Guardian Cryptic 28,768 by Paul

by

Tricky to parse in places, despite a mostly quick solve. Favourites were 26ac, 7dn, 9dn, and 15dn. Thanks to Paul.

 

ACROSS
1, 13 BANG FOR ONE’S BUCK
Value for money, deer hunter’s rifle shot? (4,3,4,4)
BANG as a “rifle shot” when hunting a BUCK=”deer”
5 ALABAMA
A dogma, perhaps, surrounding a US state (7)
A + LABMA around A

LABMA given by splitting up “dog / ma” so LAB (labrador, “dog”) + MA
10
See 28
11
See 12
12, 23, 11 PUT THE CAT AMONG THE PIGEONS
Cause alarm, as I’ve done with Du Tompes? (3,3,3,5,3,7)
‘dupe’=’pigeon’, someone who is the victim of a deception

“Du Tompes” is ‘Tom’=CAT, put inside/among ‘Dupes’=PIGEONS

…I initially thought SET instead of PUT
13
See 1
14 BABY TOOTH
Finally, adult and a boy both playing part of first set (4,5)
anagram/”playing” of (t a boy both)*, with the first ‘t’ coming from adul-T
16, 27 PLUMB LINE
Brief flash in long cloud, measure dropping straight down (9)
BLIN-g=”Brief flash” inside PLUME=”long cloud”

bling=flash in the sense of ostentatious style

edit – Joseph Keith Morgan, Sagittarius and others in comments have pointed out BLIN-k for “Brief flash”
17 STOUT
Drink way off (5)
ST (street, “way”) + OUT=”off”
19 SLOPPY JOE
Top president who’s become careless? (6,3)
definition: a sloppy joe is a type of sweater

JOE [Biden]=”president”, SLOPPY=”careless”
23
See 12
24 MOBILE
Phone somewhere in 5 (6)
second definition: a city in ALABAMA=5ac
26 GOODNESS ME
My attempt done, mess needs sorting out (8,2)
definition: “My” as an interjection

GO=”attempt” + anagram/”sorting out” of (done mess)*
27
See 16
28, 29, 10 NEITHER FISH NOR FOWL
Hard to say what is unable to swim and fly? (7,4,3,4)
neither fish (able to swim) nor fowl (able to fly)
29
See 28
DOWN
2 A CORUÑA
Source of mighty growth around university, a Spanish city (1,6)
ACORN=”Source of mighty growth” around U (university) + A
3 GILET
Sweetheart wearing golden jacket (5)
“Sweetheart” split to give ‘heart’/centre of sw-E-et, inside GILT=”golden”
4 ON THE GO
Busy working but drinking, say (2,3,2)
ON=”working” + THO=tho’=though=”but”, around/”drinking” EG=e.g.=”say”
6 LOITER
Idle hands grabbing old tie, lazily (6)
definition: “Idle” as a verb

L and R (left and right, “hands”), around O (old) plus anagram/”lazily” of (tie)*
7 BEER BELLY
Worker on call in remarkably gutless corporation (4,5)
definition: “corporation” meaning a large belly

BEE=”Worker”, on BELL=”call” inside R-emarkabl-Y “gutless” without its inside letters
8 MINICAM
Note about first of Colts, a shooter (7)
MINIM=musical “Note” around C-olts + A
9 GERONTOLOGIST
Elderly student spoiling gigolos rotten (13)
anagram/”spoiling” of (gigolos rotten)*
15 YOU SAID IT
America and African dictator brought into play after revolution, certainly! (3,4,2)
USA=”America” + IDI [Amin]=”African dictator”, inside TOY=”play” reversed/”after revolution”
18 TEA ROSE
Flower that’s gold held up by kid (3,4)
OR=”gold” reversed/”up” inside TEASE=”kid”
20 POMPEII
Italian tourist destination in Colosseum ultimately saved by the last John Paul? (7)
[Colosseu]-M inside POPE [John Paul] II
21 ORLANDO
Wheels covering first of rough terrain in US city (7)
OO=two circles=”Wheels” around R-ough + LAND=”terrain”
22 COHERE
Stick gas in middle (6)
HE (Helium, “gas”) inside CORE=”middle”
25 BELCH
Expression of postprandial satisfaction for Shakespearean character (5)
“postprandial” means after a meal

