did initially think he was being a bit harsh on Omanis!

    William @8 – I had the same gripe about ‘imported’. I would go so far as to say it’s unfair.

19. @various: I read “gendarme” as an imported synonym for “copper” = “policeman”. Quite often used by the less savoury characters in golden-age detective fiction.

20. 17A is just RAT (desert) with IO (bits) to the east [to the right, in an across clue] I think.

21. Mathew @16

    Experts say that Dante did not read Homer (he had any access).

    Given this backdrop, 24 A is an enjoyable clue. Thanks, P & E!

22. Everything AlanC@1 said. Except I’m frustrated I didn’t see The Entertainer so a DNF. Plus My cod was ALLItERation.

    Thanks picaroon and Eileen.

23. Tank @ 20

    Hasn’t Eileen parsed it the same way?

24. Many thanks, Eileen, for your customarily wonderful blog. Just thought I’d pop in to wish everyone well and respond to a few quibbles.

    There was a time when I didn’t like “definition IN wordplay” either, but it was pointed out to me that “in” used this way means “consisting of” (as Chambers puts it), as in “a symphony in four movements”. I don’t know of any crossword editor who isn’t happy with it, and there are some sticklers out there!

    As for “imported”, blaise is right that it simply implies a foreign word “imported” into English. It’s just variation from the very common “French / European”.

    Inspire = breathe in / inhale, so is similar to eating / drinking in implying containment.

25. A slow start with this, but I picked up speed. ORIBI was vaguely familiar but not TOPOI – I could see the construction but I played around with ‘tu’ and ‘te’ until ALLITERATION (lovely clue) gave the final letter. As a chemist, IONIC was a write-in once I had the final C!

    A lot of good clues, as Eileen says – THE ENTERTAINER, PIECEMEAL and SUBPOENA were particularly enjoyable for me.

    LOI DANTE A – not so much a PDM as a SKM (self kicking moment). E quindi uscimmo a riveder le stelle (‘and thence we emerged to see the stars again’ – last line of ‘Inferno’).

    Thanks to the Pirate and Eileen.

26. I was interrupted in my post by a long phone call, so I missed all of the earlier comments. I don’t normally think of iron as a heavy metal either, but there is no single definition (and to an astronomer the ‘metallicity’ of a star is the proportion of all elements heavier than H and He – metals and non-metals included).

    Thanks for dropping by, Picaroon. I’m perfectly at ease with ‘in’ as a copula.

27. Took me ages to get going on this but I am glad I persevered even if it took me a long time to finish it (52 mins).

    Favourites: TAMERLANE, ALLITERATION, OVERTONE, IONIC, OVERSLEPT, PARR, GENDARME (loi).

    New for me: ORIBI, TOPOI, LIMOUSIN cattle.

    I did not parse 17ac and do not understand the explanation of “Digital bits – one and zero” but no problem.

    Thanks, both.

28. Picaroon @24: Good of you to drop in and thanks for confirming Blaise’s suspicion re imported, makes sense now.

    Lovely puzzle, many thanks.

29. Some lovely clues (PLACEMENT was my favourite) but unfamiliar with ‘guy’ as ‘rib’, and whilst the meaning is clear enough from context, I’ve never come across ‘out of spirits’ before.

    Adding lots of DNK (1A/15A/18A/20D, 24A in terms of the 2nd name and I knew Limousin as a region but not the cattle) meant this was a rather frustrating DNF for me.

    A reflection of my ignorance and not the quality of the crossword of course!

30. A splendid Friday workout of the cryptic grey matter

    Many thanks to Picaroon and Eileen

31. I was pondering how this use of “bits” could be exploited. How about “place mixture of telephone network bits” giving position from anagram of PSTN (public switched telephone network) and 1100?

32. BRILLIANT

33. I really hate having to google. How else could anyone be sure about ORIBI or TOPOI? Surely this clever setter could make these two clues fairer? The rest is so good, but I end up being irritated rather than admiring.

