Guardian 28,774 – Brummie

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A jolly Friday puzzle from Brummie…

…with a theme of musicals, which was a big help to me in solving, especially the multi-light answers, with CHARITY leading me to SWEET, SOUTH to PACIFIC and MISS to SAIGON. There are also the parings of GUYS [and] DOLLS and SHOW BOAT. Overall a very impressive grid-fill, with ten musicals giving fifteen grid entries.

There’s an obvious typo in 13a (which may have been corrected by the time you read this), but it didn’t hold me up.

Thanks to Brummie for the puzzle.

 
Across
7 PACIFIC State capital initially provided with one cold large pond (7)
PA (Pennsylvania, state) + C[apital] + IF (provided) I C
8 PARADOX It seems odd, releasing end of rope from show bull (7)
PARADE less [rop]E + OX
9 WRIT Jester receiving king’s summons? (4)
R (king) in WIT
10 MOONLIGHT Low and trimmed-down portable night vision aid (9)
MOO (low) + ‘N’ (“and”, trimmed down) + LIGHT (portable)
12 SWEET Modern communication needs a new start? Humbug! (5)
TWEET with the first letter changed (to something unspecified)
13 THRENODY ‘Bretheren, Odysseus has a sad air‘ (8)
Hidden , breTHREN ODYsseus; or at least it would be without the spelling mistake “bretheren”
15 GUYS Ridicules anchoring devices (4)
Double definition
16 CAGEY Secretive, a bit like a 20th-century avant-garde composer? (5)
CAGEY could mean “like John Cage”
17 CELL Parcel lost at the centre unit (4)
Hidden (in fact at the exact centre) in parCEL Lost
18 CHILDREN In short, leader’s intervention in niche activity is the issue (8)
LDR in NICHE*. LDR can be an abbreviation of Leader in Sqn Ldr for Squadron Leader, but I can’t find any example of it used on its own
20 CHESS In which ‘essence’ is an intellectual pursuit (5)
Hidden in whiCH ESSence
21 SEPTUPLET A seventh part of labour production in month — increased by permit (9)
SEPT (month) + UP (increased) + LET (permit) – the “labour” here is giving birth to seven babies
22 MISS Leave out gender-specific term (4)
Double definition
24 FOLLIES Female introduces Hardy’s ‘foolish things‘ (7)
F + OLLIE’S (Oliver Hardy)
25 CHARITY Daily instruction tedious, yet starts producing good work (7)
CHAR (cleaner, daily) + first letters of Instruction Tedious Yet
Down
1 HAIR Shock when rocker perhaps goes topless (4)
CHAIR (e.g. a rocker) less its “top”
2 DISTRESS It’s working in shift that causes grief (8)
ITS* in DRESS (shift)
3 KISMET Lot of winter sports equipment (source not revealed) encountered (6)
SKIS less its “source” + MET; Kismet means “fate” or “lot”, and is also the title of a musical based the music of Borodin
4 EARL GREY Peer right inside large foreign hollowed-out entity (4,4)
R in LARGE* + E[ntit]Y
5 SAIGON Uttered expression of regret over dead so-called city once (6)
Homophones of “sigh” and “gone”; Saigon is now Ho Chi Minh City
6 BOAT Snake on top of tea packet? (4)
BOA + T[ea]
11 OCTAGONAL As a stop sign can go a lot out of shape (9)
(CAN GO A LOT)*
12 SOUTH Direction to shut off when temperature’s dropped (5)
Anagram of TO SHUT less one of the Ts
14 DOLLS Party’s full of large Liberal dummies! (5)
L L in DOS
16 CAROUSEL Girl holds handle, which goes around (8)
USE (handle) in CAROL
17 CREAMERY Cheesy place in which best rye is drunk? (8)
CREAM (the best) + RYE*
19 LAPELS Clothing features: elastic loop tops in legs (6)
E[lastic] L[oops] in LAPS (legs, parts of a race)
20 CATCHY Memorable piece of fielding at end of play (6)
CATCH (piece of fielding, in cricket) + [pla]Y
21 SHOW Performance of Silence that’s painful (4)
SH (silence!) + OW (that hurts!)
23 SITE It’s affected by Earth’s position (4)
ITS* (second use of an anagram of “it’s”) + E[arth]

