Guardian Cryptic 28,759 by Brummie

82 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,759 by Brummie”

1. Thanks loonapick and Brummie.

   I quite enjoyed this, answers going in steadily. I found the theme after the event, so it was no help this time.

   I couldn’t parse TIMELESS, but, having seen the explanation, I don’t mind the lack of definition.

2. Hm. 19d. Reminds me of another clue from years ago.
   E. (13)
   Or gegs? (9,4)

3. I enjoyed this a lot, including TIMELESS which I thought rather clever; also UNBOSOM, SASSENACHS and NOT EVER. Thanks to B & l.

4. I found this relatively straightforward, but with some interesting devices. The second part of ARTHUR held me up a bit, as my first thought was ARTIST, which didn’t produce an obvious biblical reference. I then enjoyed thinking about the theme, which took me back to secondary school English studies.
   I was happy with TIMELESS – I think paint can be thought of like that (in fact one company has a range called that), but not ‘tailless’.
   Thanks to Brummie and loonapick.

5. or gegs? and its ilk were discussed in a Guardian Crossword blog

6. The wordplay in SALESMAN cleverly also combines a reference to ‘The CRUCIBLE’, of course. I realise I didn’t go back and parse TIMELESS now, so thanks to Loonapick for the explanation. Found this steady going but after a confident start with VIRGO I couldn’t solve any of the across clues until I reached BILATERAL, so I needed the down clues to give me some crossers to make more substantial progress, I liked SASSENACHS. Thanks to Brummie and Loonapick

7. Agree that TIMELESS lacks a definition. I’m not a fan unlike others. I missed the MILLER theme as usual.
   Favourite was SASSENACHS.

8. Very pleasant indeed. Unusually, a little of the Pasqualian selcouthness apparent; but crossers and straightforward clueing delivered TOPE and IBERIS easily. Unlike our esteemed blogger, I (slightly) enjoyed TIMELESS since it produced the only pdm! Many thanks Brummie and loonapick

9. Thanks Brummie and loonapick. Re 18 down: If PAINT loses the T (short for ‘time’) it is T(ime)LESS, result PAIN

10. I must be in a grumpy mood this morning. I enjoyed the crossword, but I don’t like a clue without a definition even if the wordplay is clever. And it goes to show that what is obvious to some is not so to others. Arthur Miller means little to me, and though after loonapick’s hint I vaguely recognised the name as a playwright, I wouldn’t have connected him with anything else in the grid.
    Despite my grumpiness, thanks still due to Brummie and loonapick

11. I’ve been to 29D LEEK quite often (most recently between the two rounds of the French presidential election) but hesitated to ink it in as I never thought of it as being IN the Peak District. Near enough, I suppose. Good pubs, too.

12. I was thinking “snooker” with VIRGO and CRUCIBLE, until the more literary theme became clear. How many snooker players have crosswordifiable names?

13. As three of my first answers were SALESMAN, DEATH and CRUCIBLE the theme jumped out at me (for a change). The parsing of TIMELESS seems so reasonable in retrospect but I couldn’t see it at all.
    Thanks to Brummie and loonapick.

14. I also enjoyed this, with quite a quick solve (for me) although like others I needed crossers for many of the clues. But I did not like the pair UNBID and UNBOSOM as words, no-one uses them, and I couldn’t parse 19d so thanks to loonapick. And I failed to spot the theme until the very end! Thanks Brummie.

15. Good theme, even if I missed some thematic references. Never heard of IBERIS as a ‘tufty’ plant or TOPE for ‘Small shark’, though wordplay was helpful for latter in particular. I was itching to put in “Sumeria” for 15a but fortunately couldn’t fit the ‘song’ in.

    Last in by a long shot was TIMELESS. I took it to be one of those rare clues with the def, ‘this’, in the middle; it sure fooled me for a while.

    Thanks to Brummie and loonapick

16. I was thinking snooker as well Shirl @ 12 with Mick PRICE as well, but twigged the real theme towards the end. I thought TIMELESS was good. Favourites were AUBERGINE and ARCHIMEDES.

    Ta Brummie & loonapick

17. I found this mostly straightforward, but with a few that were not so easy. I’d worked out that it (probably) could only be Timeless at 19 D, but I couldn’t see why. I kept thinking of the fact that there is a Dulux paint called Timeless. But that was/is clearly irrelevant. Anyway, some enjoyable clues, especially 14 D Sassenachs… With thanks to Brummie and loonapick.

18. I confidently entered DETAILED for TIMELESS, with the idea that busy decoration might be painful to look at to add to the no t on paint idea. I’m not sure where I stand on the debate about whether alternative answers that are ruled out by crossers are a bad thing. I enjoyed this puzzle and its theme, though I unnecessarily racked my brains for a Miller heroine for TOUGHNESS.

