Thank you to Mobo (a tricky new setter). Definitions are underlined in the clues.
Across
1. Search old parts belonging to record? (8,4)
QUESTION MARK : QUEST(a search/a hunt for something) + O(abbrev. for “old”) contained in(parts) [ IN(belonging to/within) + MARK(a record/a symbol made as a record of something) ].
8. Throwing lines on river catching a fish (7)
ROACHES : OCHES(throwing lines/lines you stand behind to throw in a darts game) placed after(on) R(abbrev. for “river”) containing(catching) A.
9. Useless goods and fine item in auction identical, finally going (7)
FLOTSAM : F(abbrev. for “fine”) + LOT(an item for sale in an auction) + “same”(identical) minus its last letter(finally going).
Defn: …/rejected or discarded things.
11. US independent study with arbitrator (7)
MUGWUMP : MUG(to study as far as possible in a short time) + W(abbrev. for “with”) + UMP(short for “umpire”/arbitrator in a match, say).
Defn: In the US, one who remains independent/does not participate in party politics.
12. Relied upon Shed getting back to Guardian (5,2)
LEANT ON : LEAN-TO(a shed sharing a wall with a larger building) plus(getting) last letter of(back to) “Guardian“.
13. Where actors may be beginning (5)
ONSET : [ON SET](in the place or area in which actors perform for a film or play).
14. Way to get out member sooner (3,6)
LEG BEFORE : LEG(a member/a limb) + BEFORE(sooner than the present time).
Defn: … a batsman in cricket, aka “leg before wicket/lbw”.
16. Police officer once excited with strip (9)
INSPECTOR : Anagram of(… excited …) [ONCE plus(with) STRIP].
19. Arrange severance of leg in attack (3,2)
SET UP : “on”(leg/one half of the cricket field) deleted from(severance of … in) “set upon”(to attack someone violently).
21. Criminal British chemicals company once filling incorrect tanks in the van (7)
ILLICIT : ICI(abbrev. for “Imperial Chemical Industries”, once a British chemicals company) contained in(filling) [ ILL(incorrect/faulty, as in “ill judgement”) + 1st letter of(… in the van /in the lead) “tanks“.
23. Boiler fixed by unknown bloke once offering staff work? (7)
BERLIOZ : Anagram of(… fixed) BOILER plus(by) Z(symbol for an unknown quantity in maths).
Defn: A chap/bloke who once composed artistic work/music with notes written in staffs/staves/the sets of parallel lines.
Answer: .., Hector, French Romantic composer.
24. How some may pick up old picture in seaside resort (7)
TORQUAY : Homophone of(How some may pick up) “talkie”(an old term for a picture/film with sound/spoken dialogue, when such were still a novelty).
Defn: … on the south-western coast of England.
25. Having no time at all for money, online pest producing bumf (3,4)
LOO ROLL : Every “t”(abbrev. for “time”) deleted from(Having no … at all for) [ “loot”(money, in slang) + “troll”(an online pest/one who deliberately makes offensive or provocative online posts).
Defn: That for which “bumf” is a dated term.
26. Song to develop: originally called press for review (4,2,6)
COME ON EILEEN : [COME ON](to develop/to progress) + reversal of(… for review) [NEE(originally called/named when born) + LIE(to press/rest on something, exerting gravitational pressure) ].
Defn: … by English group, Dexys Midnight Runners.
Down
1. Note attempt to annul endless external organisations such as the NHS (7)
QUANGOS : [ N(abbrev. for “note”) + GO(an attempt/a try at) ] contained in(… external) “squash”(to annul/to put an end to) minus its 1st and last letters(endless).
I thought the wordplay’s construction a bit clumsy.
2. Draw off tax and sue husband for corruption (7)
EXHAUST : Anagram of(… for corruption) [TAX plus(and) SUE + H(abbrev. for “husband”) ].
3. One appointed as first controller of Hercules among many (4,5)
TEST PILOT : Cryptic defn: Reference to controller/pilot of aircraft, among which the Hercules is an example.
… a Herculean aircraft.
4. Refuse by river (5)
OFFAL : OF(by, as in “an action by the rulers”) + FAL(the river in Cornwall, England).
Defn: …/waste material.
5. Money to make fast fell over time (7)
MOORAGE : MOOR(fell/a stretch of high moorland) placed above(over, in a down clue) AGE(a period of time).
Defn: Money charged to make fast/moor a boat or ship.
6. Dish ordinary man respectfully rejected — too much stuffing (7)
RISOTTO : Reversal of(… rejected) [ O(abbrev. for “ordinary”) + SIR(a respectful term of address for a man) ] containing(… stuffing) OTT(acronym for “over the top”/too much/in excess).
7. Acrobat bum-over-hip in roll (12)
TRAMPOLINIST : TRAMP(a bum/a vagrant) + O(abbrev. for “over” in cricket scores) + [ IN(hip/up-to-date with fashion) contained in(in) LIST(a roll/a register of names) ].
