Guardian Cryptic 28,701 by Crucible

62 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,701 by Crucible”

1. Last one in appropriately enough was GARBAGE CAN into which I have tossed my empties. Very enjoyable early morning alcoholic journey….

2. Good fun once I got going; particular favourites OENOLOGY, MOTIVATIONAL (brilliant charade!), NIGHTCAP, GARBAGE CAN. Slightly led astray by 18a which appears to have ZERO hiding in it; I think it’s probably my least favourite clue in this puzzle because it simply seems a bit crude, like Paul without the twinkle in the eye – but given the theme I guess it had to be.
   Thanks to Crucible and manehi

3. Yes, good fun today. There’s a theme but it’s very light touch. 5 dn went in quickly which helped open up the whole grid. Thanks Crucible and manehi.

4. Great fun and a theme right up my street, unlike yesterday. Laughed at LEAK and thought SOUR MASH was brilliant. Also liked TOUCH, MOTIVATIONAL and NECK amongst others.

   Ta Crucible & manehi

5. A bit early in the morning for all this booze – but an enjoyable puzzle nevertheless.

   My ticks were for STOWED, OENOLOGY, MOTIVATIONAL (brilliant indeed, NeilH – I enjoyed piecing it together), WINEMAKER, and ALL AT ONCE but pick of the bunch was CANNULAE, because it reminded me of one of my all-time favourite clues from 2008(!): ‘Where Romans couldn’t win, Scots can’t (6)’.

   Many thanks to Crucible and manehi.

6. Thanks for parsing TOUCH, manehi; that eluded me. And thankyou, Crucible, foir a fun crossword. My favourites were REAL ALES and SOUR MASH though I agree with NeilH @2 that OENOLOGY and MOTIVATIONAL were also clever.

7. Thanks Crucible and manehi
   I found this very easy, especially for a Crucible, but lots of fun. Even I saw the theme! I didn’t parse my LOI (as with Ronald @1) GARBAGE CAN – having seen the parse, it’s much more complex than the others.
   Favourites REAL ALES and SOUR MASH.

8. I remember that clue, Eileen @5. Yes, it was brilliant.

9. I’m afraid I’m going to be the party pooper. Yet another theme. This one impossible to miss, even for me. I’m now craving a vanilla no gimmicks crossword please.

   First pass through didn’t yield much, but then it all fell into place, with SW resisting the longest. LIQUOR caught me out at first, but I liked it, and also liked the wordplay for TOUCH, very clever. I was not sure that TOUCH and taste are equivalent, but your explanation manehi cleared that up.

   After you’ve got HAMMERED NECKing all that booze, had a LEAK and liver disease sets in then the CANNULAE will be required.

   Thanks Crucible, I enjoyed the great clueing but not the theme (though I do have the occasional glass). And thanks manehi.

10. Seemed really hard to begin with, then once I got going it was all very well clued. LOI was CANNAE – d’oh! The answers mostly seemed easy once I got them, often with the helpful crossers. Many thanks Crucible and manehi.

11. Sorry CANNULA of course

12. And even that went in wrong! Crucible has removed my brain!

13. Fun puzzle. Oddly, my FOI was CANNULAE, so I was expecting a more esoteric set of vocabulary, but I soon got a handle on the crossword, which all fell out surprisingly neatly.

    Favourites as for NeilH @2. I also liked ALL AT ONCE (interesting that the phrase contains a reversal of almost its opposite). ‘Sack producer’ would have been a great cryptic definition in an athematic puzzle – it’s still good, but the theme gave the game away rather too easily 🙂 .

    Thanks to S&B

14. Does anyone know why (like today, for instance,) the online crossword sometimes prints out with a smaller font than usual, with some of the letters being enclosed within a small rectangle … but the grid remains the same size as normal ?

15. I had the same favourites as Eileen and found this generally in the Goldilocks zone. [As a true Guardian reader I feel empties should go in the recycling bin, not the garbage can]

16. The comments section below the crossword itself is always teeming with complaints about “too much UKGK”. For a change, I’m going to have a moan that GARBAGE CAN is horribly American. And my RUBBISH BIN agrees.

17. Thank you manehi for an excellent, restrained and diplomatic blog. I would just have come straight out and said it was so easy it was boring. An easy puzzle every now and then is fine but I do think we’re having too many easy puzzles this week.

    And here in Finland, too, we take all the empties back and get money on them.

18. biggus56 @ 16

    Totally agree with you. But remember, the Guardian caters for americans, not British readers. It has totally betrayed its roots. Even publishes whole articles written in american. A disgrace.

19. biggus56 @16 and UTE (4d) is horribly Australian 😀

20. Well I enjoyed this, although somehow didn’t notice the theme until I was entering my LOI (WINEMAKER). Swells for GENTRY and GIN AND IT were new to me.

    Crucible and manehi – cheers!