19. I drew a blank on the first eight clues across the top row which was disconcerting so VIRGO came as some relief. The first pass was slow to reveal and I only got going in the bottom half and then worked my way back up via ARCHIMEDES and SASSENACHS – which is not a combo you come across very often in life.

    I’m aware of but have never been immersed in the theme so didn’t spot it as I solved but it’s neatly done. Highlights included HOLST, NOT EVER, DIALECT, BILATERAL, CRUCIBLE, ARCHIMEDES and SASSENACHS. Very satisfying to look up TOPE in Chambers with crossed fingers (hence several typos) and discover it is, indeed, a small shark.

    This is a TIMELESS post. Or, at least, it was …

    Thanks Brummie and loonapick

20. Didn’t see the theme, of course.
    Didn’t parse TIMELESS, but I like it now you’ve explained loonapick.
    Didn’t know ARTHUR was a comedy film but supposed it must be.
    Didn’t know IBERIS, or TOPE to mean shark, but getable, although I did try tipe first for the shark. (tip=top=peak)
    Lots of “didn’t”s there, aren’t there?
    But filled it all in so fair enough 🙂

    Thanks Brummie and loonapick

21. ARTHUR was supposed to be a comedy film but I gave it a miss in spite of liking Dud.
    However I would like to see the MISFITS with Montgomery Clift

22. Enjoyable puzzle, tough in places but not too difficult overall apart from several parsings. Solved the NE corner last.

    Liked TOUGHNESS, SASSENACHS (I learnt this via Outlander TV series); MISFITS; ARCHIMEDES, TIMELESS.

    I did not parse 7d MILLER. I was thinking of the book Daisy Miller by Henry James but was stuck how to parse the rest.

    New: TOPE = a small greyish slender-bodied shark; IBERIS plant; LEEK = Peak District town.

    Thanks, both.

    I missed seeing the theme!

23. Much more fun than Brummie sometimes is. Isn’t TIMELESS some sort of reverse clue as definition thingamajig? It made me laugh out loud and was my LOI. Completely missed the them so no change there

    LEEK is of course familiar to all HMHB fans from the lyric “But the beak in LEEK is weak” in The Light at the End of the Tunnel

24. Fairly steady solve (I only know my times as I use the app and it tells me), but the theme sailed over my head, even after seeing Anthony Sher in DEATH of a SALESMAN at the National, and knowing the CRUCIBLE from radio adaptations. Duh.

    TIMELESS and MILLER were the last two in, and there the theme would have helped.

    Thanks to Brummie and loonapick for the blog.

25. Got there in the end. For the first time I spotted the theme and it helped me get MILLER. Needed it too as I didn’t know Daisy Miller (Googled to confirm – also TOPE and IBERIS. Ido like to learn new words this way, where the parsing leads you to the answer.) TIMELESS was my LOI. Once I got it, I was confident it was the right answer, and didn’t notice there was no definition as such.

26. A DNF for me not least because of 19dn which I couldn’t see at all. Although it’s obvious when pointed out. Leek is not in the Peak National Park but sitting just outside, it’s sometimes referred to as The Gateway to the Peak District.
    Thanks to Brummie and loonapick.

27. Just a query, but shouldn’t “without any prompting” be unbidden. Are unbidden and unbid both present participles?

28. I really enjoyed this puzzle, with its various threads. Like loonapick, I appreciate a range of GK.

    I particularly liked the allusive wordplay in 4dn, pointed out by Tomsdad and, similarly in 4dn, especially since I’d initialIy been dismissive of the write-in, ‘Scientist from Syracuse’, before looking at the rest of the clue – very clever.
    I can’t see the word PETRA without thinking ‘rose-red city, half as old as time, so TIMELESS struck a chord, too – though that’s just me being fanciful again.

    Many thanks to Brummie for the fun and loonapick for a fine blog.

29. Thanks loonapick & Brummie. I enjoyed this overall – I always enjoy Brummie and the kind of GK he relies on is usually stuff I know so I never have wavelength problems with him… but count me among those not entirely satisfied with the clue for TIMELESS.

    LOI was MILLER, which was annoying, because I spotted the theme early with CRUCIBLE and ARTHUR, and the reference to Salem, so made a mental note to look out for a MILLER somewhere in the grid… then promptly forgot. Doh!

30. nicbach @27, Chambers gives “unbidden (adj)” as one of the definitions of “unbid (adj)”.