10. Araucaria‘s silence surrounding where to begin typing page? (6,6)
MONKEY PUZZLE : MUZZLE(to silence/to gag) containing(surrounding) [ ON KEY(where one begins to type with a keyboard) + P(abbrev. for “page”) ].
Defn: A tree of the genus, Araucaria.
15. Glitter possibly caught on bare bottom in Gucci blouse (9)
GARIBALDI : Homophone of(… possibly caught) “Gary”(Glitter, professional name of former glam rock singer) placed above(on, in a down clue) BALD(bare/uncovered) + last letter of(bottom in, in a down clue) “Gucci“.
The surface somewhat apt for Glitter.
17. Battle of Orleans all over the place (7)
SALERNO : Anagram of(… all over the place) ORLEANS.
Defn: … in WW2.
18. Miss out with date, without this for protection? (7)
EXCLUDE : D(abbrev. for “date”) contained in(… for protection) [ EX-(prefix signifying “without”, as in “ex-dividend”) + CLUE(this, refering to what you’re solving) ].
19. One’s near where academics may relax with, say, glasses raised (7)
SCROOGE : SCR(abbrev. for “senior common room” used by the teaching staff/academics of a college, for relaxation, say) plus(with) reversal of(… raised, in a down clue) [ EG(abbrev. for “exempli gratia”/for example/say) + OO(letters representing a pair of spectacles/glasses) ].
Defn: A fictional character who was near/stingy.
20. Unlimited thread for wrapping round my hat (7)
TRICORN : “string”(a piece of thread) minus its 1st and last letters(Unlimited …) containing(for wrapping round) COR!(like “my!”, an expression of surprise).
22. A fitting tribute, retiree initially going to that local (3-2)
TRY-ON : 1st letters, respectively, of(… initially) “tribute, retiree” plus(going to) YON(in dialect/local vocabulary, “that”, refering to something that is a distance away).
Tricky indeed.
Thanks schuaa for the usual interesting blog. I struggled with lots of the parsings here so I really appreciated your blog. How such solutions as 19d SCROOGE worked were just beyond me. Thanks to Mobo for a very challenging puzzle.
Thank you scchua as I couldn’t think why ILL = incorrect, didn’t get the definition of BERLIOZ (thinking that a staff was not quite right for a conductor’s baton) nor LOO ROLL (I am familiar with Bumf as supplementary paperwork arriving with some forms or brochures), nor did I follow the derivation of EILEEN.
I thought it was just QUASH=annul that lost one end but SQUASH also works I suppose.
I found this hard but ended up really enjoying the challenge, typified by big smiles from SCROOGE and RISOTTO, but most of all amazed that MUGWUMP has been lurking in my head for who knows how long and finally made itself useful. Thanks, welcome and well done Mobo!
We liked this very much!
Is it somehow a tribute to Eileen?
Thanks scchua for the photo of a garibaldi you don’t eat, and thanks Mobo for the fun.
This kept up the recent tradition of new setters serving up a very difficult first puzzle. It took me a while to get my first in LEANT ON and after that the pattern was just to get another four or five answers and then become stuck again. Eventually completed with TRAMPOLINIST and the crossing MUGWUMP (new to me) my last couple in.
I liked the punctuation mark as def 1a, the LOO ROLL parsing and the surface for LEG BEFORE. I couldn’t parse the first bit of the wordplay for QUANGOS but otherwise all made sense. I’ve also learnt a GARIBALDI can be a ‘blouse’ as well as a biscuit.
Thanks and welcome to Mobo and to scchua
Even though I didn’t see the full parse for 26a COME ON EILEEN, I liked it a lot due to my huge respect for our blogger Eileen.
Thanks, scchua, for sorting out the “annul endless” wordplay in 1d. In MONKEY PUZZLE I thought the wordplay was even more explicit. If you want to type “Page” you’ll begin “on key P”.
At first I thought I wasn’t going to get very far at all with this, but MONKEY PUZZLE came to my rescue at 10d, and I was away. A real struggle at times, but I persevered, though my last two in, COME ON EILEEN and SCROOGE I had very little idea about why they should be correct. Several others revealed their parsing in tortuous retrospect. I’m sure some won’t like the different syllable stress for TORQUAY and Talkie, but I did like LOO ROLL and SALERNO. This puzzle seemed at a different level, and I suppose lack of familiarity with a new (?) setter didn’t help with the confidence levels throughout….
It is going to take some time to get into the mojo of Mobo
Although this was a toughie, I rather enjoyed it. At one point, there being references to Eileen and Araucaria, I thought there might be a setter-&-blogger theme…
TORQUAY, LOO ROLL and QUESTION MARK made me grin.
Like Julie in Australia, the parsing of SCROOGE defeated me, so thanks to scchua for the explanation and blog – and thank you Mobo for the entertainment. I look forward to your next one…
Mobo = Monk/(Hobo)Tramp? Look at the left and right columns.
