It’s five months since I blogged a Philistine puzzle, so I was very pleased to see his name on this one.
I thought this was Philistine in slightly less tricky mode, apart from a couple of places (I still need help at 3dn – I’ve puzzled over it for ages and can’t hold up the blog any longer) all resolved now – many thanks! but there were lots of elegant, witty clues, with lovely surfaces, with top favourites being 5, 9, 10, 14ac and 7 and 19dn – and the superb 12ac.
Many thanks to Philistine for a most enjoyable puzzle.
Definitions are underlined in the clues.
Across
1 Part of France‘s established church (8)
PROVENCE
PROVEN (established) + CE (Church of England)
5 Rereading Proust produces a state of mental inertia (6)
STUPOR
An anagram (rereading) of PROUST
9 Cashier lost about five records (8)
ARCHIVES
An anagram (lost) of CASHIER round V (five)
10 These are black and white underwear items on non-binary third person (6)
ZEBRAS
ZE (a gender-neutral pronoun {with variations zir, zem, and zeir} that can be used to refer to people who are non-binary + BRAS (underwear)
12 This country is back — after having an illness — that’s just for starters (5)
HAIKU
A reversal of UK (this country) after the initial letters (just for starters) of Having An Illness
The clue itself is a HAIKU, a Japanese poem with seventeen syllables, written in three lines with a 5,7,5 syllable pattern -indicated by the breaks in the clue in the online version, while in my paper the clue is set out thus:
This country is back
after having an illness
that’s just for starters – a perfect &lit
13 Try to be seen in reflected light for practice (9)
REHEARSAL
HEAR (try) in a reversal (reflected) of LASER (light)
14 Rogue nation, if kept under threat (2,10)
AT KNIFEPOINT
An anagram (rogue) of NATION IF KEPT
18 Matador does this extremely elegant manoeuvre to avoid disaster (5,1,6)
DODGE A BULLET
DODGE A BULL (matador does this) + E[legan]T
21 Note Europe’s backing Philistine’s approval of Matilda? (9)
PSEUDONYM
PS (postscript – note) + EU (Europe) + a reversal (backing) of MY NOD (Philistine’s approval) – Matilda is the pseudonym of a Guardian setter (definition by example, hence the question mark), rumoured here to be Mrs Philistine
23 Join university before half-term (5)
UNITE
UNI (University) before TE[rm]
24 Spain and Portugal start to indict secret police chief (6)
IBERIA
I[ndict] + (Lavrentiy) BERIA (secret police chief under Stalin) – I didn’t know that
25 Jazz fan appearing in different music show (8)
INDICATE
CAT (jazz fan) in INDIE (different music)
26 One reason to visit the National Gallery would be to write music! (6)
NOTATE
If there were NO TATE (gallery), one might go to the National instead
27 Fire, having caught sight of retreat in range (8)
PYRENEES
PYRE (fire) + a reversal (retreat) of SEEN (caught sight of)
Down
1 Splendid, if cheap, shot by Yankee (6)
PEACHY
An anagram (shot) of CHEAP + Y (Yankee – NATO alphabet)
2 Officer not content, having criticised a bloomer (6)
ORCHID
O[ffice]R, without its content + CHID (criticised)
3 Procedure for rejecting an antique settee left uncovered outside (9)
ETIQUETTE
I solved the puzzle in the wee small hours and puzzled long and hard over the parsing of this: I could see all the components of the answer in the clue and got as far as [an]TIQUE (antique rejecting an) + [s]ETTE[e] (‘uncovered’) – but that left me with an e in the middle when I wanted it to be at the beginning! I finally gave up and hoped that, in time-honoured fashion, after a break – and some sleep – during which my subconscious would work on it, all would be clear in the morning. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen, so it’s over to you
Edit: please see comments 1 and 2 – many thanks to michelle and Petert et al
4 Open space on riverside for financial institution (8,4)
CLEARING BANK
CLEARING (open space) BANK (riverside)
6 Letter from abroad for volunteer soldiers until recently (5)
THETA
THE TA (Territorial Army – volunteer soldiers) as The Army Reserve was known until 2014
7 Mediterranean city‘s temper is rising. Help! (4,4)
PORT SAID
A reversal (rising, in a down clue) of STROP (temper – I love that word) + AID (help)
8 Our steel is forged to be firm (8)
RESOLUTE
An anagram (forged) of OUR STEEL
11 Everything for Montgomery? (3,4,5)
THE FULL MONTY
Monty, in full, is Montgomery
For suggestions for the derivation see here – all also included in Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable
15 Sexism may be regularly sparked by vodka essence in non-alcoholic drink (9)
PREJUDICE
sPaRkEd + D (middle letter – essence – of voDka in JUICE (non-alcoholic drink)
16 Endorsement of commercial choice (8)
ADOPTION
AD (commercial) + OPTION (choice)
17 Supporter for the woman in a depression (8)
ADHERENT
HER (the woman) in A DENT (a depression)
19 Stretch and have a long life, it is said (6)
DILATE
Sounds like (it is said) ‘die late’ (have a long life)
20 Reckless to ignore Malaysia’s capital for a break (6)
RECESS
REC[kl]ESS minus KL (Kuala Lumpur – Malaysia’s capital)
22 Stop rejecting the heart of Jesus to become a believer (5)
DEIST
DE[s]IST (stop) minus s (the middle letter – heart – of Jesus)
Liked PREJUDICE, NOTATE, DODGE A BULLET (I liked the clue, but not the concept of bullfighting); RECESS; DILATE (loi).
