Guardian Cryptic 28,777 by Tramp

87 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 28,777 by Tramp”

1. Thanks manehi, did not know about Neil Shepherd and his pseudonyms so a nice tribute indeed. Not really a Wagner fan but spotted the theme with the two Ninas SHEPHERD and KLINGSOR respectively referring to the Shepherd’s song from Tristan & Isolde and the magician in his opera Parsifal. There’s also JERUSALEM from the same opera and RHINE plus other references maybe which I don’t know. Superb feat with too many ticks to mention.

   Ta Tramp & manehi

2. Thanks Tramp and manehi
   I didn’t see where the “up” came from in 16d, so thanks for that. Favourites were RHINE and ETCH.
   Siegfried Jerusalem was a prominent Wagnerian tenor.

3. New: PARKY = cold; ETCH = chase.

   Thanks, both.

   * Saw the nina/words SHEPHERD KLINGSOR but did not know what they signify. Google told me that it was a puzzle setter Neil Shepherd aka Klingsor who died in April 2022.
   Nice tribute here:
   https://www.fifteensquared.net/2022/04/27/neil-shepherd-rip/

4. Lovely tribute and a fitting crossword. My favourites were JERUSALEM with three anagram indicators, yet no anagram and the equally misleading BUMBAG. Thanks manehi and Tramp.

5. Excellent puzzle, no idea about the tribute so many thanks manehi. I failed to get PESETAS but it all makes sense now. Agree with AlanC, too many ticks to mention. Thanks to Tramp for the fun.

6. Etching and chasing are quite different processes: one chemical and the other mechanical.

7. Fantastic crossword, with a very fitting tribute.

   Thanks Tramp and manehi.

8. I’d never heard of the deceased setter, so no chance of seeing the theme, but very fair and enjoyable. Not sure that all parks are commons. I liked the eau de cologne.

9. As usual, not on Tramp’s wavelength. I had to guess and reveal too many, and even then could not parse several of them. I do wish I could appreciate this setter as many clearly do, but I don’t think it is ever going to be the case. Am I alone in this?

   I didn’t know the themed setter, nor much about Wagner, so these were not on my radar, and they would not have helped me solve anyway.

   Thanks Tramp and manehi.

10. 2 homages/tributes in a row after yesterday’s 100th (101st?) Vulcan, and today’s Neil Shepherd which I didn’t know about or see in the grid.
    I did enjoy this one despite not knowing the embedments. I liked JERUSALEM (barmy British Israelite hymn that it is). PARKY was a favourite because I haven’t heard it for quite a while (not sure the locals would understand) and the fact that it was Parky today (only got to 15 degrees). Other favourites were RHINE for the Eau de Cologne, ICONS for the deceptive “do” and CHAIR.

11. What a nice tribute (though I missed the RIP NEIL in the middle). Since I rarely do non Guardian crosswords, I only know of Klingsor by name, but I’ve just come here via his site (thanks
    Tony Collman) which I will definitely be exploring.

    Failed to parse TEA CHESTS because I had the T of testicles at the front instead of the end, which threw everything out.

12. Failed to look for the ninas but a lovely tribute to the setter and warm wishes to his friends and family over their loss.

    Lovely misdirect at INTERVAL, was convinced I was looking for an anagram of ‘hiptravel’.

    Is chase really synonymous with etch? Always thought they were different processes.

    Many thanks, both.

13. Thanks manehi and Tramp. Superb puzzle, nicely challenging, and a lovely tribute. Loads of great clues, agree with AlanC, too many to pick a favourite, but RHINE was an especially satisfying PDM – nice trick, don’t think I’ve seen that before.

14. …forgot to say what a cracking surface at TEA CHESTS!

15. Nice to have another Klingsor / Alberich themed tribute after Bluebird’s similarly themed puzzle in the Indy last Thursday.

    Quite apart from the theme, I very much enjoyed this, particularly some of the longer and original defs such as the ‘eau de Cologne?’ at 17a and the ‘hippy place to put money?’ at 22d. PARKY for ‘cold’ was a new one for me.

    Thanks to Tramp and manehi

16. A very nice tribute. Clever misdirection with Tramp as an actual tramp rather than me or I. OPERATIVE, RHINE and JERUSALEM were all great. [and a mention for ESSEX ! Boy, that’s good.]

17. A tricky but great tribute – I got on much better once I’d spotted the Nina

    Thanks to Tramp and manehi

18. A super puzzle and lovely tribute from one Wagner-loving crossword setter Neil to another – both huge favourites of mine.