Sir Toby BELCH is in Twelfth Night

69 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,768 by Paul”

  2. Thanks Paul and manehi
    Well, I completed the grid, but several unparsed. Long ones mostly went in from definition and crossers. I got ALABAMA from MOBILE rather than the other way round.
    I liked BEER BELLY and POMPEII.

  3. Thanks for parsing PLUMBLINE. I got sidetracked by PINE = long and couldn’t make sense of it.

  4. In Plumbline (which I think is usually two words) I’d assumed the short flash was a Blin(k). Most enjoyable crossword; particular thanks to Manehi for parsing Sloppy Joe

  5. Yaay – I have managed a whole week of completed Guardian crosswords. I needed a search to confirm a couple (A CORUNA & MOBILE).

    As is usual for a Paul crossword for me, got a few in on the first pass, then a few more, then got absolutely stuck. Went away and came back to it, and it gave in with just enough resistance to let me feel pleased with myself.

  6. It’s always a bit annoying when the on-line version contains a non-standard character. 2d actually had Ñ rather than an ordinary N.

  7. I thought the same JKM @1. I liked this a lot, even with having to shift around the grid. I got (SET) PUT THE CAT AMONG THE PIGEONS from the definition and only twigged the parsing later. Among others, I particularly liked A CORUNA, LOITER, MINICAM, GOODNESS ME, BEER BELLY, PLUMBLINE and BABY TOOTH.

    Ta Paul & manehi

  11. Fastest I’ve ever completed a Paul puzzle but needed the blog for parsing ALABAMA and PLUMB LINE.

    Loved the cat in the pigeons and GOODNESS ME. Good fun but lacked Paul’s usual knottiness.

    Thanks Paul and manehi

  12. I parsed 16,27 as BLIN(k). Came here as I couldn’t parse YOU SAID IT or ON THE GO.
    On the newspaper app, the check button is rejecting A CORUNA, it keeps rejecting the N, but that has to be it from the parsing. (It means I can’t get a check saying I’ve finished)

  13. Heavens, that was interesting. I was getting nowhere until I got GERONTOLOGIST, and then it very gradually fell into place.
    The parsing of ALABAMA eluded me for ages, but it was a lol when it clicked, and is now my favourite.
    The CAT & PIGEONS took a while to parse too, but that seems a little clunky. I mean Du Tompes isn’t anything, is it?
    PLUMBLINE gave me the most trouble parsing, but now I wonder why. I thought bling too, but maybe blink is better JKM@1.
    The shooter/Colt combo in MINICAM was great misdirection.
    COHERE clue very neat.
    All in all, I enjoyed it a lot. I guess others may not like the solutions that jump all over the grid, but I rather like the jigsaw feel of them. So today I am a happy bunny.

    Thanks Paul and manehi

  14. Re 2d: Treating the Spanish ñ (ene) as the same n (ene) would seem strange to Spanish speakers as they are considered separate letters in the Spanish alphabet.
    Thus it is important not to confuse año (year) with ano (anus).
    It’s unfortunate that this possible source of confusión crossed with another in 12 ac, where SET would be just as correct as PUT.
    Thanks Paul and manehi

  15. As is often the way with a Paul puzzle, at first sight this felt almost impenetrable, with those multi word solutions required. But found my way in through the anagrams for the (almost opposite ends of the human life cycle) BABY TOOTH and GERONTOLOGIST. Thereafter things slipped in fairly pleasingly, though I had rather impulsively inserted Crash Land instead of PLUMB LINE early on. Couldn’t quite parse YOU SAID IT, so thanks for the clarity there, Manehi. COTD for me, with an accompanying chortle, was BEER BELLY. Had me thinking – I wonder how ex footballer Paul “Gazza” Gascoigne’s erstehile friend Jimmy “Five Bellies” Gardner got his nickname. One beer belly must surely be quite enough. Thanks, Paul, for the usual entertainment….