31. Eileen@28 Did you think the wordplay for ARCHIMEDES was referring to View from a Bridge?

32. Had no idea there was a theme!

    Didn’t like TIMELESS – the word has no connection with paint. Also don’t like ‘no good’ to remove only one of multiple Gs, but I accept the ship has probably sailed on that.

    Did like HOLST, VIRGO, ARCHIMEDES, and plenty of others. Got LEEK despite not really knowing where it is!

    Thanks Brummie and loonapick

33. Only know James’s Turn of the Screw, so daisy meant nothing, and hadn’t yet sussed the theme, so Miller was a bung and pray. Crucible, Death and Salesman made it clear, but they’re the only two I know, so not much help. Did vaguely remember Dud as Arthur though, as well as seeing Ben Hur starring the future NRA president. So, nice puzzle, plenty of stimulus, thanks both.

34. Thanks Brummie and loonapick, that was fun. Only saw the theme on completion but it still provided a pdm, just not in time to be of assistance. Especially liked both 4d & 6d.

    I guess ‘A View from the Bridge’ for ARCHIMEDES might have been the Strait of Messina rather than Brooklyn. But only now is a bridge over the Strait a strong possibility.

35. Got KEEL okay from wordplay because I didn’t know or have a quibble about the location of the Peak District town.
    Shouldn’t the auberge in AUBERGINE be inndicated? 🙂
    Equally the language/DIALECT of SASSENACHS?
    Surprised there haven’t been comments about Che, the Latin American hero, in ACHES. Very broad, there are many, Simon Bolivar for one, but a nice change from ‘revolutionary’ ( and therefore without the usual misdirection).
    Nice to see TOPE clued as a shark, for a change.

    Got the feeling that Brummie might have thought the MILLER references were too obvious and he was sending us off on a hunt with the non themed words so as to distract us from the theme. Didn’t know the Henry James Daisy Mill, but clear from wordplay. Did wonder if ‘works’ might have been doing a bit of double duty.

    Thanks loonapick for the education.

36. Pleasant solve where I got distracted by some of the names/references, only seeing the theme at the end when the LOI, MILLER popped up.

    I liked SENT DOWN for the misleading use of broadcast and SASSENACHS for the English audacity, although SASS in the dictionaries is given as N. American.

    Thanks Brummie and loonapick.

37. Actually, the more I think about TIMELESS, the more I like it – it’s essentially an &lit pure wordplay clue, ie the wordplay is the definition.

    A reverse-engineering trick, as bodycheetah @23 says, and kind of an in-joke for regular crossword solvers – we see “timeless” used in clues often enough to indicate removing the letter T.

38. Sam Smith is/was a brewer
    Sam Cook was a singer
    But this alerted me to a fillum I must have missed-Montgomery Clift wouldnt have batted an eyelid to Mrs Miller’s charms-but I want to see it
    Thanks Brum for some culture

39. I think the clue for 8/3d may be part of the ARTHUR MILLER theme. Miller’s son, Daniel, was born with DOWN Syndrome. His mother wanted to care for him at home, but Arthur insisted he should be ‘put away’, and Daniel was SENT first to a home in New York, then to Southbury Training School in Connecticut (not far from Valentine, I think?), which in the 70s was “not a place you would want your dog to live”. For nearly four decades Miller never publicly acknowledged his son’s existence.

    This article is a fascinating read – and I would strongly recommend reading it to the very end, because the picture it paints of what may have been going on in Arthur Miller’s head gets more interesting and complex, and the last paragraph is extraordinary and uplifting.

    If the DOWN reference was intentional, and I very much think it was, then bravo to Brummie for not shying away from a problematic part of Miller’s life and character, alongside all his achievements.

    And bravo also for helping to raise awareness of the contribution that people with Down Syndrome make to our lives, and sadly also of the instances of personal and institutional cruelty which many are still subjected to.

    Thanks Brummie and loonapick.

40. essexboy Thanks for the article. Very interesting.

41. My thanks, too, essexboy.

42. eb @39, great bit of humanitarian investigative journalism. Some keywords are Miller, Down’s and Day-Lewis.

43. copmus@38
    I was thinking of the singer Sam Smith who was born in 1992
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Smith
    but maybe I was thinking of someone too recent/contemporary?

44. Completely missed the theme (as usual), so had FILLER in 7d (apparently both daisies and US series episodes can be such), but clearly wrong having now seen the blog. D’oh!

    Fun puzzle and v helpful blog. Thanks both.

45. Eileen @28 you’re clearly more eruditer than wot I am – my first thought on seeing PETRA was the Blue Peter dog 🙂

46. Missed the theme completely, even though I’m a bit of a fan…

    Highly enjoyable puzzle with SALESMAN the stand-out for me.