    Many thanks to both Tramp and manehi.

19. A thing of beauty. and thanks manehi for pointing out RIP NEIL
    Wonderful tribute from one Neil to another
    Chapeau!

20. Prompted by g-threaders saying ‘tribute’, saw the ninas and thought “Klingsor wasn’t a shepherd”, then googled and went D’oh. I’ve never done a Klingsor or Alberich, but he was clearly highly regarded. Another d’oh for the cute eau de Rhine, which needed a bit of trial and error. Stared at i_o_ for ages too before remembering the chestnutty do=con. Enjoyed, ta Tramp and manehi.
    [“Remember Alberich?” is a laugh-line in the humorous Ring Cycle plot synopsis, by an American comedienne decades ago]

21. Dave Ellison @ 11

    I too struggle with Tramp and once I come here to see solutions I have been unable to parse they seem obvious – but when doing the puzzle, like you, I seem not to be on his wavelength.

    There were some lovely clues though.

    So thanks Tramp and manehi

22. What a super tribute to Klingsor/Alberich, who helped me at the start of my setting attempts.

    Lots of good clues; I particularly liked TEA CHESTS for a naughty idea and BELLHOP for the surface.

    Many thanks to Tramp and to manehi.

23. [GinF
    I’ve got a recording of that somewhere. Her name escapes me at the moment, but it’s hilarious. I remember her saying at one point that every woman that Siegfried had met was his aunt!]

24. [Got it – Anna Russell. It’s here ]

25. Very hard. And I got Wearing as On and not In. Poor geographical knowledge on my part.
    Still, felt it was worth persevering to the (faulty) end.

26. Auriga @6 and William @12 I too would have thought Chase and Etch weren’t exactly synonymous, although Chambers 2014 has under etch… “…to eat away or corrode; to cut or carve.”
    WordPlodder @15… You may not have heard of Parky, but it’s etched (or is that chased) in my mind from my upbringing oop North. Parky goes with Nesh and Backendish (the sort of weather you get at the back end of the year in November in the UK).

27. [Ta muchly muffin, well found. And she was UK via Canada, and doesn’t sound the least bit US … so much for my memory!]

28. grant @20 – and any others not familiar with Alberich / Klingsor – Neil’s own website https://alberichcrosswords.com/ is a treasure chest of all things to do with crosswords (and – not sparing his blushes – there’s a puzzle from our own regular (@13 today) on the front page).

29. Simply superb! Every single clue was smooth with no clunky surfaces. It was a sheer delight to work my way through this.

    Impossible to choose favourites as they were all so good. My favourite puzzle in a very long time.

    Thanks Tramp and manehi

30. Arklark @29 I couldn’t have put it better myself. So I won’t even try 🙂

31. This might be a bit of a stretch but I took 17 as H in RE, giving RHINE. “Husband” is in “About”, which accounts for “In”.

32. Ta for that Eileen @28, lots of good stuff there as you say (even including how to listen from abroad to the cricket on the beeb 🙂 )

33. For quite a while I was thinking, surely 26ac couldn’t be Idols and not ICONS, and it took me ages to get SUER after that, LOI. In fact the SE section held me up and took about three times as long as the rest of the puzzle put together, with MIX-UP, DASHCAM and ESSEX not yielding for some considerable time. Like the misdirection of INTERVAL, but as usual didn’t see the wood for the trees, though I actually had no knowledge of who Neil Shepherd is/was. Not sure how widespread PARKY is as a term for being cold. Always until now thought that it was a typical East Anglian term only, people in Norwich seemed to use it quite a bit when I was a student there…

34. Lovely tribute and clever grid construction, thanks Tramp and manehi.

    Loved ‘the eau de cologne’ and the neat county lines in ESSEX.

    PARSifal almost makes an appearance in 13d. For Wagner, inspired by a now discredited etymology, the name meant ‘pure fool’ which is echoed in the clue here.
    Also, I like the conjunction of SOAP OPERA.

35. [Tim C @26, thanks for introducing me to two new words; never even remotely heard of either. Could only come from oop North!]

36. Thanks to Tramp for a fine puzzle with some elegantly crafted surfaces. So many favourites today but a special mention for PARKY, PARSE, RHINE, PESETAS, JERUSALEM, SARI and BELLHOP. Didn’t spot the Ninas until manehi pointed them out and what a fine tribute to Neil Shepherd.RIP.