New: ZE = non-binary third person; Beria, Lavrenti = Soviet politician and head of the secret police 1938–53.
Thanks, both.
3d works for me as [an]tique [s]ette[e] and putting the E/TTE outside the tique bit
I think the Tique is in the middle of ette, the uncovered settee.
Always relish a Philistine puzzle. Last one in ZEBRAS. Needed the blog to understand the parsing of HAIKU…
And realise now that it is a rather brilliant clue…
Thank you Eileen. I loved 12 across too. Think that ‘This’ should be underlined as definition.
I also came here for ETIQUETTE, no suggestion there yet.
I liked PSEUDONYM. although as an Aussie I was looking for a shearer’s swag/blanket, or something to do with Tim Minchin. I do know Matilda the crossword setter though. Tickled at that.
HAIKU is excellent. Liked NOTATE and ZEBRAS too.
Some great clues, particularly HAIKU, DODGE A BULLET, NOTATE and ETIQUETTE. And linking rereading Proust with mental inertia was a good laugh. A few write-in clues, but all in all a wonderful puzzle.
Eileen: re ETIQUETTE, I see this as antique with the ‘an’ rejected i.e. tique, surrounded by ette (uncovered settee).
Many thanks to P & A.
paddymelon@5
ETIQUETTE is explained satisfactorily @ 1 and 2.
Thanks to Philistine for a tough but steady solve. Anyone else try MITER for 23? As in the way to ‘join’ wood: from MIT (university) and ER – half of ‘(t)er(m)’. No? Just me then… Thank you Eileen too, for the blog.
3dn: Yes I struggled also. Is it: ette (Settee uncovered) wrapping around tique when read in reverse?
HAIKU was brilliant when I finally realised what was going on. Lots of ticks inc DODGE A BULLET and PSEUDONYM. I had the same problem as you Eileen with ETIQUETTE and I still can’t move the middle ‘e’. Thought there were some fabulous clues although not too difficult. Bit of a geography theme going on maybe.
Ta Philistine & Eileen
So sorry – got interrupted in response to 3d and took so long to post others have said it far better.
Many thanks, michelle and Petert (and others) – obvious now, as I knew it would be!
Unfortunately, I have to go out to a meeting in a few minutes, so will miss the fun until lunchtime.
With michelle and Petert @1 and 2 on parsing of ETIQUETTE. It’s the grammar that’s unusual but perfectly within the etiquette of crossword setting I’d say. An interesting variation of ignore the punctuation. No put it in.
Yes, KVa@6. Too many fast fingers ahead of me. I thought I was first when I first posted.
I suppose I would not have been the only solver to initially think Haiti was answer to 12ac then, upon failing to parse that, finally got the joke and the answer simultaneously. It had me chuckling with delight as did so many of the other clues. Fabulous stuff Philistine. Thanks for blog Eileen and sorry about your sleep-depriving tussle on the antique settee.
michelle @1: yes that explains it well, I get it now.
Also loved HAIKU. I thought it interesting that “is” in the clue could be changed to “it’s” to give a different clue entirely 😉 Great blog, great puzzle!
TerriBlislow@16. Same, going for Haiti, initially.