  16. Managed to finish this quite quickly but annoyed about the N in Coruna as i don’t have a Spanish keyboard installed on my iPhone ! Thanks to Paul and manehi.

  17. I don’t think there’s any good way to treat words like 2d in a crossword – in this case the given answer is correct (if confusing for solvers who don’t expect to find an Ñ in an English crossword) but the parsing gives A CORUNA, which is wrong, as Ñ and N are different letters.

    Sloppy Joe rang a bell but I didn’t think about it too much – I realised later that I had it confused with Pizza Express’s Sloppy Giuseppe.

  18. That was, I think, Paul pretty near his best, even though, as Crossbar @13 points out, “Du Tompes” isn’t a thing. The nearest to a Paul-ism being BELCH, the John referring to pope, not poop, and a flower actually being a flower. How much misdirection can you take?
    I assumed SLOPPY JOE was the pizza topping commonly referred to as a Sloppy Giuseppe, derived from the Sloppy Joe sandwich, “a sandwich consisting of ground beef, onions, tomato sauce or ketchup, Worcestershire sauce, and other seasonings, served on a hamburger bun” according to Wikipedia. (I have learned my lesson. I’m not even attempting to give the Wikipedia link).
    Both BANG FOR ONE’S/YOUR BUCK and PUT/SET THE CAT AMONG THE PIGEONS required the crossers, and that is a pity because it would have been all too easy to put in SET and make 2d impossible to solve.
    Particularly liked GOODNESS ME, BEER BELLY, YOU SAID IT, ORLANDO.
    Thanks to Paul and manehi.

  19. I too thought blin[k], like Sagit @4 and others, but was too dim to get the mighty oak from the acorn, so 2d was a dnf via guess and check. Some nice early associations, like sloppy Joe … haven’t heard that since, what, late ’50s early ’60s? (girls with heavy eye makeup, sort of proto-emo look). And Mobile, Al. evoked His Nobel Bobness (Oh, mama, can this really be the end …?). Good one Paul, and thx manehi.

  20. [SimoninBxl@16 Do you need a Spanish keyboard? On my android phone I just hold my finger on the n a little longer, and it gives me the option of ñ and ?. Course, they might not come out correctly here. ]

  21. Set instead of put would not have occurred to me. They seem to me to be equivalent in US English but not UK English.

    I’ve never come across A CORUÑA instead of La Coruna before.
    Only a quiblet really, but you can’t have it both ways; if the solution insists on the tilde then the clue is wrong because the n in acorn doesn’t have one.
    I couldn’t parse it anyway, having fixated on growth=corn.

  23. I managed to complete 2D (on the web version) by searching “n tilde” on Wikipedia and copying and pasting from there. Given that most solvers will never have typed a ‘Ñ’ in their lives it seems harsh to demand it, but otherwise this was an excellent crossword.

  25. As I do the crossword in the paper, I hadn’t realised the problem with n / ñ
    I don’t think we should be expected to enter anything outside the English alphabet. We don’t normally put in French accents do we? Née etc?

  26. Thanks manehi for the bling and others for the blink, both of which evaded my thought processes, but I got a lot of enjoyment from the puzzle. Presumably we would anglicise Coruna thus, in a similar fashion to dropping the umlaut on Germanic place names without inserting a following “e” so I reckon it is OK. That would have been a google had Villa not played them some years back. Thanks Paul.