37. Excellent puzzle, full of ingenious definitions, constructions and surfaces.

    As one who can rarely see the wood for the trees, themes generally pass me by and Ninas are no-hopers. This was no exception – and here was me thinking how much I prefer Tramp’s athematic crosswords… 🙁 A mark of a great one for me is that it can give so much pleasure without my even being aware of another layer of skill.

    Bravo Neil W and RIP Neil S (good blog manehi).

38. [muffin@24 & Ginf. Thanks for bringing the Anna Russell link to my attention. Brilliant! How did I never hear of that before?]

39. Ronald @33 Parky is definitely not restricted to East Anglia. See my (Lancashire Lad) comment @26. Chambers has it (meaning chilly) but doesn’t indicate it as dialect.

40. Sorry, TimC@39, must have missed your relevant comment @26. Hadn’t realised PARKY was so widespread…

41. Tim C and Ronald – I was surprised to see PARKY without a dialect indication in Chambers. Collins also has it as informal. Being a nesh Midlander myself, I use it quite a lot. I did wonder why Tramp had chosen it: maybe he thinks PARTY has been rather overworked recently. 😉

42. Even this soft Southerner (Middlesex) knows parky for the sort of weather that has you reaching for your coat.

43. Eileen@41 He probably thought PARTY was too much work.

44. Yes, William@12: big clatter of pennies dropping when I realised that HIP TRAVEL has 9 (count ’em, nine) letters and INTERVAL has 8.

45. I thought this was one of Tramp’s best – great puzzle, nice tribute.

    Slight error in the blog, for ETCH. “etc” does not mean “the rest”, it is short for “et cetera” which means “and the rest” (so the “and” is 2/3 of it and shouldn’t be ignored). However the clue says “with the rest”, which covers it nicely. Thanks.

46. Fine puzzle, too hard for me last night. Filled in about half this morning with judicious application of the check button.

    Thanks, Tramp and manehi.

47. Just arrived here after spending all morning (on and off) trying to parse IDOLS – I got I Do, and S, but just could not make out where the L came from! Which only serves as a repetition of the lesson ‘if you can’t parse it, you may have the wrong word’ Doh!
    Thank you manehi for putting me out of my misery.

    Great crossword, with a clever tribute that I totally missed!

48. Many thanks to grantinfreo and muffin for introducing me to Anna Russell!

49. No real problems with this, with the affectionate Nina present without relevance to the clues. Rather, it probably came back the other way, from 9 Across.

    I marked 22 Across for ‘get’ as an inclusion indicator. In the Downs, I had a worry as to taste (as I did in lesser amounts for 13 and 18) for the Covid reference, where that whole thing has caused so much pain. At 6 I wondered if ‘in front’ was right for a down entry, as with ‘at the back’ at 15. 16 I wasn’t sure about X meaning ‘wrong’. But relatively minor stuff, and I do realise the Grauniad is far less strict about all of the above than some other papers.

    Thanks to manehi and setter.

50. [Tim C @26: I see nesh has a very rich history, traced back via Old English hnesce all the way to proto-Indo-European and with cognates in Gothic, Greek, and Sanskrit. Meanwhile parky has only been recorded since the 19th century and its etymology is variously given as ‘unknown’, ‘perhaps from perky’ or ‘from park’.]

51. Thanks for the blog, manehi. Thanks for the nice comments.

    I struggled with this. I filled the grid with no idea how to clue most of the words. I just plugged away at it.

    I think I chose PARKY as it was unusual. I, also, don’t like “get” as a containment indicator: originally, I had “get hold of”, but, I’d used “hold” in another clue.

    The original clue for OPERATIVE relied on “critical” to be the definition. I decided to change it and shoehorn into the puzzle a Wagner reference, as a nod to Neil.

    I’m glad it seems to have been well received. Neil really was a great bloke. I miss his puzzles and our correspondence on each others’ efforts (and on Wagner). I feel privileged to have known him.

    If you haven’t done any Alberich/Klingsor puzzles, I suggest you check them out on the FT/Indy sites. He didn’t go in for gimmicks: he wrote faultless, elegant puzzles. Thanks for everything, Neil.

    Neil

52. Thanks Tramp for an excellent crossword and tribute to Neil Shepherd. I missed the nina because I didn’t look for it; I also missed it in Bluebird’s crossword for the same reason. I enjoyed this crossword with OPERATIVE, DASHCAM, JERUSALEM, and PARSE among my favourites. I missed PARKY and PISTES, both unknown to me. Thanks manehi for the blog.

