Guardian Prize 28,685 / Brummie

47 comments on “Guardian Prize 28,685 / Brummie”

1. Enjoyed this tho’ took a while. After getting most of the SW and NE slowed right down.

   Finally got HARPY and TRIBUNE and they helped me finish the bottom half of the puzzle. HARPY took a while because I was trying to think of an instrument with an F for female in it.

   Then up to the NW and suddenly – a penny drop moment – I realised that in 11a I was looking for *reaction on getting wind*. Burp sprang into mind but didn’t fit and suddenly I got BELCH and that helped me get the rest of the corner. Particularly liked HAMLET – I had forgotten a Derby could be a hat.

   Other favourites were GERTRUDE, RED DEER, ROMEO, STUBBS (I love his paintings of horses)

   Thanks Brummie and Eileen

2. Thanks to Brummie and Eileen. I struggled at times with parsing (and did not know ICH DIEN) and did not catch on to the Shakespeare theme until after I had finished – and I did remember the TUTOR in 3H6.

3. I liked this puzzle quite a bit, but also the blog, great job Eileen. I missed a couple of those themers.

   I liked the “overly protective” in TOMATO.

   The question-mark in HAMLET is unnecessary from a cryptic point of view, I think, but might be there just because the surface is pretty nonsensical. I didn’t see it as a definition-by-example, more the other way around.

   A bit puzzled by the “securing” as a link word in RED DEER. Seems a bit far from “is” or “produces”.

4. Thanks Eileen. My record of failure at spotting themes is still intact so you have provided me with quite a revelation. A pleasant interlude I thought but I know what you mean about straightforward and a little disappointing. Rather too many clues just wrote themselves in. Not to say there weren’t some clever ones too, my LOI was JOHN I’m afraid, even with the crossers I couldn’t see it for some time.

5. Thanks Brummie, I enjoyed this prize quite a bit. I figured there was a Shakespearean theme with ROMEO, HAMLET, WITCHES, and PUCK but I never bothered to search more deeply. Favourites included WITCHES, DETONATOR, HAMLET, WATER, and TOMATO. (I second Dr.WhatsOn in liking “overly protective.”) I needed a reference for STUBBS. Thanks Eileen for the ever thoughtful blog.

6. A bit like TonyS @5, I saw some Shakespearean characters fairly early on, and assumed that some of the other answers would also have appeared in his works, but couldn’t be bothered to use a fine tooth comb to find them. Lots to like in this. Thanks, Brummie and Eileen (for an excellent blog, including the combing).

7. The theme didn’t help me but should have given my favourites were HAMLET and YORK.
   Re King Tut, isn’t a centenary 100 years. so shouldn’t it be a semicentenary (aka quinquagenary according to wiki) in your blog?

8. Thank you, Eileen. I think that it is only in Richard II that Edmund Langley, as Duke of York, has ‘YOR(K)’ as his speech header in the Folio. Richard of York generally is ‘Rich(ard)’, and no doubt in his post-coronation guise as the last Plantagenet, he will be along here in due course to find fault with individual clues or with the whole puzzle. It may be unintended on Brummie’s part, but it struck me last week, among other embedded references, such as ‘Ariel like a HARPY’, that in the third scene of Macbeth, the three WITCHES, just before the entrance of Macbeth and Banquo, chant, ‘The weird sisters, HAND IN HAND, / Posters of the sea and land, / Thus do go about, about, …’

9. I enjoyed this one, and most of the answers came relatively smoothly, and then I came here to find I’d completely missed such a pervasive Shakespearean theme! A wonderfully complete blog, Eileen, that left me wondering how I could have missed something like that. Theme aside, there were some nice clues there; I particularly liked STUBBS. I did wonder about Logical ~= Realistic. I can imagine McCoy saying: “For goodness sake, Spock, be realistic!” Thanks to both Brummie and to Eileen.

10. The paper version didn’t have any special instructions. Very confused by this, which were the clues where you had to put a different word in the grid.

11. TimC@7 Eileen visited the 50th Anniversary fifty years ago, hence this year would mark the centenary.

    Woody@10 Eileen was referring to the previous occasion she had blogged a Brummie Prize puzzle, which was the one with special instructions. Not this one, which required no such substitutions.

    Many thanks Brummie for the puzzle and Eileen for an excellent blog.

12. Much enjoyed, especially the compactness of some of the clues. NURSE a favourite.

13. Thank you Eileen for guidance with DETONATOR. At first I had detonates but changed it when 27d wouldn’t go.
    We couldn’t explain the parsing without your help.
    As ‘enthusiastic amateurs’ we usually finish the Grauniad prize by the end of the week but this was more straightforward, so thanks Brummie for being gentle.
    Since discovering 15^2 a little more of the craft is being revealed so thanks to all the Bloggers for sharing.