    I had no problem with TIMELESS. As has been pointed out, definitionless clues are not unheard of. The issue is whether the clue you’re given gets you to the solution, and in this case it seems most on here got it.

    And thank goodness for a more or less present day pop culture reference rather than the usual 50s/60s/70s ones.

    Thanks Brummie and loonapick

47. [And thank you, essexboy @39, for the link – as you say, a fascinating read.]

48. I spotted the theme for once, but only at the end, and I didn’t get MISFITS or PRICE — never having heard of one, and barely of the other.

    Will somebody please explain GEGS? or E?

    Never heard of TOPE sharks or the town of LEEK, but I have heard of keels, so that one went in.

    nicbach@27 Unbidden isn’t a present participle, but a past one. A present participle would be “unbidding.” I’m not convinced UNBID is a word at all.

    Had to google ARTHUR to find out who Dud was. Now I think I remember Dudley Moore as a very well-cast Father Brown in a television series long ago.

    I have to leave before I finish reading the blog, so I’ll post to those who have written as far as 38. Thanks, Burmmie for puzzle and theme (I’m guessing that Americans have a better shot at it than others) and loonapick for the very helpful blog.

49. Nice puzzle today. Thanks both.

    Valentine@48: GEGS (9,4) is an old example of a cryptic clue (usually , I think, offered to tickle the ulnar nerve of the non-participant). The answer is Scrambled Eggs.

    I have no idea what E. (13) could be (although I notice an intruding full stop..).

50. One of my favourite clues for many years (before I became aware of Ximenean restrictions) was:
    Toment (8) – and it didn’t bother me that there was no definition. The compiler of that crossword was notoriously non-Ximenean.

51. Valentine @48.

    There is also:

    ABCDEFGPQRSTUVWXYZ (3)

52. I never look for and therefore seldom spot a theme and today was no exception. I originally had DETAILED at 19D and then plumped for TAILLESS which was only slightly more helpful. So I never found the MISFITS. I’ve never heard of PETRA and without that SASSENACHS just would not appear. So, beaten by five, which is a pretty comprehensive mugging by our setter. Thanks to our blogger for enlightenment. Now about to Google Petra …

53. … and now see why I’ve never heard of it. It’s in one of the areas of the world which holds no fascination for me at all. No idea why that is, but it just is. Same for South America – never been there, no desire to go there, no real interest on what’s happening there and no particular reason for any of those things. Strange, because I’m a keen traveller and pretty curious about places I visit and the people who live there. I guess we can’t take in the whole world.

54. Ah.
    Despite having been to Petra, my first thought was: “A rose-red city, half as Golders Green” from “Balham: Gateway to the South” (although I see the link has it as “gold as green”; I came upon it as “Golders Green” in one of the books produced from “Quote Unquote”).

    https://lproven.livejournal.com/241337.html

    I guessed the theme, when we were searching for it post-completion, as “Marilyn Monroe” from “Misfits”, “Arthur” and “Miller”, but the erudite Mr SR immediately pointed out “Crucible”. Huh.

55. Thanks Brummie for the great clues — TIMELESS was at the top of my list; others included HOLST, DIALECT, MISFITS, TOUGHNESS, and SALESMAN. I did use the check button for my last few and I didn’t think to look for a theme (and it’s one I would have seen had I bothered to take the extra step.) Thanks loonapick for the blog.

56. Spent ages starting at LOI TIMELESS, thinking surely nothing else fits there, but without a definition it is tough to BIFD. When a word search confirmed that nothing else fits, the penny of course dropped straight away. Very nice.

    Other than that, spent far too long trying to work out how MARKE could fit in 15a. What do you mean, there are other singing Smiths?

57. SR @54: how utterly apt that you should be one to comment on Petra, given your moniker

58. Thanks Brummie and loonapick
    My first (and, for some time, only) thought for the singing Smith was Patti, which didn’t help at all, of course.
    StoneRose @54 – that quote jumped into my mind too, and I was going to post it, but you got in first!
    No theme, naturally.

59. essexboy@39 – thank you for the link, a remarkable tale & yes, the last paragraph is very poignant.

60. TIMELESS was my favourite in what was a very enjoyable puzzle. As far as I’m concerned there are no rules, only what works and provides satisfaction when discovered, or even, as in this case, a smile. Thanks Brummie and loonapick.

61. [Fiery Jack @56. I don’t think anyone has ever seriously accused Mark E Smith of singing. The nearest in the Wiki article would be ” sing-slurred”!]

    [michelle @43. I think copmus @38 was having a little joke. There is a brewery known as Sam Smiths, but this is no more relevant to the clue for SAMARIA than Sam Cooke.]