53. Thanks Tramp and manehi. Super tribute crossword, worthy of Klingsor himself.

54. Lovely crossword – too many favourites to mention, but testicles are always welcome in a puzzle for me. I was unaware of the tribute, so my appreciation only increased when I came here.

    I grew up in Devon and I was definitely aware of Parky from a young age, so it is definitely widespread. It was actually my FOI, and a really pleasing one to get. Whilst the puzzle had some properly chewy bits, I think I am definitely on Tramp’s wavelength.

    Many thanks to both S & B. I’ve now got a few links to explore, thanks to the comments…

55. Great puzzle and tribute.

56. [Thanks for noticing, Petert @16 🙂 – although it does appear from the clue that my part of the world is awash with dodgy substances. Unlike a previous crossword, in which the juxtaposition of ESSEX and ADONIS made it clear who was being namechecked, I can’t be certain the setter was thinking of me on this occasion.]

    I had a strange experience with this one. Like some others here I often struggle with Tramp, but this morning everything flew in (much too fast to notice the ninas!) until I got to the final clue, 27d. And there I remained, stuck, until the penny finally dropped just now. I say ‘the penny dropped’, but actually it was a slow mental alphabet trawl, not helped by the fact that U was the 21st out of 26 letters to be tried out between the S and the E. If I were inclined to quibble, I’d say ‘sue’ is not the same as ‘charge’, but that might be sour grapes.

    Rather to my own astonishment, I find myself in agreement with the last plantagenet @49 about not liking ‘get’ as a containment indicator – but then I see Tramp doesn’t like it either!

    Like everyone else I thought eau de Cologne was terrific. Thanks Tramp and manehi.

57. ESSEX was late in for me as, for some reason, I often read “county” as “country”, and struggled to think of one ending in X!

58. [muffin – BENELUX doesn’t count, I suppose. I hear Turkey might be changing its official name to Türkiyex. Re ESSEX, I suppose I should be grateful it wasn’t clued as ‘accompaniment to rock’n’roll’.]

59. [eb @58
    That has the potential to be quite a good clue!]

60. Great crossword, great blog, great comments. But most thanks to muffin@24 for the link.

61. [I’m delighted that posters have enjoyed the link!]

62. Only got about half. Also put HARROWS instead of ESTATES which messed up that corner.
    Liked HERALDIC.
    Thanks both.

63. Another Harrovian here I’m afraid.
    Re Jerusalem being a British Israelite theme tune – I think Blake is asking the question “And did those feet? ” with the emphatic expectation of an answer in the negative. He was only too aware of the corruption of our poor country, as many of his poems show.

64. HARROWS is actually rather a good answer! I was going to point out that in Britain (not US), “state” schools and “public” schools are the antithesis of each other, but manehi’s parsing sidesteps that problem.

65. Me @64
    I avoided that trap, as I had PARSE first. However I think I would refer to an idiot as an ass rather than an arse, as the comparison is to a donkey rather than a backside.

66. Loved the link muffin.

67. A two pinter and great fun. Thanks

68. By cosmic coincidence, yesterday I decided to google what a Nina is in crossword-speak (I’m still a novice), having seen it mentioned in the Vulcan 100 blog, and I ended up reading an excellent explanation of it on… Neil Shepherd’s website!

    To find a puzzle today featuring Ninas celebrating Neil Shepherd was spooky but very satisfying.

69. I’m rarely on Tramp’s wavelength but today was an exception. I very enjoyable, steady solve for me.

    Thanks Michelle@3 for the link. From the tributes, Neil Shepherd sounds like he was one of the good guys.

    The first time I came across Alberich was a few months ago when Eileen mentioned him here. I printed off that puzzle and a few old ones. They are immaculately clued. Apart from being entertained, I learnt a lot from his website, where he blogged about everything from Ximenean clueing to using aids whilst solving.

    I shall have to content myself with working through Alberich/ Klingsor’s back catalogue.

    Thanks Tramp for the fitting tribute and excellent puzzle, and manehi for the blog.

70. I’ve been in correspondence with Neil Shepherd for some years now, and, like everyone else, greatly lament his passing – thanks to Tramp for this nice tribute – and Manehi for blog.

    Quite a challenging puzzle but I got there in the end, and I flatter myself I saw the ninas (well, two of them at least) even before finishing the puzzle. Usually I miss ninas. The Wagner references in 9a had set me wondering…

    I’m too tired to pick out a fave – they’re all good. DASHCAM was worth a laugh – I’ll be negotiating the M25 in a few days’ time, hopefully without having to race…. nor be nailed by a SPEEDCAM….