I liked a lot of it, whoever set it. I think Guardian commenters could consider being a bit less brutal with (apparent) newbies, I think. There’s no real need to ruin someone’s day because a free crossword caused you half an hour or so of annoyance.
Way too many went in unparsed for this to be enjoyable, I’m afraid.
Lost heart in the end.
Nevertheless, always nice to see a new setter.
Liked this a lot, and loved the setters/bloggers tribute (together with ONSET & SET UP):
TRAMP, Shed, Araucaria & of course EILEEN (I needed help with the parsing for this).
In 1d I went with an endless ‘quash’ rather than ‘squash’ but it amounts to same thing.
Felt like a Friday, but fair, and there are some neat surfaces (loved the Acrobat & GARIBALDI).
Thanks Mobo and scchua for colourful blog.
I’ll still don’t understand the parsing of 1A (how does the ION bit work?) or 21A (where does the van come into it?)
A lot of these were way too convoluted for me. ROACHES was clever though.
Thanks Mobo and scchua
Not for me I’m afraid. I had question marks against 11 clues – I think that’s a record. Lots of loose definitions and Byzantine wordplay.
I am not sure it is a tribute to Eileen, if you look at the lyrics, and the reason behind them.
Thanks scchua and Mobo. As many others, I needed several explanations, but I enjoyed finishing (except for COME ON, EILEEN, which I had to reveal).
Helen@11 – good spot! That would make sense of
1a & 26a where MARK (Kelmanson) & NEIL (Walker) are hidden.
Enjoyed this encounter with Mobo very much and look forward to the next round. Although tricky in places the clueing was fair albeit Scrooge/ near defeated me. My one disappointment was the use of Gary Glitter in 15D – I for one would be very happy never to hear of this man again. But I have to say the comment by our blogger regarding the aptness of the surface, given the nature of Glitter’s crimes, I found deeply offensive.
Steve69@1 I think it is “belonging to” = IN. The “parts” meaning splits the IN, so O is added to give I-O-N.
Well if ever I needed this blog, it was today. 😀 Really difficult, and just couldn’t get on the same wavelength at all. Filled it all in eventually with some checking. Worn out now.
Couldn’t parse several completely – QUESTION MARK, SET-UP, EILEEN, OFFAL forgot about the Fal) GARIBALDI (definition? and could have done without Gary Glitter). And of course there’s the dodgy homophone in TORQUAY (though I actually don’t mind those, they rather amuse me).
Bit of a setter/blogger theme of course, with Araucaria, Shed, Eileen, Tramp and probably others I haven’t noticed or don’t know in the clues or solutions.
Apologies for any repetitions in this of previous posts.
Thanks to Mobo (I look forward to another one to see if I can do better) and scchua for the much needed explanations.
Good spot Helen @11 (and wynsum @17). You could well be right. They have form for doing this before – as “Trunk” for an FT puzzle on Christmas Eve last year.
Well, I enjoyed it! On first pass of across clues I only had one entry. Then the rest yielded very satisfyingly.
Steve @14 – O (old) parts IN (belonging to) making ION
Van = front, in this case the T of TANKS
Which I think is in the scchua’s blog
Dave@19 and Shirl@22 – thanks re ‘ION’
Shirl – apologies if I’m just being ignorant, but how does VAN = FRONT?
I needed help from google for GK (song Come on Eileen). I also guessed quite a few and tried to parse afterwards but I could not parse or fully parse all of them so thanks to scchua for explaining these:
8ac – I should have remembered OCHE from the other day because it was in another puzzle.
19ac I only got as far as onSET UP
also 26ac, 19d, 20d for which I could see the def but could not parse the clues.
New MUGWUMP (as well as MUG = learn or revise a subject quickly ); garibaldi = blouse.
Thanks, both.
Steve69@23: in the van = in the vanguard = at the front
Gazzh@25 – thanks, never heard of that before!
DuncM @18 Totally agree about Glitter.
Like many of you I guessed rather a lot of these answers, and to my surprise quite a few were correct! But I really needed scchua’s parsing, thank you so much. FOI was trampolinist as the only word for acrobat that made 12 letters, second was Monkey Puzzle and after that the top half slowly revealed itself. Good to see a new setter too! I loved Come on Eileen for the same reasons as Julie in Oz, and question mark was very clever. Who knew garibaldi was a blouse? Much to enjoy, thanks all.
Far too tricksy for me. Got all but 2 answers but I can’t say I enjoyed it. 3dn summed it up for me. The definition is way too convoluted for the solution. Sorry to be a grump!
Thanks scchua for filling in a lot of gaps in my parsing.