34. Thanks to Picaroon and Eileen. ORIBI was new to me – one of those crossword moments of ” can this really be a word”. Also didn’t know LIMOUSIN = cattle breed. Was not troubled by the imported cop. Fav clue was 24ac and even better now I know Dante did not read Honer, even better.

35. I didn’t know ORIBI, TOPOI or the nature of the bond in IONIC (I’m no chemist and thought the reference might be architectural). Like PostMark I tried OKAPI and OMANI, but eventually resorted to the wordfinder.
    Apart from all those nasty little 5s, some nice clues here: I loved the Dante one.
    TROUGH is just crying out for a Yorkshire clue.

36. Kurukveera – sorry, just seen your post @15. I agree that as far as the definition is concerned, BEFELL could be either ‘happened by chance’ or ‘happened by chance to’. But the problem with the former is that either it leaves us with a surplus ‘to’ in the clue (which would be inelegant for Picaroon) or we have to take ‘to ring’ as a verb, which then means ‘to bell’ has to be a verb with the same meaning. I thought at first that ‘to bell’ could only mean ‘to attach a bell to’. I now find it can mean ‘to phone’, but as far as I know it’s rare and/or slangy.

37. essexboy @36

    give me a bell = give me a ring

    Not rare or slangy at all!

38. An afterthought: whilst OVERSLEPT has earned a couple of mentions as a favourite, there’s been no comment upon it. The Guardian being what it is, and bearing in mind some of the emotive spats we’ve witnessed here over the last year or so, I thought the surface was amusing and the definition element sublime.

    On the ‘heavy metal’ debate, does the phrase have to mean one of those elements classified as such. In everyday terminology, iron is one of the heavier metals we encounter. I’m no chemist but suspect lead is the only heavier one in normal use.

    michelle @27: in computing terminology, a bit is the smallest unit of storage and stores just a 0 or a 1 (or an O and and I in crossword land)

39. Echo Eileen and copmus @32.

40. Steve69 @37 – I agree, but in that case both ring and bell are nouns (as I suggested @13) which means the ‘to’ has to belong to the definition, not the wordplay (as Eileen agreed @14).

41. essexboy@36

    While posting my comment, I was thinking about the purpose of ‘to’. Thought that it could be taken as a link(inelegant? oh! yea. We have some surplus words in the puzzles every now and then-some elegant and some not quite elegant. When I get used to the inelegant links, they start looking elegant to me :)).

    PS: I checked if ‘to bell’ meant ‘to ring’. I didn’t find that slangy meaning you are talking about. Thanks for your link.

42. Thanks for the blog , I did enjoy this and many fine clues , lots of praise already so a few quibbles.
    Is OUT OF SPIRITS actually a saying ? I have never heard it before.
    Does BEFELL mean occurred RANDOMLY ?

43. Thanks for the parsing of 3d and 16d. Glad I wasn’t the only one trying to fit ME into that solution!

44. PostMark @38: These days most of us are more likely to encounter gold than lead! Three are sundry definitions of ‘heavy metal’, one of which even includes titanium

45. PM@38

    Thanks for adding to my comment on digital bits.
    I agree with you on heavy metal. Need not go strictly by what the scientists say.
    When ‘detail’ can mean ‘remove the tail of’ or ‘Ascot is a racy town’, iron is heavy enough
    for the purpose of these puzzles.

46. Thought my brain’d gone to mush lately from binge-streaming escapism, but pleased to see that others found it chewy . [Interrupted by long phonecall… will read ‘thoughts’]…

47. MrPostMark @ 38 you actually mean DENSITY not heaviness. Iron actually has a fairly low density for a metal, hence its usefulness . Many are much denser, Lead of course, plus mercury, gold , tungsten ,iridium , cadmium etc. I believe there is an arbitrary limit of 5000kg/m ( cubed ) , above which they are “heavy metals ” but this is far too low really. It does let the setter off the hook .

48. Thanks Picaroon and Eileen.

    Picaroon is at the top of my list of favourite setters, but negatives today (in an otherwise entertaining opus) for the obscure ORIBI, TOPOI and OSAGE (still, “live and learn” is the motto so get on with it).