71. Yes, like some others I didn’t know 11a PARKY so didn’t quite finish. Even in Australia it is quite “parky’ this morning but I honestly don’t think if I said that to anyone on my morning walk here on the Sunshine Coast that they would get it, as it’s not a term used in Australia (except to refer to Michael Parkinson). I also couldn’t see 26a so put in IDOLS unparsed – so I was a DNF on two counts in that case. I still found it an enjoyable challenge so thank you to Tramp, and to manehi for the blog.
    Even though I didn’t see the Ninas I was impressed when I came here to learn of the kindness of Tramp in dedicating this puzzle to his friend and fellow cruciverbalist, Neil Shepherd. Thank you to Tramp and my sympathies.

72. What Art Lark @29 said
    Thanks both.

73. @9 Dave Ellison, no, I also generally find Tramp crosswords a bit of a grind, this one especially.

74. Muffin@61
    I’m another who enjoyed the link. Many years ago I taped it from the Third Programme together with her G&S spoof about rich New Yorkers with a patter song for Clodbelly Bunion, the rich tycoon, and a chorus that began
    “We’re in the social register
    All lower class types we shun
    And it’s very, very funny
    When you’ve lots and lots of money
    To be horrible to those with none”.
    Your link lead me to Anna Russell’s explanation of the Magic Flute, which I’m looking forward to.

75. Very late to the party on this one, only picked it up late yesterday evening and then finished it off this morning. Well worth the effort though. Managed to get to the end without needing the reveal button, albeit with a little “electronic help” here and there. Just one query – surprised that “public” is seen as a synonym for “state”? Haven’t come across that before, and can’t see how that works.

76. Look up “state” in the dictionary and you’ll see it can mean “public (adjective)”

77. Apart from schools , the STATE sector is also known as the PUBLIC sector , hospitals and local councils etc.

78. @9 Dave Ellison @73 maarvarq I’m another one who found this a grind and could not finish last night. Too many convoluted charades for my brain. But enough clues that I liked and lots of fans of Tramp on here, so the world happiness quotient has gone up a bit I think. Thanks Tramp and Manehi.

79. Thanks Tramp @76 and Roz @77, much appreciated.

    btw I’d never heard of the phrase “the state sector” before but, having checked, yes that does exist. Similarly, I find it hard to think of examples where replacing the adjective “public” with “state” produces a phrase I’d be familiar with – e.g. would we ever say a “state hospital” or “state transport”? Or maybe it only really works in the US where the word “state” often appears where the UK would use “national”.

80. We definitely say state sector workers or public sector workers usually after a derisory pay award from the government . The odd one out is schools, the state schools are very different to the public ( meaning private ) schools.

81. Yeah, agree with all of that… except I’ve never heard anyone describe them as “state sector” workers, only ever heard them as “public sector workers”. Throughout my working life, there was a clear distinction between people who worked in, or for, the public sector (vs private sector), or even the government sector… but have never heard “state sector” used until this exchange. Interesting…

82. Actually, having just googled it more precisely, I think have the answer. “State sector” is a phrase used almost exclusively in education, where the more normal phrase of “public sector” would be confusing because of “public schools”. I never worked in the education sector, and “state sector” is not a phrase I ever came across (until this exchange). Everywhere else, apart from education, free of the confusion caused by the term “public schools”, people refer to that sector as the “public sector”.

83. A Trampbag stuffed with tasty morsels. Wonderful

84. Postscript time. Yes a good one and very clever. Didn’t know the late setter and missed all the clues until I came hear. And I’m a Wagner fan who saw Parsifal last week.

    Thanks both

85. Another late comment, just to say thanks Tramp for (1) the nice tribute to Neil Shepherd in both your puzzle and your warm comment @51 and (2) for a beautifully constructed and enjoyable puzzle, independently of the tribute.

    I failed on 11a PARKY, a NHO/TILT – it’s a nicely descriptive word – so thanks manehi for the explanation.

    Also a belated thanks to muffin@24 etc. for causing me to get my old Anna Russell records out for a re-listen. Her humour hasn’t dated a bit.

86. A really enjoyable puzzle, although I didn’t parse all of it, and being new-ish to solving, didn’t know about Neil Shepherd. What a lovely tribute.

87. Also there was OPERA and GRAND in the corresponding solutions!

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