Steve69 @23. Van doesn’t refer to a vehicle, but the front of a group, eg the vanguard of an army
Great blog from scchua
This smelt of collaboration from the start-having two former setter both named John(in the clues)it seemed like half the Biggles team(We Johns)
I suspect that Helen @11 could be onto something
I was looking in vain for a J to make up a pangram but I think the V may be also missing
And I hope Eileen pops in soon.
Shame it got raspberries in the Graun thread(“dont criticise what you cant understand”)
My Crossword Dictionary got a right pummelling
Thanks all.
Too tricky for me.
Some unfair comments on the Guardian website. I guess a new setter is perhaps mindful of not setting something too easy to be greeted with an equal amount of derision.
Hopefully Mobo will be back soon, but we can do without references to G.Glitter.
I found this hard and didn’t like it much, agreeing with muffin@15.
For example, TORQUAY. I don’t mind approximate homophones, especially if they are indicated as such, but the clue says otherwise – the clue suggests it is regional (i.e. accurate for some) but as far as I know the talkie pronunciation is used by none. So good effort, bad execution.
Regarding MUGWUMP, the precursor group to the Mamas and Papas was called the Mugwumps. The word is even mentioned in their autobiographical song Creeque Alley.
Thanks Mobo and welcome, whether you’re a new setter or a composite as some seem to think. Glad to see folk here are being kinder than in the Guardian comments. I found this quite tricky in places but not completely intractable, and mostly enjoyable. MUGWUMP was my favourite.
And thanks of course to scchua for the blog.
Gazzh @3 – I only learned that meaning of BUMF from last week’s Carpathian cryptic (#28704) – see that blog for more detail on its origin.
The style of a new setter can often take some adjusting to, and it was certainly so for me here. Without much luck at first in the top half I managed to get a purchase in the SW quadrant – SALERNO (FOI – the opposite of a clue of my own: The town of Salerno, after the earthquake) INSPECTOR, ILLICIT and I was away.
A lot of ingenious clueing (I particularly liked the SCR) rather at the expense of concision – average clue length 7.8 words, well above the conventional ideal ceiling of 7 (where did I get this from?).
I’m afraid I didn’t bother to solve the song (apologies to our beloved blogger) because I had lost interest by then.
I look forward to more from this setter.
Thanks to S&B
Welcome to Mobo; I found this very tricky with many BIFD and parsed later.
There were, though, many clever clues, and I particularly liked ROACHES for the ‘throwing lines’ and TEST PILOT for the ‘controller of Hercules’. I’ll have to remember to have an extra cup of coffee before solving the next Mobo.
Thanks Mobo and scchua.
This was very difficult but I managed to finish it. However, there were too many that I couldn’t parse, and even with the explanations on this blog it was head-scratching. Thanks to Mobo and scchua.
I’m in agreement with those who have chided Guardian commenters for giving a new (?) setter a rough ride. I didn’t find this either easy or smooth but there was plenty of wit and artifice in this and the clueing seems broadly fair. Some of the surfaces were clunky, true, and TORQUAY isn’t likely to win many votes for COTD but clues like GARIBALDI, INSPECTOR, ROACHES and TRAMPOLINIST earned a tick. And, like one or two others, I was astounded to find MUGWUMP lurking somewhere deep in my subconscious.
I do have an issue with FLOTSAM though: whether ‘useless things’ as in the clue or ‘rejected or discarded things’ as in the blog. Flotsam is ‘Goods lost by shipwreck and found floating on the sea’ and distinguished from jetsam which is ‘Goods jettisoned from a ship and washed up on shore’ (both Chambers). The difference being between accident and design and the combined phrase referring to general detritus at sea. scchua is, perhaps, referring to jetsam but neither are referring to flotsam.
Thanks Mobo and scchua
Thanks widdersbel@35, very entertaining and I always find it odd how some unusual words crop up a few times in quick succession and are then not seen again for ages.
Thanks also DrWhatson@34 for the MUGWUMPS band – after a little reseach I think I must know the word from Burroughs’ Naked Lunch though. And I agree re TORQUAY and wonder if anyone here will admit to stressing the same syllables of it and “Talkie”? It took me a long time to be confident enough to enter the answer (not having the Y at the time).
PM@39
FLOTSAM was one of the loose definitions I was thinking of.
All done without aids, but I won’t pretend that I could parse everything. A tough challenge but, ultimately, enjoyable.
The mugwumps were originally Republicans who went over to the democratic candidate in the 1880, the Republican one at the time being notoriously corrupt. The word actually comes from Algonquian, but the definition I’ve heard is of someone on the fence with their mug on one side and their wump on the other.
I think of “attack” as “set on” rather than “set upon.” Now I have to come up with an alternate expression for it and then chop off a bit I wouldn’t have included. Hmph.
PM@39 If you find things floating on the sea or washed up on shore, how do you know whether they jumped or were pushed?
Thanks to Mobo and scchua.
Completely inpenetrable
I actually enjoyed that CW once I got it going, a new setter was always going to throw the kitchen sink at it and that’s no bad thing.