  28. I’m another who had Bling rather than Blink but the BRB supports the latter better. Like Neill97 @3 I also got sidetracked by Pine until the penny dropped.
    You had “Set” instead of “Put” manehi. My similar one was the usual quandry of whether it’s Your or Ones in BANG FOR ONES BUCK both of which are only resolved by the crossers which is slightly disappointing. I think that whenever I’ve used the phrase BFOB I’ve always used “your” instead of “ones” but then maybe I’m not posh enough. 😉
    I did like the Lab/Ma for DogMa in ALABAMA which reminded me of the old joke about the dead duck taken to the Vet.
    The tilde stuff about A Coruna just gives me one more reason not to use a phone app and just print out the pdf. That way I can also see the whole crossword at one glance. Isn’t technology marvellous. 😉 🙂 🙂
    Favourites were GOODNESS ME and P.T.C.A.T.PIGEONS and I don’t care that Du Tompes isn’t a thing. It’s near enough to L’air Du Temps (the current trend) which is my wife’s (and my) favourite fragrance. Maybe it’s fashionable at the moment to P.T.C.A.T.P.

  29. Didn’t even notice that my 5yo android phone automatically put the diacritic above the n in A Corona (In the grid, but not here).

  31. Strangely, one of the few places I wasn’t stuck with the Memphis blues again was 24ac. I SET the cat among the pigeons and though BANG FOR YOUR BUCK more colloquial than ONES. I was another with a CORN for a growth in 2 down and wondered where the mighty came in. I would guess the pizza topping is derived from the loose jumper. Thanks to Paul and manehi.

  32. I saw the cat straight away, and knew A Coruna and Mobile so I raced through until only 28, 29, 10 remained. I just couldn’t see this, but showed it to my non-cruciverbalist wife who, annoyingly, saw it immediately.

  33. Lovely puzzle. I, for one, enjoy Paul’s longer clues – they are where he is often at his most inventive. For those who consider that ‘Du Tompes’ is not a thing, how about a bit of anglicised Proust: À la recherche Du Tompes perdu?
    I know, get your coat!
    Thanks to Paul and manehi

  34. Well, I liked BABY TOOTH, MINICAM, GOODNESS ME, ON THE GO, and the good anagram to give GERONTOLOGIST.

    Paul is such a good setter that it would be enjoyable to see a crossword of his without all the long entries.

    Thanks Paul and manehi.

  35. Not the kind of puzzle I like, I’m afraid. I’m thinking especially of “dogma”, “Du Tompes” and so on. Rather contrived, if you ask me. Thanks anyway, Paul and manehi.

  36. Chiming in to say it was indeed a lovely puzzle – I particularly liked the colloquial phrases. I too had 12,23,11 as SET THE CAT AMONG THE PIGEONS, which was my FOI from the definition and the enumeration, until I had to re-think it later to make it “PUT” etc in order to honour the little acorns, source of mighty-ness for 2d, A CORUNA. RHS was definitely easier for me than the LHS. 28,29,10 NEITHER FISH NOR FOWL, was a delightful way to finish. Like manehi, I started off on the BLIN(g) team for 16,27 PLUMB LINE, but I am now convinced by BLIN(k). Thanks to Paul and manehi.
    [grantinfreo@19 and Petert@31, I’ve definitely been stuck inside of MOBILE with the Memphis blues again since I solved 24a, but on the other hand, I was totally with CanberraGirl@27’s link as regards 19a SLOPPY JOE, which is what we always used for that sort of top as kids – so much more descriptive than a “tracksuit top”.]

  38. Not wishing to reiterate my customary gripe, can I just say – apophasis 🙂

    Nevertheless there was some fun to be had here for me. I liked BABY TOOTH and GOODNESS ME – a good surface here (Paul can be a bit slapdash about these things) and ‘dogma’ made me smile, but I agree with NNW @35 that ‘Du Tompes’ is simply meaningless.

    Nice to see the Galician dialect spelling of A CORUÑA (with or without the tilde) – the A is the definite article, so the name corresponds to La Coruña in Castilian Spanish.

    Thanks to S&B

  39. Thx to Paul for an enjoyable Friday puzzle. Some exquisite surfaces, along with a number of tricky surfaces and as we expect from Paul ++ misdirections.
    Lots of favourites today: LOITER, BABY-TOOTH, BEER BELLY, POMPEII, PLUMB LINE GERONTOLOGIST, and GOODNESS ME.
    Thx also to manehi for his blog.