84 comments on “Guardian 28,774 – Brummie”

  1. Didn’t see the theme until I’d finished, despite getting 14d early and thinking of the musical then. Which made 15a being my last entry doubly galling. Took me a while to twig ‘large pond’ as well. I agree with Andrew that the misspelling in the clue to 13 was obvious, though hopefully it’s been corrected by now. Thanks to Brummie and Andrew

  3. Some very CATCHY tunes in there, including perhaps ‘Memory, all alone in the MOONLIGHT…’ from CATs.

    Hugely enjoyable, loved Ollie’s FOLLIES. Thanks Brummie and Andrew.

  4. Didn’t spot the theme though it’s obvious in retrospect. Highly entertaining puzzle. Thanks Brummie and Andrew.

  5. Thanks Brummie and Andrew.
    I very much enjoyed this octagonal merry-go-round, caged within spiralling musicals.

    You could possibly add ‘La CAGE aux Folles’ to theme list.

  6. Saw the musicals post-solve, when the G-threaders said Theme. Acquaintance with the genre mostly by osmosis via our boys (JC Superstar, Joseph and his MCDC, etc). So, hadn’t heard of Chess, or Follies. Septuplet is a bit 8ac-ical… quite like the word itself, but the idea is a bit erk, as in fertility treatment gone wrong. Nice puzzle though, nothing too gnarly, ta Brum and Andrew.

  7. Well, Brummie, like Qaos, means theme; so when DOLLS and CHESS followed closely on the heels of FOI, THRENODY, I went looking for GUYS to confirm my hunch. GUYS crossed with SOUTH, so I went looking for PACIFIC; SOUTH in turn crossed with SWEET … and so on. Pleasant enough, but when a theme, twigged early, is this helpful, it does lead to a process of fast-track solving of thematic entries in which the business of serious unravelling is bypassed, even for single-light clues such as for KISMET and CAROUSEL. When this occurs, it always leaves me feeling slightly under-nourished. On the other hand, I do admire the ingenuity displayed in grid-filling such a heavily-themed puzzle.

  8. For once, the theme jumped out at me early on, but, on the other hand, I never even noticed the error in 13a.

  10. I thought there were some pedestrian clues here but that was because I missed the theme and now I see how nicely done this is. MOONLIGHT was a 1924 musical and like eb @2, I loved Ollie’s FOLLIES.

    Ta Brummie & Andrew

  11. GUYS and DOLLS did it for me – a rare sighting of a theme early in the solve. Like S’s c @7 I found this gave the broadest of hints for SAIGON, KISMET and CAROUSEL. Hence a potentially tricky grid, with a lot of unchecked initial letters, yielded surprisingly easily.

    ‘Bretheren’ (sic) was momentarily disconcerting, but the solution had to be what it was!

    I don’t feel particularly short changed though – it was fun while it lasted.

    Thanks to S&B

  12. Theme blind as usual. Pity, as it would have given me GUYS which I had to reveal.

    Felt use = handle a tad loose but other than that trivial gripelet, an excellent crossword.

    Many thanks both.

  13. Again I am reminded that sometimes I can’t see the wood for the trees! And here I was secretly relishing the fact that I seemed to be on Brummie’s wavelength today, when I entirely missed the theme. And it’s so obvious now. [I don’t look at the Guardian thread for fear of a spoiler, and while my mantra is that Qaos always has a theme, I didn’t realise that goes for Brummie as well, Spooner’s catflap@7] .Thanks to Andrew for the colourful grid and the clear explanations. I still had fun – and liked 16a CAGEY, 21a SEPTUPLET, 1d HAIR, 3d KISMET and 14d DOLLS most of all. Much appreciated, Brummie.

  14. No idea of the theme until I came here (I obviously need to add Brummie to the Qaos list). Spelling error in THRENODY was obvious but I waited for the crossers. I liked SAIGON and KISMET was the favourite.
    Even without the theme it went in pretty straightforwardly.An easy DA today as well and the Speccie is done. What am I going to do now?