A nice stroll today. HAIKU is not the best Haiku I’ve seen but it was a great clue. Took me a while to associate Matilda with PSEUDONYM but I got there in the end. Also liked DODGE A BULLET and DEIST.
Great fun as always from Philistine: smiles for DILATE and NOTATE, DODGE A BULLET and of course HAIKU. Didn’t know the non-binary pronoun (I thought it was “they”), so that’s me de-platformed.
ETIQUETTE is one of those annoying ones where both the container and the contained have the same letter and deciding how to position them is tricky. Happens a lot, but not to me this time because I didn’t spot the (an)TIQUE in the first place, only the sETTEe… The other one I had trouble parsing was REHEARSAL.
Beria was a long time ago now, but deservedly notorious – look him up and prepare to be horrified.
TerriBlislow@16 and paddymelon@19 – I can join the Haiti club as well!
Me too
Thanks Philistine and Eileen
What’s happened to the real Philistine? Apart from ETIQUETTE and HAIKU (another HAITI first), this flew in. Lovely clueing, though.
Just one quibble: a LASER is a device that produces the light, not the light itself (I suppose some will try to justify this as metonymy!)
I thought that was a very neat crossword. Not particularly difficult, but satisfying.
Favourites were HAIKU (tricky and my loi), DEIST and RECESS. I had the most trouble understanding ETIQUETTE. Not quite sure why.
I’m sure I’ve seen BERIA in crosswords before, though not recently. A chilling reminder of another Soviet secret police man.
Thanks to Philistine and Eileen
muffin @24, laser originally stood for the process rather than the device (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation). Metonymy on metonymy?
After a rapid start, this became a very satisfying brain exercise, grinding to a halt in the SE corner until I saw INDICATE would fit and is a synonym of show; I didn’t understand the rest of the clue. There were some nice tricky anagrams and penny drops for AT KNIFEPOINT, HAIKU, ZEBRAS, DODGE A BULLET. A very good puzzle.
Thanks for the blog , agree with the praise for HAIKU and PSEUDONYM ,
Also agree with PDM@ 5 that “This” is the definition for HAIKU , country works perfectly well on its own.
UNITE was very weak, most other clues were fine but a bit too friendly really.
A LASER produces light but I suppose we do call a bulb/lamp a light so fair enough.
Monkey @26
Fair point!
DILATE made me laugh. Probably a medical in-joke. Knowing Philistine’s day job I was also looking for a medical word in 3, reading (erroneously) the definition as ‘procedure for rejecting’ and thinking of another word that ended in ‘ette’, but too many letters.
Failed to get Recess which held me up in the SE.
PSEUDONYM made me laugh. Got HAIKU but failed to see that the clue was one which was annoying because I’ve seen that before and I love haikus.
Also liked PREJUDICE, PORT SAID
Thanks Philistine and Eileen
I put HAITI in at12a parsed using the ‘t’ from ‘that’ and the ‘i’ from ‘is’ (I know!) so couldn’t get 3d even though I had worked out how the clue works.
Some great clues here (as noted above).
Thanks Philistine and Eileen.
BTW you can buy a ‘laser light’ online.
Not Philistine’s most challenging crossword, but beautifully clued.
AT KNIFEPOINT is a great anagram, STUPOR and DILATE raised a smile, RECESS is deceptive (who else tried to remove an M?) and HAIKU is wonderful.
Many thanks to Philistine and Eileen
Very entertaining crossword.
I don’t know if it is a coincidence that Michael Palin of THE FULL MONTY had heart surgery in 2019 AT KNIFEPOINT. Maybe someone was measuring THETA waves …
I did like the anagram for AT KNIFEPOINT, and particularly enjoyed PSEUDONYM (thinking Matilda was some Oz reference) and ETIQUETTE where I managed to get my Es in the right place. Of course, I was another falling into the Malysia’s capital trick (and I also tried Haiti at first for 12 before thinking: “there’s no definition for HAIKU” before the seismic PDM).
Thanks Philistine for the fun and Eileen for putting it all into perspective.
Yes, add me to the HAITI list.
Thought for a while we might be in for a pangram: I was looking for W and X in the SE corner, but it wasn’t to be.
HAIKU is brilliant and elegant. Crossword life is punctuated by sublime moments like this.
Thank you, Philistine.