    PSHAW reminded me of the story of GBS outlining to literary associates his plans for a magazine to be entitled “Shaw”. As I recall it was Oscar Wilde who asked “Yes, but how would you spell it?” And all that reminds me of this. (Unfortunately the video is blocked for copyright reasons.)

49. essexboy @40 Ah, sorry – I hadn’t seen your post @13, apologies.

50. Very good. Same favourites as many (Dante, L’s L L), and same dnk’s (TOPOI, ORIBI, OSAGE).
    For anyone who doesn’t know, in computing, “bit” is a contraction of “BInary digiT”, binary refering to the fact it can have one of only two values, the aforementioned 0 or 1.
    Thanks Picaroon and Eileen.

51. That was tough going, but got there in the end. And enjoyed it. Good to have a challenge.
    Thanks to Picaroon for the wit and misdirections and to Eileen, particularly for explaining the ‘bits’ of RATIO. I’ve obviously been retired from IT for too many years.

    [William @8 I can’t remember exactly how many acrosses I had at first, but definitely not many. After the downs and a second pass my grid was divided diagonally, with nothing in the top left, and completely filled in in the bottom right. Aesthetically pleasing, but not hugely successful]

52. I found this very tough but got there in the end.

    I didn’t have any trouble with IONIC, but I do have trouble with Old Testament books, although there’s always Google (or other Web searchers). I liked quite a few: FORECAST, TROUGH, GENDARME, IONIC, OVERSLEPT and ALLITERATION (I spent far too long in trying to make anagrams there).

    Thanks Picaroon and Eileen.

53. I don’t mind a few TILTs if they’re gettable from the wordplay although it was a toss-up between OSAGE and OMAGI. Personally I find clues like TRIMESTER more unfair as they rely on GK / proper nouns with no wordplay to work with

    I usually start by attempting a sequential solve but go 1a, 1d etc to avoid the downs feeling like a write-in though not much chance of that today 🙂

    Roz I think I’ll be “down” at Negroni time tonight as I know the cupboard is OUT OF SPIRITS

54. Roz @42 – “does BEFELL mean occurred RANDOMLY?” I think we may be entering higher philosophical realms there. The etymology of be- + fall puts me in a randomy kind of mood. If something befalls you, it falls on/around you. There you are, happily strolling along life’s highway, when overhead the Pigeon of Fate releases its Droppings of Destiny.

    Then again, does anything ever really happen ‘by chance’? Or does quantum physics mean we don’t live in a deterministic universe after all? I’ll leave that one to you. 😉

55. My experience of this crossword follows PostMark’s in every respect.

56. Blaise @19/Picaroon @24 – my reason for griping about ‘imported’ was that it’s not a term that we have adopted in English (unlike, eg ‘chez’), but come to think of it, Blaise, you’re absolutely right about it being used in detective fiction, so I withdraw my gripe! Thanks again, Picaroon – even with the gripe I enjoyed this far too much to be wholehearted in my complaint.

57. Roz@42: I have used OUT OF SPIRITS to describe someone seeming a bit down in the dumps.

58. A Goldilocks puzzle for me, although I see that wasn’t the universal opinion. On reflection, I was probably just in a good mood because I was able to get Dante’s last name right without resort to the anagram fodder. Great clue.

    Regarding the heavy metal discussion, wouldn’t the clue work just as well by dropping the “heavy” entirely, since for the surface bare “metal” is also a term for the music genre? Maybe not as common, though.

59. I suspect this may be a bit of crosswordese, but I fail to see how “desert” = “rat” in RATIO. Could “goat” be clued as “mountain”? Or am I looking at this from the wrong angle?

    A tough puzzle for me, with a somewhat less than clean solution.

60. … and I have immediately spotted the angle I should have been using!

61. Thank you AlanC @57 , I would say OUT OF SORTS but these sayings are sometimes regional. Recently on EVERYMAN blog we had HOE A HARD ROW, some including me had never heard of it , to others it was very familiar.
    MrEssexboy @54 I just take BEFALL as meaning to occur , without the connotations of by accident. Chambers and Collins seem to agree with me.
    Let me assure you that you really do not wish me to discuss randomness on this blog.