  15. Excellent insertion of musicals is praiseworthy, of course. But, in terms of the “puzzle” part of this crossword puzzle, I have to concur with AlanC@10 that some clues were “pedestrian” and didn’t require much, if any, thought. Just my opinion, but didn’t find this as enjoyable as Brummie usually is. Mind you, that’s a high bar!

  16. Well, that’s two Brummie’s in a row I have found more difficult than expected. As one not familiar with the theme, whilst a few were known and others I recognise on reading the blog, I didn’t have the hunting experience claimed by others. FOLLIES rang a bell and helped me spot connections with the already entered SOUTH and PACIFIC plus GUYS and DOLLS. I had MISS at that point so the one solution prompted by the theme was SAIGON. I should’ve spotted HAIR and CHESS but took ’em both at face value, I’m afraid.

    Thanks Brummie and Andrew

  17. [Tim C@14: Nice Phi in the Indy today … and you could always head over to MyCrossword! 😀 ]

  18. Thanks for the blog, totally missed the theme until I saw your coloured grid.
    Perhaps OCTAGONAL is a triple answer, with “of shape” providing a second definition.
    The misprint is in the paper as well , fortunately a hidden clue.
    SEPTUPLETS was very neat.

  19. [Commiserations to those who failed to spot the theme – an august body of whom I am a regular member, though unusually not this time. My most egregious failure was with another Brummie puzzle (Guardian 24549) which contained SNOW, WHITE and the names of all seven dwarfs (according to Disney) 🙁 ]

  20. [PostMark @17. I should check the Indy which I’ve not got into yet, and of course, unless my wife suggests I should do something more useful, I should give My(Your)Crossword a go].
    Roz @18, I think the misprint is forgivable. It is The Grauniad after all.

  21. I liked PACIFIC. It took a while for the pond definition to come to mind, though it’s common enough for the Atlantic. [Could a San Francisco setter clue YEN as “currency across the pond” ?]

  22. Typo still not corrected in 13a, which initially stopped me putting in the correct answer, as it seemed clearly to be hidden in the clue, but it had to be a spelling error.
    Loved the theme!
    Thanks Brummie and Andrew, I needed help parsing a couple.

  23. First in was 1d followed by 7a so miraculously I saw the theme immediately and that really helped given the high proportion of themed answers.

    So a pleasantly rapid jaunt through this one. Even the typo (obvious) didn’t prevent progress.

    We must be due a toughie tomorrow.

    Thanks Brummie and Andrew

  24. That was fun, and possible to solve travelling. Unusually, I did spot the theme early enough to be helpful. Slow start with not much across, down clues more accessible, then slowly coming together.

    Thanks to Brummie and Andrew.

  25. [Tim C @20: honest Guv, that was not a plug for mine! That I put one up earlier is mere coincidence. There are plenty of very good ones up there over recent weeks; more than enough to keep you happy if you can avoid your better half for long enough. 😉 ]

  27. That took me a while but I did persevere with the parsing and got most.
    I worked out KISMET once I had a couple of crosses but had to look it up as I couldn’t see the definition. I was unaware that it meant fate although I did remember that it was a musical – but still didn’t spot the theme.

    Liked SAIGON

    Thanks Brummie and Andrew

  29. [ TimC@20 we actually get very few in the puzzles, the one today did not matter. Recently we had a stray full stop in a clue which I pondered over for a long time. If you are short of crosswords see if you can track down the legendary ” Knock Knock ” puzzle from Torquemada, that should keep you busy for a month ]

  30. THRENODY was my first – I took it that an over zealous sub-editor had “corrected” an obvious spelling mistake. I saw the theme relatively early, which did help to confirm that some of the slightly questionable wordplay must be correct when it gave a musical. Thanks, Brummie and Andrew.