14. My apologies to Larry@11. That’ll teach me to skim read. My apologies also to Eileen and thanks to her for her informative blogs.

15. @10… Yes me too, pretty sure there were no special instructions?

16. I did understand that the special instructions related to the Brummie puzzle 4 months ago, so my skim reading wasn’t that bad, I guess. 🙂

17. Very enjoyable. I assume Terry’s was in 22 to remind us of the fruit pastilles. The Tut story reminds me of the (no doubt apocryphal) story of taxis taking people to Tooting Common when asked to take people to the exhibition.

18. There were no special instructions, it was a reference to a previous puzzle. Enjoyed this, found it more accessible than some. Completely missed the Shakespeare theme, probably due to doing it over several days. Thanks Eileen, always enjoy 15 sq’d.

19. Did not see the mini-theme until I had solved Gertude and Hamlet.

    This was a DNF as I failed to solve 4 clues (13ac, 1d, 13d, 8d).

    I liked PHONOGRAM, GERTRUDE, BELCH (but had to google to remember who the old movie star was!)

    I could not parse 10ac, 12ac the BOAT bit = tender – why?, and 4d got it wrong – had guessed STABLE which I could not parse either.

    Thanks, both.

20. Thanks to Brummie for a very enjoyable Saturday morning, and to Eileen for digging out all of the more obscure Shakespearean references.

    I particularly liked the surfaces of some of the shorter clues: IRIS, GOA,STUBBS, as well as TOMATO.

21. Yes, a pretty straightforward solve in one sitting, with the Bard jumping off the screen again. Thanks to Eileen for the super blog and teasing out all the references. I liked STUBBS and GOA.

    Ta Brummie & Eileen

22. michelle @19 – I presume you’ll have looked up ‘tender’: ‘a small craft that attends a larger’ (Chambers); ‘a small boat, such as a dinghy, towed or carried by a yacht or ship’ (Collins).
    When I was teaching in Belfast, I went on a school cruise. The ship was found to be too big to navigate Belfast Lough, so we were taken by tender to Bangor Bay, where it was anchored. The sea was rather choppy and there was quite a gap between us and the bottom of the ladder, so we had to wait until we were at the crest of a wave and then leap into the arms of a couple of crewmen waiting to help us up. I’ve seldom been more terrified.

23. Logical and Realistic properly separate the two sorts of discourse distinguished by Hume. Logical conclusions follow from premises however absurd. Realistic conclusions follow are based on evidence.
    But thanks anyway Brummie for the characteristic fun
    Croc

24. [Where did you teach Eileen? I went to Grosvenor High]

25. Very good blog Eileen and I like the Belfast story – thanks.
    I missed out like earlier posters by just doing it pretty quickly and noticing a few Shakespeare characters. GERTRUDE YORICK and HAMLET but not really looking for or enjoying the theme. All that work unappreciated by me last week.
    Pity there was no invitation to link 15 clues, well for me at least.
    Thanks Brummie

26. Another enjoyable Prize puzzle, this one with a theme that went a lot further than I realised (I recognised only about half of the characters).

    I see the ‘overly protective’ device in TOMATO was popular – I liked it too. And I’m glad I’m not the only one whose last one in was John – it’s often the clues with the simplest constructions that fox me!

    Dr.Whatson @2
    In HAMLET, Derby is indeed an example of a hat, so HAT is derived from the clue as a definition by example, signalled by ‘?’.

    Thanks to Brummie, Eileen and commenters. It was a pleasure to read through the blog and comments today.

27. Probably way before your time, Alan @24 😉 – it was Princess Gardens, University Street.

28. Thanks Eileen. I had a flat in University Street when I was at QUB.

29. mihelle@19, Eileen@22
    I remember seeing a yacht called “Lolita” towing a dinghy on the stern of which was painted “Humbert Humbert tender to Lolita”
    A pleasant solve. I spotted the theme. It didn’t help in solving though it was necessary for some parsing.
    I thought that SATE only meant “to satisfy fully” as Chambers says, which doesn’t necessarily imply overindulgence, but Chambers continues “to glut”, a word I haven’t met before except as part of “gluttony”.
    Thanks to Brummie and Eileen.

30. Most enjoyable. Thanks to Brummie, and to Eileen for unravelling it all so informatively as usual. Lots of fun and clever clues, and I spotted the more obvious Bardy references while missing about half! Congrats on finding so many, and thanks for the link to Tennant’s Hamlet performance. I have seen hundreds of versions, and it never gets old.