  40. I had a good quick start with the long, multi-word ones (I know some dislike them but I find they help me get a foothold). They gave me lots of crossers and I was halfway through before I knew it. Then I waded through treacle for a while trying to tune into Paul’s wavelength. 12 and 13 both having more common alternatives for their first words set me back for a bit.

    In the end I had to reveal A CORUÑA and it was one of those that I wouldn’t have got on my own, so no self-kicking. Also new to me (but worked out through trial and error): GERONTOLOGIST and corporation meaning BEER BELLY.

  41. [The traditional English version of A Coruña was Corunna, as in the Battle of Corunna in the Peninsular War and Wolfe’s poem ‘The Burial of Sir John Moore after Corunna’. And the reverse occurs with the former English name of the city of Porto: Oporto, where the O is just the masculine form of the definite article in Portuguese]

  42. Regardless of my previous post @13, I don’t really mind Du Tompes not being a thing. But the clue would have been much more satisfying is it was.
    [Tim C@28 I wonder if I would still recognise L’Air du Temps as the same perfume I used to buy over 50 years ago.]

  43. I thought this was a great way to finish the week and that the clues were all fair. Could not parse some of my answers – many thanks Manehi. So many favourite clues most already named above. Loved the long ones plus POMPEII was just lovely. Now off to have yet another go at last Saturday’s Picaroon which has thus far mostly defeated me. Thanks Paul for another triumph. Have a great weekend everyone.

  44. I liked both the long ones, but SET/PUT are equally valid, so are YOUR/ONES (although there seems to be an unspoken Guardian house rule that ONES should always be used in these phrases, even when YOUR is the more usual form). I must admit that I always thought it was La Coruna, so I ended up revealing that one, along with its tilde.
    Other favourites BABY TOOTH, GERONTOLOGIST, ALABAMA (I don’t think I’ve seen lift and separate used quite like that before).

  45. Thank you, manehi, for parsing PLUMB LINE–I was fixated on PINE, for “long”–and thank you, Paul, for your usual art.

    My favorite was 12-23-11: one look, and I thought, “Crikey! Here’s Paul, yet again, mentioning something I’ve never heard of in my life, and it’s worth half the entire puzzle!” When, of course, not having heard of Du Tompes was the whole key! I only parsed it after the answer was all in.

  46. Thanks Crossbar@20… this is how we learn to use our phones. I too enjoyed the dogma device. Had no idea how to parse plumbline
    Thanks Paul and manehi

  47. 1a must be an American expression, and I’m here to tell you that I have never heard anyone say “Bang for one’s buck.” It’s “bang for the buck,” thank you very much.

    News to me that a sloppy joe is something to wear. To me it’s something to eat as NeilH@18 says.

    Thanks, Paul and manehi.

  48. Some great clues here, as usual, but I was held up for the longest time with 28,29,10 trying to think of a synonym phrase for “Hard to say”. The given answer means more like “hard to categorize” to me, but I suppose the humour in the rest of the clue compensates. I was also wrestling with a justification for COHERE since after spotting the gas CO I didn’t look any further – Paul was fine, I obviously wasn’t!

  49. Stimulating as is usual for a Pauline puzzle, but I do have a gripe. I use an IPad and the multi word answers, scattered as they were around the grid, made it tiresome to follow.
    I just got frustrated and pressed “reveal” whereupon I realised it was as brilliant as always.

  50. Dr. WhatsOn@48 28,29,10. I agree, but maybe the definition is “hard to say what”? manehi?

  51. Failed 2d – never heard of it. Was the word ‘might’ necessary, or even ‘source of mighty’? Would the clue have worked as simply ‘growth around university, a Spanish city’?

    I did not parse 12/23/11 – I was able to solve it from the crossers but had no idea what was going on here; 16/27; 8d.

    New: BANG FOR ONE’S BUCK.

    Thanks, both.