Guardian comments section today has some that at best are ill judged and rude. People, not a fan.
Hope to see more of Mobo
Thanks for the blog scchua, a couple today I was lost at sea with.
Valentine @43: don’t blame me for the definitions 😀 I think that’s why the phrase F&J is used and one rarely encounters the one without the other.
Needed a lot of parsings today and had to reveal the bulk of it. I think the setter got off to a an over-ambitious start with QUESTION MARK which invoked some very complicated wordplay – this I put down in retrospect to an attempt to conjoin our esteemed PostMark in the celebration of contributors to this forum. On the other hand I spot Anto in the fifth row so maybe there is a leaning towards setters (is there a Mark who sets?) (I have a vague idea that PostMark sharpens the occasional HB……) and of course Araucaria is right in there.
I’ll be on my guard when Mobo appears again. Thanks both.
Someone once said that mathematicians don’t necessarily find maths easy, but enjoy how hard it is. The same is true of me with regard to crosswords. I much prefer an invigorating challenge to a virtual write-in that takes ten minutes – but then I have plenty of time on my hands. So thanks, Mobo, more of the same, please.
[If you want some flotsam I’ve got some; if you want some jetsam I can get some]
[Alphalpha @47: whilst it’s lovely to be acknowledged occasionally, I certainly didn’t take 1ac as any reference to me and I am certainly nowhere near the point of contributing to national publications. I’ve only been playing at setting as an amateur for two months 😀 (Which is why I now have an online Chambers from which I seem to be quoting rather frequently!) I think there are, indeed, Marks amongst the setting community. Certainly amongst the official bloggers.]
PostMark@49 & Alphalpha@47 – I think Helen@11 may be right to suggest Mobo is
MARK Kelmanson (MONK) and NEIL Walker (TRAMP) as all four names can be found in the perimeter.
Also lurking: IO (in ‘Question’ & ‘Berlioz’), ANTO, MOO, QuAngOS (this is perhaps a stretch!)
I also liked that ONSET had its LEG BEFORE and SETUPon required its leg removed. OFFal there too.
Maybe a TEST pairing, certainly a TRY-ON
A few interesting ones like the throwing lines in ROACHES and the controller of Hercules, but mostly too much like hard work, and this ended up as a reveal-and-learn exercise. I knew MUGWUMP was a word, but not what it meant, and the GARIBALDI blouse was new to me.
Given the references to other setters and the challenge to Eileen (who didn’t get to blog this), I also wonder if this is some of the usual suspects collborating.
Oh, and I really didn’t like TORQUAY. If anyone says it like that I have yet to meet them.
There were enough gems here to keep me interested in Mobo’s future output but there were a few that smacked of a setter trying just a wee bit too hard to impress.
I was disappointed to have my joint-favourite childhood biscuit associated with the paedo has-been and would like to see Glitter banned
I almost never whinge about stuff I don’t know, but SCR is absolutely unkown to me in very nearly 50 years on the planet, and seems pretty much unguessable to me (similarly JCR which I’ve just looked up. It never even occurred to me to look for an initialism.
Dr. WhatsOn @34, Gazzh @40, gladys @51 – I’d be surprised if you’d spot much difference between me saying “talkie” and “Torquay” – if I say “walkie talkie” it probably comes out closer to “Worquay Torquay”. They probably won’t thank me for saying this now, but I was a pupil at Torquay Boys Grammar School.
Not to everybody’s taste I think. I don’t think that there was an answer that made me smile with pleasant surprise. 11A across probably my favourite as I learnt the proper meaning of the word. (I had thought it was some kind of insult.)
Wow. That was a work-out! FOI was 10d which is an indicator I found this tricky.
But ultimately all fair, a tough challenge but satisfying to complete.
TRAMPOLINIST and SCROOGE were fine clues but my favourite had to be MUGWUMP as mugwumps was the first computer game I ever played, back in 1976!
Thank you and you’re very welcome Mobo and than you to scchua
To clarify my gripe about SCR earlier. I also don’t recall ever heaing the phrase Senion Common Room (or Junior Common Room) – hence the difficulty of getting from the clue to SCR. I’ve not heard of it from either end. Teachers/lecturers hung out in the Staff Room.
SCR and JCR are more a university college thing. My college even had an MCR (middle…)
MarkN @ 56
Teachers/lecturers hung out in the Staff Room. Certainly, but they aren’t the only academics. The SCR is where postgraduate students hang out, while undergraduates had the JCR.
I’ve been out since quite early this morning until now, so, in my rush to get out, , I was left with five question marks regarding parsing, which I might have seen (or not) if I’d had longer to think about them.
I was expecting a lot of comments by the time I got home – and wasn’t disappointed. They’ve made very interesting reading – very well done to Helen @11 and wynsum @17!