    I had to ponder a while, having identified B-ELCH in 11 across, which movie star had been topped. Raquel Welch was an interesting choice; I don’t now whether she actually appeared topless (haven’t seen many of her films), but much of her renown was for how she wore a top, as it were. I hope this observation isn’t taken as overly crude or sexist.

    My only objection – as a Tottenham supporter – was “cutting Spurs’ lead” in 13 across: an untimely reminder of how frequently it happens.

    Thanks to B & E.

31. That should read “know”. Strange, I thought I had spotted and corrected that error before posting.

32. I found this pretty easy for a Saturday, with several write-ins, including ICH DIEN and SCIATICA. (Thanks, Eileen, for the link to the piece about the Prince of Wales, with about five possible explanations for the use of a German phrase and a suggestion that it’s actually badly rendered Welsh.)

    I got most of the Shakespeare characters, and guessed that HARPY and TUTOR would also fit the theme, so thanks again to Eileen for doing the research and/or having superior knowledge.

    I liked the clue for STUBBS, with the subtly misleading ‘the horses’ which is meant to send us in the direction of a racing tipster; as an artist George Stubbs studied just ‘horses’! We had his Whistlejacket on loan here in a Sheffield gallery some years ago – very impressive.

33. Speaking of themes, when I solved WATERloo, and JOHN Major in quick succession, I wondered if there was a Paul-ish theme of plumbed-in conveniences going on. I was pleased to find there wasn’t. “For this relief much thanks” to quote someone or other.

34. Thanks Brummie and Eileen.

    How did I miss this theme? ROMEO, HAMLET, PUCK aaargh. Anyway.

    I enjoyed this completely and the only negative was an eyebrow wiggle over the choice of Raquel Welch as a movie star – how many under 60 would remember her? (I remember her but just barely.)

35. Thanks Brummie and Eileen, enjoyed both the puzzle and the blog. Spooner’s Catflap @8 does a good spot on HAND IN HAND which I missed despite having studied Macbeth at O level and appeared in it twice (once as a witch!) – it also appears in the last line of Comedy of Errors “And now let’s go hand in hand, not one before another.’

36. AlanB@26 yes of course. I was thinking the reference was to hamlet and community.

37. Thanks Eileen and Brummie. Like so many others I completely missed the theme! In 22d TOMATO I assumed that Mother Terry referred to Mother Teresa of Calcutta, no?

38. michelle @19 If you’re not familiar with cruises and cruise liners then tender may well be unfamiliar to you. Often ships can’t berth in a port, for various reasons, and remain outside it at anchor. Then tenders, which double as the ship’s lifeboats, are used to ferry passengers to land. There are always a couple of crew members to help you from ship to tender, though it is never as precarious as your experience Eileen. Transfers never take place in bad weather. Most passengers rather enjoy a helping hand from the sailors. 🙂

39. Thanks Eileen.

    Confidently writing in GOLF for 1dn at the very beginning made life harder, but got there in the end. “Detailed” as a modifier to produce GOA was new to me.

40. Thanks, Crossbar @38! “Transfers never take place in bad weather”. This was in 1962(!) and, as a non-swimmer, I’m not saying that it was what sailors would call ‘bad weather’ but I still sometimes relive it in my nightmares.
    [Too much information, perhaps, but I did discover, soon after I returned home, that I was actually expecting my firstborn – it took longer to find out in those days. 😉 ]

    Legal Weevil @39 – I don’t instantly recognise your name, so, if you’re a new commenter, welcome – and, if not, my apologies.
    De-tailed is a pretty common indicator to remove the last letter, so well worth filing away.

41. [Eileen @40 I can see how those two events combined might stay in your mind for a long time. 🙂 ]

42. Thanks again, Crossbar – she’s 59 next month, bless her 😉

43. [I know how you feel Eileen. Where does the time go? ]

44. Hi again, Crossbar – a real pause for thought, isn’t it?

45. Crossbar @ 38. Cruises didn’t even enter my mind for ‘tender’. The small boat that a yacht tows behind because the yacht was moored offshore, and the dinghy is needed to get out to it, is what I think of as a tender. Alphalpha @ 34 – I think most people would remember Raquel bare – or nearly so, anyway.

46. “Tender” for “boat” reminds me of a rather frightening song, “Here’s the tender coming,” with the tender coming ashore from the ship filled with marines looking for young men they can impress (kidnap) for the Royal Navy. It’s a Norfolk song — “Here’s the tender comin,’ Pressin’ all the men, Oh dear hinny What shall we do then?” They were greatly feared along the coast, and even the well-established (but highly skilled) keelmen weren’t safe. “They’ll ship you foreign:”

    Thanks for a fine crossword, Brummie, with more Shakespeare references than I caught on my own, and to Eileen for helping me catch them and with the puzzle overall.

47. Alphalpha @34: liked your barely joke – cute

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