Thanks Philistine and Eileen.
ETIQUETTE fooled me but mainly because the definition (‘procedure’) was way too tenuous for my liking – there may be overlap but I have to furrow the brow quite a bit to get there.
But I had already messed it up earlier by revealing HAIKU where I expected ‘Bahai’ (it’s clearly spelt out). I appreciated the internal voice’s protest that it’s not a country but I reasoned that the internal voice doesn’t know everything (at this point there was a bit of a struggle but reason prevailed (unfortunately)) and missed the “seismic PDM” enjoyed (inter alia no doubt) by Robi@34. What a masterly clue (if ‘masterly’ can be taken to be PREJUDICE-free).
Funny, how differently people see clues. With RECESS, the phrase ‘Malaysia’s capital’ has me thinking ‘KL’ straight away, so it took only a millisecond to see the answer. Perhaps it’s just that we are much closer to KL here… (where’s Colin?) I had a fast start but slowed considerably towards the end. Many others have listed my favorites, so I’ll just say thanks to Philistine and Eileen.
Another HAIKU fan here. Having read the blog it made me wonder whether the online version was more satisfying to solve since it is a lot less obvious what is going on. Seeing the paper version in the blog I immediately thought that’s a haiku, but I may not have jumped to that immediately had I not already solved it online. Wonderful light bulb moment anyway.
Robi@24. You may be on to something there with Michael Palin, THE FULL MONTY and AT KNIFEPOINT, especially given their prominent position in the grid, and forming a crucifix. Perhaps also DODGE A BULLET?
Sorry, that’s Robi@34.
Thanks P & E
David Astle, a well known Australian crosswors setter has admitted doing British crosswords and has referenced one of Paul’s clues in this article,
https://www.smh.com.au/culture/books/after-37-years-of-making-puzzles-i-don-t-always-get-it-right-20220221-p59y8v.html
I also found this less tricky.
12a took some thinking about and eventually the penny dropped via a bung-in. A gap in my GK, so looking forward to reading up on it. Brilliant clue though.
I wondered about 17d, whether Gibralta was considered part of the said peninsula?
Anyway, nice for this solver to have a completed grid. Now to see if I have parsed everything correctly.
Thanks Eileen and Philistine…
Thx to Philistine for a good work out with some excellent clues and the remarkable HAIKU. Gladys @24 ??I’m not far behind you as the ‘Ze’ classification is new to me too.
Thanks to Eileen for her blog.
HAIKU! Sneaky and brilliant. Failed on 3d as a result of course. Thanks Philistine and Eileen.
Pretty proud with how I did this time, only missed four: DILATE (I tried figuring out if die-old was a homonym for a while though…), RECESS (was thinking of Jakarta as the capital, so was trying to find a Reckless word missing the M for Malaysia), PYRENEES (got as far as Pyre, and ironically had briefly been thinking of the Pyrenees for 1a earlier in the puzzle, but didn’t make the connection) and INDICATE (just never was going to get this one I think)
Also had trouble parsing ETIQUETTE in the exact same way as Eileen – could see the pieces, couldn’t put them together properly.
So three near-hits, 1 total miss and an otherwise very enjoyable crossword. DODGE A BULLET especially tickled me.
Thanks Eileen and Philistine
Has 3d something to do with banquette?
And, yes Haiti for me too until the epiphany of “this country”.
This was enjoyable. HAIKU rightly praised and, like gladys@35, I was expecting W and X in the SE corner. My LOI was RECESS, which was hiding in plain sight. I was looking for a synonym for “reckless” and to remove “M” from it. And even though I’d thought of KL, having dismissed “reckless” for the first reason, I didn’t consider it for “KL”. But the crossers appeared and peace was restored to this corner of the universe.
Thanks everyone for explaining ETIQUETTE.
Thanks Philistine for a finely clued puzzle and the (well-preserved) Eileen.
That was fun and lived up to my happiness to see Philistine’s name on the grid. I found it a bit easier than I often find Philistine’s puzzles;, particularly the top half. There are several versions of genderless pronouns, so I read that clue as I went through the first time thinking xe? which is the one I know better than ze, come back to it, hopefully with some crossers, and on the second pass, I’d realised. There were a lot of clues raised a grin.
Thanks to Philistine & Eileen for the blog.
For 5a, I keep rereading PROUST and it still comes out as PROUST every time. How is rereading supposed to be an anagram indicator?