  53. Loved it.

    As to the ONES/YOUR thing, I can’t ever remember it being YOUR. I don’t even consider it these days. So whilst I can’t recall ever hearing the phrase “Bang For Ones Buck” I knew it would be that instead of “Bang For Your Buck”. I also can’t ever remember hearing “Bang For The Buck”, FWIW.

    Also, I thought the whole phrasing of the clue for Put The Cat Among The Pigeons seemed intentional so that it didn’t have to be “a thing”. If it was a thing, then Paul wasn’t responsible for the cat being among the pigeons. It would have already been there.

  54. 24a raised a smile because I not long ago clued ALABAMA as ‘Mobile home? (7)’, with which I was rather proud. I’m not rewriting it because Paul’s used the same device though!

  55. Huge thanks to Paul for delivering one of his best. Excellent surfaces and a lovely mix of challenge and fun. Spoilt for choice in terms of favourites but particularly liked 26, which surely has got be be one of the shortest definitions ever. [Anyone know of a single letter def?]

    Thanks to manehi for the blog, esp the parsing of 12/23/11 which eluded me.

  56. Candymandad54@55 There have certainly been just punctuation marks e g. : for colon a few times.

  57. Very rare for me to complete a Friday, and even rarer on the same day! The multi-worders make it easier or impossible, depending on whether or not you think like the setter, and luckily for me today I did. PUT THE CAT etc I didn’t even remotely parse, but it made me chuckle finding out how it did.

    When I saw BELCH and NEITHER FISH NOR FOWL that had me on the hunt for a Shakespearean theme, especially with ORLANDO, but it was a wild goose chase.

  58. Candymandad@55 I have seen O (8,6) B ( 6,6 ) P ( 10 ) and recently on here we discussed E ( 13 ) .

    Thanks for the blog, I will mention GERONTOLOGIST along with all the other favourites above.
    I did think the phrase was MORE BFOB ??

  59. I also was trying to use “pine” for “long,” so thanks for that, Manehi. And I’m another who thought a sloppy joe was something to eat, though not served on HALF a roll, as Chambers says.

  60. One earworm’s bad enough, but Mobile, Alabama set off two simultaneous ones for me. Chuck Berry’s Let it Rock and Bob Dylan’s Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again. Curiously enough, although I could be wrong (wore the single out long ago), in England Let it Rock might just have been released as the B-side of Chuck’s Memphis Tennessee…

  61. Candymandad54 @55,
    This one’s a more traditional clue with a single letter definition:
    I must have bits to eat (6)
    (Imogen, 28263)

    Great puzzle, Paul, very inventive. I loved STOUT, ALABAMA and BABY TOOTH. So the flower is actually a flower?? Whatever next!
    Cheers, M&P

  63. Didn’t know SLOPPY JOE was a top. Woodwork teacher used this expression in 70s but no wiser. Online Guardian rejected N in A CORUNA without diacritical wavy thing. Bit harsh I thought.
    Thanks both

  64. I agree in toto with MarkN @53. “I can’t ever remember it being YOUR” in crosswordland either. And regarding ‘Du Tompes’, “if it was a thing, then Paul [wouldn’t have been] responsible for the cat being among the pigeons” is exactly how I read the clue.

    And I have to confess astonishment at a crossword being described by NNW @35 as “contrived” – as a criticism! I hope the editor will now commission some organic ones instead. 🙂

    Thanks to Paul, manehi and other commenters.

  65. SimoninBxl@16 you don’t need a Spanish keyboard. Press and hold n and you’ll get the option for ñ.

  66. Only the Spanish N prevented the satisfaction of a clear run. Never occurred to me that acorn could be spelled that way. Thanks Paul and Manehi.

  68. candymandad@54 There was an (11,4) a few years ago where the definition was the ! at the end of the sentence.

  69. Never heard of BANG FOR ONE’S BUCK or that PIGEON = DUPE, so quite pleased to have completed the puzzle. Thanks Paul, as always, and manehi for explaining 12, 23, 11 and 2, both of which I failed to parse.

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