  31. Took me ages to get CREAMERY, wondering why the word play didn’t indicate Cheshire in any way. And was therefore relieved when the “gender specific” term ( which I find a bit of a minefield these days) was simply MISS. Last one in today. Couldn’t quite parse MOONLIGHT though I quickly had the MOO in place for starters. Thanks Brummie for the challenge and Andrew for the clarity. Nice too to realise at once that there was quite obviously a typo at 13 ac, so no time wasted agonising about that one…

  32. Good fun though a deserved DNF. Spotted the theme OK, but still managed to miss GUYS (no excuse) and finally PARADOX which I just couldn’t see, entering “matador” instead, for no better reason than ‘bull’ appeared in the clue and I wondered about a “Carmen” connection. No further comment needed!

  34. Easy start, tough finish for me. Needed a little outside help to narrow down a few. DNF as had to reveal 13a, and while I’d love to blame the typo (which I spotted, and spent far too long thinking it was a deliberate clue about an extra vowel!) the truth is that THRENODY is a new word for me. I doubt I’ll forget it now.

    Theme emerged late on for me but helped me get SAIGON and CHESS before the end.

    Thanks both!

  35. [Understood PM @25. Cheers]
    [Roz @29, or I could try Cain’s Jawbone by him while I’m trying to find a simpler proof of Fermat’s last theorem than Andrew Wiles’. I’m still trying to get past the first chapter of “Quantum Computing Since Democritus” which my son lent me. I must try Mr Mathers/Torquemada at least once before I die]

  36. Always appreciate Brummie’s work and really enjoyed this. I shared Julie in Australia@13’s experience of thinking I was on Brummie’s wavelength with the clues flying in but then having to reveal a final 4 letter clue, and not recognising a theme that was right up my street. Thought I was clever and ended up looking stupid. I mean Guys and Dolls is my favourite musical. And I have revelled in recently re-reading the complete works of Damon Runyon (thoroughly recommended, by the way). Yet it was GUYS that defeated me. I was almost deflated enough to turn on the telly this morning , but that would have been a step too far.

  37. I wondered if SEPTUPLET CHILDREN was indirectly thematic, referring to “Seven Brides for Seven Brothers”

  38. * Error in clue for 13ac was still there (online) at 12.20pm GMT+1

    Failed to solve 15ac and 12d. Wrongly entered TWEET for 12ac.

    Liked CAGEY, HAIR.

    Did not parse
    18ac
    21ac apart from LET= permit
    19d

    I did not notice the theme which might have helped me!

    Thanks, both.

  39. First two in were SOUTH and GUYS, so I immediately looked for PACIFIC and DOLLS and was not disappointed! After that it all went very smoothly.

  40. lenmasterman@36. Despite knowing Brummie sets themed crosswords, this one didn’t occur to me until it was all over.
    The only reason I got GUYS in this sense was because it appeared recently in a cryptic. Chuffed to remember that.
    I did know all of the themesters once I saw them, so maybe my long term memory is still okay as well.

    As for the telly this morning,would that have been Bend it like Beckham, or Betty Blue Eyes? 🙂

  41. Spent some time wondering what other famous Hardys there are, other than Thomas and Tom. I’m sorry, Ollie!

  42. Thanks Andrew & Brummie. Lovely puzzle, nice theme, impressive grid fill. Spotted the theme very early and it certainly did help with a few!

    Mountain Smog @37 – same thought crossed my mind

  44. Lyssian@39 et al. I find it’s more pleasurable solving the crossword from wordplay than discovering a theme and looking for possibilities, or googling a list.
    I don’t mind themed crosswords, and quite like them, even if they’re something I know nothing about ( with a few exceptions) but I get a greater thrill at the end, a kind of afterglow, and more appreciation of the setter when I haven’t noticed the theme during the solve.

  45. Impressive grid-fill; I did get the theme but only after I had finished.

    I liked MOONLIGHT for the surface, FOLLIES for Hardy’s ‘foolish things’, DISTRESS for the shift/dress, and CREAMERY for the best rye. LDR is in Merriam-Webster as an abbreviation for leader.

    Thanks Brummie and Andrew.

  46. A really nice crossword. THRENODY (lovely word) was in fact my favourite, the typo being so obvious that it didn’t spoil it.