21. Smooth enough, and even I couldn’t miss the theme, however “Scot” (9a) is not an adjective, I don’t think the grammar works.

22. Oh dear. Two wrong answers. I had DILATE (vaguely recalling – wrongly? – that ‘truck’ was slang for ‘eat’ – and me an Aussie as well! – though a ute isn’t a truck, of course) and GARBAGE BAG – I remembering intending to go back and parse that, but never got around to it. Nor did I go back to parse MOTIVATIONAL fully (though I spotted IONA), but at least I got that right. I assumed there was a Sybil Rees I had never heard of, too. Isn’t SOUR MASH American as well?

23. Whoops. Thanks, Crucible and manehi.

24. Another straightforward solve but fun along the way.

    For me NIGHTCAP was the pick of the bunch.

    Thanks Crucible and manehi

25. The ute was invented in Australia when a farmer’s wife requested a vehicle that could be used to cart animals during the week and drive to church on Sundays. We are notorious for shortening words (e.g. barbie, tradie, sickie, firie, ambo) and ute is yet another example. Someone who commented on a Guardian Quick crossword a few years ago decried “ghastly Australianisms” so I adopted the moniker ghastlyozi. A really enjoyable puzzle and I loved the theme. Thanks Crucible and manehi.

26. poc @21: ‘Scot’ in the clue is a noun, not an adjective, and as an appellation for a person from Scotland it is perfectly standard. What’s the problem?

27. Gervase @26
    It’s a noun in the surface, but needs to be an adjective in the wordplay, indicating the Scots form of “isn’t able to”.

28. I parsed TOUCH as ‘too much’ omitting ‘OM’ = ‘Order of merit’.
    Enjoyable, if mostly fairly easy puzzle.
    Thanks Crucible and manehi.

29. Sorry manehi, I’ve just realised that I only read half of your explanation of the parsing of TOUCH. Must pay more attention!

30. muffin @27: I see the problem now! Would ‘Scots not able to’ get round the difficulty?

31. Gervase @30
    Yes, that would work.

32. Liked: NIGHTCAP.

    New: ONE OVER THE EIGHT = drunk; SOUR MASH.

    Thanks, both.

33. I liked this but had a large bottle of niggles.

    It started with Scot not being an adjective, continuing with several ONs being used for me incorrectly in across clues, the use of ‘down’ in 14, the redundant ‘to taste’ in 23, and skirting not seeming to agree with the infinitive train in 25. 5 (terrible chestnut), 8, for its ‘barrel’, 15, where ALL appears as is, and 19, where GOING is reversed anyway irked a bit in the downs, but as I say, these items didn’t absolutely sozzle my enjoyment.

    There’s nothing wrong with alcohol, I generally find, so let’s hope that Crucible is one who enjoys the occasional sharpener too. Fun puzzle.

34. UTE was new to me though it was obvious what it must be: took a while to decide which way round licker/LIQUOR worked and whether the GARBAGE went in a bin or a bag or a can: couldn’t parse TOUCH.

    No, not the hardest in the world, but some nice clues like SOUR MASH and REAL ALES. The theme helped to get WINEMAKER.

35. poc @21 & muffin @31: ‘Scots aren’t able to’ would be better, as the grammar requires the copulative verb – and CANNAE, being a modal verb, works as both singular and plural.

36. Eileen @5: hadn’t come across that clue before, how clever? Can you recall who set it?

37. A number of sequential solves which made this puzzle even more enjoyable. Great theme with lots of favourites especially SOURMASH, REALALES, BANTAMWEIGHT, WINEMAKER, and MOTIVATIONAL.?Thanks to Crucible and manehi.?

38. Anna@17 We can get money back on our empties in some states (11 I believe). Connecticut is one of them. If you buy your bottles in a non-deposit state, you can’t get money for them in a deposit one, because they’re marked differently. Or at least that’s true for cans.

    muffin@27 “Scot” in the clue is a noun, subject of “isn’t able to,” but in the wordplay it has to be an adjective modifying “isn’t able to,” and it just isn’t. Imagine “Frenchman” in its place referring to an expression in French — wouldn’t work as “how they say it in French.”

    lp@33 There are two A’s in ALL AT ONCE, and ALL is reversed inside A+CE. It’s A(LL AT ON)CE, and NOT AT ALL is reversed inside the parentheses.

    Great fun last night and this morning. Thanks to Crucible and manehi.

39. William @36 – it was 24,279 (Gordius).

    I’m afraid I misquoted it: ‘Where Rome couldn’t win, Scots can’t’ – but, in this case, it makes no difference.

40. I’ve never heard of CANNULAE and couldn’t trapeze over the clue to get there – is ‘cannae’ in any dictionary?

    That didn’t sozzle my enjoyment either (tlp@33) though and the only residual pebble in my flip-flops was the ‘b’ for ‘barrel’ in GARBAGE CAN which is news to me – an accepted usage? I do agree (with tlp@33) that there does seem to be a missing reversal indicator in EGGNOG. To balance that I take the view (again tlp@33) that “one using tongue to taste” is a ‘licker’ and no violence is done to the clue by the inclusion of ‘to taste’.