62. Thanks Picaroon, that hit the sweet spot between write-in and impenetrable. I needed assistance with TOPOI, BEFELL (heavy metal threw me), and GENDARME (never thought of “high” as an anagram indicator but in retrospect it’s very similar to drunk). Favourites were many and included ORIBI, PIECEMEAL, SUBPOENA, FORECAST, and my clue of the week OVERSLEPT with its very witty surface. Thanks Eileen as always.

63. I’m in agreement with Roz @61 about BEFELL. “Occurred”, yes, by chance, not necessarily, though it does imply that the event didn’t take place at a precisely predefined time. This archaic word reminds me of Thomas Hood’s ‘Faithless Sally Brown’:

    His death, which happen’d in his berth
    At forty-odd befell
    They went and told the sexton
    And the sexton toll’d the bell

    And I also agree with Roz @47 about heavy metals. Kurukveera @45 said ‘need not go strictly by what the scientists say’. The problem here is that the scientists don’t agree! By some scientific definitions Picaroon is quite justified in so terming Fe, though I would prefer a denser cutoff.

64. Roz @47: always a pleasure to be name checked by you – though not necessarily in the context of density! 😉

65. Very tough but very enjoyable. Yes, PM, I too thought first of OMANI, and was horrified!
    I really needed the blog today, so thank you Eileen. Too many good clues to mention, but my fave had to be the SOLVER IN FRANCE of course – even though I’d never heard of TOPOI.
    Many thanks to Picaroon.

66. Roz @42 & essexboy @54. The thing about BEFELL is that it describes something happening but doesn’t assign a cause, which is random enough for me. For example, “happily strolling along life’s highway, when overhead the Pigeon of Fate releases its Droppings of Destiny” assigns a cause, whereas “a strange fate befell essexboy while happily strolling along life’s highway” doesn’t. The latter hints at randomness, whereas the former allows a certain amount of free will to the pigeon.

67. Trish @ 65. I though the Solver would be ME not YOU so entered MOI instead of TOI until corrected by Trimester. Great puzzle – thanks Eileen and Picaroon

68. gervase@25 ‘e le stelle’ are the last three words of all three parts of the Divina Commedia.

69. Lovely Friday fare beautifully served up by the pirate who has overtaken Paul to become my second favourite G setter!

    I wondered at out of spirits too, never having heard it before, but its in the Chambers app, and AlanC knows of it so fair enough.

    Thanks Picaroon and Eileen.

70. [Blah @69: Picaroon has become my 2nd favourite G setter as well.]

71. [I trust that Arachne is still both your firsts, even though she hasn’t been seen for some time!]

72. [ I’m afraid not Muffin my favourite G setter is Brendan ]

73. [sh @66: Your pigeons are clearly agents of malignity, whereas mine are ciphers for randomicity.]

    [Blah/Tony/muffin: I’m beginning to feel a bit sorry for Picaroon – “l’éternel second” – like the much-loved Raymond Poulidor (or “Pou-Pou”) who always made the podium but famously never won the Tour de France 😉 ]

74. [ Gervase@63, 10000kg/m cubed is surely the most natural cut off , most common metals below this, lead is above and most people would refer to lead and anything denser as a “heavy metal ” . ]
    [ MrPostMark @64 – do imagine imagine for one moment that I have forgotten about the whistles ]

    Sheffield hatter @66 – I like your examples, I am still trying to think of the most apt word for when something occurs randomly.

75. [EB@73, my first thought on reading your post about Poulidor was “He probably should have doped more!” Quite ironic it turns out having followed your link.]

76. Dave@67 I always have to stop and think a bit whether the setter is me or you and the same for the solver. I know I’m me but Picaroon seems to think I’m you.
    Roz – random occurrences – life?

77. Perfect Friday fodder, quite a few tough nuts but good to be given a stretch.
    I was very relieved to learn ORIBI is an antelope and that TOPOI is more than one topos.
    Loved IONIC and OVERSLEPT – thanks Picaroon & Eileen.