And 21a across is a bit precious. As most of us don’t seem to know who Matilda actually is, apart from perhaps Mrs Philistine, how are we supposed to know that Matilda is a PSEUDONYM and not their real name?
I think that the definition for PSEUDONYM goes too far in assuming the Guardian crossword is a club for regular solvers only. Vulcan’s tribute to Rufus yesterday was fine as a one-off on a special occasion. But there’s no reason why a non-regular Guardian solver should know that Matilda is a setter’s pseudonym. It isn’t part of crossword language, and it isn’t any sort of general knowledge. I solved it easily enough because I solve the Guardian regularly- but a crossword clue in a national newspaper should not require one to know the setters in that newspaper.
That said. I enjoyed the crossword- thank to Philistine and Eileen.
Thanks Philistine & Eileen (I didn’t know about BERIA and needed help with ZEBRAS).
A clever HAIKU (like others I tried to shoehorn Haiti) and STUPOR raised a smile.
AT KNIFE POINT, DODGE A BULLET and CLEARING BANK all feel quite topical.
Like others, 12a went like this…
Yes, obviously Haiti…oh…maybe not… then much head scratching…
Haiti here too. Never got HAIKU until I checked Haiti — oops!
What a fine puzzle. Thanks to Philistine and to Eileen for her elegant blog, including the “full Monty” explanation, a good find!
[HAIKU set me thinking about other verse forms which could be clued in the form of the verse itself. ‘Rhyming couplet’ is a possibility but most others are too long – maybe ‘tanka’, but ‘bussokusekika’ is probably a step too far 🙂 ]
Should I be the annoying pedant who points out that HAIKU is defined by its content at least as much as its form? Nah, that would make me a spoilsport, and the clue was brilliant.
I’m yet another who tried HAITI first.
I think the “this” in HAIKU is the definition and “country” = UK.
Late to the party today. Like most I really enjoyed some fabulous clues, all mentioned above. I just popped in to answer TassieTim@38 and admit that for someone who lives in KL it took me an embarrassing time to get RECESS.
Robi @34 and paddymelon @40 – I’m puzzled by your references to ‘Michael Palin of THE FULL MONTY’: Monty Python’s Michael Palin was not in the ‘Full Monty’ that I saw!
Have I missed something?
Thanks both,
Any chance of a pedant point for pointing out that Malaysia has two capitals? KL is the commercial capital but Putrajaya is the seat of government.
Eileen @59 Thanks, I was going to say that, though the film was set in Sheffield, which (I believe) is where Michael Palin comes from.
Really enjoyable, not too tricky, solve.
HAIKU was the stand-out, and I agree that “This” is the definition which makes it even better.
High praise too for PSEUDONYM, NOTATE, and PREJUDICE
THANKS Philistine and Eileen (for explaining Beria)
I see that Alastair@57 is supporting paddymelon and Roz’s parsing of the clue for HAIKU with “This” as the definition. I can see that is defensible, but equally Eileen’s inclusion of “This country” = UK as part of the wordplay is entirely reasonable, with the benefit of leaving the whole clue as definition and thus an &lit, a “perfect” one as Eileen put it. They are difficult to achieve and thus rare so it seems churlish to me to try to sabotage this one.
Tyngewick@60, you are welcome to the pedant point, but no-one here refers to Putrajaya as Malaysia’s other capital. In fact the word is more often used as a metonym for incompetence.
Thanks Philistine and Eileen. Nice crossword with DODGE A BULLET being my favourite. Missed the brilliant HAIKU and DILATE.
Thanks, KLColin @63: I did ponder underlining ‘this’ but, having stuck out, for once, for an &lit (which no one has disputed), I realised I couldn’t have it both ways.
Nice to see your ‘sort-of’ namecheck. 😉
Eileen @59, as you say Michael Palin is one of the MONTY Pythons, nothing to do with the film of THE FULL MONTY.
I’m going to get a bit pedantic here, but it’s out of admiration rather than orneriness. The standout HAIKU is not an &lit. as usually defined, but is something else equally or more rare and sparkling, and deserves its own name, imo.
My thinking is this: a cryptic clue will have some or all of the folliowing: a definition, wordplay, surface meaning and form (the last of those usually being noun phrase, statement or question, but here it is verse). In an &lit., the definition takes up the whole surface, and uses the same words as the wordplay. Here the wordplay equals the form (the surface is about the pandemic, and does not “equal” the other two).