As well as my question marks, I had ticks for LEANT ON, BERLIOZ, RISOTTO and SCROOGE – and I could add more, now that I understand them! (gladys @51, I’m quite glad I didn’t get to blog this one – but I look forward to the next one. 😉 )
Many thanks to the clever Mobo duo and to scchua for the explanations.
Simon @58
In my college, postgraduates had the MCR; the SCR was for the dons.
I can usually parse and fill at least a few on even the hardest Grauniad but this was just too obscure. The def of BERLIOZ was just ridiculous.
Stumped by COMEONEILEEN. Thank you, Mobo and scchua.
Valentine @43, thank you for the classic definition of MUGWUMP. However, it wasn’t 1880, when our martyred President, James Garfield, was the Republican nominee, but 1884, when the Republicans ran James G. Blaine, “the continental liar from the State of Maine,” who lost to Grover Cleveland, thanks in part to the Mugwumps. I say this not in defense of the reputation of Garfield, but in defense of the reputation of Arthur Guiterman’s poem, “Education,” of which he is a subject. 🙂
MarkN: so there are people who say TORquay rather than TorQUAY? in that case I withdraw my objections.
Oh my, another setter I’ll have to add to my “no fly” list.
Thanks to schuaa for the much-needed explanations. Found this near-unfathomable today, and the parsing was beyond me. Reduced to putting in the word that “looked right” and hitting “check” to confirm, then moving on, often still none the wiser on the parsing. I note the comment on one example where the wordplay being clumsy, I thought many of them were clumsy, both in wordplay and construction. Some of the surfaces were also needlessly distasteful, but to be fair to a new setter, that’s a common criticism on here. Really didn’t like this!
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned (apologies if anyone did and I missed it) our beloved leader’s description of Jeremy Corbyn as a “mutton-headed, old mugwump”. That was in 2017. Unfortunately, and miraculously, it’s been downhill since then.
The puzzle was impossible for me (I like to get at least one or two), but that’s no criticism. Amazed and impressed that anyone can tackle this stuff. Give me a few decades though.
I like BERLIOZ, now that I get it. Thank you scchua. Great surface. ROACHES also. Both fun clues.
Thanks for the mnemonics Valentine @43 for MUGWUMP, and Quizzy Bob@48 for FLOTSAM
I queried ‘useless goods’ for FLOTSAM until I realised it refers to damaged cargo (amongst other things) resulting from a shipwreck . Of course that could be either flotsam or jetsam, but it doesn’t really matter.
I queried ‘refuse’ for OFFAL, but only because I think it’s a delicacy.
I found Mono’s puzzle tricky to the point of irritating, particularly for one who has not resided in the UK for over fifty years, what with your quangos, oches and Dexys Midnight Runners. Come on guys!
Alastair @6, makes a change from a composer being a barman.
Tough to start, yes, but quite doable with a few crossers. I enjoyed it a lot and liked the disguise used for the definitions in general. As a Graun cryptic solver exclusively, I am familiar with Tramp but not with Monk, so that probably explains most of the apparent oddness in the style.
Favourites were ROACHES, MOORAGE and SCROOGE.
I’d welcome more Mobo offerings. The difficulty level was about right for me.
Thanks, M&S
@61 of course
Crossbar@69 – or a scorer: I really enjoyed the originality of ‘staff work’, which is partly why it was one of my favourites – I was also amused by him fixing boilers, too.
We enjoyed this. We’ve reached the stage of being amazed when we can do more than 50% on a Thursday or Friday 😉 and found most of the clues good fun.
GIven the hostile reactions earlier on this thread to (presumably disapproving) comments on the Guardian’s own thread (which I have not read), I hesitated to post a negative comment about this, and I don’t think I have ever posted a negative appraisal of any puzzle here. I am generally supinely grateful for whatever these ingenious setters provide for us. More recent comments, however, have loosened my tongue, as it were. I found this joyless, humourless, with prolix, sometimes nonsensical surfaces, over-contrived wordplay, and sometimes opaque definitions. I finished it in the early hours, because ‘I’ve started, so I’ll finish’, as Magnus Magnusson used to say on Mastermind. Research by earlier, shrewd commenters suggests that we are not in any danger of bruising the delicate sensibilities of a rookie setter, so I will fearlessly join those giving this a thumbs-down. ‘Pass’ on next mobo.
Thanks for the blog, have been trying not to be negative about puzzles this year. ROACHES was a good clue. I will just note that the Guardian does over-indulge its setters far too often.
gladys @63 I’d personally pronounce Torquay pretty much as “Taw-Key”, but then I’m lazy. There’s almost no emphasis on either half. If there’s a slight bias it’s definitely toward the “Tor” part though. It’s part of the Torbay area, and there absolutely is an emphasis on the “Tor” part of Torbay. It’s all derived from the tors that are in and around Dartmoor and the local area, and the place was originally just called Torre (there’s still an abbey of that name). Also remember – this is Devon – I didn’t pick up an accent before I left, but they do go large on their Rs down there.