62. FJ @56 and “Live at the Witch Trials” would have linked neatly to SALEM. Is there a hidden theme? Probably not

63. Thanks for the blog, always good to see Brummie. There was a theme ?
    LEEK is the Queen of the Moorlands, far superior to the Peak District. It has a nearby lake named after Mr Kipling.

64. Did anyone else try CAPE for 28d? It seems that some fish-sellers are trying to rebrand spiny dogfish as the Cape Shark.

    [Apparently it used to be called “rock salmon” but that has been banned. I remember the vicar in Barbara Pym’s An Unsuitable Attachment looking at rock salmon for fish and chips, remarking that it was supposed to be lower quality but sounded nicer.]

65. [Just in case anyone was tempted to take Roz @63 seriously, here’s a link to a Wiki piece on Rudyard Lake, which was constructed in the 18th century, just a few dozen years before the birth of Rudyard Kipling.]

66. [Thanks Roz @63/sh @65. It looks like an exceedingly good lake.]

67. [It was actually the other way round but I am not sure if that story is true. ]

68. [eb @66: deliciously witty. Leek is, of course, within a cherry toss of Bakewell which just puts the icing on the cake…]

69. [essexboy@39 if you’re still around, thank you for the article. A tribute to Daniel Miller for surmounting what must have been a horrible childhood. How ever did you find it?

    Yes, Southbury is about 45 minutes from my house, and I know somebody who lives there. He lives near Poverty Road, which must have a story behind it.]

70. Valentine@48, Alphalpah@49,

    As nobody seems to have answered you (apologies if I missed someone doing so)

    E (13) is senselessness. The wordplay is SENSE minus NESS leaving just the letter E. Cryptic clue or dingbat? Many years on the jury is still out, so the decision is yours.

    Loonapick@51 I hadn’t seen that in before, clever but derivative perhaps.

    LOL@EB@66

    Thanks loonapick and Brummie

71. Bloody autocorrupt!

    I hadn’t seen that ONE before…

72. [Thanks Valentine @69, and to others who commented on the Daniel Miller article. Yes, I thought it must be in your neck of the woods; apparently the Miller family lived in Roxbury.]

73. Ta Blah

74. I stand [self-]corrected.Just by chance we had a zoom tonight with family members in Leek, and for them it IS in the Peak District.

75. [Roz @67. It’s right there in the Wiki article I linked to: “Because of the accessibility brought by the railway stations, daytrippers and tourists began visiting the lake. Visitors included John Lockwood Kipling and Alice Macdonald, the parents of Rudyard Kipling, who met there on a trip from Burslem. They liked the place so much they named their son after it.” The village of Rudyard is in the Domesday Book, and the lake – constructed following an act of parliament dated 1797 – takes its name from the village. The author of Just So Stories didn’t arrive until 1865.]

76. [eb@72 I hadn’t realized that Roxbury was a town in my state, though I had noticed it’s a street in my neighborhood. It’s in Litchfield County, the northwest corner of CT where the rich New Yorkers have their summer places. South of it is Fairfield County, the SW corner, where the rich New Yorkers have their barely-out-of-state businesses or palatial residences.]

77. blaise@74 please ask your family to resist propaganda from the Peak District trying to claim this wonderful town. Leek is in the Staffordshire Moorlands and always will be. Derbyshire can P off.

78. Sheffield hatter@75 many thanks for actually copying your link so I could read it. I have heard this story many times but many locals also say it is an urban myth.
    Anyone tempted to visit LEEK , the Summer Solstice is a good time for the rare DOUBLE sunset.

79. Again, a day late to the party, but I just wanted to say thank you to Brummie for all the fun I had with this puzzle. The theme was right up my alley as I taught a lot of Arthur Miller plays back in my days of English teaching. Lots of ticks for enjoyable clues. A couple of new learnings for me too along the way (e.g. 5d IBERIS and 28d TOPE). Thanks also to loonapick for explaining a couple I didn’t parse fully.

80. Re the Petra solution, not to mention 19d, I was reminded of the parody of its description as found in the poem by William Plomer, The Playboy of the Demi-World

    Aloft in Heavenly Mansions, Doubleyou One —
    Just Mayfair flats, but certainly sublime —
    You’ll find the abode of D’Arcy Honeybunn,
    A rose-red sissy half as old as time.

    Therefor not quite timeless.

81. Thanks Brummie and loonapick. No one else has mentioned ‘auberge’ not having a foreign word indicator, so I suppose people now consider it an English word?

82. Anyone else have TAILLESS for TIMELESS? Just as good an answer, seems to me.

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