78. [essexboy @73 and blah @75
    I watched “The Armstrong Lie” earlier this week. It seems that at the time a lot of the competition was about who could drug best and least detectably.]

79. [Roz @74. Chambers uses the definition for a heavy metal as one “with a high specific gravity, usually above 5.” I’m not sure what most people would reply if you asked them about the subject; I expect Iron maiden would come up more often than molybdenum. 🙂 ]

    [essexboy @73. You’re lucky you’ve not met any Yorkshire pigeons: malignity incarnate. It sounds like yours are pussy cats by comparison. ]

80. [As a retired Chemistry teacher, I wouldn’t regard iron as a heavy metal. I’m not going to object to it, but I don’t see why “heavy” was needed (as someone said earlier).]

81. Iron Maiden are most definitely Heavy Metal…isn’t this where I’m supposed to get my hat on now?

82. [Blah/muffin/essexboy: Brendan’s at the top of my G list but if Arachne resurfaces she would be at the top. By the way I haven’t seen Puck recently — he’s up there as well.]

83. [Tony @82
    I can’t disagree with your list.]

84. Thanks for the dissection of this very clever crossword, which I really enjoyed, needed work, but very fair. . However, two clues not fully parsed were RATIO and FORECAST. You were clever to work the first one out.

85. Much too late to really comment but I thought this had perhaps two too many ‘rare’ words to be a classic. I am so late to this that I have not had time to read all the previous posts in detail, but does Philistine get a mention as favourite G setter? He is mine, although were Arachne to return it would be touch and go.
    Very Many thanks Picaroon and Eileen!

86. trishincharente@76: It may be the Saint-Chinian talking but that made me chuckle. Santé.

87. Hi John Martinborough @84 – I don’t recognise your name so a warm welcome if this is your first post (and my apologies if it isn’t).

    “However, two clues not fully parsed …” – I’m not sure whether you mean by yourself or the blog.
    RATIO has been discussed quite a lot in the comments above. I haven’t seen any queries about FORECAST but I’ll try to explain it further.
    I’m not a bridge player but I learned long ago, through crosswords, that the players are identified as North, South, East and West – and, more often, by the initials N, S, E and W.
    We meet for=pro – and vice versa – almost every week in crosswords and also c or ca (short for Latin circa – about).
    My apologies if I’ve misunderstood your comment: please ask if the parsing still isn’t clear.

    Hi Alphalpha @ 86 – and Chris
    Me too – I’d missed that. 😉

88. I have decided to be pleased rather than offended that Picaroon uses the familiar ‘toi’ with me.

89. Hi Petert @88

    And so you should be! Typo ‘too’ understood: I’ve amended it on the blog. 😉

90. Thanks Eileen as I never managed to unravel the end of FORECAST and failed on ORIBI but in the fine company of essexboy so am not distraught, especially as I got the other (to me) obscurities under exam conditions. But best of all my 7 year old put me on track for LOI BEFELL by saying ” bell because you ring it” after I had fixated on PExxAL. Having enjoyed the failure I got even more out of the blog contributions including that of the man himself, thanks Picaroon.

91. Hi Gazzh @90

    Brilliant – keep your 7-year-old on side!

92. Tough, but Friday tough and way better than Tuesday. Can’t say I solved it all, but did get DANTE, PARR, WOTAN, PIECEMEAL and many other wonderful clues myself. My idea of a hard but very fair crossword.
    Initially I thought 2D was a homophone of In ‘er Nest and was annoyed that it wasn’t flagged, so thanks for putting that to bed.

    Chapeau Picaroon. Hats off to the wonderful Eileen too.

93. Well done Eileen and Picaroon. Too hard for me though I got it nearly all in, many were unparsed. And a few new words. I have never seen or heard “guy” = “rib” except in a crossword and I forgot that too.

94. Petert@88 there is a story (possibly apocryphal) that a colleague once asked Mitterand if they could ‘tutoyer’ (use the informal tu/toi). Mitterand rather stiffly replied “Si vous voulez”

Comments are closed.