Spooner’s catflap@74: I was going to hip hip along but on examination it’s really not that bad. (Ish) QUESTION MARK was inelegant and that set a bad tone. COME ON EILEEN was no better (‘song’ is the definition, impenetrable wordplay). But MONKEY PUZZLE and TRAMPOLINIST were quite good I thought. The problem is that once a theme has been established the solvers have to give way to the setters’ inclination; it’s a real no-win for the intended audience imvho.
Thanks to those expert Ninologists who uncovered the Kelman/Walker indications in the perimeter. If this duo were indeed the setters of this puzzle I am somewhat surprised. There is much enjoyable ingenuity here but I would have expected something more polished from two such master compilers. Bravi, nevertheless.
All good fun for the gentleman solver.
Although alluded to, no one has suggested looking at the last down clue more closely. There must be someone in this “community” who this describes.
I too immediately noticed the names popping up and kept looking, but some of you have spotted many more.
So thanks for the setting effort
Sorry, dyslexic fingers as I meant to add my appreciation to scchua for explaining the bits I couldn’t.
There is nothing “quasi-autonomous” or “non-governmental” about the National Health Service. It is part of the government and fully under its control.
Dear me, this was a bit much. Fussy, complicated, and often obscure. A few to raise a smile – TRAMPOLINIST was delightful – but not a pleasant experience overall.
Andrew @81
Indeed – another very dodgy definition.
Eileen @72. Ah yes, scorer. I couldn’t bring that to mind. BERLIOZ is not my favourite composer. Perhaps he should have stuck to fixing boilers. 😀 I remember going to a screening of Les Troyens from the Met, and not making it to the end.
Phew, took me all day on and off. Really enjoyed the challenge though.
@ muffin and Andrew,
From the Free Dictionary: Quango – an organization that is financed by the government yet acts independently of the government. That sounds exactly what the NHS is and does to me.
phitonelly @86
Mmmm – in what way is the NHS “quasi-autonomous”, or, even more so “non-govermantal”?
Re QUANGOS, this is from a 2010 publication available on parliament.uk –
Quango is not an official term and establishing how many there are depends on the definition used. The Cabinet Office 2009 report on Non-Departmental Public Bodies (NDPBs) found… Staffing and expenditure of NDPBs have increased. They employed 111,000 people in 2009…
However, estimates vary based on the definition used. The Government used a different definition of Arm’s Length Bodies (ALBs), incorporating Executive Agencies, non-Ministerial Departments and executive and advisory NDPBs, in the December 2009 Smarter Government White Paper. It found that 752 ALBs employ over 300,000 people…
The Taxpayers’ Alliance lists 957 ‘semi-autonomous public bodies’ under the remit of the UK Government which it estimates employ 700,000 staff.
Whichever view you take, the NHS is not included – it employs over 1.3 million staff on its own.
If you were to count the NHS as a quango (as per the Free Dictionary def), then arguably you could also include the police or the state education sector.
There were several poor definitions in this cropssword. Although I got it from the very clever wordplay I did not like the plural ROACHES, cockroaches is a plural but the normal plural for the fish is roach. Again easily gettable from the wordplay I did not like the definition for Berlioz either. Surely staves not staff. We regularly enjoy eating offal; I do not regard it as refuse. Again the wordplay was excellent, the definition dodgy. I do not regar the NHS as a QUANGO. Ho are we expected to work out COME ON EILEEN with the definition just song? I have not heard of a garibaldi blouse: again the wordplay was splendid but biscuit might have been a better definition.
@86 Phionelly: I stand corrected. The Health and Social Care Act of 2012 altered the status of the NHS from a government department to “statutorily independent.” So only a non-QUANGO in the days before the Cameron-Clegg coalition.
That was nearly all indecipherable. Good! It’s a joy to try to get the measure of a new setter. Bam of the highest order but I’m looking forward to more Mobo.
I got into this rather late in the day after a tip-off from someone who said it’s a new setter and ‘I like the clueing’.
I therefore had to make time for it and give it a go. It was certainly a new kind if experience, and I found it difficult to make headway. However, I persevered with it and was encouraged by some ingenious and even devious clues in and around the top right corner, including MONKEY PUZZLE. I liked the references to Tramp, Araucaria and Shed. The hardest clue was COME ON EILEEN, which was therefore my last one in.
I had to solve more clues than usual by guessing the answers and then trying to parse them, and in some clues I think the wordplay could have been clearer without giving much away. However, the only clue that didn’t work for me was TORQUAY, although it was clear what the answer had to be.
I would like to thank Mobo (whoever they are!) for the slightly unusual experience this gave me – also scchua for the blog and other solvers for their constructive comments.
Hi again Crossbar @ 84 – not one of mine either but I did like the picture of him moonlighting as a heating engineer and I do love singing ‘The Shepherds’ Farewell’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGBTNlbRbeM
at our choir’s Christmas concerts.