So I would call it an &form., or maybe &morph. if you want to be a bit more classical.
The FULL MONTY was Montague Burton was it not – a suit with waistcoat (or is that urban myth?) He was also the originator of “gone for a Burton”.
Meanwhile…ZE was new but logical. Read a book about Beria once – bad’un.
Very enjoyable but it took me 2 “thinks” to get through it.
Thanks Phil and Eileen
tim the toffee @69 – yes, your Montague Burton explanation is one of the three suggestions given in the link that I gave in the blog.
[tim the toffee @69: ‘full monty’ from the gents outfitters, probably, but ‘gone for a Burton’ more dubiously. From Wiktionary:
‘Originated in the RAF in World War II. Unknown beyond that, but may have some association with beer. One version is that it was from a series of ads for Burton’s beer which showed a group of people with one missing and the tag line “He’s gone for a Burton”’]
Count me in as another fan of HAIKU. Imho one of the best clues I have seen for a long while.
Thanks Philistine & Eileen. Lovely crossword, HAIKU is great. Nothing much else to say that hasn’t been said already.
Gervase @55 – not quite what you’re after, but this crossword by Angel at mycrossword.co.uk is very good (Angel is one of the newer crop of Indy setters).
Like AlanC and a few others I love a good theme (even when it’s not there!) and I too was struck by all geographical references.
[Incidentally, it appears that as a nation we are badly in need of a geography lesson; on House of Games last week not a single contestant could identify Egypt on a map of Africa 🙁 ]
Anyway a pleasant trip round the Med today, plus Malaysia, Haiti-that-wasn’t and Yankee to open up the horizons a little wider.
A bit of violence in the central latitudes: if this had been an Everyman I’d have nominated KNIFE and BULLET as the obligatory pair.
One minor quibble with DEIST = ‘believer’; most of the 17th/18th century Deists, such as Voltaire, were more noted for what they didn’t believe in than what they did, and the wiki article on Deism is categorised as “part of a series on Irreligion”.
I like Dr W’s &morph, at least partly because it reminds me of this.
Thanks Philistine & Eileen.
I’ve just got round to looking at the paper version. I agree that 12a is a bit more obvious in that format than it was on the printout.
Haiku was a great clue. I would not have got that.
essexboy @74: As far as I understand it, a DEIST believes in a creator god who does not interfere with the day-to-day workings of the universe (transcendant), whereas a ‘theist’ believes in a god who intervenes in human affairs (immanent). So a DEIST is technically an a-theist, though not necessarily a total unbeliever!
Van Winkle @50, “read” can be used in the wider sense of interpret (e.g. read a map/someone’s mind, etc.) and I think it works well enough as an anagram indicator in that sense. Your point about Matilda is fair, IMHO.
The crossword was great fun to solve. Very nicely written and witty with it. I stumbled on MITER and HAITI too. They almost parse. The crossers eventually came to the rescue.
Faves PROVENCE, AT KNIFEPOINT and DILATE.
Thanks, Phil and Eileen.
A DEIST would be a member of The Church of God the Utterly Indifferent ( Kurt Vonnegut ) , there is only one sin.
Gervase @77 – yes, the non-interference idea is certainly the one most commonly associated with Deism, but it wasn’t universal. Benjamin Franklin, who by his own testimony was ‘a thorough Deist’, held that “The Deity sometimes interferes by his particular Providence, and sets aside the Events which would otherwise have been produc’d in the Course of Nature, or by the Free Agency of Man,”
(I think I’m arguing against my own point @74 now 😉 )
Roz @79
Kurt Vonnegut persists in cropping up. What’s that one from?
btw have you heard this?
It was founded by Winston Rumford in the Sirens of Titan.
Doh! Forgot that you never click on links!
Despite that being one of the ones I’ve read (see 81), I’ve obviously forgotten that. Not a favourite writer, to be honest – a bit up himself?
He had a horrific experience in the war and spent most of his time trying not to write about it,
Despite “Slaughterhouse Five”? (One of the books that I rather wish that I hadn’t read!)
Even in Slaughterhouse Five he tries to avoid the reality of it , hence Kilgore Trout and Tralfamadore.
[Yes, but still the central event is the firebombing of Dresden.