    A couple of years ago (I think) we had another musicals-themed puzzle, I don’t remember who the setter was. On that occasion a few commenters felt they had to let us know how much they hate musicals – none of that this time, thankfully. (I think possibly some males think that knowing anything about musicals would raise questions about their masculinity.)

    Many thanks Brummie and Andrew.

  47. I think that the quotation marks in 13 ac are meant to Indicate that BRETHEREN is pronounced BRETHREN -then the clue works

  48. Ronald@31 I tried “cheddary” for “cheesy” in 17d. I thought it might mean “cheddar-like”. (Maybe next would be “limburgery”.)

    Completely missed the theme and don’t know how much better I’d have done if I’d caught on to it. I’ve never heard of CHESS the musical.

    Thanks, Brummie and Andrew.

  50. Dropsy @47 – the pronunciation is as irrelevant as the meaning of the words. The only significance of ‘Brethren Odysseus’ in the clue is in the literal face value of the letters.

    I think TassieTim @30 has it right – “correction” by an over-zealous sub editor who needs feeding to the bears.

  53. Gosh of course , I never noticed the precise date. I just started in the middle of my 2020 diary..

  54. Lord Jim @46, I hate musicals, but I won’t tell you how much.

    Quite a nice puzzle, with no thought of a theme for me until I read the blog.

  55. Had managed to get five filled in and (having come to a bit of a halt), I paused to see if any theme was evident… only to see KISMET and CAROUSEL staring at me! Armed with the theme, the rest of it fell into place without too much trouble, but with many a chortle at the various witty clues along the way. Great stuff!

  56. Lord Jim @ 46 I doubt it was it as bad as the time when there was a football-themed puzzle, because the outrage that some folk expressed at a puzzle featuring the most popular sport in the world was just bizarre. I will keep my thoughts on Musicals to myself, but I didn’t spot the theme, and it didn’t spoil a thoroughly enjoyable crossword one jot.

  57. Thanks Andrew especially for the “n” of MOONLIGHT, just couldn’t see where it came from. Commiserations Rob T@34, I would never have got past the typo either had I not seen that very word for the first time in a crossword fairly recently. Mountain Smog@37 – great spots. Valentine@48, CHESS is by the cryptic core of ABBA plus Tim Rice, it contains the profound truth that “One night in Bangkok makes a hard man humble”. Anyway I was gearing up to complain about the theme but I said to myself “Sit down, don’t rock the boat”. Thanks Brummie!

  58. Thanks Brummie, that was fun. When I solved CAGEY I thought there might be a theme related to music; when I solved MOONLIGHT I looked for “sonata” but to no avail. HAIR and CAROUSEL made it clear that it was musicals and not music in general. I liked CHILDREN, CATCHY, and my absolute favourite was SITE. Thanks Andrew for filling in my parsing gaps. You can add PARADOX as partly theme-related as “Parade” is also a musical.

  59. Valentine@48, yes, with some of the crossers in place I had also considered Cheddary as well for “cheesy”…

  61. Nice puzzle; GUYS=ridicules (didn’t get this) and BOAT=packet (got this but couldn’t parse it) were both new to me.
    And of course, I missed the theme as usual 🙁

  62. MS @37: nicely done. I looked at a possible link between the 2 clues but I think you have nailed it.

  63. How could I miss the theme? Quite easily, actually!
    A couple short, which represents a success for me.
    Thanks both.

  64. There is an obscure musical called MOONLIGHT, that opened on Broadway in January 1924 and closed in July of that year, I don’t know if that qualifies?

  65. Lord Jim@46. What a strange comment! In case it’s of interest to anyone, I’m quite happy with my sexuality, but I still can’t understand why people like musicals. I wouldn’t say that I hate them – would total indifference do? This is just my way of saying that I missed the theme, of course.

    I did watch GUYS & DOLLS once, but I spent the whole time feeling sorry for Marlon Brando. This would be why I had LUGS at 15a. (Are guy ropes really devices? OK.)