[Eileen @93 et al
I do like the Symphonie Fantastique, but not much else (though there is the amazing Tuba Mirum in the Requiem).
btw I listened to “Compser of the week” on Debussy last week, and I’ve gone right off him – he seems to have been a complete s**t.]
[Eileen @93 it must help being a participant. My voice isn’t up to anything like that.
That’s often the case muffin@94. Probably true for many artists and writers – too fixated on their art to care about the rest of the world. Quite often it’s disappointing hearing one’s favourite actors interviewed.]
muffin@94-I dont care if Debussy farted in lifts-it doesnt alter the fact that L’Apres Midi is a benchmark
And as they said in TPM “it takes two to quango”
I enjoyed this. Found it fairly tough but not impossibly so. Nothing wrong with varying the difficulty level during the week anyway.
BERLIOZ was actually my FOI.
Agree this was a real tough one and I had to come here this morning for parsings I gave up on (QUANGOS and COME ON EILEEN).
The clueing reminded me a lot of David Astle in the SMH/AGE with tricks such as “?” for a definition.
Nice challenge though.
YPM
Several complete guesses, unparsed and confirmed by the check button. I found the wordplay convoluted and several definitions a stretch. Some satisfaction in completing it, but only a couple of really satisfying answers. BERLIOZ was the best of the bunch. MONKEY PUZZLE was easy to guess but I didn’t think much of the wordplay, and that was far from the worst offender.
It’s good to see that some people really enjoyed it!
SCROOGE = near ? and Staff = stave were beyond me but answers guessable.
Thanks both
Revbob @89: from Britannica.com: “staff, also spelled stave, in the notation of Western music, five parallel horizontal lines that, with a clef, indicate the pitch of musical notes.”
Enjoyed it but found some parsing as revealed by blogger rather tenuous. E.g 25 A, 1 D. However I did complete it so there was enough in the clues to.get answers for me at least. I found it overall rather amusing so welcome MOBO
Haven’t read through all of the above comments but surely someone remarked that Mobo was the name of a 1950’s children’s scooter. There were also quite a few disapproving comments on the Guardian site. However, Mrs M and I finally battled our way through it and found it tough but entertaining. I particular liked scrooge which I assembled in kit form from the surface of the clue.
Most new setters can seem hard at first: Vlad for example and Mobo does look promising.
This was tough but there were some good clues. I had three sittings throughout the day and probably parsed about 60% (either before or after) with the crossers helping complete the unparsed clues.
After Helen@11’s comment, I looked at the Guardian comments and was surprised at the, er, heightened emotions of some commenters. Let’s not forget this is The Guardian not . You expect some adventurousness and invention. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t; you don’t know until you try. For me, there were more pluses than minuses. More power to Mobo’s elbow and I look forward to the next offering.
Thanks Mobo and scchua for the help parsing clues.
Helen @11. “…half an hour or so of annoyance”. If only. I’ve been struggling with this since yesterday afternoon, and finally gave up this evening with 26a still blank. Song? No, sorry. Can’t think of any.
Some of the clues, as has been said, had wordplay that only made sense after guessing the answer, which was also difficult because of the looseness of the definitions.
Still, as pdp11 says @105, “there were more pluses than minuses”. Only just, though…
🙂
I’ve never heard “near” as a synonym for miserly. Has anyone else?
David @107
Yes! I have met that meaning of ‘near’ (Chambers has ‘stingy, parsimonious’) a few times in recent years, but only in crosswords. I can remember an instance or two where ‘mean’ in the clue defines NEAR in the answer. You will see this again, I’m sure.
Thanks Alan B. You learn something every day!
I’ve just finished it.
Phew.
Where’d the weekend go?
Anyone who finished this has my respect. Just reading this blog has made my head hurt.
David@107 – me neither. Personally, I prefer puzzles where, if there’s going to obscurity (from my perspective), it’s either in the definition or the wordplay but not both. In 19D (and possibly elsewhere), neither near=miserly nor SCR=senior common room was known to me, which makes it tricky to solve!
But, as I said, I welcome experimentation from setters because it can be a path to a different type of puzzle and/or enjoyment.
pdp11 @112
You make a very good point about what I have always been aware of in crossword clues, namely, the ‘double obscurity’, exactly as you have defined it. Nearly all of the best crosswords do not have them, and that could be the mark of a good setter and/or a good editor.
Two further points to make on this: (1) what is obscure to me may not be obscure to you, so one must allow for that bit of subjectivity; (2) one should allow and be happy to accept a double obscurity in an outstanding clue that delivers a big pay-back if you get it.
Alan B@113 – the setters I especially enjoy do tend to avoid “double obscurity” (I think that should become the official term for the practice 🙂 ).
I also agree with your qualifications: (1) I tend to give setters the benefit of doubt on obscurities and assume they’re gaps in my knowledge; (2) a lot can be forgiven for an outstanding clue!