Perhaps we ought to stop, or at least transfer to “General Discussion” (htough I don’t think I have much to add…)]
[ I need to go and see my stars, the sky is clear for once , ]
[Good luck, Roz]
Just finished the puzzle.
I really don’t know why they have to invent ‘non-binary pronouns’. The very expression makes me ill.
But to me, ze/zij is the Dutch pronoun for she.
Has anyone actually heard anyone use ze (in English)?
muffin & Roz
There has been far too much off-topic comment in this post, and in others recently (and you are not alone in providing it). I suggest you contact each other on a social media site and leave this one to its core activity, cryptic crosswords.
Fair enough, Gaufrid
Anna: Not I. I once read a book where ‘per’ was the uniform pronoun. Tough going is all I remember…. In Irish ‘he’ and ‘it’ are the same word: ‘sé’. I’ve listened to Francophones expressing distress at the “sexualisation” of pronouns (La Mer but L(e)’Ocean (which is bigger)) but you don’t get linguistic morphing just by asking or insisting. I think I agree with you – this is the language: speak it. There must be plenty of languages where the underlying sexuality of the pronoun is ignored (A shot in the dark – Greek?).
As to ‘ze’, it meant nothing to me but then that’s not unusual. But in crossword terms it seems to me a bit of a stretch.
Many thanks for all the comments.
In and out for much of the day so only now (just back from choir practice) have time to catch up, if anyone’s still there, and quite relieved to find that few of the twenty or so comments since I last had a look require a response from me (though I take Gaufrid’s point).
essexboy @75 – thanks for the travelogue. I did note the neat (for me) symmetry of PROVENCE and PYRENEES – very happy holiday memories of both. Thanks for the clip. 😉
muffin @75 – as I said, I solved the puzzle immediately after midnight, when it became available, so from a print-out, and was chuffed to spot that the clue for HAIKU was a haiku and therefore slightly disappointed when I saw the paper version this morning, which I thought made it perhaps rather too obvoious – but I would say that, wouldn’t I?
Van Winkle @50 – I’m afraid I overlooked your comment re 5ac when I arrived home later than expected this afternoon. I initially had similar qualms re ‘rereading’ but arrived at a similar to phitonelly’s conclusion @78 – thanks for that, phitonelly.
Sorry to be too late / tired to join in the deist / theist debate, which I would have enjoyed.
ZEBRAS & HAIKU my top 2 in this lovely gentle Philly puzzle. I too bunged in Haiti initially & also had to look up ze.
Thanks all.
HAIKU was stunning.
Well, I’m all in favour of non-binary pronouns. Sorry if that makes you feel ill, Anna @91. There are occasions when the gender of a person is unknown, and we tend to use “they”. E.g. “Someone will deliver the parcel, but I don’t know when they will come.” “They/them” is also often the preferred pronoun used by people who prefer not to be identified by gender. “They” however can be confusing as it mostly implies a plural. I hadn’t come across “ze” before, but it sounds like an excellent idea to me.
Languages change all the time. There was a time when Ms was considered very odd, but is now commonly used instead of Miss or Mrs.
[It’s your website, Gaufrid, and it’s entirely proper for you to set the rules, but speaking as one who tends to read all the comments comparatively late (breakfast time in Oz), I have to confess it’s mainly the off-topic conversations that encourage me to read through to the end., I suspect I am not the only one who feels this way, seeing that most of the purely technical crossword issues have usually been settled in the first twenty comments or so.]
Anna@91, Crossbar@98 – long before the term “non-binary” appeared, there were debates about a neutral pronoun to allow for (1) someone you didn’t know was male or female or (2) to preserve anonymity. I remember reading about various suggested pronouns but, apparently, “they/them” has some pedigree as a neutral pronoun and “we” seem to have settled on it (I vaguely remember The Times Style Guide accepted it many years ago). The alternative was to litter your sentences with him/her or to recast as plural and then use they/them. However, Crossbar’s “Someone” example is now common.
It’s always worth remembering that language belongs to everyone and no one. If people prefer a certain construction or word in a particular context to help them communicate “better”, that will probably prevail no matter how much you huff and puff about “falling standards”. That’s one of the disadvantages of a living language 😀
You can tell that I’m a fan of witty surfaces when I say that my two favourite clues were 18a MATADOR and my cod, 9a STUPOR. Big ticks also for 1a PROVENCE and 19d DILATE.