    Thanks both for the distraction, entertainment and enlightenment.

41. Alphaalpha @ 40: CANNAE is in Chambers, as befits a dictionary of Scottish origin. And it’s in my copy of the Dictionary of the Scots Language 🙂 .

42. In 1a, I’m surprised that Crucible did not use a different first vowel and provide a clue that would lead to a solution apposite to the theme.

43. Thanks Crucible and Manehi. I’m with PeterT @13 – this one was bang in the Goldilocks zone for me. Took a while to get started but provided much joy as the clues eventually fell. 17a is an absolute beauty of a clue.

44. Very enjoyable…it’s good when you can get CANNULAE and OENOLOGY.
    GARBAGE CAN was the other end of spectrum involving not one but two US-isms and I couldn’t parse it.

    Thanks Crucible and Manehi

45. Thanks manehi and Crucible. I’m sure I won’t be the only Scot to have this brought to mind by 9a.

46. Enjoyed this libational offering. I tried out COPOLOGY for 5a before seeing the light.
    In 21, TOUCH and TASTE are often used colloquially as verbs (“Some people like cauliflower but I wouldn’t touch it”), so that’s how I rationalised it.
    In CANNULAE, I think it’s ok as written, because Scot. is listed in Collins online as an abbreviation for Scottish, so therefore can be taken as an adjective. Liked the battle clue from Gordius too – thanks, Eileen.
    Some of the others quibbles mentioned seem a little hypercritical. I thought it was deftly clued throughout.
    Good fun. Thanks Crucible and manehi.

47. DuncT @45 – my Scottish husband loved teaching that to the grandchildren. Thanks for the delightful version!

    phitonelly @46 (et al) re touch and taste – I’ve been in and out all day, so didn’t have time to join in this discussion earlier. My first husband was from Northern Ireland (Crucible’s home) and, during my ten years’ living there, I was often amused to hear folk saying that, for instance, a squeaking door needed ‘a wee taste of oil’. or a flowerbed ‘a wee taste of manure’! manehi’s parsing is spot on – and endorsed by Chambers. 😉

48. With respect, where Scot. is an abbreviation, Scot is not.

49. RE 9a CANNULAE, I just assumed that Scot could mean the Scottish language, and it never occurred to me that in that context it would require a dot, so I had not problem parsing that clue.

    GC@42, when I had the crossers I too expected to get STEWED, and was surprised that the clue didn’t take me there.

    Thanks, Crucible and manehi for the pleasant crossword and blog.

50. Too hard for me. I only got DESOLATION which seems appropriate.

51. Where I come from “canna” is more common than “cannae” but I have no problem with this or its close neighbour “dinnae”. I do have a problem with “caught” as a homophone indicator in 23ac.

52. This American failed at GARBAGE CAN because my empties go into the recycling bin. In any event I liked SOUR MASH, BANTANWEIGHT, and TEAT and I did not understand GENTRY, NECK, or LEAK until I came here. Thanks to both.

53. Sorry, jellyroll @ 51, I didn’t catch what you said.

54. HI Eileen @47,
    I agree manehi’s parsing for 21 is fine. I was just pointing out it can work in the case of verb forms too.

55. Alastair@50. Thank you, you’ve made my day. (5 solved).

56. Hi phitonelly @54 – I understand what you’re saying.

57. Contrary to some on here, this was a perfect crossword for me – thanks Crucible.

    I sat for ages with just one answer (BANTAMWEIGHT) before the remainder very slowly, but steadily, fell into place.

58. Among other things, I’ve learned two new meanings for NECK! (Had to use a thesaurus to get the answer).

    And 5D was a completely new slang phrase.

    Missed “about” = “CA” in 8D and “with” = “W” in 20A, but that’s part of the fun of the game, isn’t it?

59. All went in rather easily, although unusually for me I solved it from the bottom upwards. Too many favourites to list I’m afraid ! The theme was particularly sour after I had spent lunchtime combining REAL ALES with curry. It’s an age thing……

    Thanks to Manehi and Crucible.

60. No idea how I typed “particularly sour” when I meant to type “particularly apt” ! Now that definitely IS an age thing !!!

61. I was convinced by the reference to whiskey that Irish would be part of the solution so was trying to find a first word using ‘iri’. Maybe I shouldn’t assume that the whole world uses the Scots spelling except when making a point.

62. Too late for anyone other than setter or blogger to be reading this, but I just wanted to thank Crucible for all the fun I had sharing the drinks with him, to manehi for the helpful blog, and to DuncT@45 (if ye happen to come back) for a new song to sing to my granddaughter!

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