    CHESHIRE at 17d was so obvious I didn’t even look at the parsing – so totally missed MISS. 🙂

    I mention these potentially embarrassing failures in the hope of raising a laugh, or possibly some sympathy. How am I doing?

    Peace and love to Brummie & Andrew, and to everyone who loves musicals.

  66. Lots of fun doing this. I enjoyed the theme and the clueing in general, although there did seem to be more hidden words than usual (including the Graun classic 13 🙂 ). Only FOLLIES and KISMET were unfamiliar to me.
    Slight disappointment, on looking back at the finished grid, that CAGEY wasn’t derived via Jimmy CAGNEY, who won an Oscar for Yankee Doodle Dandy (I wonder if Brummie rejected the idea as it might have been a spoiler?).
    Nice way to finish the week.
    Thanks, B & A.

  67. Hello Sheffield Hatter. Here’s a raised laugh and sympathy.

    Thanks ever so Brummie (this from a Wulfrunian by the by) and Andrew.

  68. Jim, hatter and Blady … hmm. Chez the child ginf, liking musicals was not so much immasculine as scandalously anti Schubert and Brahms. But some my sweetest memories are of Mum, when no-one was listening, singing pop, eg Rosemary (I love you, I’m always thinking of you), and You made me love you (I didn’t want to do it). Hey ho.

  69. [GinF @68. Thanks for “Rose Marie (I love you, I’m always thinking of you)” – someone in a pub I used to frequent 40 years ago used to sing that, and I’ve never heard it before or since. Very popular in 1924, apparently.]

  71. In case there’s still any doubt, 13 ac. definitely has a spelling error. I belatedly became aware of it yesterday morning and the Crossword Ed. has been trying to get it corrected since then without success. Looks like the Jubilee holiday break has temporarily shut things down.

  72. No worries Brummie. At the risk of sounding harsh, anyone who couldn’t solve 13ac due solely to the misspelling may want to consider a different pastime.

  73. sh @65: sorry if I’ve offended you. I was just struck (two years ago on the Puck puzzle) by the vehemence of the musicals-disliking comments (which in fact may have been more on the Guardian site than on 15²), and it seemed to me a bit strange that this particular theme should arouse such antagonism.

    But you are clearly entitled to dislike musicals without having your motives questioned, so apologies. Peace and love indeed.

  74. [Lord Jim: no need to apologise. I found it amusing rather than insulting! Sorry if I came across as not amused. 🙂 ]

  75. OCTAGONAL/CAGEY. I wondered if there was some significance in the two prominently placed intersecting clues.
    Haven’t found anything to do with octagons or similar on Wiki for John Cage, or musicals.
    But the fighting cage for Mixed Martial Arts is octagonal, which could mean that octagonal and cagey are synonyms?
    Long bow?

  77. Just did this quickly after seeing the comment about error in the Prize placeholder. Disappointed to miss the error and the theme of course.
    Nice one and thanks both.
    Ps I like musicals…Parsifal v good in Leeds this week.

  78. The error in the clue for THRENODY has now been fixed on the Guardian site with Special Instructions if anyone’s coming late to this after the big party in the UK.

  79. I missed the theme as usual, but enjoyed the crossword all the same. I’m still a relative newcomer trying to learn the tricks of the trade, so found this one pretty tough. SAIGON was my favourite. Can anyone enlighten me as to the purpose of the quotation marks for ‘essence’ in the CHESS clue?

  80. No idea Paul@79 about ”essence”. I think it’s just a distraction, but someone might enlighten us.

  81. Paul/pdm @79/80 – I agree with pdm that putting the quotation marks round “essence” is misdirection – specifically, I think it’s intended to make us think of the philosophical debates about what defines the true nature of a thing.

    For further enlightenment/confusion, here’s a link to part of the wiki entry on Essence:
    “Existentialism was coined by Jean-Paul Sartre’s endorsement of Martin Heidegger’s statement that for human beings “existence precedes essence.”

  82. Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table.
    Of course the true essence of a thing is quarks and leptons.

  84. Gazzh@57 (in case you read this) I don’t understand your ABBA comment at all. What am I missing?

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