I was another HAITI, and when I saw the correct answer and parsing here I realised what a brilliant clue it was.
Hats off to Philistine for another gem. (And, VW@50 notwithstanding, I don’t begrudge Philistine the opportunity to give a shout out to Matilda.)
And thanks Eileen for the usual excellent blog, and for pointing out the FULL MONTY origin stories. The Burton one seems most plausible to me.
[Gaufrid, I’d like to echo GB@99’s comment. The number of comments wax and wane but rarely exceed 100 on The Guardian blog here. I find the tangents enjoyable. Apart from some people being put off by them (and if this is sizeable then it’s significant), are there any other constraints for you eg web storage? It would be a shame to stop this chat since it flows here and continuing on social media would require a context shift. Obviously, you set the rules.]
Anna@91, Crossbar@98, pdp11@100, I too had great difficulty with “they” as a singular pronoun, on the grounds that it made the language less precise – not because of the lack of gender ID, but because of the number confusion. But then I realized that for centuries we have done exactly the same thing with the second person pronoun. So “they”, singular and plural, is no different than “you”, singular and plural, and with the same verb treatment.
Mind you, I do like how southern Americans have pluralized “you” as “you all”, or “y’all”. Perhaps we could do the same with “they all”.
[I’d like to throw in a voice supporting Gaufrid. I come here to read about the various crosswords I do. The graun thread invariably has the most comments, because it does have a tendency to veer way off topic (and I’m not denying that I’ve been guilty of it myself).
But there are occasions when the comments run so astray that you wonder if there’s going to be another comment on the day’s puzzle.
Maybe someone could set up an online “15^2 commenters’ unrelated discussions” forum.]
cellomaniac@103 – lol – give it a few years and “they all” will be part of our vocab. Although in practice “you” singular and plural rarely require clarification, I’d have preferred to have kept “they” plural and had another neutral pronoun but the others (and certainly not “ze”) didn’t catch on. But that’s life 🙂
Simon S @104
Thanks for your support. I am trying to keep a reasonable balance between on and off topic comments. The site would be very dry, and perhaps verging on boring, if some social interchange were to be prohibited, but there needs to be a limit as to how far it goes. Hence I stepped in with my comment today.
I can easily set up another page for ‘unrelated discussions’, but there is already the General Discussion page which can be used for the social interchanges.
Re the “off topic”. I am usually very late with comment or very early, doing crossword at night in GB. If the former the posts can be lengthy and off putting. On topic gets very repetitive. We’re not really that interested in other folk’s favourites…are we? But that’s ok if briefly stated.
But when conversation are just a friendly chat or lengthy paragraphs between the few and not generating anything new or controversial then…not for me.
This is easily my longest comment.
Very sorry Gaufrid @92, I have one rule for crosswords and one rule for this site – do not annoy Gaufrid.
I will give myself a weeks ban as penance and to make me think about it in future.
cellomaniac @103, if you’re still around. Just to be pedantic, strictly speaking “you” is the plural, and “thou” the singular. You is the equivalent of vous in French, used formally and more politely in the singular. However thou, the tu equivalent has dropped out of use in everyday speech.
“Well, you learn something every day” and in this case it was ZE.
Particularly enjoyed INDICATE, NOTATE, DILATE, RECESS, and above all HAIKU which I think is one of the cleverest &lits I’ve seen for ages.
Thanks Philistine and Eileen.
I gave up on this late last night after a day out had impinged on my solving – both time and ability somewhat impacted, and just one clue left unsolved. But as I was waking up this morning DILATE came into my mind almost unbidden. (I had misled myself into thinking that the answer ended in AGE, and couldn’t shake myself out of it.)
I was another with HAITI written in, though not satisfactorily parsed – I had the ‘Is’ going to the ‘back’ of ‘Having An Illness That’s’ – but solving the clever and deceiving ETTIQUETTE disabused me of that. So I was able to appreciate HAIKU in all its glory. Favourite was REC(kl)ESS, and I enjoyed PSEUDONYM too – I don’t see a problem with Matilda as an example of one.
Thanks to setter and blogger. And to Gaufrid for his patience and good humour in hosting us here.
First time in a while I’ve managed a Wednesday puzzle. I’m another HAITI -> HAIKU, which was brilliant. I enjoyed PSEUDONYM too.